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Post by Ron Gaul on May 31, 2017 12:22:17 GMT -5
I'm sick of the MM. So, I sent the following to Pixonic:
To whom it may concern:
Why, may I ask, did you create this new matchmaker the way you did? Why do you want all players to win and lose equally?
Under the old system, it was possible to abuse the algorithm. For some reason you had programmed in a workaround to allow the Gepard to carry L12 weapons against L1 bots, resulting in decimation.
That was better than this, because under that old system, once a player reached L7/8 bots and weapons, everything equalized. What you've created now is a system where everyone is as good as everyone else. Perforce, because you inflate bad players' win rates by stacking them against worse players. Yet good players are kept from getting too good by being matched against players with vastly superior bots and weapons.
You didn't create balance. You created artificial equality. Which has a lot of players very angry that, no matter what they do, they can't rise far above a 50% win rate. Because, like me, they didn't become worse; the new MM simply pulls us down.
Please. Fix this. The matchmaker doesn't need to be tweaked; it needs to be replaced. It has failed.
Respectfully.
That was my email. Currently waiting on a reply. Compadres, if you hate this MM system, please email Pixonic, similarly to this. Copy and paste if you like. But, if you agree, please do something about it,
Regards,
Rongaulius
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Post by noobcake on May 31, 2017 12:56:02 GMT -5
The matches are better with the new matchmaker but there are some fun elements that are gone. The biggest one is that playing with friends is not fruitful and sometimes I want a non-competitive match. Ideally, an un-ranked game mode using some iteration of the hangar score would match similar level bots together.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 13:05:10 GMT -5
Ironically, the old matchmaking rewarded skill and matches were mostly fair. If you had a level 8 bot, the enemy probably had a level 8 bot. Whoever had more skill, or sometimes, more luck won. You could play with anyone by adjusting to their hangar strength and it had a good competitive vibe to keep players playing and paying. Everyone was guaranteed to be fighting someone in their tier, unlike what it is now. Moreover, it was actually fun. In this new matchmaking, the MM keeps you at a ~50%, and with the new League Point distribution, it will be a 50% or lower. No matter how good you are, or how bad you are, you will always be fighting each game knowing that you have a 50/50 chance of a victory or loss. There has not been this many complaint about the old matchmaking as with this one. My vote strongly goes with reverting back to the old MM with just more restrictions to keep out the clubbers.
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on May 31, 2017 13:19:31 GMT -5
The so called "problem" with the old MM was people found it easier to whine and complain about Geps than to beat them. Some may know already, but I used to be a 5 Gep hangar kind of guy, and have been on both ends of the "club". I may have even been one of the originators of the term "clubbing", as I described one clan squad victory as like "clubbing baby seals, baby!" Not long after that I started seeing others use the term. But now I'm wandering...
Anyway, with the Gep being the "problem", Pixonic should have just nerfed the Gep, and they did (lvl 4 Gep went from 61k HP to 53k)- about a week before the new MM plunged us all to the 7th Circle of Hell. We all know how it's been since and most have adjusted more or less. Point is, they used a chainsaw to fix a "problem" that a scalpel would have solved.
It was nice to pick your opponent class by outfitting different hangars. Kept things fresh. At this point War Robots has become boring and I've started a new account just for a change of scenery.
I've emailed Pixonic several times appealing for a return to gear based MM. One more won't hurt.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 31, 2017 13:26:38 GMT -5
In less than 8 weeks the custom matches will be up and you can be your own matchmaker! That's pretty good turn around on a wish to have a better matchmaker...You pressed send and they were already on it. Service.
There won't be any more MM sucks threads.
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Post by critter667 on May 31, 2017 13:30:17 GMT -5
There won't be any more MM sucks threads. Never happen. Even with a perfect MM, people will complain.
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Post by Poopface on May 31, 2017 13:41:01 GMT -5
The so called "problem" with the old MM was people found it easier to whine and complain about Geps than to beat them. Some may know already, but I used to be a 5 Gep hangar kind of guy, and have been on both ends of the "club". I may have even been one of the originators of the term "clubbing", as I described one clan squad victory as like "clubbing baby seals, baby!" Not long after that I started seeing others use the term. But now I'm wandering... I had a hanger of Geps and Taran Rogatkas. Dems were de days.....
