johnnygrizz
Destrier
Posts: 29
Karma: 40
Pilot name: JohnnyGrizz
Platform: Android
Clan: [+--∞]
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
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Post by johnnygrizz on Dec 9, 2016 10:34:18 GMT -5
After reading this entire thread, I think reading the novel War and Peace doesn't seem so bad to me now.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Dec 9, 2016 12:20:01 GMT -5
What I don't get is why everybody is talking about ELO so much? Greg Lake (RIP) was from ELP, not ELO. I do dig that "Fire on High" song, though.
The spooky thing is that Lake's "I Believe in Father Christmas" was the last song that came up in our Christmas playlist two nights ago, the night before I found out he'd passed away.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 9, 2016 13:11:22 GMT -5
I sincerely hope that is a satirical reference to Electric Light Orchestra. Mr. Elo invented a ranking system that was so good 'they' named it after him, as mentioned previously in this thread.
I would agree this thread is pretty far off track. Then again, most threads seem to wander into MM discussions at some point or another, why fight the tide?
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 9, 2016 13:13:42 GMT -5
Potential player skill can't really factor into this game very much due to the very slow methodical movement in general. There is a great limit on player potential at the moment. The basis of skill in this game is not reaction times but rather positioning and situational/tactical awareness. Just because you don't need to be a Korean addicted to adderall in order to succeed at a game does not mean that that game doesn't require skill. Absolutely. To put it another way, this game isn't about how fast you move, but how smartly you can move. This is less "Quake, played in molasses" and more "Chinese Chess played without turns." |
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 9, 2016 13:19:02 GMT -5
Now, are they called clubbers because: 1. they intentionally field lower level bots so that they can be matched with players with lower SKILL LEVEL, or, 2. they field low level geps, which are grossly underrated by the MM, and to certain extents mags and aphids, so that they can be matched with players with weaker EQUIPMENT? Strayed gave you the history, but I'll bite and answer a bit more directly. Fundamentally, it's the experienced player dropping down to face inexperienced players that is clubbing. The current flaws in the MM happen to also mean that those experienced players can also field far superior equipment, compounding the problem. |
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Dec 9, 2016 13:59:52 GMT -5
acethunder, There is still a huge variance in skill at every level of the game, and it does make a big difference. I've killed many bots 1 on 1 by using tactics such as backpedaling, corner shooting, reload timing and others. A good player will always be at least twice as valuable as an average one. I was going to say exactly this. War Robots is far from a button smash game. There are a variety of tactics (and/or bot and weapon combinations) that can overcome each obstacle. If all you're doing is charging headlong into a Tri Fury or DB, you're doing it wrong. It absolutely matters how you play each map/bot setup/enemy bot. Running straight into a fight without any forethought is the absolute worst way to play this game (and expect to get smoked every game in gold if this is your current strategy). |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 9, 2016 14:25:35 GMT -5
Fundamentally, it's the experienced player dropping down to face inexperienced players that is clubbing. The current flaws in the MM happen to also mean that those experienced players can also field far superior equipment, compounding the problem. I recently started a new account on a new iPad. Even with the limitations of being 'new', my previously gained skills from months of playing on Androids enabled a meteoric rise of my iOS account. The knowledge I gained via clanmates, the wikia, and this here forum enabled me to optimize my equipment and upgrade path and I shred the competition very frequently, even solo with 「dookie」 teammates. Hell, I've taken on other outright farmers and clubbers and mech'd 'em out with my 'inferior' hanger. I am a seal clubber, according to the admin's usage as an umbrella term, with a level 24 account and only a Pina-Gepard and an Orkan-Cossack for P2W options. All this 「female dog」ing about unbalanced equipment matching is certainly valid enough, but in all seriousness, GET GUD. I remember back in the days when I would get accused of using an aim-bot program to cheat on Quake 2 DM. I spent days creating customized console scripts to re-map my keyboard to exactly the way I wanted it. I spent many an hour tweaking my in-game mouse settings until I could execute a perfect 180 degree spin. I would then bait and kite targets into chasing me near some kind of cliff, jump straight off it, spin 180 at the peak of the jump, and then headshot the idiot that was following me. Oh the salty responses... It's not my fault your connection sucks like a black hole, so the reason it looks like the shot came out of my avatar's 「bum-bum hole」 is because of your 「dookie」ty lag. (some of the dumber cheaters would set their aim-bots to full 360 and it would shoot people behind them) Skills matter more than equipment. Perhaps what we need is a solid, back-to-basics beginner tutorial video. With enough polish, we might even get Pixonic to include it on their game announcements. |
