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Post by >bobby_digital< on May 11, 2017 13:48:56 GMT -5
Now I don't feel so bad 'winning' a half dozen Tulus on the same amount of spins of the 100 credit chest.
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Post by 0ppressor on May 11, 2017 20:31:20 GMT -5
I felt the need to be that guy so here? it is... Since an Orkan reloads while firing you get 37 rockets per Orkan salvo and not 32. How I came to this conclusion; A fully loaded Orkan has 32 rockets that it unloads at a rate of 1 rocket every 0.10 seconds and reloads 1 rocket every 0.72 seconds, meaning for every 7.2 rockets you unload you get 1 additional rocket. 32.0 - 7.2 + 1 = 25.8 25.8 - 7.2 + 1 = 19.6 19.6 - 7.2 + 1 = 13.4 13.4 - 7.2 + 1 = 7.2 7.2 - 7.2 + 1 = 1.0 To simplify the math you could look at it like this 3.2rockets/sec ÷ 0.62sec = 5.16 rockets. That gives you 5 additional rockets to the 32 you started with meaning an Orkan unloads 37 rockets over 3.7 seconds. I wish Dixonic would fix this in their literature. Now that I'm done being that guy... In it's current form a level 12 Orkan does 52,799 damage in one Salvo, 64,215 damage over 9.6 seconds and 74,204 damage over 14.4 seconds. Why the 9.6 & 14.4 seconds times you may ask? That's how long it takes a level 12 Taran to unload and fully cycle (unload + reload), which it does 71,104 damage over that time. Why is that revelant to this topic? As a weapon that costs gold the Orkan should be more powerful than a Taran or at least match it's distance. A single level 12 Zues does 148,910 damage/minute compared to its WSP counterpart, the Trident, that does 82,200 damage/minute at level 12. Making it 1.81 times as powerful while matching its distance. When comparing damage/second the Orkan in its current form is 1.92 times as powerful as the Taran but gives up 50m, in its new form it'll be 2.22 times as powerful which I feel will make up for the lack in distance. In conclusion, this buff is long overdue. It's about time the Orkan was with it's weight in gold. Thank you for this.
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Post by arakos on May 12, 2017 6:18:29 GMT -5
I felt the need to be that guy so here? it is... Since an Orkan reloads while firing you get 37 rockets per Orkan salvo and not 32. How I came to this conclusion; A fully loaded Orkan has 32 rockets that it unloads at a rate of 1 rocket every 0.10 seconds and reloads 1 rocket every 0.72 seconds, meaning for every 7.2 rockets you unload you get 1 additional rocket. 32.0 - 7.2 + 1 = 25.8 25.8 - 7.2 + 1 = 19.6 19.6 - 7.2 + 1 = 13.4 13.4 - 7.2 + 1 = 7.2 7.2 - 7.2 + 1 = 1.0 To simplify the math you could look at it like this 3.2rockets/sec ÷ 0.62sec = 5.16 rockets. That gives you 5 additional rockets to the 32 you started with meaning an Orkan unloads 37 rockets over 3.7 seconds. I wish Dixonic would fix this in their literature. Now that I'm done being that guy... In it's current form a level 12 Orkan does 52,799 damage in one Salvo, 64,215 damage over 9.6 seconds and 74,204 damage over 14.4 seconds. Why the 9.6 & 14.4 seconds times you may ask? That's how long it takes a level 12 Taran to unload and fully cycle (unload + reload), which it does 71,104 damage over that time. Why is that revelant to this topic? As a weapon that costs gold the Orkan should be more powerful than a Taran or at least match it's distance. A single level 12 Zues does 148,910 damage/minute compared to its WSP counterpart, the Trident, that does 82,200 damage/minute at level 12. Making it 1.81 times as powerful while matching its distance. When comparing damage/second the Orkan in its current form is 1.92 times as powerful as the Taran but gives up 50m, in its new form it'll be 2.22 times as powerful which I feel will make up for the lack in distance. In conclusion, this buff is long overdue. It's about time the Orkan was with it's weight in gold. Thank you for the figures, it's a good work, but I do not agree. Splash damage should be considered as superior than energy damage. It's OK than zeuses deal more than tridents, because tridents do splash damage, but I think if orkans (splash) deal that much more damage than tarans (energy), that will hurt game balance. My daughter was already switching his tarans for orkans (in her lancelots) because she reached the conclusion that they were superior. With an orkans buff, she thinks most TT players will do just that. Arakos