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Meep
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Post by Meep on May 31, 2017 13:54:52 GMT -5
Ironically, the old matchmaking rewarded skill and matches were mostly fair. If you had a level 8 bot, the enemy probably had a level 8 bot. Whoever had more skill, or sometimes, more luck won. You could play with anyone by adjusting to their hangar strength and it had a good competitive vibe to keep players playing and paying. Everyone was guaranteed to be fighting someone in their tier, unlike what it is now. Moreover, it was actually fun. In this new matchmaking, the MM keeps you at a ~50%, and with the new League Point distribution, it will be a 50% or lower. No matter how good you are, or how bad you are, you will always be fighting each game knowing that you have a 50/50 chance of a victory or loss. There has not been this many complaint about the old matchmaking as with this one. My vote strongly goes with reverting back to the old MM with just more restrictions to keep out the clubbers. There are 2 teams so there has always been a 50/50 chance at winning - tankers and other factors not withstanding. I need to try to find the source of the new MM keeping you at/near a 50% win ratio as it doesn't make sense from a game development strategy. What DOES make sense is the MM looking at your league score vs league bracket and try to match based on that. As you win more your individual score goes up which can result in facing harder opponents. Sure that sucks if you are on the bottom end of range but /shrug. Id like to see the last person on the winning team (that contributed) actually lose points. I'm currently running a 8/8 hanger in Expert 3 which comes with a level of suck but is what it is.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 31, 2017 14:23:29 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM.
It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me.
They want to revert to a system which was easier to manipulate. They miss being able to beat up noobs whenever they wanted without having to go through all the trouble of tanking.
If you really want to play low levels, start a new account and don't upgrade anything. Problem solved.
Why is that option unacceptable to some? Because they want to take their earnings from casual noob stomping and apply them towards their primary hangar. Which poses the question: why do you want better equipment if you love playing with the starter gear so much?
At this point, the diversity argument goes out the window. It's all about using an established account to beat up on players who don't have as many resources.
In a couple months the custom matches will go live. Then every current argument for the old MM will be null and void. But rest assured, people will come up with new reasons, because that's what people do. They make excuses for why they suck at something instead of accepting it and/or trying to get better.
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Post by llama4president on May 31, 2017 14:36:47 GMT -5
In less than 8 weeks the custom matches will be up and you can be your own matchmaker! That's pretty good turn around on a wish to have a better matchmaker...You pressed send and they were already on it. Service. There won't be any more MM sucks threads. I seriously hope they will be rewarded the same as the League matches, and obviously not giving out league points.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 31, 2017 14:38:14 GMT -5
..That and the fact the psychological human need to fall error to the 'glory days romanticism' makes the old MM look like a dumpster full of diamonds when it was just piles of broken glass...
The Gep will be back at some point...Anniversary Event?? The MM is going to become optional soon.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 31, 2017 14:39:56 GMT -5
In less than 8 weeks the custom matches will be up and you can be your own matchmaker! That's pretty good turn around on a wish to have a better matchmaker...You pressed send and they were already on it. Service. There won't be any more MM sucks threads. I seriously hope they will be rewarded the same as the League matches, and obviously not giving out league points. I doubt that rewards will be part of it...It will allow a different level of play and even private leagues to emerge.
