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Post by gr3ygh05t on May 10, 2017 12:51:31 GMT -5
I believe there is a damage nerf accompanying the tulu, pin and piñatas reload firing mechanic. If this is the case I would say no to the buff. I would rather have better burst damage than reload firing gimmick.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 10, 2017 12:55:50 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. Because, Tulu reload while firing will be sloooooow. And Orks do more damage. Less per rocket, but we are talking 32 of those rockets as compared to 8 on the Tulu. I am fairly confident that it won't come anywhere near to being able to replace the Orks. It just gives more flexibility to when you shoot your Tulus and Pins... allowing you to just shoot a small burst instead of all of them... or not waiting for a full reload. It does NOT make them into a non-stop burst of rockets. Yes it could conceivably kill a bot that is taking slow, constant hits that cannot get away or is fighting someone else and is ignoring them, but it won't make THAT big of a difference. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 10, 2017 12:56:52 GMT -5
I believe there is a damage nerf accompanying the tulu, pin and piñatas reload firing mechanic. If this is the case I would say no to the buff. I would rather have better burst damage than reload firing gimmick. On the TS they left Orks alone and nerfed everything else by 15%. It sounds like they switched tactics (thankfully) and buffed the Orks by 15% instead. |
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Post by amoebastudios on May 10, 2017 12:58:56 GMT -5
This. Is. Dumb.
I absolutely love my ork/pinata grif. In fact I have two of them and that should tell you how powerful they are for me. The orks are already deadly when used correctly, it does NOT need a buff!
Allowing rockets to continue firing is a terrible idea. Right now I have to make strategic decisions on when to wait and pop out the corner, knowing that I can't fire my pinatas again and the bot will eat me if I can't finish him. All splash users plan and wait for their shots. With this change everyone will just go around shooting rockets everywhere. It'll be a disaster.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 10, 2017 13:00:22 GMT -5
This. Is. Dumb. I absolutely love my ork/pinata grif. In fact I have two of them and that should tell you how powerful they are for me. The orks are already deadly when used correctly, it does NOT need a buff! Allowing rockets to continue firing is a terrible idea. Right now I have to make strategic decisions on when to wait and pop out the corner, knowing that I can't fire my pinatas again and the bot will eat me if I can't finish him. All splash users plan and wait for their shots. With this change everyone will just go around shooting rockets everywhere. It'll be a disaster. I thought this too... until playing them on the TS. Have you? |
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Post by amoebastudios on May 10, 2017 13:07:12 GMT -5
This. Is. Dumb. I absolutely love my ork/pinata grif. In fact I have two of them and that should tell you how powerful they are for me. The orks are already deadly when used correctly, it does NOT need a buff! Allowing rockets to continue firing is a terrible idea. Right now I have to make strategic decisions on when to wait and pop out the corner, knowing that I can't fire my pinatas again and the bot will eat me if I can't finish him. All splash users plan and wait for their shots. With this change everyone will just go around shooting rockets everywhere. It'll be a disaster. I thought this too... until playing them on the TS. Have you? I haven't. TS isn't always a good test ground imo... People are trying out the dash bots and don't play the same way as they do on real servers. Gonna go max all my orks now (have 6). |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 13:49:52 GMT -5
I thought this too... until playing them on the TS. Have you? I haven't. TS isn't always a good test ground imo... People are trying out the dash bots and don't play the same way as they do on real servers. Gonna go max all my orks now (have 6). Trying to use rockets in a sustained firefight will get one killed. If not by the target, then by the lack of salvo when running into one of his buddies. Reload and cover will still be important, because reload firing ANY rocket type vs any plasma would be like reload firing trebs vs a fresh DB. |
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Post by suntron on May 10, 2017 13:52:36 GMT -5
Considering all the Champion hangers have at at least 4 Orkans why did they think they were under powered?
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 10, 2017 13:53:41 GMT -5
If anyone is interested... here is a good sum of what this is really going to do... it was posted in response to the first thread about the announcement, (I wanted to post that one too, but can't find it. Found this one though, which references it in abstract but unfortunately does not link to it...) in which I was definitely very pessimistic about how this would affect things, very much in line with what is being said in this thread. But, I am not at all feeling the same as I did. The title of this thread is saying EXACTLY the same thing that I feel now... it also breaks it down by the numbers and may help allay any fears that this is some OP insanity. amoebastudios Regardless of how accurate you feel the TS is, if the mechanics are the same in the Last Stand as it was in the TS... it is not going to do anything but give you more options on when and how much you shoot. To get good damage and effect, you will still have to wait to have a good amount in your magazine loaded up before shooting. The Ork buff is the only thing that could cause any real changes... but they had to do that if they were going to keep Orkans an Au cost weapon. Nerfing the rest would make them unusable, IMO. They (Pinatas, Pins, Tulus) are fully balanced damage-wise, as-is... again, IMO. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/1117/op-more-versatile |
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Post by amoebastudios on May 10, 2017 14:08:53 GMT -5
Yes I agree with what you guys have said, that reloading in firefight is dangerous. I run DB grif a lot and there are lots of times after a full salvo the guy is left with 5% health. I typically hide to get more shots because my pinata is reloading. With this change, I will definitely not be backing away since the added pinata damage will have a good chance of finishing off. I'm trying to say there will be a lot more rambo'ing...