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Post by 0ppressor on May 12, 2017 6:26:08 GMT -5
I felt the need to be that guy so here? it is... Since an Orkan reloads while firing you get 37 rockets per Orkan salvo and not 32. How I came to this conclusion; A fully loaded Orkan has 32 rockets that it unloads at a rate of 1 rocket every 0.10 seconds and reloads 1 rocket every 0.72 seconds, meaning for every 7.2 rockets you unload you get 1 additional rocket. 32.0 - 7.2 + 1 = 25.8 25.8 - 7.2 + 1 = 19.6 19.6 - 7.2 + 1 = 13.4 13.4 - 7.2 + 1 = 7.2 7.2 - 7.2 + 1 = 1.0 To simplify the math you could look at it like this 3.2rockets/sec ÷ 0.62sec = 5.16 rockets. That gives you 5 additional rockets to the 32 you started with meaning an Orkan unloads 37 rockets over 3.7 seconds. I wish Dixonic would fix this in their literature. Now that I'm done being that guy... In it's current form a level 12 Orkan does 52,799 damage in one Salvo, 64,215 damage over 9.6 seconds and 74,204 damage over 14.4 seconds. Why the 9.6 & 14.4 seconds times you may ask? That's how long it takes a level 12 Taran to unload and fully cycle (unload + reload), which it does 71,104 damage over that time. Why is that revelant to this topic? As a weapon that costs gold the Orkan should be more powerful than a Taran or at least match it's distance. A single level 12 Zues does 148,910 damage/minute compared to its WSP counterpart, the Trident, that does 82,200 damage/minute at level 12. Making it 1.81 times as powerful while matching its distance. When comparing damage/second the Orkan in its current form is 1.92 times as powerful as the Taran but gives up 50m, in its new form it'll be 2.22 times as powerful which I feel will make up for the lack in distance. In conclusion, this buff is long overdue. It's about time the Orkan was with it's weight in gold. Thank you for the figures, it's a good work, but I do not agree. Splash damage should be considered as superior than energy damage. It's OK than zeuses deal more than tridents, because tridents do splash damage, but I think if orkans (splash) deal that much more damage than tarans (energy), that will hurt game balance. My daughter was already switching his tarans for orkans (in her lancelots) because she reached the conclusion that they were superior. With an orkans buff, she thinks most TT players will do just that. Arakos Disagree. Energy damage always does damage (even against a physical shield). Splash/non energy damage is completely negated by ancile shielding.
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Post by SATmaster728 on May 12, 2017 6:35:32 GMT -5
Thank you for the figures, it's a good work, but I do not agree. Splash damage should be considered as superior than energy damage. It's OK than zeuses deal more than tridents, because tridents do splash damage, but I think if orkans (splash) deal that much more damage than tarans (energy), that will hurt game balance. My daughter was already switching his tarans for orkans (in her lancelots) because she reached the conclusion that they were superior. With an orkans buff, she thinks most TT players will do just that. Arakos Disagree. Energy damage always does damage (even against a physical shield). Splash/non energy damage is completely negated by ancile shielding. the main difference is the ancil needs to regen, and a constant barrage of orkans cannot be stopped, even by a leveled ancil.
