Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 3:41:51 GMT -5
How would making the limit be the weapons level change anything when the meta is already 4/12? The limit being the bot level is to discourage the blatant min/maxing we get now in HB and Last Stand. I have been playing around with Tin's concept of whatever the highest lvl slot on the bot is, be it weapon or the bot itself, would be the bots lvl for scoring purpose. I.E. a 4/12 Gepard has the same hangar score as a 12/4 Gepard or a 12/12 Gepard. Throw in Hangar average instead of highest bot, and now you have a system that doesn't punish you nearly as hard for not knowing the exact science of upgrades with plenty o' spreadsheets handy. Very little impact on most hangars that have weapons 2-3 lvls higher then the bot. The main changes would be to hangars that clearly don't understand MM ( a little more forgiving) or that have min/maxed the MM system (everyone's favorite, the 4/12 gep hangar would be thrown into a much higher tier.) So that we don't get bots stupidly higher than weap levels? How many level 9 griffs with level 6 weaps have you seen in gold tier? This would help noobies a lot by making sure that they don't upgrade themselves into gold tier way before they're ready. The problem with limiting weap levels to bot levels is that this forces noobies up to the higher tiers much sooner than they should be. A 6/6 destrier is ranked higher than a 4/12 destrier for instance, and the 6/6 destrier is much less effective. This is why I also suggested keeping level 30 players out of the lower tiers(you can make the player level even lower if you wish so). What encourages camping is dying too quickly. You know how sometimes after you've meched out of a bot extremely quickly you feel like reaching for that midrange bot you keep in your hangar? This is basically that but at an extreme. Dying far too quickly from mag geps, thunder schutzes, and the like causes noobs to stay further and further away from the battlefield in an attempt to increase their survivability. In addition, this also causes them to have far too little experience with knife fighting and also less skill in general as they have less time per match to practice their skills. Your idea still would not help at all with the noobies, an overly leveled bot is going to be thrown into the higher tiers anyways and people are just going to run 4/4 gep mags instead to club in bronze since clubbing in silver is now practically impossible. In fact, you've removed most of their competition, such as the thunder schutze, the orkan cossack, the aphid gep, the pinata gep, the pinata destrier, etc. The only setups that would be able to get into the same tier as the gep and still be useful would be the 4/4 taran cossack and the 4/4 mag destrier. The taran cossack would be much slower, have less firepower, and have less health, same for the mag destrier. And this also shifts the margin of clubbing much lower. Right now, clubbing is mostly in low silver, which is much better than last year where you could club in rookie tier. You can't just look at fixing the current problems, you have to look at fixing the future problems as well. A league system that consists of a base score of total hangar power with a heavier influence from player metrics (elo) would eliminate clubbing. Pix has been leaning toward the latter, but still has yet to properly correct the former. One of the biggest issues brand new players will run into is the "recommended" upgrade prompts. My suggestion was actually more along the lines of: 6 classes of base scores(2 for each weight class) that scale in a similar fashion to how the MM works now, each with their own unique base score to remove the penalty that is currently strapped in to the player metric-based modifier. All bots of like currency would be rated the same per weight class (I:E: All Au/wsp light bots would share the same scale, being only a half-step in base scale rating between Ag lights and Ag Mediums) Bots would be scored solely on the higher number between bot level and weapon average level, recommended upgrades would only need a minor alteration to recommend the lowest level of the lowest weighted bot at any given time. To incorporate multiple slots into MM, simply add a 10% increase per Au slot (2nd is ag) for a total of a 30% increase of the top bot's score (base Hangar power) at 5 slots. I wouldn't personally agree with that, because some of the glam of grinding for more slots would go out the window. The MM update has been paraded as having a (simple, at least), UI to notify the player of the current bracket that they are in. Changing the base scoring system and recommended actions to the prior, along with this blaring "YOU ARE HERE" sign in the UI, means that those who have 9/1 hangars are those that have blatantly ignored every tip they could have been given, in game and through media. Currently the modifiers from player win % score are marginal, but enough for 'non optimized' hangars to see a colossal spike in competition after a certain point. Current MM is only "gamed" by min-maxing because of the lack of hard boundaries. One level above the clubber's 4/12 puts them in the score ranges of high silver/bottom gold as we call it. If pix is going implement Elo, the former would allow them to simplify each league to 3 overlapping level grades per scale-class per league.