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Post by GreenFace on Jun 1, 2017 7:37:18 GMT -5
Here is the situation... Win rate 40% >> win win till 60% Win rate 60% >> lose lose till 40% This is happening to me atleast Try to change bots/weapons with whatever level... You'll still be in that range, as far as I've experienced also.
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Post by T34 on Jun 1, 2017 7:45:03 GMT -5
Here is the situation... Win rate 40% >> win win till 60% Win rate 60% >> lose lose till 40% This is happening to me atleast Yep. And you can stretch the wins with capping beacons only without causing damage. Got to 74%. But the beat down by the MM is so savage after that that a few times I had to put the game down. It wears enthusiasm down and the will to pick up the game.
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Post by T34 on Jun 1, 2017 7:47:46 GMT -5
Here is the situation... Win rate 40% >> win win till 60% Win rate 60% >> lose lose till 40% This is happening to me atleast Try to change bots/weapons with whatever level... You'll still be in that range, as far as I've experienced also. Same experience for me too
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Post by Pilot Moby_dic on Jun 1, 2017 8:56:11 GMT -5
Already done that and got the T-Shirt. I just joined Wiki clan - here are my last three squad games against Expert/Champions league with a 9/9 hanger :-) I'm glad squadding is working out for you, I have also had these sort of results in Expert when the right players are online. However, an adequate MM should also cater for those who play solo. You actually evidenced my point, since I'm saying that an Expert League players shouldn't even be matched with players in Champion who are 2000 or more rating points above, especially when playing solo. Sure, sometimes it'll work out for you, but the majority of the time your contribution to the match will be trivial and you will consistently miss out on the necessary Au rewards you need to upgrade your hangar. If players have such a hard on for themselves that they want to consistently play Champions and Legends, go ahead, I'm sure the new Custom matches will cater to your needs just fine. In the meantime, I ask people not to trivialise the legitimate struggles of the original poster who has already evidenced that he is an honest and reasonable level player. Otherwise you come across as just another meathead who cannot relate to another person's experience simply because it isn't the same as your own. Please don't forget we all started in the same place. I didn't magic myself to 9/9, it's been a long hard graft the whole way. People really do just have to get on with the game (or do something else) as the MM isn't going to change and emailing Pix about it is a waste of time.
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Post by GreenFace on Jun 1, 2017 10:18:05 GMT -5
Try to change bots/weapons with whatever level... You'll still be in that range, as far as I've experienced also. Same experience for me too Yeah... And try to play with Zenith/Noricum combo also... I don't know how, but somehow the game will find you some good teammates (or some idiot Reds), so you will still have about half easy wins.
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Post by DarkVagabond on Jun 1, 2017 15:01:29 GMT -5
For ?firetruck?s sake, give it a rest already peeps! I am so tired of reading this stupid bull?poo-poo? on the forum. Ohhh the matchmaker sucks...ohhh wahhhhhh....I'm going to come here and complain and get sympathy for my trouble. Seriously get over it!! You have one of two choices as noted below: Option 1: Play the game as Pix has made it and deal with it and provide constructive feedback to them. By this, I mean e-mailing them directly to help resolve current problems that YOU have found in the game. (On a more serious note, how many of you have actually done that? My guess? Not many.) Option 2: If you find the game so impossible to enjoy, then leave. It's as simple as that. Don't sit here and ?female dog? and complain about a game you hardly play or force yourself to play. Take a break or leave as I'm sure it's in your best interest and perhaps you might come back later with a different perspective. Back on topic. My solo experience has had its ups and downs over the last couple weeks but overall has been very fair with a ton of well played matches. I don't see a problem with the current matchmaker besides the crazy win/lose rate swings that others have reported. I personally have gone through this to a point but not enough to affect me much. A wise man once said SHUT UP AND PLAY! and I believe that was +DethHilt+ Ron Gaul I believe your poll to be flawed, as you left no option for people to vote that this matchmaker is good or working out for them etc. P.S. I apologize for some of my word choice, but damn this forum has kinda become a ?female dog? session with not much coming from the conversation. Please, lets try to focus on solving the problems rather than to keep complaining/?female dog?ing about it with no resolution. Firstly, no one forced you to read this thread, so I am perplexed that you felt the need to read it all the way through AND comment on it. Secondly, you don't seem to realise that you just wrote a post 「female dog」ing about 「female dog」ing. Is the irony lost on you?