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Post by arakos on May 12, 2017 6:42:22 GMT -5
Thank you for the figures, it's a good work, but I do not agree. Splash damage should be considered as superior than energy damage. It's OK than zeuses deal more than tridents, because tridents do splash damage, but I think if orkans (splash) deal that much more damage than tarans (energy), that will hurt game balance. My daughter was already switching his tarans for orkans (in her lancelots) because she reached the conclusion that they were superior. With an orkans buff, she thinks most TT players will do just that. Arakos Disagree. Energy damage always does damage (even against a physical shield). Splash/non energy damage is completely negated by ancile shielding. Thank you! Daddy told me I could leave my studies for a moment to answer myself! Disagree :b Ancile shielding is much easier to deplete than physical shields. Also, you can get inside the "bubble" and ignore it. In my humble opinion, orkans are NOW superior to tarans. BTW, I think tridents might be a bit better than zeuses, or at least similar in power than zeuses. But following your arguments, they should be considered much worse than zeuses, as they deal less damage AND are splash weapons. That said, I use six orkans atm. Leveling up two more. Buff them anytime! Back to my studies... doh Irene, Arakos beloved daughter
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Post by 0ppressor on May 12, 2017 6:43:55 GMT -5
Disagree. Energy damage always does damage (even against a physical shield). Splash/non energy damage is completely negated by ancile shielding. the main difference is the ancil needs to regen, and a constant barrage of orkans cannot be stopped, even by a leveled ancil. Huh? Ancile negates damage other than energy, like Orkans, AND can regenerate. How much it can block at one time before regenerating is irrelevant. Physical shields still take damage from energy weapons and do NOT regenerate. Not seeing what you are.
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Post by SATmaster728 on May 12, 2017 6:47:40 GMT -5
the main difference is the ancil needs to regen, and a constant barrage of orkans cannot be stopped, even by a leveled ancil. Huh? Ancile negates damage other than energy, like Orkans, AND can regenerate. How much it can block at one time before regenerating is irrelevant. Physical shields still take damage from energy weapons and do NOT regenerate. Not seeing what you are. i mean that physical shields have high health and cannot regen, and the ancils have lower health and can regen. also, phyical shields can block stuff other than splash. it can block bullets as well.
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Post by 0ppressor on May 12, 2017 6:51:54 GMT -5
Disagree. Energy damage always does damage (even against a physical shield). Splash/non energy damage is completely negated by ancile shielding. Thank you! Daddy told me I could leave my studies for a moment to answer by myself! Disagree :b Ancile shielding is much easier to deplete than physical shields. Also, you can get inside the "bubble" and ignore it.In my humble opinion, orkans are NOW superior to tarans. BTW, I think tridents might be a bit better than zeuses, or at least similar in power than zeuses. But following your arguments, they should be considered much worse than zeuses, as they deal less damage AND are splash weapons. That said, I use six orkans right now. Buff them anytime! Back to my studies... doh Irene, Arakos beloved daughter Having an all encompassing omnidirectional energy shield requiring you to have better cover to not take damage to it though it has no permanent affect on your bot's health and performance AND it regenerates is a drawback now? You can flank a physical shield and ignore it as well as physical shields require facing them to be impacted by incoming damage.
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Post by 0ppressor on May 12, 2017 6:54:39 GMT -5
Huh? Ancile negates damage other than energy, like Orkans, AND can regenerate. How much it can block at one time before regenerating is irrelevant. Physical shields still take damage from energy weapons and do NOT regenerate. Not seeing what you are. i mean that physical shields have high health and cannot regen, and the ancils have lower health and can regen. also, phyical shields can block stuff other than splash. it can block bullets as well. Honestly not trying to be obtuse, but I am not understanding the point anymore.