(Giving players a definite "YOU ARE HERE"). The base hangar power, based on the strongest bot, would place the player in their displayed league,(info could be a simple ? Widget) with 50% win rate (or rating of total player metric) being the dead center of the league, 25%-49% Treated as the lower level in the league (thus expanding the likelyhood of mid-high players of the league below, vice versa for 51%-75), <25% a complete demotion, >75 being a complete promotion. This will always keep the game trying to pit you in/against teams that will return you to the dead center of your league barring the very bottom, and the very top. With all that being said, yes, people that desperately want to shoot fish in a barrel can 「fake pee place」 1/1 mag geps, but they'd be fighting lv1-4 rated light bots, level 1-2 rated mediums ONLY as long as their win rate/player metric stays at dead center, once they start winning they'll start facing up to lv 5 rated lights and 3 rated mediums, and if they break 75% they'll be facing up to lv 6 rated lights and lv 4 rated mediums, with all of those opposition level limits being 1-2 higher if the opponents are poor performing players. This kind of thing would also give pix a solid framework on how to balance each bot class/type outright so that all lv 12 rated premium bots have something they can offer for end game level gameplay. Ag lights NEED to be inferior. No Au/Wsp bot should fall out of relevance at any level of play they can actually be used in, keeping all of the premium bots on the same scale lays down a ground work for Pix to properly balance the content that they want players to come out of pocket for, and have a fair basis to determine the in game costs/currency type) of future content. |
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Post by SGT D00M! on Dec 18, 2016 7:14:17 GMT -5
Another easy fix for the Gep issue is just treat it like a wsp/britbot penaltywise and start wsp weapons at lvl 5. The reason I like hangar average is that it encourages mixed hangars and doesn't punish as severly when you get your first heavy bot.
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Post by Deadalready on Dec 18, 2016 8:03:02 GMT -5
Another easy fix for the Gep issue is just treat it like a wsp/britbot penaltywise and start wsp weapons at lvl 5. The reason I like hangar average is that it encourages mixed hangars and doesn't punish as severly when you get your first heavy bot. It would be nice to see more variety in hangers and more bots in a hanger *SHOULD* be weighed higher. Three bots vs five is a massive disadvantage. |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 18, 2016 8:56:33 GMT -5
Another easy fix for the Gep issue is just treat it like a wsp/britbot penaltywise and start wsp weapons at lvl 5. The reason I like hangar average is that it encourages mixed hangars and doesn't punish as severly when you get your first heavy bot. The OP'ness of the Gep is Pixonic's big money maker. Would you rather a balanced game with no further development or a freaking awesome game that everyone plays because the game was developed and advertised right and made into a real top grossing game like Clash of Clans and stuff? We just have to leave the Gep as is and wait for Pix to make a development breakthrough that sends this game into virality and then they can make fancy balancing additions to the game with the money they make from grossing. |
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Post by SGT D00M! on Dec 18, 2016 9:13:52 GMT -5
That's sarcasm, right?
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 18, 2016 12:14:34 GMT -5
The OP'ness of the Gep is Pixonic's big money maker. We just have to leave the Gep as is and wait for Pix to make a development breakthrough that sends this game into virality and then they can make fancy balancing additions to the game with the money they make from grossing. Wait. Help me out: We need to leave the game in a state that has now demonstrably reduced new player retention ...until money from fewer and fewer new players allows a magical discovery ...that brings the game sudden awareness from people who aren't playing ...and then before those people start playing after their instantaneous awareness ...Pix needs to be able to more-instantly fix the brokenness that would otherwise run those new players off. There's no way I understood that properly. |
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Post by den1z on Dec 18, 2016 12:28:08 GMT -5
I'm lost... Can i shoot it?
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 18, 2016 16:07:13 GMT -5
The OP'ness of the Gep is Pixonic's big money maker. We just have to leave the Gep as is and wait for Pix to make a development breakthrough that sends this game into virality and then they can make fancy balancing additions to the game with the money they make from grossing. Wait. Help me out: We need to leave the game in a state that has now demonstrably reduced new player retention ...until money from fewer and fewer new players allows a magical discovery ...that brings the game sudden awareness from people who aren't playing ...and then before those people start playing after their instantaneous awareness ...Pix needs to be able to more-instantly fix the brokenness that would otherwise run those new players off. There's no way I understood that properly. Yes. That is literally what I said and meant. |
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xserranx
Destrier
Posts: 32
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Pilot name: OUCH✪MF™
Platform: Android
Clan: BBC
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Post by xserranx on Dec 18, 2016 18:36:39 GMT -5
Not knowing the details on how ELo works.. but how about also adding retrictions to mount weapons dependant on bot levels.
E.g. lvl12 weapons can only be mounted on lvl6+ bots. Or maybe lvl8 bots depending if ag/au/wsp? Etc etc.
