|
Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 15:45:42 GMT -5
I am starting to lose my faith in humanity... Oooooooh my. Me boyo, you have a LOT of catching up to do. old joke... Q: "What's the problem with winning the Rat Race?" A: "At the end, you're still a Rat."
|
|
|
Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Feb 24, 2017 17:19:02 GMT -5
I recently needed to drop to lower levels of competition for a tutorial series I was working on. For whatever reason you may have to go back down the ladder, it is possible to do so without destroying an entire match for 11 other people. Instead of standing around with your spark plug up your tailpipe in an end game meta bot, hop in a silver grade level 1 bot, throw on some level 1-5 weapons and put in as much effort to win as you normally would. This will keep the integrity of the match intact while putting a hard cap on the amount of damage you can deal (I'm thinking molot/punisher Vityaz & golem here). Maybe you would have a good time beacon capping in a Cossack leaving the damage to your teammates. There are ways to drop the level of competition you are faced with, without resulting to being completely useless or being an untouchable beacon god in your Ancilot vs. destriers and Cossacks. Take the opportunity to demonstrate to new players the difference skill alone can make in the game. I really did have a lot of fun piloting some of my old favorites again and I don't think it would have been nearly as enjoyable to god mode stomp all over newbies. Getting back up the ladder to where I belong is another matter and I feel the need to apologize to those that were mauled by me on my way back up. Many robots were killed and or injured in the making of this tutorial series Just my 2 cents from my recent experience. Good hunting out there pilots! I've actually been the seal in a few matches with you. Even managed to maul you a couple of times from a distance. You ride some very impressive gear. Love it. You tore my butt up pretty darn quick if I dared to close. To me it's just part of the game and I learned not to close with a rogue monk. lol. I'm not upset by being placed in matches like those, it was a pretty mixed bag from bottom to top. Those can be learning experiences for newer players and gives them an incentive to upgrade a quickly as they can. I'd really like to read your tutorial when you finish it. I could use one for sure. I could also use a more active clan if anyone is interested. Thanks for playing with us lowly noobs, ShaolinRogue. I thought it was fun even if some don't.
|
|
|
Post by VivaLaResistance on Feb 24, 2017 18:37:24 GMT -5
When I first started playing the game I noticed these gepard magnums running around from time to time. They sucked, they tore me up. I didn't know any different though. I just thought, well 「dookie」, I need to get those magnums!!!! .....and I kept getting them. At the time they were the gift from god to the game. Now I think I have at least 10 of them but only use 3. Obliviousness can be awesome, all the clubbers did was make me determined to advance and get better.
I agree that clubbers can be a bit of a learning experience for newer players. Most noobs probably aren't active enough in the gaming community (I definitely knew nothing except reading somewhere that you should keep your weapons a few levels higher) to even know something is up.
|
|
poisonelf
Destrier
4 fair matches, not what exists today
Posts: 43
Karma: 10
|
Post by poisonelf on Feb 24, 2017 22:04:55 GMT -5
I think after a full day of playing yesterday, I think tanking is by far a minor infraction in comparison to the upper end of the total disaster mm. Max level Seal Clubbers is the worse injustice to this game. In my 9 and lower bots I did not have a single equal level fair match. I had even a level 2 guy in one match to even stack the odds more for the ENTIRE max level 12 team against us. Even sent in pictures of all level 6 and under on my team in a match against a few max 12 and other top levels. The people thinking that these seal clubbers that farmed low levels or bought their hangers, for some reason deserve stacked matches like this to get gold from all lower level players who do NOT have everything in their hanger max, can go call tanking all day long over this in my opinion. And how, do ya think, did the 12s get to that point of facing y'all? I'd guess.... tanking. But, that's just a guess... maybe there's another way... I am not going to get into a flame war. I will leave it to you to go look up all the old posts on wiki, of gep farming, and all the people saying I just do it to get the the other geps, or just use non gold to farm bronze for gold etc etc. Fact is many farmed gold to pay for the upper hangers. Then whined about what Geps are doing after they got their hangers maxed. Then all the mid level players got everything nerfed they paid for. So what 12s got for farming has been taken away from the rest of the game players, and act like we have to go through something you did, give it up. This is the trouble with many of these terms, what is tanking? If its a squad leaving for everyone getting 6 points, or leaving the game in 29 seconds solo. Playing low level bots, just running beacons, if all these land you at the bottom of loosing team you get -20. Today I sure wished the game had chat, after the match my 9 max was thrown in against a full max team, I would of like to say one thing to a player. "Your 3 bot hanger of level 6 bots with 5/6 weapons, you need to go tank or something to get in a match in your level" My 9's and rest of the team under max, going against full max teams constantly is a mess.I am not like the 12's though, I want fair matches of equal levels, not to be thrown down 6-8-10 levels and pretend nothing is wrong. So now to quote what I have been told by pixonic over all these completely off matches on IOS, "play more with your preferred line-up so the system could put you into a desired tier and you could enjoy satisfactory game play and balance" This while we wait for the league system and diversity planned for the future. My preferred line-up is not level 9 everything against 12 everything on the other team, and far from balance. I am sure the bottom guy in the example above with a three bot hanger didn't think he was in a preferred and balanced match either. So people here trying to farm low levels with max 12's, perhaps you should contact pixonic and ask about people playing what they prefer instead of trying to throw half together max hangers together so they can get railroaded. From what i saw today running the 9's its not the lower people tanking as much as higher level.