In regards to TS, the mechanics are the same but the hangars are different. You may be going up against hangar of prototype bots/prototype weapons instead of the tried and true gal/grif/lance hangars. That's why I say it's hard to guage real world performance.
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Post by Why? on May 10, 2017 14:24:46 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. more dmg per full load? |
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Post by Duodec on May 10, 2017 14:39:02 GMT -5
A few people have already said it. This isn't going to change much.
RDBs are still going to have to wait for jump to refresh before attacking. The slow reload times are only going to be helpful when you're finishing off a bot. The sustained dpm is going to be the same.
As far as players "Ramboing" they'll learn quickly not to. Try that right now in any Orkan bot and you quickly learn how ineffective that can be and how quickly plasma users love to take advantage of it.
The only thing that's going to really make a difference is the 15% damage buff on the Orkan. Personally I'm excited for it. In the fast paced environment of combat the Orkan needed some love.
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Post by jazzykat on May 10, 2017 14:44:34 GMT -5
A few people have already said it. This isn't going to change much. RDBs are still going to have to wait for jump to refresh before attacking. The slow reload times are only going to be helpful when you're finishing off a bot. The sustained dpm is going to be the same. As far as players "Ramboing" they'll learn quickly not to. Try that right now in any Orkan bot and you quickly learn how ineffective that can be and how quickly plasma users love to take advantage of it. The only thing that's going to really make a difference is the 15% damage buff on the Orkan. Personally I'm excited for it. In the fast paced environment of combat the Orkan needed some love. This, but mark my words Orkans will be real crowd pleasers...think of it this way they will be marginally less than 1.5 levels higher without anything else changing...RDBs should be just about a true death from above instead of just "crippling from above" even on healthy bots. |
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Post by Duodec on May 10, 2017 14:47:26 GMT -5
This, but mark my words Orkans will be real crowd pleasers...think of it this way they will be marginally less than 1.5 levels higher without anything else changing...RDBs should be just about a true death from above instead of just "crippling from above" even on healthy bots. I think you mean to say DB, not RDB. Agreed if so. |
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Post by jazzykat on May 10, 2017 14:50:30 GMT -5
This, but mark my words Orkans will be real crowd pleasers...think of it this way they will be marginally less than 1.5 levels higher without anything else changing...RDBs should be just about a true death from above instead of just "crippling from above" even on healthy bots. I think you mean to say DB, not RDB. Agreed if so. Yes, just the regular o'l DB. I just did the calculation 2 maxed Orkans will do 105k damage if all 64 rockets hit. |
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Post by infraviolet on May 10, 2017 15:08:52 GMT -5
The only beef I'd have with this is that the new Tulus will take some getting used to control-wise, since we'd have to hold the button down to get off a full salvo. With my RDB Griff I'm so used to just tapping the button once and letting the Roman candles empty themselves, then hiding behind cover while they're reloading.
Either way, this buff to splash weapons will make die-hard Camelot bot pilots uncomfortable I'm sure, especially the Orkans.
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Post by Duodec on May 10, 2017 15:12:43 GMT -5
The only beef I'd have with this is that the new Tulus will take some getting used to control-wise, since we'd have to hold the button down to get off a full salvo. With my RDB Griff I'm so used to just tapping the button once and letting the Roman candles empty themselves, then hiding behind cover while they're reloading. Either way, this buff to splash weapons will make die-hard Camelot bot pilots uncomfortable I'm sure, especially the Orkans. On the contrary, I'm thinking about running an Orkan Ancilot now. |
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Post by justsomeguy on May 10, 2017 15:54:15 GMT -5
For every buff there should be a nerf... You certainly meant this: There is almost never any reason for a nerf to be followed by a buff (and vice versa). It certainly depends on why they are doing it. It it's to correct an imbalance, there is absolutely no reason for negating the one with the other. If the game is balanced, there is no reason to do either. Only if they feel it's time to change things up, they might maybe (just maybe) do both. You know, this forum and the constant talk about those things are beginning to get to me. I've just watched Indiana Jones and here are my thoughts...  And don't get me even started on ballistic missiles.... |
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Post by Thunderkiss on May 10, 2017 15:56:36 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. Because the new tulumbas won't hold a candle to orkans still. The new firing mechanic for pins isn't all THAT great. +%15 orkan damage is. |
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SprintingGoat
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Post by SprintingGoat on May 10, 2017 16:39:31 GMT -5
I don't know why you think that... if you really look at it... the Britbots... the ones you want nerfed so badly according to previos posts, will be getting an indirect nerf if this hits. So, another nerf on top of that.. by your logic, would mean we need another buff... and then we'd need another nerf... and another buff... DEAR GOD when would it end?!? An indirect nerf caused by a buff is not the same thing as a nerf. ummmm... except it is... assuming we're using battlefield balance as the frame of reference. |