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Post by mechbond on Dec 18, 2016 22:19:40 GMT -5
Here is my 0.2 cents;;
I like the game and MM as it is, except annoying Mag Geps which can be easily fixed (add MM penalty). ELo has downsides as somebody already pointed out, main one being that if you are good it keeps forcing you into fighting "better" opponents who more often than not, outgear you, so you are limited by your gear. Now, it works good in games where you are given full spectrum of gear right away, because all that matters is skill. It sucks in games where it takes LONG time to reach max gear level. I find that Walking War Robots is somewhere in the middle of this. If this goes into effect it will make me level to 12/12 asap and fight evenly geared players, which should add to the fun, not diminish it. Anything under 12/12 and you get "punished" for being skilled. I hope Pixo takes reasonable approach and doesn't turn Walking War Robots into very different game with new MM.
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Post by Curry Pot on Dec 18, 2016 23:36:58 GMT -5
Another easy fix for the Gep issue is just treat it like a wsp/britbot penaltywise and start wsp weapons at lvl 5. The reason I like hangar average is that it encourages mixed hangars and doesn't punish as severly when you get your first heavy bot. The OP'ness of the Gep is Pixonic's big money maker. Would you rather a balanced game with no further development or a freaking awesome game that everyone plays because the game was developed and advertised right and made into a real top grossing game like Clash of Clans and stuff? We just have to leave the Gep as is and wait for Pix to make a development breakthrough that sends this game into virality and then they can make fancy balancing additions to the game with the money they make from grossing. You know that the Gepard starter pack is ranked as the #10 IAP (at least for iOS), right? Gepards are barely making this game any money (14000 gold for a hundred bucks is at #8), and in fact, they are costing the game by driving away noobs that would have otherwise spent some money on this game. Just read the one-star reviews. |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 19, 2016 3:24:58 GMT -5
The OP'ness of the Gep is Pixonic's big money maker. Would you rather a balanced game with no further development or a freaking awesome game that everyone plays because the game was developed and advertised right and made into a real top grossing game like Clash of Clans and stuff? We just have to leave the Gep as is and wait for Pix to make a development breakthrough that sends this game into virality and then they can make fancy balancing additions to the game with the money they make from grossing. You know that the Gepard starter pack is ranked as the #10 IAP (at least for iOS), right? Gepards are barely making this game any money (14000 gold for a hundred bucks is at #8), and in fact, they are costing the game by driving away noobs that would have otherwise spent some money on this game. Just read the one-star reviews. Wait where'd you get the numbers from? But you do have a valid af point. |
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 19, 2016 12:14:19 GMT -5
You know that the Gepard starter pack is ranked as the #10 IAP (at least for iOS), right? Gepards are barely making this game any money (14000 gold for a hundred bucks is at #8), and in fact, they are costing the game by driving away noobs that would have otherwise spent some money on this game. Just read the one-star reviews. Wait where'd you get the numbers from? In the game's App Store profile. Under the Top In-App Purchases. You can also see on he charts that War Robots is #85 under Top Grossing. Not a good place to be. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 12:19:29 GMT -5
A tv Ad or 2. Just like world of tanks or clash of clans. Should fix that in a jiffy.
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Post by lephturn on Dec 19, 2016 14:19:39 GMT -5
A tv Ad or 2. Just like world of tanks or clash of clans. Should fix that in a jiffy. Not if they don't have the retention to make it worthwhile. If their average customer value is not high enough, spending more to get a bunch of new customers will just be a way to lose money faster. The lack of tutorial, bad suggestions in game, too fast progression, and rampant clubbing with OP bots and weapons has to be hurting their numbers. Then again they have the numbers and I don't... so maybe the whales (big spenders) more than make up for it. |
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Post by Dredd77 on Dec 19, 2016 14:26:24 GMT -5
A tv Ad or 2. Just like world of tanks or clash of clans. Should fix that in a jiffy. Not if they don't have the retention to make it worthwhile. If their average customer value is not high enough, spending more to get a bunch of new customers will just be a way to lose money faster. The lack of tutorial, bad suggestions in game, too fast progression, and rampant clubbing with OP bots and weapons has to be hurting their numbers. Then again they have the numbers and I don't... so maybe the whales (big spenders) more than make up for it. Exactly. Without much in the way of real data to go on, just hunches, suppositions, and anecdotes, it's the blind men describing an elephant. |
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typewriter
Destrier
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Posts: 61
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Pilot name: Typewriter
Platform: Android
Clan: [Шικ²] ШικΣd
League: Silver
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Post by typewriter on Dec 19, 2016 14:36:48 GMT -5
Just my tiny sample size observation:
recommended it to a bunch of people. 2 of them tried. A friend took my advice and got the $5 gep deal and went on playing sporadically, now at lvl 24. My brother got to lvl 12 and remarked, "fun game, but quite pay-to-win. Those things are invincible at 300m," and quitted.