|
|
|
Post by shaolinrogue on Feb 24, 2017 22:27:35 GMT -5
I recently needed to drop to lower levels of competition for a tutorial series I was working on. For whatever reason you may have to go back down the ladder, it is possible to do so without destroying an entire match for 11 other people. Instead of standing around with your spark plug up your tailpipe in an end game meta bot, hop in a silver grade level 1 bot, throw on some level 1-5 weapons and put in as much effort to win as you normally would. This will keep the integrity of the match intact while putting a hard cap on the amount of damage you can deal (I'm thinking molot/punisher Vityaz & golem here). Maybe you would have a good time beacon capping in a Cossack leaving the damage to your teammates. There are ways to drop the level of competition you are faced with, without resulting to being completely useless or being an untouchable beacon god in your Ancilot vs. destriers and Cossacks. Take the opportunity to demonstrate to new players the difference skill alone can make in the game. I really did have a lot of fun piloting some of my old favorites again and I don't think it would have been nearly as enjoyable to god mode stomp all over newbies. Getting back up the ladder to where I belong is another matter and I feel the need to apologize to those that were mauled by me on my way back up. Many robots were killed and or injured in the making of this tutorial series Just my 2 cents from my recent experience. Good hunting out there pilots! I've actually been the seal in a few matches with you. Even managed to maul you a couple of times from a distance. You ride some very impressive gear. Love it. You tore my butt up pretty darn quick if I dared to close. To me it's just part of the game and I learned not to close with a rogue monk. lol. I'm not upset by being placed in matches like those, it was a pretty mixed bag from bottom to top. Those can be learning experiences for newer players and gives them an incentive to upgrade a quickly as they can. I'd really like to read your tutorial when you finish it. I could use one for sure. I could also use a more active clan if anyone is interested. Thanks for playing with us lowly noobs, ShaolinRogue. I thought it was fun even if some don't. Glad to hear you approach adversity like a true gamer. I had a similar experience as you and V when I started out. As soon as I had gotten a feel for things I started to encounter tri-mag geps so I ground one out. Rather than assuage my bruised ego by looking for destriers to beat up on, the next step was to seek out and duel experienced Gep pilots, the best way to learn. If you totally pwn me on our first encounter you will have to deal with me coming back for more until I have figured you out or run out of bots. I've been a gamer for over 30 years. Everything from Atari/DOS Mech Warrior/Quake/Doom/UT, Battlefield/COD to more progression based games like WOW and EVE online. Quite often competitively, or at least I always approach it that way. In fact, I found the forum when looking for information on bullets vs. plasma and the first thread I found the poster showed the math he based his opinions on. As soon as I saw people comparing DPM to DPC I instantly knew I had found my new game and community. A constant I have found through every generation and genre of multiplayer game is that there is no better way to improve than to play with people that are more skilled/experienced than you are, playing AGAINST them is even better. I love the test server for that reason and it has really improved me as a player. Personally, I am looking forward to the first time I get my @$$ handed to me by the likes of Phoenix or Stew Pendous. That will be a learning experience to be sure "Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." Sorry to rant like an old fart ~ on the topic of the thread the 2 best ways I have seen to deal with players that do nothing on purpose were both implemented by Blizzard in WOW for battlegrounds. People who don't move for X amount of time get kicked and get 0 benefits. It does not count towards their ranking. Also, your team being able to vote to kick you withing the first 1-2 minutes and a kicked player can be replaced by MM at that time. Not perfect but it would definitely negate standing around not moving and the team vote will get you if you're going to move every once in a while or obviously smurf/sandbag.
