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Post by llama4president on Jun 2, 2017 16:46:14 GMT -5
All that proves is that 70.4% of the people who took the time to vote are sore losers. Very Mature.
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Post by Insane Demon on Jun 2, 2017 16:48:24 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree. Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll. Just an observation. All that proves is that 70.4% of the people who took the time to vote are sore losers. 100 people is a completely insignificant number in a game with millions of players. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those millions don't even know that there ever was a different MM system, and they just shut the hell up and enjoy the game. You're always speaking the...
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Post by make7upyours on Jun 2, 2017 16:50:51 GMT -5
WHen was the old gear based mm? I may be to new to have experienced it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 18:32:32 GMT -5
Millions of downloads. If there were millions of people playing this game, there wouldn't be MM mixups.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 2, 2017 19:26:55 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree. Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll. Just an observation. A poll mixed with iOS and Android players. It's possible for someone with a 2-bot hangar to be in the Gold league (iirc) on iOS. That is impossible on Android. [omitted] Actually the impossible is quite possible. I've seen two 2 slot hangers in the higher tiers. One diamond and one true blue champion. And I've seen them multiple times in the leavers league. Yeah, that match making algorithm is a real hoot. I love being matched against full hangers higher upgraded materials while I riding 2-4 grades lower. It happens more than a little bit as well.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 20:39:18 GMT -5
That's a two-edged sword you're swinging, friend. You are saying that's a small sample size, and so it's worthless. Yes, the sample is fairly small. But you're only looking at what it doesn't tell us, which is what every player thinks. Of course it doesn't cover everything; however it's a sample of SOMETHING. Which is more than a sample of nothing.
Again, you're looking only at what the poll DOESN'T cover, and saying that because it doesn't encompass all players, it counts for nothing. I'm looking at what it DOES cover. I can't begin to measure the tens of thousands of people who play War Robots. But I can measure this forum! Which I endeavored to do; I created this poll.
You base your argument that this MM is fine off YOUR experience. You say I'm wrong, that there aren't very many people who care. Very well; if you don't care what I think because this is such an insignificant poll, why did you bother joining the discussion??
Furthermore, small as the sample is, it suggests that there are more people who agree with me than agree with your viewpoint. It is some information, not all. Yet it is more than you have to back up your viewpoint.
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Post by trustmeimdoctor on Jun 2, 2017 21:17:36 GMT -5
The old matchmaking had flaws, but all the new one does is match me up against players with much higher level stuff. I can try to level my stuff but it takes forever. I would have to wait a year to get my stuff to 12. The slow leveling really makes this matchmaking suck so much worse.
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Post by llama4president on Jun 2, 2017 21:27:43 GMT -5
The old matchmaking had flaws, but all the new one does is match me up against players with much higher level stuff. I can try to level my stuff but it takes forever. I would have to wait a year to get my stuff to 12. The slow leveling really makes this matchmaking suck so much worse. It's an illusion that upgrading your weapons will solve the problem it will just bring you higher in the ladder, and you will face always higher lvl hangars. it will stop when you will reach 12/12.
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Post by trustmeimdoctor on Jun 2, 2017 21:31:21 GMT -5
The old matchmaking had flaws, but all the new one does is match me up against players with much higher level stuff. I can try to level my stuff but it takes forever. I would have to wait a year to get my stuff to 12. The slow leveling really makes this matchmaking suck so much worse. It's an illusion that upgrading your weapons will solve the problem it will just bring you higher in the ladder, and you will face always higher lvl hangars. it will stop when you will reach 12/12. I understand that. This is why I believe the leveling time is a major problem for this system. If I could have all level 12 stuff I would be cool, but that takes forever.
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Post by spawnreaper on Jun 2, 2017 23:09:30 GMT -5
It's an illusion that upgrading your weapons will solve the problem it will just bring you higher in the ladder, and you will face always higher lvl hangars. it will stop when you will reach 12/12. I understand that. This is why I believe the leveling time is a major problem for this system. If I could have all level 12 stuff I would be cool, but that takes forever. 12/12 Hanger really gets you only one thing, the most boring stagnant gameplay this game offers. Not really sure how that's a prize. With current mm only one thing could help give all botz a 20 percent speed increase. Oh and no surprise I voted old mm better.