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Post by DarkVagabond on Jun 1, 2017 15:17:15 GMT -5
I'm glad squadding is working out for you, I have also had these sort of results in Expert when the right players are online. However, an adequate MM should also cater for those who play solo. You actually evidenced my point, since I'm saying that an Expert League players shouldn't even be matched with players in Champion who are 2000 or more rating points above, especially when playing solo. Sure, sometimes it'll work out for you, but the majority of the time your contribution to the match will be trivial and you will consistently miss out on the necessary Au rewards you need to upgrade your hangar. If players have such a hard on for themselves that they want to consistently play Champions and Legends, go ahead, I'm sure the new Custom matches will cater to your needs just fine. In the meantime, I ask people not to trivialise the legitimate struggles of the original poster who has already evidenced that he is an honest and reasonable level player. Otherwise you come across as just another meathead who cannot relate to another person's experience simply because it isn't the same as your own. Please don't forget we all started in the same place. I didn't magic myself to 9/9, it's been a long hard graft the whole way. People really do just have to get on with the game (or do something else) as the MM isn't going to change and emailing Pix about it is a waste of time. Thanks for your response. There are many reasons why another player's progress is less pleasant than another's which have nothing to do with their playing ability. I can attest to this myself, which is why I have vouched for the OP. And people ARE getting on with the game, they are just concurrently voicing their opinions on things that need improvement. Pix are already tweaking the MM, and that has been a direct result of player feedback, many of whom comment on this very forum. I like your attitude of 'just getting on with it', I think it has a lot of value. But I also see the great value of voicing constructive criticism, as it's the only power we have for effective change. We reserve the right to exercise it.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 1, 2017 15:26:27 GMT -5
I have an easy fix and totally fair way to match players based on their hangers. Using only the bots showing in a player's hanger you....
1. Average out the size of all bots in total. 2. Take the upgrade levels of every bot and add them all together. 3. Divide the total of the upgrades by the number of slots a player has. 4. Do the same for the weapons.
You get an average bot and average weapon size and two averaged upgrade numbers. Call it the overall hanger averages.
Take that hanger average and match it up against other players with the same or very near averages for solo matches.
So very simple, so very fair. No more being matched up against a hanger full of 10-12s while you're running less upgraded hangers. You change your hanger you change your averages.
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Post by llama4president on Jun 1, 2017 15:29:34 GMT -5
I would like to remember everyone that constructive critcism is always a good thing to help a game grow.
If there wasn't constructive criticism and feedback, many problems that have already been solved would still be here.
I understand that some people like the system like it is now. Many people probably liked the system before it received important updates. And your voice is precious as much as the one that ask for an improvement.
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Post by SATmaster728 on Jun 1, 2017 18:20:12 GMT -5
I have an easy fix and totally fair way to match players based on their hangers. Using only the bots showing in a player's hanger you.... 1. Average out the size of all bots in total. 2. Take the upgrade levels of every bot and add them all together. 3. Divide the total of the upgrades by the number of slots a player has. 4. Do the same for the weapons. You get an average bot and average weapon size and two averaged upgrade numbers. Call it the overall hanger averages. Take that hanger average and match it up against other players with the same or very near averages for solo matches. So very simple, so very fair. No more being matched up against a hanger full of 10-12s while you're running less upgraded hangers. You change your hanger you change your averages. No offense, but that is very similar to the old mm. The hanger slots counting makes some sense, but you forgot one thing, the gold to silver bot ratio. How will you factor that in?