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 9, 2016 14:40:44 GMT -5
Fundamentally, it's the experienced player dropping down to face inexperienced players that is clubbing. The current flaws in the MM happen to also mean that those experienced players can also field far superior equipment, compounding the problem. I recently started a new account on a new iPad. Even with the limitations of being 'new', my previously gained skills from months of playing on Androids enabled a meteoric rise of my iOS account. All this ?female dog?ing about unbalanced equipment matching is certainly valid enough, but in all seriousness, GET GUD. The point isn't that noobs do or don't need to learn. The point is that the space for them to learn needs to be kept free of people with far superior abilities so they have the space to do that learning and make mistakes without the slightest mistake leading to them being instantly turned into a puff of rust by a level 30 player with lots of plasma. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 14:43:18 GMT -5
Now, are they called clubbers because: 1. they intentionally field lower level bots so that they can be matched with players with lower SKILL LEVEL, or, 2. they field low level geps, which are grossly underrated by the MM, and to certain extents mags and aphids, so that they can be matched with players with weaker EQUIPMENT? Strayed gave you the history, but I'll bite and answer a bit more directly. Fundamentally, it's the experienced player dropping down to face inexperienced players that is clubbing. The current flaws in the MM happen to also mean that those experienced players can also field far superior equipment, compounding the problem.The underlined essentially means the MM isn't performing its fundamental role, regardless of whether you believe the MM should be based on skill or gear. Of course Pix has been aware of this for a long time but likes the $$$ Gepard sales brought in. Player skill and hangar strength are different factors. Both need to be accounted for in their own way. High skill players should be able to run light or medium hangars without penalty. Not everyone wants to acquire "end game" stuff - personally I think the BritBots look ridiculous and I've already killed enough Rhinos to realize I'm not all that interested in investing my WSP in one. |
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Post by Muhlakai on Dec 9, 2016 14:47:21 GMT -5
I think the BritBots look ridiculous and I've already killed enough Rhinos to realize I'm not all that interested in investing my WSP in one. Before you cast judgement you owe it to yourself to look up some tutorials or games with top players using them. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 15:01:50 GMT -5
I think the BritBots look ridiculous and I've already killed enough Rhinos to realize I'm not all that interested in investing my WSP in one. Before you cast judgement you owe it to yourself to look up some tutorials or games with top players using them. I don't dispute the power of either BritBots or Rhinos. I'm just not fond of the "shield play" mechanic. |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 9, 2016 20:25:33 GMT -5
I personally hate the look of the Lancelot, I'm still saving for one though
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 20:27:16 GMT -5
I personally hate the look of the Lancelot, I'm still saving for one though id recommend 2 Galahads over a Lancelot any day of the week. |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 9, 2016 22:05:22 GMT -5
Yes but I only want one bot
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 22:12:44 GMT -5
Yes but I only want one bot id still recommend galahad  |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 9, 2016 23:03:56 GMT -5
Yes but I only want one bot id still recommend galahad I will eventually, I'm just testing the britbots in the opposite order to what everyone says. |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 9, 2016 23:10:08 GMT -5
id still recommend galahad I will eventually, I'm just testing the britbots in the opposite order to what everyone says. such a rebel. |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 9, 2016 23:13:43 GMT -5
I will eventually, I'm just testing the britbots in the opposite order to what everyone says. such a rebel. I know right, and I level my bots two levels higher then my weps instead of the other way round |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 10, 2016 5:27:00 GMT -5
I know right, and I level my bots two levels higher then my weps instead of the other way round Well I have a 7/4 hydra cossack so boom *cue deal with it glasses* *cue thug lyf edit + MLG music* |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 10, 2016 18:23:23 GMT -5
I know right, and I level my bots two levels higher then my weps instead of the other way round Well I have a 7/4 hydra cossack so boom *cue deal with it glasses* *cue thug lyf edit + MLG music* I'll 1v1 you with my 8/5 noricum destrier m8 By the way I'm starting to think we're going a bit off topic |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 10, 2016 18:28:00 GMT -5
I love how all the reviews on the App Store are negative because these kids can't get what they want now, they have no patience. War Robots is about grinding, and if the grinding's not fun the make it fun!