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Post by zer00eyz on May 31, 2017 14:43:03 GMT -5
Ironically, the old matchmaking rewarded skill and matches were mostly fair. If you had a level 8 bot, the enemy probably had a level 8 bot. Whoever had more skill, or sometimes, more luck won. You could play with anyone by adjusting to their hangar strength and it had a good competitive vibe to keep players playing and paying. Everyone was guaranteed to be fighting someone in their tier, unlike what it is now. Moreover, it was actually fun. In this new matchmaking, the MM keeps you at a ~50%, and with the new League Point distribution, it will be a 50% or lower. No matter how good you are, or how bad you are, you will always be fighting each game knowing that you have a 50/50 chance of a victory or loss. There has not been this many complaint about the old matchmaking as with this one. My vote strongly goes with reverting back to the old MM with just more restrictions to keep out the clubbers. Oddly, I can keep a 60% win rate, by running an all capping hanger. Your win rate being at 50% is a byproduct of MM doing its job well, not MM screwing you or giving you a leg up. There are also lots of terrible players with 40% (consistent) win rates (who are literal 「dookie」 clogging up the system) But were about to have a new points distribution. You can have a high win rate, or a low one --- your win rate will be variable and it will MEAN something again, rather than being an artifact of MM.
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Post by Ron Gaul on May 31, 2017 14:43:27 GMT -5
..That and the fact the psychological human need to fall error to the 'glory days romanticism' makes the old MM look like a dumpster full of diamonds when it was just piles of broken glass... The Gep will be back at some point...Anniversary Event?? The MM is going to become optional soon. No. I was mostly okay with the old MM by the time it was replaced. I complained my fair share when I was a seal, working my way through Silver tier, but once I reached Gold tier I was fine. Yes, the old MM was bad in Silver tier, but...you knew what to expect: hordes of clubbers up until you reached a high enough level. This new MM is simply unpredictable.
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Post by lilryry on May 31, 2017 14:44:49 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM. It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me. They want to revert to a system which was easier to manipulate. They miss being able to beat up noobs whenever they wanted without having to go through all the trouble of tanking. If you really want to play low levels, start a new account and don't upgrade anything. Problem solved. Why is that option unacceptable to some? Because they want to take their earnings from casual noob stomping and apply them towards their primary hangar. Which poses the question: why do you want better equipment if you love playing with the starter gear so much? At this point, the diversity argument goes out the window. It's all about using an established account to beat up on players who don't have as many resources. In a couple months the custom matches will go live. Then every current argument for the old MM will be null and void. But rest assured, people will come up with new reasons, because that's what people do. They make excuses for why they suck at something instead of accepting it and/or trying to get better. this is an interesting thought, I'm sure some people fall into the category in which you speak but there are reasons to want a gear based mm other than clubbing but I won't waste my time as many people other than myself have attempted to explain their reasons since the new mm dropped but people like yourself have always chose to ignore those reasons...anyways, carry on
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 31, 2017 14:46:47 GMT -5
In less than 8 weeks the custom matches will be up and you can be your own matchmaker! That's pretty good turn around on a wish to have a better matchmaker...You pressed send and they were already on it. Service. There won't be any more MM sucks threads. I seriously hope they will be rewarded the same as the League matches, and obviously not giving out league points. There shouldn't be ANY rewards for custom matches. That would be WAY too easy to manipulate and cash in on. If the argument is that players want to play "just for fun", then the "fun" is their reward.
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Post by Domino on May 31, 2017 14:48:11 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM. It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me. They want to revert to a system which was easier to manipulate. They miss being able to beat up noobs whenever they wanted without having to go through all the trouble of tanking. If you really want to play low levels, start a new account and don't upgrade anything. Problem solved. Why is that option unacceptable to some? Because they want to take their earnings from casual noob stomping and apply them towards their primary hangar. Which poses the question: why do you want better equipment if you love playing with the starter gear so much? At this point, the diversity argument goes out the window. It's all about using an established account to beat up on players who don't have as many resources. In a couple months the custom matches will go live. Then every current argument for the old MM will be null and void. But rest assured, people will come up with new reasons, because that's what people do. They make excuses for why they suck at something instead of accepting it and/or trying to get better. Ladies and Gentlemen.... Our next President of the United States.
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Post by llama4president on May 31, 2017 14:48:19 GMT -5
I seriously hope they will be rewarded the same as the League matches, and obviously not giving out league points. I doubt that rewards will be part of it...It will allow a different level of play and even private leagues to emerge. if it will be a mode without rewards it will be just a catastrophic fail. having no rewards means it would be just something to do once in a long while, with friends, and with 0 gain out of it but just for testing or fun. if they do a parallel "non-ranked" matchmaker instead it would have larger use, as people interested more in balanced hangar play and more interested in skills than weapon level would play it. i would imagine a lot of people would like to play in a MM that would reward skill.