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Post by trustmeimdoctor on Jun 3, 2017 0:07:26 GMT -5
I understand that. This is why I believe the leveling time is a major problem for this system. If I could have all level 12 stuff I would be cool, but that takes forever. 12/12 Hanger really gets you only one thing, the most boring stagnant gameplay this game offers. Not really sure how that's a prize. With current mm only one thing could help give all botz a 20 percent speed increase. Oh and no surprise I voted old mm better. Stagnant gameplay is what this game offers then. At least make it a level playing field. That would make the biggest difference to me.
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Post by zr on Jun 3, 2017 0:22:30 GMT -5
I don't mind MM Its the points system I hate, Its the -17 and -22 I don't get? Today I played 6 games, 5 games I won, With +3, +5, +10, +2, +5 Then I lose one game with 4 kills, 450k damage, 3 beacons. Reward -22 An hour of playing, f-ucking waste of time.
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Post by trustmeimdoctor on Jun 3, 2017 1:27:30 GMT -5
I don't mind MM Its the points system I hate, Its the -17 and -22 I don't get? Today I played 6 games, 5 games I won, With +3, +5, +10, +2, +5 Then I lose one game with 4 kills, 450k damage, 3 beacons. Reward -22 An hour of playing, f-ucking waste of time. Right? I won like 7 games straight and I barely moved. But then I lost 3 and it took away everything I earned. In one a guy sat at spawn with a Raijin and tried to obstruct me twice. In one of the other a guy never played at all. I've won 5 vs 6 but these opponents are much higher level now. What am I supposed to do? Leveling takes forever. This game is pissing me off.
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Post by ΜØØSE on Jun 3, 2017 3:02:10 GMT -5
Tired of your 「dookie」, Pixonic. This is what happens when you don't have the balls to punish abusers.
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Post by llama4president on Jun 3, 2017 3:39:56 GMT -5
Tired of your ?poo-poo?, Pixonic. This is what happens when you don't have the balls to punish abusers. That's just one of the problems of the MM, that leans the carrot to tanking behaviours.
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Post by hyderier on Jun 3, 2017 4:08:57 GMT -5
I don't mind MM Its the points system I hate, Its the -17 and -22 I don't get? Today I played 6 games, 5 games I won, With +3, +5, +10, +2, +5 Then I lose one game with 4 kills, 450k damage, 3 beacons. Reward -22 An hour of playing, f-ucking waste of time. Right? I won like 7 games straight and I barely moved. But then I lost 3 and it took away everything I earned. In one a guy sat at spawn with a Raijin and tried to obstruct me twice. In one of the other a guy never played at all. I've won 5 vs 6 but these opponents are much higher level now. What am I supposed to do? Leveling takes forever. This game is pissing me off. What you should do is ignore leagues and league points. Or, treat them as an indicator, not goal. Or, consider them the cost for better rewards when winning or getting a lot of damage silver. What ever you do, do not consider them a reward or a desirable thing. Your primary goal in this game is to become better pilot. Even a 12/12 hangar will not be satisfactory if you don't have the skill to match (because almost everybody with maxed hangar has the experience and skill to match). Your secondary goal is to maximize your gold and silver income, until you have maxed hangar (if ever). League points are not a goal.