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Post by vin5240 on May 10, 2017 17:17:25 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. Tulumbas do less damage but has more range. Orkans has less range and does more than twice the amount of damage a tulumbas can do. Here at the stats: Level 12 Tulumbas : Cycle Damage - 20,488 Level 12 Orkan : Cycle Damage - 45,664 A DB Griffen can kill a lancelot/rhino in a single round of fire, while it would take an RDB Griffen 2-3 rounds. |
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Post by War Child on May 10, 2017 19:01:40 GMT -5
I felt the need to be that guy so here? it is... Since an Orkan reloads while firing you get 37 rockets per Orkan salvo and not 32. How I came to this conclusion; A fully loaded Orkan has 32 rockets that it unloads at a rate of 1 rocket every 0.10 seconds and reloads 1 rocket every 0.72 seconds, meaning for every 7.2 rockets you unload you get 1 additional rocket. 32.0 - 7.2 + 1 = 25.8 25.8 - 7.2 + 1 = 19.6 19.6 - 7.2 + 1 = 13.4 13.4 - 7.2 + 1 = 7.2 7.2 - 7.2 + 1 = 1.0 To simplify the math you could look at it like this 3.2rockets/sec ÷ 0.62sec = 5.16 rockets. That gives you 5 additional rockets to the 32 you started with meaning an Orkan unloads 37 rockets over 3.7 seconds. I wish Dixonic would fix this in their literature. Now that I'm done being that guy... In it's current form a level 12 Orkan does 52,799 damage in one Salvo, 64,215 damage over 9.6 seconds and 74,204 damage over 14.4 seconds. Why the 9.6 & 14.4 seconds times you may ask? That's how long it takes a level 12 Taran to unload and fully cycle (unload + reload), which it does 71,104 damage over that time. Why is that revelant to this topic? As a weapon that costs gold the Orkan should be more powerful than a Taran or at least match it's distance. A single level 12 Zues does 148,910 damage/minute compared to its WSP counterpart, the Trident, that does 82,200 damage/minute at level 12. Making it 1.81 times as powerful while matching its distance. When comparing damage/second the Orkan in its current form is 1.92 times as powerful as the Taran but gives up 50m, in its new form it'll be 2.22 times as powerful which I feel will make up for the lack in distance. In conclusion, this buff is long overdue. It's about time the Orkan was with it's weight in gold. ^^This^^ I always knew that orks fired a few more rockets when unleashing hell.But never gave the time to be all mathematical.And because of my phones bad sensitivity even though I cranked the sensitivity to max,it's still bad at aiming.So I approve this "rebalance"(not a buff in my end)so I don't have to waste a full salvo and miss my mark by 50m(even I have to aim carefully when aiming with tridents) |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 19:07:46 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. Awesome, so many ancilots, thundalots are gonna get theirs. |
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Post by blastronaut on May 10, 2017 19:33:22 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. Fine by me. You run Tulus, I'll run Orks and we will see who gets top damage. |
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Post by SuperHero on May 10, 2017 19:45:49 GMT -5
Tulumbus fires while reloading! As pins! and piniata And orkans have 15% more damage! Coming up in new update.. sorry I am not completely buying this just based off $$$. Why would anyone spend money(gold) on Orks when you can get a Tulu for just silver???. Take this and add another 200m and its a no brainer. That's where many maxedilots disagree with you. Most are relishing the Ork buff more than the Tulu. The ampunt of dmg orkans now give out will be quite devastating |
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Post by infraviolet on May 10, 2017 20:30:55 GMT -5
The only beef I'd have with this is that the new Tulus will take some getting used to control-wise, since we'd have to hold the button down to get off a full salvo. With my RDB Griff I'm so used to just tapping the button once and letting the Roman candles empty themselves, then hiding behind cover while they're reloading. Either way, this buff to splash weapons will make die-hard Camelot bot pilots uncomfortable I'm sure, especially the Orkans. On the contrary, I'm thinking about running an Orkan Ancilot now. Well yeah, an Ancile will obv soak up a few rockets first. But the smaller two of King Arthur's knights are a little different story. (Actually Galahad is Lancelot's son according to the legend) |
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Post by vin5240 on May 10, 2017 20:34:57 GMT -5
On the contrary, I'm thinking about running an Orkan Ancilot now. Well yeah, an Ancile will obv soak up a few rockets first. But the smaller two of King Arthur's knights are a little different story. (Actually Galahad is Lancelot's son according to the legend) Gareth can dodge orkans sometimes, but tulumbas and pins from close-mid....nope |
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Post by wannabetoughguy on May 10, 2017 20:46:44 GMT -5
RDB will make a comeback. I have six lancelots, but will only run 4.
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Post by Duodec on May 10, 2017 20:58:30 GMT -5
RDB will make a comeback. I have six lancelots, but will only run 4. With that name I'm hard pressed to believe you have six. |
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Post by tonysjaeger on May 10, 2017 21:13:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry but can someone pls explain to me what means by "fires while reloading"? does it like the function of Orkan?
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