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 19, 2016 23:39:22 GMT -5
The lack of tutorial, bad suggestions in game, too fast progression, and rampant clubbing with OP bots and weapons has to be hurting their numbers. Then again they have the numbers and I don't... so maybe the whales (big spenders) more than make up for it. Exactly. Without much in the way of real data to go on, just hunches, suppositions, and anecdotes, it's the blind men describing an elephant. ...except that we do have actual data. Clanmates that switched platforms have been reporting low numbers in the lowest tiers. The reviews are quite telling. The low rank on the iOS Top Grossing list is telling. The low influx of players into Silver and Gold tiers is telling. We may not have exact numbers, but we have a significant set of indicators that tell us what the numbers mean. Our poor game of choice is sick, and it's infected with player-chasing symptoms. |
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Post by Super Soaker on Dec 20, 2016 6:04:28 GMT -5
Suddenly I'm being clubbed match after match. do I have too many spare weapons and bots that I'm not using?
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 20, 2016 6:07:18 GMT -5
Suddenly I'm being clubbed match after match. do I have too many spare weapons and bots that I'm not using? Spares don't make a difference. If bronze and silver are suffocating, drop all the way down to low bronze (1/1 Thunder Schutzes) |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 20, 2016 6:17:00 GMT -5
Suddenly I'm being clubbed match after match. do I have too many spare weapons and bots that I'm not using? Spares don't make a difference. If bronze and silver are suffocating, drop all the way down to low bronze (1/1 Thunder Schutzes) whered you get the lvl 1 thunder?? Pixonic!! Hax0r!! |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 20, 2016 6:49:18 GMT -5
Spares don't make a difference. If bronze and silver are suffocating, drop all the way down to low bronze (1/1 Thunder Schutzes) whered you get the lvl 1 thunder?? Pixonic!! Hax0r!! oops. 1/1 Taran Cossack? |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 20, 2016 6:52:04 GMT -5
whered you get the lvl 1 thunder?? Pixonic!! Hax0r!! oops. 1/1 Taran Cossack? nope, tier 2  . Honestly tier 2 (low bronze) is the best place to start though, tier 1 is boring. |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 20, 2016 6:53:00 GMT -5
nope, tier 2 . Honestly tier 2 (low bronze) is the best place to start though, tier 1 is boring. Didn't I say drop to low bronze? |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 20, 2016 6:54:51 GMT -5
nope, tier 2 . Honestly tier 2 (low bronze) is the best place to start though, tier 1 is boring. Didn't I say drop to low bronze? well you said 1/1 bots, so that's obviously referring to tier 1 and not the generic 4/6 cap for low bronze  |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 20, 2016 7:00:01 GMT -5
Didn't I say drop to low bronze? well you said 1/1 bots, so that's obviously referring to tier 1 and not the generic 4/6 cap for low bronze But daddy told me 4/6 was upper limit of high bronze. daddy lied. |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 20, 2016 7:05:28 GMT -5
well you said 1/1 bots, so that's obviously referring to tier 1 and not the generic 4/6 cap for low bronze But daddy told me 4/6 was upper limit of high bronze. daddy lied. daddy was probably talking about medium bots. I don't know. That can't be right anyway, as by that logic 4/9 would be low silver and 4/12 high silver. |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 20, 2016 7:06:23 GMT -5
But daddy told me 4/6 was upper limit of high bronze. daddy lied. daddy was probably talking about medium bots. I don't know. That can't be right anyway, as by that logic 4/9 would be low silver and 4/12 high silver. *throws tantrum* that's exactly what I was going off |
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Dec 20, 2016 9:05:30 GMT -5
What up peeps, Please try to keep the conversation here meaningful and on-topic or I'll have to lock it until we have something productive to talk about again  Merry Christmas! |
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Post by Strayed on Dec 20, 2016 15:06:51 GMT -5
But daddy told me 4/6 was upper limit of high bronze. daddy lied. daddy was probably talking about medium bots. I don't know. That can't be right anyway, as by that logic 4/9 would be low silver and 4/12 high silver. You can't use logic when trying to explain the mm, lol. I'm pretty sure 4/6 is the cap for high bronze unless you go for something crazy like bot level 1 with 2 level 1 punishers and one level 9 magnum. |
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