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Post by zer00eyz on May 31, 2017 14:49:54 GMT -5
I'm sick of the MM. So, I sent the following to Pixonic: .... Regards, Rongaulius Your tears are delicious. If you don't like it, stop playing, stop paying... but really just stop crying about it....
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 31, 2017 14:52:19 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM. It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me. They want to revert to a system which was easier to manipulate. They miss being able to beat up noobs whenever they wanted without having to go through all the trouble of tanking. If you really want to play low levels, start a new account and don't upgrade anything. Problem solved. Why is that option unacceptable to some? Because they want to take their earnings from casual noob stomping and apply them towards their primary hangar. Which poses the question: why do you want better equipment if you love playing with the starter gear so much? At this point, the diversity argument goes out the window. It's all about using an established account to beat up on players who don't have as many resources. In a couple months the custom matches will go live. Then every current argument for the old MM will be null and void. But rest assured, people will come up with new reasons, because that's what people do. They make excuses for why they suck at something instead of accepting it and/or trying to get better. The power of corruption at work..."I promise I wont use my 12/12 hanger to eviscerate players who just barley figured out where the start button is..I promise!!". Yes, people want the easy button, yes they would use 12/12 hangers against 1/1 hangers for stupid easy gold, and yes, those doing this will deny it and justify it 25 hours a day, 8 days a week... Human psychology: get ahead in the fastest, cheapest/easiest means possible. Once understood, this must be accepted. Custom matches will allow freedom from all of it.
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on May 31, 2017 14:55:01 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM. It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me. I'd concede that's why a bunch preferred the old MM, but respectfully, your brush is a little broad on this one. I've done alright with the new (Expert 3/2ish), I just preferred the old for the ability to run a variety of hangars and meet similarly equipped opponents. Sometimes I feel fast, and I loved my Geps, but even upgraded they're underpowered. Yes, they can be a factor if used right, but they don't hold up well in higher levels. Even Gareth and Stalker have to be careful. You do have a valid point, but it doesn't apply to everyone.
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Post by Ron Gaul on May 31, 2017 14:56:46 GMT -5
I'm sick of the MM. So, I sent the following to Pixonic: .... Regards, Rongaulius Your tears are delicious. If you don't like it, stop playing, stop paying... but really just stop crying about it.... Hmm. Very mature response there. Possibly the least constructive I've seen all day. Good job. Pray tell how does that add anything useful to this discussion? I voiced an opinion, along with why I hold that opinion; you merely made a remark savaging my opinion. So now, defend your opinion. Tell us why you think this matchmaker is a good one, if that is your opinion. I always enjoy a good discussion. And if you choose not to, I suggest you not post in this thread again. I started this thread to have a discussion. If you'd rather spout off than discuss politely, kindly find another place to do it.
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on May 31, 2017 15:01:15 GMT -5
Afterthought - a 50% win rate is "fair". Means you win as often as you lose. Variations from 50% are likely idicative of your skill level compared to the skill of red team, minus the tanker effect, etc.
I used to have high 90s win rate, too. 50% seems low, but it's about right for most of us.
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Post by Ron Gaul on May 31, 2017 15:03:47 GMT -5
@ Freedom Fighter, I for one have no interest in gaming the system. Under the old matchmaker, I played in what was then Gold tier. I wasn't against new players. I played against opponents who were equipped roughly equivalent to my own hangar. And I won, not by cheating or clubbing. Again, I ran solo with L7-8 bots and weapons. I wasn't cheating then, I have no interest in starting now.
Under this MM, you can run any hangar you want and eventually it'll equalize your win rate to 50%. This system tries to force everyone to win and lose equally. Again, this system forces equality, not balance.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on May 31, 2017 15:04:35 GMT -5
..And "fair" is a subjective term...Everyone is gonna have a different take on it.