|
|
|
Post by Dredd77 on Feb 25, 2017 0:47:35 GMT -5
|
|
LOLDONGS
Destrier
Posts: 31
Karma: 17
Pilot name: LOLDONGS
Platform: iOS
|
Post by LOLDONGS on Feb 25, 2017 18:19:37 GMT -5
According to Oxford, the definition of cheating is:
Gain an advantage over or deprive of something by using unfair or deceitful methods; defraud.
The real question, is tanking unfair or deceitful?
From the perspective of the new player, or noob, Tanking is unfair because when a L12 hangar tanks to the bottom, they face players who have just started the game with Destriders w/ Molots. A minute after the starting shot, they get completely overrun by pay to win players(tankers) which instantly kills their interest to continue the game to begin with. Remember the average attention span of iOS/Android players is extremely short compared to players from other platforms, they will most likely exit the game and return to Candy Crush in order to keep 'winning'.
Deceitful? yes it is extremely deceitful, why?
Imagine playing on a perfect knifer map like Dead City with a well balanced team and even with a majestic Lancelot on your team. You grab the center beacon with a light bot, 3 beacons to 2. After that you die quickly and respawn with a Griffin.
After the 5 min mark has passed, things began to get rocky as one player has used up all of their bots.
It's now a 5v6.
Your oh-so-glorious Griffin explode in a fiery pillar as it gets pulled apart by a couple of Galahads. You respawn, after walking out 100 meters or so, you spot a majestic Lancelot with Ancile and Orkans. You weep with joy as you know it will bring you to victory. Wait! it is not moving! It is immobile as a statue, what the hell?!
It's now a 4v6
Others notice and eject immediately.
What's left is the Lancelot statue and you.
After ejecting angrily, you frantically type "War Robots Forum Rant Section" on Google.
You think to yourself, "Only if that dirty 「illegitimate child」 lancelot did not throw the game!" as you gaze upon the site with a background of the majestic Lancelot that was supposed to answer all of your prayers and dreams.
You crush your Chinese-manufactured plastic mouse with a strength barring of a Rhino as memories of the majestic Lancelot floods your brain. It breaks apart in a million pieces of plastic as you completely trash your expensive Korean computer before you could even visit the Rants section of this wonderful forum.
Is that not deceitful and unfair? I don't know, why don't you ask me?
|
|
bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
|
Post by bearre on Feb 25, 2017 19:15:48 GMT -5
I believe the question is poorly phrased. Tanking is currently not against the rules and it is currently allowed by the devs, (some would even say encouraged).
Tanking does exploit the system to allow a player to get easier matches and thus easier gold. Tanking also leaves ones team short handed and thus is highly annoying to those trying to win the match.
I believe a better question would be: Should tanking be prohibited? Or perhaps: Is ranking acceptable behavior?
At the moment it is not cheating as no rules prohibit it. However for the above states reasons many players would like to see Pix make it against the rules. If that is done then it will by definition be cheating.
|
|
gamingbulldog
Destrier
Posts: 27
Karma: 6
League: Gold
Favorite robot: PLASMAHAD
|
Post by gamingbulldog on Feb 25, 2017 20:28:58 GMT -5
The google definition of cheating is: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. As such, I do believe tanking is cheating. It is unfair and dishonest, not only to those who you crush by tanking but to your teammates while you tank. One the other hand, cheating is generally recognized as acting against the rules. The is not currently any rule against tanking. As someone else said, it is the Letter of the Law vs The Spirit of the Law; however, I believe it is opposite of what they said. I believe that is going off of the Letter of the Law, tanking is cheating because, for the reasons stated above, it is unfair and dishonest and that is the definition of cheating. But, if going off the Spirit of the Law, tanking is not cheating because there is not rule stating it is not allowed and the generally accepted definition of cheating is breaking the rules (Yes, it is a scummy tactic but that's another issue). In the case, I believe we need to go off of the Letter of the Law. Soo...
My Vote Is...