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Post by SATmaster728 on May 12, 2017 8:06:29 GMT -5
i mean that physical shields have high health and cannot regen, and the ancils have lower health and can regen. also, phyical shields can block stuff other than splash. it can block bullets as well. Honestly not trying to be obtuse, but I am not understanding the point anymore. me either. the original idea is buffing the orkan to do more damage than the taran would be bad, you disagreed that splash should be counted as superior to plasma.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 12, 2017 9:43:42 GMT -5
I've been sounding like Spongebob since I got bot number 3 up to par... singing: "I'm Ready, I'm Ready, I'm Ready!" in my head
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Post by boanerges on May 12, 2017 10:09:22 GMT -5
Gotta agree that this isn't really needed,... As a person who uses a lot of rocket attacks,... I think their damage is fine. The 'shoots while reloading' buff is good,.. but they really don't need more damage. They take some skill to use, but that is what makes them fun! If you are going to up their direct damage,.. then maybe a reduction in their splash area?.... (which I'm not supporting - I use them because I'm not good at zooming in & out, I need the splash! =/ )
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Post by SATmaster728 on May 12, 2017 10:35:03 GMT -5
I've been sounding like Spongebob since I got bot number 3 up to par... singing: "I'm Ready, I'm Ready, I'm Ready!" in my head everytime i hear that i remember when i saw a ytp of him sayign im ready im read-gets run over by rock bottom bus
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 12, 2017 10:51:55 GMT -5
I've been sounding like Spongebob since I got bot number 3 up to par... singing: "I'm Ready, I'm Ready, I'm Ready!" in my head everytime i hear that i remember when i saw a ytp of him sayign im ready im read-gets run over by rock bottom bus LOL and with my luck... Dash bots will be released at the same time and they will be the bus for me.
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Post by Insane Demon on May 12, 2017 10:55:15 GMT -5
This is terrible news... because I don't use any of those weapons.
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Post by amoebastudios on May 12, 2017 13:34:16 GMT -5
The medium dash bot with 3xOrkans would be deadly. Dash out, unload, dash back.
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Post by wannabetoughguy on May 12, 2017 15:38:11 GMT -5
The medium dash bot with 3xOrkans would be deadly. Dash out, unload, dash back. Tulumbas will be the superior setup after the update. Someone sophisticated will use the range on you and get the better of the exchange.
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Post by jazzykat on May 13, 2017 21:39:22 GMT -5
Another anecdotal piece of evidence that the rocket buff is overdue is that I see an uptick in Galahads and Rhinos. I've been playing in Diamond 2 and 3. The plasmaHad has been my best bot in most games.
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Post by carnage on May 14, 2017 1:22:05 GMT -5
I see where they want to go, but disagree with their conclusion.
IMO, they buff missiles because they know britbots are at advantage and missiles could help against them. Problem, the balance between weapons is at threat now. How can you justify Piñata becoming better than Aphid when Piñata cost silver and Aphid cost gold ? Something is wrong here.
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Post by procrastinatron on May 14, 2017 1:27:18 GMT -5
I see where they want to go, but disagree with their conclusion. IMO, they buff missiles because they know britbots are at advantage and missiles could help against them. Problem, the balance between weapons is at threat now. How can you justify Piñata becoming better than Aphid when Piñata cost silver and Aphid cost gold ? Something is wrong here. Id say aphid would still be better as it doesnt require line of sight to fire, and it has 50m longer range which could help against plasma bots. Anyway gekko is a gold weapon but is worse than most silver weapon. Imo gold weapons doesnt necessarily represent power, it represents uniqueness.
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Post by War Child on May 14, 2017 2:14:58 GMT -5
I see where they want to go, but disagree with their conclusion. IMO, they buff missiles because they know britbots are at advantage and missiles could help against them. Problem, the balance between weapons is at threat now. How can you justify Piñata becoming better than Aphid when Piñata cost silver and Aphid cost gold ? Something is wrong here. You can backpedal away from pinatas Pinatas has a lower DPM than aphids Pinatas are LoS,aphids doesn't Although pinatas splash dmg can get through shields,aphids can still damage shield bots by hitting the top of their heads. Slowly firing you're rockets are basically suicide unless your opponent is in critical health. While you're ranting pinatas are getting better than aphids,the gekko is still there collecting dust in the shop.
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Post by snk on May 14, 2017 3:06:00 GMT -5
Piñata is better, which doesn't need to wait full 15 seconds to shoot. But it's damage still the same, so I don't think it is overpower. While Tulumbus and Pin is so much better than before, you can firing every 9-10 seconds now from Griffin. That a real challenge to Tridents.