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 1, 2017 19:52:49 GMT -5
I have an easy fix and totally fair way to match players based on their hangers. Using only the bots showing in a player's hanger you.... 1. Average out the size of all bots in total. 2. Take the upgrade levels of every bot and add them all together. 3. Divide the total of the upgrades by the number of slots a player has. 4. Do the same for the weapons. You get an average bot and average weapon size and two averaged upgrade numbers. Call it the overall hanger averages. Take that hanger average and match it up against other players with the same or very near averages for solo matches. So very simple, so very fair. No more being matched up against a hanger full of 10-12s while you're running less upgraded hangers. You change your hanger you change your averages. No offense, but that is very similar to the old mm. The hanger slots counting makes some sense, but you forgot one thing, the gold to silver bot ratio. How will you factor that in? Unless you can explain to me any difference between a gold bot and a silver bot besides what unit is used to obtain it I ain't. Because I don't see one when it comes to fighting. You can kill off a gold bot using gold weapons with a silver bot using silver weapons as easily as the other way around at the same upgrade levels. Same goes for WSP bots and weapons. I invite you to work it out on your own a few times and see if it doesn't balance out pretty well. You might get a few tilted matches but nowhere near the total lopsided affairs the current match making system produces using our ranks to match us up.
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Post by T34 on Jun 1, 2017 20:32:00 GMT -5
Just some interesting thoughts about the MM and the new league points system.
Scenario 1. – Just Cap
Assumptions: I just cap beacons and practically don’t shoot. Top the beacon capping 50% of the time and 2nd best Capper 50% of the time Results is placing 5th or 6th whether win or lose. 50% distribution between 5th and 6th placing. There is a MM induced 50% win loss rate (long term)
Outcome of the strategy Net average league points per game = -11 Net average gold earnings per game = 1.7 Probably bottom out in Bronze 1 as I think the scoring system changes there
Scenario 2 - Just Shoot (successfully) – no capping Is anyone interest in having a go at this. I don’t have the time now
Scenario 3 – Shoot and Cap (successfully) Is anyone interest in having a go at this. I don’t have the time now Gut feeling: Equilibrium in a higher league (without better bots or levelling).
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Post by Insane Demon on Jun 1, 2017 20:50:16 GMT -5
The matchmaking system is good. Pixonic... keep up the good way work.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 1, 2017 21:21:11 GMT -5
The matchmaking system is good. Pixonic... keep up the good way work. Indeed. Please explain why you like this current system? Current hangar, win rate, damage, tier, etc?
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Post by T34 on Jun 1, 2017 21:29:32 GMT -5
Scenario 2 - Just Shoot (successfully) – no capping Is anyone interest in having a go at this. I don’t have the time now
Actually, this one is very easy. Net average gain of -6 points per match will result in an downward trend.
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Post by Insane Demon on Jun 1, 2017 21:41:19 GMT -5
The matchmaking system is good. Pixonic... keep up the good way work. Indeed. Please explain why you like this current system? Current hangar, win rate, damage, tier, etc? We play on different platforms, so what I have to say won't matter to you as an iOS player.
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Post by shakingrabbit on Jun 1, 2017 22:06:46 GMT -5
I don't understand why some on this forum are so stuck on the current MM. It is clearly a sore sticking point with the majority of the players. Look at all the noobs that pop up in here asking what the hell is going on with the MM, myself included.
Not sure whether this was addressed directly or not but a big part of the problem is the complete lopsided-ness of the beatdowns. Nobody likes to lose but I think most players can stomach it if the matches are at least competitive.
A forced win rate of 50% also seems much too manipulative and INVITES, at the minimum, carelessness from players. Uncompetitive matches further promotes disillusionment.