It's Cheating!!!I think you were confused between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Lol Maybe idk but I still agree with what I said just ignore the references to Spirit of Law and Letter of Law
|
|
|
Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 25, 2017 20:35:20 GMT -5
I think you were confused between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. Lol Maybe idk but I still agree with what I said just ignore the references to Spirit of Law and Letter of Law m.youtube.com/channel/UChzLZJo-SxuPHz-oYKAIC_gHey I heard my name?
|
|
gamingbulldog
Destrier
Posts: 27
Karma: 6
League: Gold
Favorite robot: PLASMAHAD
|
Post by gamingbulldog on Feb 25, 2017 20:36:08 GMT -5
But we can compare numbers of victories if you like. No need; I'm sure yours is 12 inches long. You also 'win' this thread, this game, and whatever other virtual victory you demand. Feel better now, cupcake? Back to the original intent of this thread, whether tanking is cheating or not appears to depend on your personal sense of urgency to hold an unfair advantage over the other 11 players in each match. It's difficult to resolve differences in epistemology, but it's easier to first agree on where you disagree. One portion of the community seems to feel it's 'fair' to manipulate the system in order to gain relative advantage over their competition outside of actual gameplay (i.e. matchup advantages), while another portion seems to feel that manipulating the matchmaking system is inherently 'unfair.' Perhaps what constitutes "fairness," rather than the definition of "cheating," should be the focus of any poll? Doesn't it really depend on the end purpose of identifying the mainstream opinion in the first place? Should the forum discourage exploration of all ways to play unfairly, or specifically only of ways that are "cheating" (a definition currently being explored)? Ok, fairness imho is a game where all parties start the round (it may become apparent that some players are more skilled and therefore have an advantage as the round goes on) at more or less the same level (i.e. if you could look at everyone's hangar you could not identify one or more players with a large advantage over the others.)
|
|
|
Post by SuperHero on Feb 25, 2017 20:41:10 GMT -5
This is an excerpt of a PM conversation I had with a member of the forum who debating with me regarding tanking and was also complaining about the mud being slung his way.
This is what I said to him:
"You are not the first person to try to rationalizing exploiting of the system for personal benefit and at the expense of other players.
It is the equivalent of being picked for a pickup game of basketball and then just sitting on the sideline the whole game watching your team lose while playing with a man down.
Others on the old forum even tried to defend home-button connection exploits when the game allowed movement while still being disconnected. It resulted in teleportation and the ability to reload while not being vulnerable to dmg. Eventually Pix changed it. But even that was not considered cheating at that point in time. It WAS an exploit however. And this is why you have had mud slung your way. While not an actual cheat, it is an exploit, and what's worse is that it's at the expense of your own team, not even your reds. At the end of the day, until more game modes come along, this game is a team game. And what you are doing is detrimental to the rest of the team.
As a result, you are in the unfortunate position where what you are doing might not be illegal, but will legitimately anger other players who are victims of your actions and the behavior you are promoting. Emotions are part of the package when playing with and against other humans. If you do not want that, then you should play against NPCs instead."
I also said I do try to protect all users from being flamed, but insisting on promoting tanking makes him an understandable if not legitimate target
|
|
bearre
Destrier
Posts: 122
Karma: 78
Pilot name: Bearre
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Silver
Favorite robot: RDB Griffin
|
Post by bearre on Feb 25, 2017 20:53:01 GMT -5
Tanking is not really "dishonest" as those who do it do not hide their actions,nor deny them. In fact many openly are quite honest about what they are doing. It is also not unfair as all players could do the same as they do. Tanking also does not violate any current rule.
I still find the practice annoying and an exploitation of the game's system. I would very much like to see Pix prohibit the action, but until they do I can't really say it's cheating. I would very much like it to be stopped however.
|
|
|
Post by SATmaster728 on Feb 27, 2017 7:37:41 GMT -5
Tanking is not really "dishonest" as those who do it do not hide their actions,nor deny them. In fact many openly are quite honest about what they are doing. It is also not unfair as all players could do the same as they do. Tanking also does not violate any current rule. I still find the practice annoying and an exploitation of the game's system. I would very much like to see Pix prohibit the action, but until they do I can't really say it's cheating. I would very much like it to be stopped however. the real issue is what people see cheating is. some see it as hacking, others stuff like this.
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Feb 27, 2017 22:03:32 GMT -5
Well then, I'm gonna lock this thread now seeing as it doesn't really have a purpose anymore. Anyone, feel free to create a similar thread with the same topic if you want to continue the discussion. Just make sure it's in rants.
|
|