6pack
Destrier
Posts: 48
Karma: 14
Platform: Both
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Post by 6pack on Feb 22, 2017 14:17:41 GMT -5
I don't really understand the rationale for splitting tanking into "dishonorable or not". What is "honor" in massive multiplayer online game? Additionally "honor" is incredibly culture specific and is applied differently in Western Culture than it is in Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. That’s easy. The rational is so that the “No, but dishonorable” can be counted with the “yes” votes and support the “Change in forum policy on tanking” that they want. Yes, they could simply impose their will but that wouldn’t look good. As for my vote, it’s a straight up No. It’s not cheating and it’s not dishonorable. If it was really a problem as supposedly Pix has commented, they would fix it pretty quick. Look at the Pin issue. Fixed in very short order. As for dishonorable, this is on Pix. Few people want to play against hangars 3+ levels over theirs so if there is a method to lower their rank to play better matched hangars and which doesn’t break any rules, then more power to them. I do find it rather humorous that when the new MM rolled out and people were getting slaughtered game after game and it was affecting their game enjoyment, they were told to “Suck it up buttercup, it will get better” but now that their game time is being affected, now its dishonorable, immoral, cheating, etc.
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 22, 2017 14:21:12 GMT -5
I'm going to start off my post by breaking down tanking into two categories:
Ditch-tanking: Entering match after match and leaving after 30 seconds to get credit for the 0 damage game.
Beacon-tanking(I do this): Entering matches with Ecu light bots and beacon running without doing any damage.
The goal is the same for both, lower your average damage. A common misconception I've seen is that you have to lower your damage and win ratio to tank with the new MM system. The new system works solely off of damage, so you can have 0 average damage and 100% win ratio and be in the lowest tier.
Why I don't ditch-tank: it takes about an hour to ditch-tank all the way down to zero. That's an incredibly boring hour with zero actual gameplay. Not to mention it does slightly ruin the gameplay of your teammates, especially if you aren't the only one doing it.
Why I beacon-tank: it tanks much longer to tank all the way to zero damage, which I usually don't end up doing. You get actual gameplay out of it. Some of which is actually very engaging play if the other team has some beacon runners. Also, I win about 90% of the games doing this, meaning I get an average of 4.5 gold per match.
Why I don't ALWAYS tank: For one, I like variety. Sometimes I want to play different strategies (key-word). I usually never get down to zero because I like to switch back and forth between the two strategies. Secondly, I don't like playing in the lowest tier too long. It's not fair to the OTHER teams. Since I beacon-tank, I'm not ruining my teammates experience. I'm actually all but gauranteeing they can run around like chickens with their heads cut off and still get the satisfaction of a win. What I am doing, is ensuring the opposing team has no chance. Unless I run into other experienced players doing the same thing, the newbies end up with a loss and more than likely don't even understand how or why they got beat so quickly.
The bottom line, however, is that tanking is NOT cheating. No matter how you define the word. It's a strategy, brought about by the well-known factors of the MM system. You are using the known aspects of the game to the best of your ability. The problem with that is, you can effectively get a 12/12 bot going up against destriers and cossacks. So, many people take it too far and absolutely ruin the gameplay of others. But there is no way you can possibly say that it's cheating. It's a strategy that is readily available to follow by every single player that has the game installed on their device. If you call tanking "cheating", you also have to call things like running sideways with a Gareth cheating. Because not everyone knows you can do that to use the shield and speed at the same time. Just because not everyone in the game knows how to do something, or has the skill to do it to its fullest potential, does not make it cheating.