I don't particularly care about my win rate anymore since I know the MM will force 50% onto me and instead am trying to branch out to other bots and have fun. I am running hangars with low level bots and weapons I have never played with before to get familiar with their mechanics. That means my teammates are playing with someone who is clearly underpowered. Sometimes we get lucky and win. Mostly I have been losing. Am I specifically trying to tank? Nope, not at all. I still go about trying to cap beacons and firing at reds. I just don't have much of an impact relatively.
As it is, I don't really give a ?firetruck? about getting my win rate up (still at 48%) or the pointless leagues either. My teammates are sadly, casualties of my experimentation. But it doesn't matter cause they will settle at 50% anyways.
Just helping out the MM as it were...
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Post by SATmaster728 on Jun 1, 2017 22:13:50 GMT -5
No offense, but that is very similar to the old mm. The hanger slots counting makes some sense, but you forgot one thing, the gold to silver bot ratio. How will you factor that in? Unless you can explain to me any difference between a gold bot and a silver bot besides what unit is used to obtain it I ain't. Because I don't see one when it comes to fighting. You can kill off a gold bot using gold weapons with a silver bot using silver weapons as easily as the other way around at the same upgrade levels. Same goes for WSP bots and weapons. I invite you to work it out on your own a few times and see if it doesn't balance out pretty well. You might get a few tilted matches but nowhere near the total lopsided affairs the current match making system produces using our ranks to match us up. What about someone using Max weapons on low bots? That would lead to some bad seal clubbing, much like the old mm.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Jun 1, 2017 23:32:32 GMT -5
Unless you can explain to me any difference between a gold bot and a silver bot besides what unit is used to obtain it I ain't. Because I don't see one when it comes to fighting. You can kill off a gold bot using gold weapons with a silver bot using silver weapons as easily as the other way around at the same upgrade levels. Same goes for WSP bots and weapons. I invite you to work it out on your own a few times and see if it doesn't balance out pretty well. You might get a few tilted matches but nowhere near the total lopsided affairs the current match making system produces using our ranks to match us up. What about someone using Max weapons on low bots? That would lead to some bad seal clubbing, much like the old mm. If you're only matched with and against players doing the same thing then no advantage is to be had by doing that. You'd never find yourself in a solo match where your hanger averages didn't always match your teammates and opponents. You could run different bots and different equipment and still come up with the same averages as before. Or maybe you want to use just light bots for a change. No matter what you change in your hanger it will affect your overall hanger averages and be reflected in the averages of both teams you find yourself in a solo match with. Even squading teams' hangers can be averaged out by each player's hanger and then adding them all together and figuring a total team bot size average dividing the total upgrade numbers by 6 to get full team's hanger averages that can be matched in the same way as solo matches.
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Post by llama4president on Jun 2, 2017 5:51:18 GMT -5
Unless you can explain to me any difference between a gold bot and a silver bot besides what unit is used to obtain it I ain't. Because I don't see one when it comes to fighting. You can kill off a gold bot using gold weapons with a silver bot using silver weapons as easily as the other way around at the same upgrade levels. Same goes for WSP bots and weapons. I invite you to work it out on your own a few times and see if it doesn't balance out pretty well. You might get a few tilted matches but nowhere near the total lopsided affairs the current match making system produces using our ranks to match us up. What about someone using Max weapons on low bots? That would lead to some bad seal clubbing, much like the old mm. I don't understand why people think it would be impossible to put rules in the averaging to avoid the exploits.. lol. a very simple workaround would be : IF Highest_wpn > (2+ X_wpn) THEN X_Wpn = Highest_wpn - 2 IF Highest_wpn > (2+ X_bot) THEN X_bot = Highest_wpn - 2 this way the system would pick up the highest weapon or Bot you got in your hangar as reference, and if there are weapon or bots that have more than 2 level difference, they would be considered just 2 levels away. And only after that, the averaging would be applied to calculate the hangar. No way that with a simple "Condition" like this that a gepard 1/12 would occur again. The system would recognize it as a 10/12 gepardI repeat, every programmer knows how to put conditions, these are the very basics of coding, don't think it's some Sci-Fy from the future... If Pixonic didn't implement limitations like this the last time, it was because was trying to speculate on the weapons without creating a balanced bracket system, and it resulted in just a fail. But if they implement brackets with increasingly higher Payouts of silver and gold, all the problems of seal clubbing would disappear altogether.