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Post by zr on Jun 3, 2017 4:46:01 GMT -5
hyderier
Your right! League is not important! I,m going tank down 2 leagues gold should come easy? Don't need silver I have 370M, But I like to play at the best level I can, which is 20 points away from Gold 1 with a 9/9 hangar, I wanted the 100 gold but reward for going up 1 league. But that -17 and -22 is just keeping out, Dropping back silver
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Post by GreenFace on Jun 3, 2017 8:48:23 GMT -5
There would still be too much whining from people who want to use Recruit/Bronze/Silver league level bots with Gold+ league level weapons. They want to use levels 1-7 bots with level 8+ weapons in a 5-slot hangar against players haven't even earned enough gold to buy the 5th slot. That's why the hangar-based system (the way y'all want it to be) shouldn't be implemented. You have to also take slots into account, not just bot and weapon levels. Agree... Take whatever we can count. The key to my statement is GEARS. Weapons, bots, slots, anything... What is wrong from last MM is not the hangar based system, but because its lack of restrictions. It counted/restricted only bot level. From wherever we saw, there's something wrong with restrictions if level 1 bot and level 12 weapon being matched with level 1 bot and level 1 weapon.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 3, 2017 9:50:21 GMT -5
Hmm. To those who say, "keep playing, and don't worry about your win rate - it's unimportant..."
Do you realize what you're saying?
So, win rate isn't important. Really? Isn't the goal of any game to win?
Strategy games such as Clash of Clans, etc., those games require extensive time invested before you can become powerful. However that's because they make no bones about being designed that way; it's intentional. Half the fun in those games is building your kingdom!
Now, why are you comparing a tactical shooter game, which is what War Robots is, with strategy games??? You're holding War Robots to a different standard than any other shooter game.
Shooter games don't work like strategy games. Yes, War Robots has strategy involved as far as building your hangar for specific maps...but that takes a while to learn for most people, who don't come to forums like this one. Most people simply play the game.
In any other shooter game (COD, Battlefield, etc.), after the initial beatdown from the training period you expect to finally start to win a little. By the time you've moved up a couple levels from Rookie league, your advancement becomes exponentially faster because your skills are now much closer to everyone else's, and you just keep getting better. You should be around 55-60% win rate if you're half decent. By the time you reach the mid-upper levels, you're good enough that you should be winning even more.
War Robots, for some reason, is viewed by you as being different. You say "just keep playing until you're maxed...and then you'll win". Male. Bovine. Excrement. And lots of it. No other shooter game operates like that. The player base would cease to grow if they did. Why? Because people like instant gratification! How does a newer player languishing in Bronze tier know it's okay at the top? Because every tier he/she moves up, the same beatdown occurs as they're pushed toward a 50% win rate. So, they figure "I must suck at this game." And nothing they can do gets them ahead. They become frustrated, because no matter how good they get, there's no end in sight. Sure, they can look up at Legends league and see the players there, and wonder what it's like up there, and maybe they'll get there eventually...oh wait, the Legends' own win rates aren't great either. Hmm. Guess I'll never do better than 50% wins, if that. So why am I playing again? I want to win...this game doesn't have much winning involved. Know what? Forget it.
That's the type of thought process involved by most people.
You know what keeps players around? WINNING. There must be a challenge, but ultimately people play to win. Not to optimize their Au or Ag payouts; you guys who advocate that, you're in a minority. Most people aren't going to take the long view like that...in a SHOOTER game. If this were Clash of Clans, you'd have a point. But this is War Robots, so you unfortunately don't.
Yet, you may say that "if you don't like it, find another game."
That is exactly what will happen from the player base at large, as long as all players are pulled toward 50% wins.
And THAT is when this game will die. Not when players like myself and others here try to make noise Pixonic might hear and listen to. No, I don't expect much to happen from my own individual opinion. But there's enough people here that something might possibly happen if enough of them make the same noise.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 3, 2017 10:03:36 GMT -5
Ron Gaul The problem is getting most of those dissatisfied to actually write Pixonic to make their issues with the game known. Pixonic gets a few(I write them constantly from the in game tech support option) but not enough to get their attention. I get the impression that Pixonic may be deliberately tanking their game. As you stated a forced 50% win/loss ratio will drive most people off after a short period of time.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 3, 2017 10:36:44 GMT -5
@ HEATHEN CAT,
I think it's less calculated than that. I think it was an attempt to balance the game, and they didn't realize what would happen if everyone was dragged toward 50%. They tried to create something that would account for players' skill, which is something that doesn't work. Skill is something that can only be demonstrated, not measured. It can't be accounted for or balanced against. Except by handicaps. Which, I think they wanted to build a system that would provide more of a challenge to good players while giving the nearer and less-skilled player base a slightly easier time, by pairing them against similar opponents.