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Dec 10, 2016 18:33:47 GMT -5
By the way I'm starting to think we're going a bit off topic Yeah, can we please reel it back in a bit? Lol So, uh, where were we? Oh right, matchmaking... |
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Dec 10, 2016 18:36:56 GMT -5
By the way I'm starting to think we're going a bit off topic Yeah, can we please reel it back in a bit? Lol So, uh, where were we? Oh right, matchmaking... I feel there'a always going to be an exploit to the system, there are bound to be clans that still sneak down to lower "leagues" to farm and the game will still be as hard for new players. |
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Dec 10, 2016 18:52:43 GMT -5
Yesterday I downloaded Hearthstone on my phone and played it for a little while. I noticed their game design has a lot of similarities to War Robots's. You do daily quests, collect and craft cards (robots), customize your deck (hangar) and face others in PvP just like you do in this game. Out of curiosity I looked up their MM system and found that they use a pure ELO (skill) based MMR. Their game is fantastic, which is why I don't see why so many people are complaining about how it's not going to work in War Robots. At this point I have a feeling the only people against the change are those who bought 5 gepards and won't be able to have 100% win rates any more. LOL |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Dec 10, 2016 19:18:06 GMT -5
Yesterday I downloaded Hearthstone on my phone and played it for a little while. I noticed their game design has a lot of similarities to War Robots's. You do daily quests, collect and craft cards (robots), customize your deck (hangar) and face others in PvP just like you do in this game. Out of curiosity I looked up their MM system and found that they use a pure ELO (skill) based MMR. Their game is fantastic, which is why I don't see why so many people are complaining about how it's not going to work in War Robots. At this point I have a feeling the only people against the change are those who bought 5 gepards and won't be able to have 100% win rates any more. LOL hearthstone is the reason I suggested refunds after patches/changes to things. When they change a card in hearthstone, you get full dust value back if you disenchant. It works very well in that game so I don't see why it can't be applied to this game. Ps. The ELO system in hearthstone is exploited by conceding matches till you reach bottom rank. Players do this for free ranked wins in order to get their golden heroes or level up a class more easily. |
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Dec 10, 2016 19:30:57 GMT -5
Yesterday I downloaded Hearthstone on my phone and played it for a little while. I noticed their game design has a lot of similarities to War Robots's. You do daily quests, collect and craft cards (robots), customize your deck (hangar) and face others in PvP just like you do in this game. Out of curiosity I looked up their MM system and found that they use a pure ELO (skill) based MMR. Their game is fantastic, which is why I don't see why so many people are complaining about how it's not going to work in War Robots. At this point I have a feeling the only people against the change are those who bought 5 gepards and won't be able to have 100% win rates any more. LOL hearthstone is the reason I suggested refunds after patches/changes to things. When they change a card in hearthstone, you get full dust value back if you disenchant. It works very well in that game so I don't see why it can't be applied to this game. Ps. The ELO system in hearthstone is exploited by conceding matches till you reach bottom rank. Players do this for free ranked wins in order to get their golden heroes or level up a class more easily. Yep, it's called sandbagging and Pixo is looking at ways to prevent (or at least discourage) it. For example, they could easily implement a matchmaking queue penalty for leavers like they do in league of legends. If what you say is true, though, I'm surprised Hearthstone doesn't have any countermeasures against it. The only reason they would do that is if they meant for sandbagging to be part of the game design. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Dec 10, 2016 19:37:03 GMT -5
New (to me) usage of an old word! Thanks <3 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_cue_sports_terms#sandbagsandbag To disguise the level of one's ability to play in various ways such as using a lemonade stroke; intentionally missing shots; making an uneven game appear "close"; purposefully losing early, inconsequential games. Sandbagging is a form of hustling, and in handicapped leagues, considered a form of cheating, as it is used to obtain a low handicap so that a skilled player can later use this rating to improper advantage in more important competitions. This was practiced in the 2012 Olympics by badminton players, resulting in several disqualifications of East Asian players.[1] The term "sandbag" is often applied to other rated tournaments, including chess and Scrabble. See also dump and on the lemonade. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sandbaggingsandbagging When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best. Normally this is because they are too superior, they want to hustle you, or they are too lazy to play their best with nothing on the line. I just beat him the first two games. Should I money match him?
Nah, he was sandbagging. |
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Dec 11, 2016 1:23:52 GMT -5
I hope they hurry up with the new MM, I've just had three games that were so unevenly matched that I got top damage with only around 150,000 damage. The current one is pretty pathetic to put it bluntly.
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Post by SuperHero on Dec 11, 2016 5:13:58 GMT -5
It also has to do with timing sometimes. If ur unlucky to be playing when there are very few folks on, u get clumped together
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Post by lephturn on Dec 11, 2016 9:48:43 GMT -5
Yeah, can we please reel it back in a bit? Lol So, uh, where were we? Oh right, matchmaking... I feel there'a always going to be an exploit to the system, there are bound to be clans that still sneak down to lower "leagues" to farm and the game will still be as hard for new players. Lots of easy fixes. Include player level in MM calves. Level 30 player? Minimum silver tier. Use player level to set a MM floor and you can keep the clubbers out of Bronze. |
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