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Post by GreenFace on Jun 2, 2017 9:27:02 GMT -5
I saw that many people who didn't agree with the hangar based MM, usually thought about Geppo's seal clubbing in the past, and think that any people who likes the hangar based MM is always a coward who likes to fight enemies below his weight.
It's not like that. The hangar based MM in the past wasn't good, not because the system, but because it discounted some weapon's level. That's why I prefer to say "Gears level", so it means averaging bot's level AND weapon's as well. In that system, low level bot with high level weapons CAN'T face newbies with low level bots and low level weapons.
The proposed "back to hangar based MM" is a bit different than the old MM, and in normal game, there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those.
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karljackson
Destrier
Posts: 120
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Post by karljackson on Jun 2, 2017 9:48:15 GMT -5
if it will be a mode without rewards it will be just a catastrophic fail. having no rewards means it would be just something to do once in a long while, with friends, and with 0 gain out of it but just for testing or fun. if they do a parallel "non-ranked" matchmaker instead it would have larger use, as people interested more in balanced hangar play and more interested in skills than weapon level would play it. i would imagine a lot of people would like to play in a MM that would reward skill. The current MM is a skill-based MM. If you can persevere against overwhelming odds, you are a skilled player. If you are not moving up in the leagues, it means you are placed exactly where you should be when you average your skill level and equipment level. If custom matches have rewards, one could set up a dummy account and beat the crap out of themselves while reaping rewards all day long. If the argument is that you want to play alternative hangars for fun, then play custom matches and enjoy the fun. If you want rewards, step back into league play and earn your rewards. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If your placed exactly where you belong, then why would you be matched against Masters league (with superior weapons) when you have a below 40% win rate as an Expert league member. Consistently fighting against higher leagues and superior bots and weapons doesn't scream proper placement. Seems you would reach Masters level sooner than later (instead of going backwards) if that were the case.
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Post by Insane Demon on Jun 2, 2017 10:10:43 GMT -5
I saw that many people who didn't agree with the hangar based MM, usually thought about Geppo's seal clubbing in the past, and think that any people who likes the hangar based MM is always a coward who likes to fight enemies below his weight. It's not like that. The hangar based MM in the past wasn't good, not because the system, but because it discounted some weapon's level. That's why I prefer to say "Gears level", so it means averaging bot's level AND weapon's as well. In that system, low level bot with high level weapons CAN'T face newbies with low level bots and low level weapons. The proposed "back to hangar based MM" is a bit different than the old MM, and in normal game, there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those. There would still be too much whining from people who want to use Recruit/Bronze/Silver league level bots with Gold+ league level weapons. They want to use levels 1-7 bots with level 8+ weapons in a 5-slot hangar against players haven't even earned enough gold to buy the 5th slot. That's why the hangar-based system (the way y'all want it to be) shouldn't be implemented. You have to also take slots into account, not just bot and weapon levels.