But again, the wild car was they didn't realize that, while their intentions were good, the MM is an algorithm. It doesn't consider, it accounts. And, the MM accounted for everything. If a player started to succeed, it pits him against tougher and tougher opponents until he starts to lose. Because the MM was programmed to achieve equality.
I think it's just a mistake.
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Post by oakwhelie on Jun 3, 2017 10:37:55 GMT -5
They could simply take weapon level to the algorithm for measuring hangar strength, instead they implemented an entirely new MM which is a much bigger investment and risk. If they bring the old mm with this simple fix it would be great.
Right now im sitting st gold 3 witha hangar full of lv 6 bot with weapon level ranging from 6 to 7 except a pair of treb on my 8/8/6/6 treb gekko natasha and 1 hydra. The other 3 are 7/7/7/7 RDB grif, 6/6/6/5 spiral hydra grif and 7/7/6/6 pinata orkan grif
Everyone else are lv 8-11 build with lancelot and ancilot thrown into the mix
Mind you this is android gold
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Post by hyderier on Jun 3, 2017 13:05:17 GMT -5
League system itself is good. There are just two problems:
Lesser problem is, MM seems to use other things than just league score in matchmaking. This is a mistake. Result is for example the win and loss streaks. Worse result is, it is hard to rise or drop in leagues, because MM seems to give too easy and too hard matchea. MM should pool the players, get 12 players from same pool when battle is starting, then randomly make two teams. It could try to balance the teams a bit, like pick 100 random teams and pick the most balanced one by considering for example just total HP, but that's optional, because random is fair and more varied.
Greater problem is, there is no benefit in rising in leagues, but instead effective penalty (harder to get gold). Fixing this alone would fix almost everything. Being in higher league should net more gold, always. For example, big enough league based Au or Ag bonus for 3 first wins of the day. Or, same Au for all on winning team, 1...7 Au for different leagues (people would still want max damage to rise in leagues to get the bigger rewards). Or some other system making it pointless to seek easy matches. No need for stick for tanking, if there's real carrot for rising.
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Post by SATmaster728 on Jun 3, 2017 22:55:19 GMT -5
League system itself is good. There are just two problems: Lesser problem is, MM seems to use other things than just league score in matchmaking. This is a mistake. Result is for example the win and loss streaks. Worse result is, it is hard to rise or drop in leagues, because MM seems to give too easy and too hard matchea. MM should pool the players, get 12 players from same pool when battle is starting, then randomly make two teams. It could try to balance the teams a bit, like pick 100 random teams and pick the most balanced one by considering for example just total HP, but that's optional, because random is fair and more varied. Greater problem is, there is no benefit in rising in leagues, but instead effective penalty (harder to get gold). Fixing this alone would fix almost everything. Being in higher league should net more gold, always. For example, big enough league based Au or Ag bonus for 3 first wins of the day. Or, same Au for all on winning team, 1...7 Au for different leagues (people would still want max damage to rise in leagues to get the bigger rewards). Or some other system making it pointless to seek easy matches. No need for stick for tanking, if there's real carrot for rising. The issue is the bigger carrot for tankers. Make rewards better higher up better, as 70 gold or even 300ish gold for a month is not worth it compared to tanking. Make a bigger carrot for higher leagues, and most people will want to try again
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Post by imnobody on Jun 3, 2017 23:41:28 GMT -5
The MM is Russian roulette you better hope you're on the better team.
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Post by lilryry on Jun 4, 2017 15:43:21 GMT -5
My question is what problems did the new mm solve? We still have clubbing plus now tanking is an issue...so basically the plan did nothing to solve any issues and created new ones that are far more detrimental to the game and impact everyone playing...
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