Look, I am in Dia+ and I get ?poo-poo? stomped by the best...but I also ?poo-poo? stomp. So I am playing the best guys in the game which = privileged and honored
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Post by llama4president on May 31, 2017 15:08:43 GMT -5
I really don't understand why some of you are so vocal against Skill to be rewarded.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 31, 2017 15:10:21 GMT -5
My theory is that the only people who want to go back to the old MM are the people who can't make it in the current MM. It's the ONLY theory that makes sense to me. I'd concede that's why a bunch preferred the old MM, but respectfully, your brush is a little broad on this one. I've done alright with the new (Expert 3/2ish), I just preferred the old for the ability to run a variety of hangars and meet similarly equipped opponents. Sometimes I feel fast, and I loved my Geps, but even upgraded they're underpowered. Yes, they can be a factor if used right, but they don't hold up well in higher levels. Even Gareth and Stalker have to be careful. You do have a valid point, but it doesn't apply to everyone. Then run a variety of hangars on multiple accounts, or upgrade a variety of equipment to a usable level for your respective league.
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Post by DarkVagabond on May 31, 2017 15:11:26 GMT -5
Ironically, the old matchmaking rewarded skill and matches were mostly fair. If you had a level 8 bot, the enemy probably had a level 8 bot. Whoever had more skill, or sometimes, more luck won. You could play with anyone by adjusting to their hangar strength and it had a good competitive vibe to keep players playing and paying. Everyone was guaranteed to be fighting someone in their tier, unlike what it is now. Moreover, it was actually fun. In this new matchmaking, the MM keeps you at a ~50%, and with the new League Point distribution, it will be a 50% or lower. No matter how good you are, or how bad you are, you will always be fighting each game knowing that you have a 50/50 chance of a victory or loss. There has not been this many complaint about the old matchmaking as with this one. My vote strongly goes with reverting back to the old MM with just more restrictions to keep out the clubbers. Oddly, I can keep a 60% win rate, by running an all capping hanger. Your win rate being at 50% is a byproduct of MM doing its job well, not MM screwing you or giving you a leg up. There are also lots of terrible players with 40% (consistent) win rates (who are literal ?poo-poo? clogging up the system) But were about to have a new points distribution. You can have a high win rate, or a low one --- your win rate will be variable and it will MEAN something again, rather than being an artifact of MM. About your 60% winrate - i have had a similar experience. But I noticed that the MM is also dependent on average damage. I was sustaining a 60% winrate also, but when my damage got above 450k per match, the MM seemed to bump me up a tier and I was consistently facing almost maxed out hangars. This was further reflected in the one time I tanked. My league wasn't THAT low when I started playing competitively again, but I had a couple of matches where I was paired up with lvl3 destriers and the like before my average damage then seemed to put me in a higher bracket. It seems to be twofold in my experience. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 15:15:32 GMT -5
In my opinion, I think a 50% win rate is fair for those who are average. But for the better players, they don't deserve the same win rates as an 'average Joe'. They deserve much higher. But if you are not good at the game, I believe a win rate in the high 30s or 40s would be fair.
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Post by FRΞΞDØM☆F1GHTΞR on May 31, 2017 15:16:50 GMT -5
I doubt that rewards will be part of it...It will allow a different level of play and even private leagues to emerge. if it will be a mode without rewards it will be just a catastrophic fail. having no rewards means it would be just something to do once in a long while, with friends, and with 0 gain out of it but just for testing or fun. if they do a parallel "non-ranked" matchmaker instead it would have larger use, as people interested more in balanced hangar play and more interested in skills than weapon level would play it. i would imagine a lot of people would like to play in a MM that would reward skill. The current MM is a skill-based MM. If you can persevere against overwhelming odds, you are a skilled player. If you are not moving up in the leagues, it means you are placed exactly where you should be when you average your skill level and equipment level. If custom matches have rewards, one could set up a dummy account and beat the crap out of themselves while reaping rewards all day long. If the argument is that you want to play alternative hangars for fun, then play custom matches and enjoy the fun. If you want rewards, step back into league play and earn your rewards. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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