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Post by llama4president on Jun 2, 2017 13:34:31 GMT -5
I saw that many people who didn't agree with the hangar based MM, usually thought about Geppo's seal clubbing in the past, and think that any people who likes the hangar based MM is always a coward who likes to fight enemies below his weight. It's not like that. The hangar based MM in the past wasn't good, not because the system, but because it discounted some weapon's level. That's why I prefer to say "Gears level", so it means averaging bot's level AND weapon's as well. In that system, low level bot with high level weapons CAN'T face newbies with low level bots and low level weapons. The proposed "back to hangar based MM" is a bit different than the old MM, and in normal game, there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those. There would still be too much whining from people who want to use Recruit/Bronze/Silver league level bots with Gold+ league level weapons. They want to use levels 1-7 bots with level 8+ weapons in a 5-slot hangar against players haven't even earned enough gold to buy the 5th slot. That's why the hangar-based system (the way y'all want it to be) shouldn't be implemented. You have to also take slots into account, not just bot and weapon levels. Are u just trolling? did you even read what has been wrote? Sealclubbers aren't appreciated by neither of the old and the new MM players. I Even wrote how simple a possible fix would be. Accusing people that would like a MM based on Equality more than Equity to be just wannabe sealclubbers isn't contributing at all. Hangar slots could be taken in account also, they could just act as a modifier to the final hangar value, but i wouldn't put ANY dramatic weight on it, or possible abuse could happen (like 2 - 3 slot hangars with maxed bots facing lower lvl competition)
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Post by Poopface on Jun 2, 2017 14:10:51 GMT -5
Hangar slots could be taken in account also, they could just act as a modifier to the final hangar value, but i wouldn't put ANY dramatic weight on it, or possible abuse could happen (like 2 - 3 slot hangars with maxed bots facing lower lvl competition) Just set up a MM for those under level 10/20/30 and another for 30 (and over if they ever raised the cap). At 30+, just assume people have 5 slots. You have a slotted setup at any number of tiers similar to the previous gear-based one where more bots are allowed as you climb the tiers and as you climb, higher level bot/weapon combos are allowed. With this setup, seal clubbing is done away with. You aren't forced to a given win/loss percentage, bot/weaponry availability and leveling is managed at a macro level, and the combat becomes more about loadout innovation and skill than maintaining a forced percentage.
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Post by Ron Gaul on Jun 2, 2017 14:46:32 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree.
Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll.
Just an observation.
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
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Platform: iOS
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League: Champion
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Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 2, 2017 16:13:50 GMT -5
I started around the time the old MM is about to be replaced by the new. since then, I don't have much problem with the new MM. it's true that I would anticipate a losing streak and stronger opponents coming up when my win% > 60%. but as my bots and weapons upgraded, I gradually adjusted to those stronger opponents. my damage output goes up and I advance through the league - started diamondIII when the league introduced, now I am in the middle of expertIII. at first, the expertIII felt like a hell and I was in and out of diamond. but gradually I adjusted and now I am not going back to the diaomond any more. when I start learning a new weapon setup, my damage output, league position, and win rate all precisely respond by going down, then they gradually come back as the setup upgraded and I more accustomed to it. so I think it's more or less fair.
the old MM, what I didn't understand was why I was to be panelized for upgrading bots. all advice at that time was not to upgrade things above certain levels to stay at blah blah and earn more gold - I felt that was ridiculous.
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Post by Insane Demon on Jun 2, 2017 16:24:03 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree. Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll. Just an observation. A poll mixed with iOS and Android players. It's possible for someone with a 2-bot hangar to be in the Gold league (iirc) on iOS. That is impossible on Android. [omitted]
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 2, 2017 16:32:38 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree. Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll. Just an observation. you should consider the possibility that those who click your post are more likely to have a predisposition against the current MM (look at the thread title) (or someone like me who just enjoy reading threads while not playing - but how many will be there?). it is hard to tell unless you force everyone to vote, like an in-game survey, Read more: war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/8455/petition-pixonic-change-mm?page=5#ixzz4isoSFSWN
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on Jun 2, 2017 16:38:03 GMT -5
To those who say the MM is fine: so far this poll has a 70.4% majority of those who dislike vs like the current MM. That's not even 1/3 players who like the current system; that's just barely more than 1/4. If you like it, great...but most players disagree. Small sample size? Almost 100 people have voted, which is a fairly decent poll. Just an observation. All that proves is that 70.4% of the people who took the time to vote are sore losers. 100 people is a completely insignificant number in a game with millions of players. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those millions don't even know that there ever was a different MM system, and they just shut the hell up and enjoy the game.
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