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Post by nosinov on May 14, 2017 3:22:19 GMT -5
Piñata is better, which doesn't need to wait full 15 seconds to shoot. But it's damage still the same, so I don't think it is overpower. While Tulumbus and Pin is so much better than before, you can firing every 9-10 seconds now from Griffin. That a real challenge to Tridents. Yeah that's the point. I can now get a much better damage out of my RDB Griffin, since I can leave the cover every 10 sec to fire booth Pin and Tumbula. No more going out to fire the pins, and 4 seconds later the same with Tumbulas.....No more waiting for booth to finish. Damn I'm looking forward for this buff.
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Post by Shooty McRobot on May 14, 2017 15:03:06 GMT -5
Having tested the fire-while-reloading RDB setup, I didn't think it made that much of a difference. These rockets are already weak compared to Orkans and Pinatas and spitting them in singly and slowly doesn't just waste robots all of a sudden, because it's not like they just stand there and take it. When you fire them all at once, you can catch them sleeping or wing them on the run, often without them knowing it was coming. But if you pop them with one of these reload salvos, they're now aware of you and can start evasive action. If you ground them down to 2% with your full salvo, then sure, you can finish them off with the next reload fire, but usually it's not like that. Overall it seems better to save them up than do this constant slow weak fire thing that keeps them from building back up.
I was against this when it was going to come with a 15% nerf. I'm fine with it with no nerf, but will try to keep myself from actually using it. I think it causes you to spend a lot of time on not being as effective as you otherwise could. I think you can be doing other things better during your reload such as surveying the battlefield to see if there's a better target, check the beacons, see which of your teammates needs more help, etc. If you think your original target is still best, you can shoot him again. That's as opposed to staying fixed on him the whole time as he moves around, spitting in small damage.
As for the Orkan buff, I wonder how much difference it will make. I guess it's like a free level-up and then some. You're already in very bad shape if someone unloads them on you. I don't know that 15% more will make them so much more deadly that everybody's up in arms. It can make the difference on a big Leo or something, to get that last bit, so it's not nothing, but I don't think it's dramatic.
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Post by Ron Gaul on May 14, 2017 18:15:50 GMT -5
Bear in mind, the DPM of all weapons involved is not changing. It still takes just as long as it did before to reload a full salvo. I also tested these on the test server, and the only real advantage is that now you have a better chance of finishing off a crippled target. Basically, you're probably going to get more kills.
I do see this update generating more popularity for the Molot and Punisher variants. Molots to counter midrange rockets, and Punishers against short-range Rockets.
This will NOT croak the Galahad and Gareth. They can already outrun short-range rockets, and that won't change with this update. The only thing that will change regarding the shield parts is you'll see more of them equipped with plasma, so as to allow them to remain outside the range of enemy rockets.
Otherwise, relax. This won't ruin the game.
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Zarin Hammerfall
Destrier
Posts: 26
Karma: 5
Pilot name: Zarin Hammerfall
Platform: iOS
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Gl. Patton
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Post by Zarin Hammerfall on May 16, 2017 10:12:15 GMT -5
These buffs to these rockets will just make me suffer even more lag and screen shaking..
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Post by snk on May 16, 2017 12:03:11 GMT -5
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Post by snk on May 16, 2017 12:04:06 GMT -5
These buffs to these rockets will just make me suffer even more lag and screen shaking.. +1, sometime I can't even see my crossfire when my screen shake + the smoke. I rather the rocket make my device vibrate.
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Post by Vectivus on May 16, 2017 13:18:21 GMT -5
The only beef I'd have with this is that the new Tulus will take some getting used to control-wise, since we'd have to hold the button down to get off a full salvo. With my RDB Griff I'm so used to just tapping the button once and letting the Roman candles empty themselves, then hiding behind cover while they're reloading. Either way, this buff to splash weapons will make die-hard Camelot bot pilots uncomfortable I'm sure, especially the Orkans. We might see some longer-range set-ups on the Britbots at this rate. Could be interesting.
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