Should people be doing it as much as they are? No. But Pixonic made the matchmaking this way. You can't expect human beings to not use and advantage when it is made so easily available to them.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 22, 2017 14:51:56 GMT -5
I don't really understand the rationale for splitting tanking into "dishonorable or not". What is "honor" in massive multiplayer online game? Additionally "honor" is incredibly culture specific and is applied differently in Western Culture than it is in Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. That’s easy. The rational is so that the “No, but dishonorable” can be counted with the “yes” votes and support the “Change in forum policy on tanking” that they want. Yes, they could simply impose their will but that wouldn’t look good. As for my vote, it’s a straight up No. It’s not cheating and it’s not dishonorable. If it was really a problem as supposedly Pix has commented, they would fix it pretty quick. Look at the Pin issue. Fixed in very short order. As for dishonorable, this is on Pix. Few people want to play against hangars 3+ levels over theirs so if there is a method to lower their rank to play better matched hangars and which doesn’t break any rules, then more power to them. I do find it rather humorous that when the new MM rolled out and people were getting slaughtered game after game and it was affecting their game enjoyment, they were told to “Suck it up buttercup, it will get better” but now that their game time is being affected, now its dishonorable, immoral, cheating, etc. Ya know what.. there is a HUGE difference from the MM getting people sorted (rollout), to people saying "screw it, I don't wanna wait to get sorted... sort this!" then dropping to get clubber matches. The "beacon tanking" as another poster called it, or smurfing, isn't all bad, and in fact, due to the way the points get allocated, may be a legit manual adjustment in many circumstances. That is not the issue. Again, it is the straight up ditching/going afk during the match and leaving your team a bot down, causing the tanker's 12/12 hanger to fall to such lows that you can play many games before seeing any real competition, and possibly causing people who should not get advancement points to raise up, that is the problem. It's like, we can't have a legitimate debate without everything getting twisted. Either way, I took that "suck it up" advice, as well as the "be patient, let Pix sort it," advice that I gave out, myself. I still play with the tankers, instead of rage quitting or saying eff it, since I like the challenge. Not saying that makes me better or worse than anyone, but it deffo doesn't equate to me changing my tone just because I am affected. I have been affected just like everyone else, from the beginning. But it IS a problem and it needs to be addressed. Either way, the main point of this thread, again as I understand it, is to be able to stop the tutorials and how-tos that promote and encourage tanking (hard tanking, dropping loads on all your team, ditching, whatever it is called) as a legitimate strategy. It may be in the game right now, but Pix has stated that it was not an intended design feature and it is to be fixed.
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kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Feb 22, 2017 14:54:49 GMT -5
Dishonorable doesn't mean you are cheating, just means you are an 「bum-bum hole」
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Post by Fishin_Chip on Feb 22, 2017 15:24:02 GMT -5
Can Tanking be considered cheating at the micro level while at the same time just be unethical at the macro level?
If you just consider a battle as the game, gaining an advantage by tanking previous games would be considered cheating as defined by Google "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Of course, Google is hardly the authority on anything, lol.
I don't have an answer, which makes me exactly the same as the other 150 people who have posted here.
I believe it is unethical, but when winning is so important that a person will do anything to win, ethics are usually the first casualty.
I also believe that we got here because Pixonic was trying to please everybody.
Reminds me of a story about a man, a boy and a donkey...
Cheers!
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Post by deadbotwalking on Feb 22, 2017 15:49:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately tanking is not cheating..but it does demonstrate poor sportsmanship by not contributing to the team and reveals poor character by placing your selfish interest over the team. After all this is a team game. If you don't like playing with others find a solo game and play with yourself. When i started this game last Nov, tanking wasn't an issue but recently I've been teamed with them every other game and its just getting irritating. There's no reason to tank when your load out is superior than 60% of the other players. I take out my frustration by giving them a couple of blast as i pass them after a respawn. Maybe Pix will give us an option to give these guys with 0 beacon and 0 damage the finger and it stays in their profile and make it visible to all to see.
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Post by mijapi300 on Feb 22, 2017 16:34:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately tanking is not cheating..but it does demonstrate poor sportsmanship by not contributing to the team and reveals poor character by placing your selfish interest over the team. After all this is a team game. If you don't like playing with others find a solo game and play with yourself. When i started this game last Nov, tanking wasn't an issue but recently I've been teamed with them every other game and its just getting irritating. There's no reason to tank when your load out is superior than 60% of the other players. I take out my frustration by giving them a couple of blast as i pass them after a respawn. Maybe Pix will give us an option to give these guys with 0 beacon and 0 damage the finger and it stays in their profile and make it visible to all to see. Part of why this is such a big deal is that so many people think you have to leave games to tank. When I tank, I win almost every game I play, because I capture 10-12 beacons a game doing 0 damage. That isn't hurting my team. The unethical part is how it ruins the gameplay experience of your opponents. Too many people are dropping out of games after 30 seconds because of either laziness or ignorance. Whichever the cause, it's easy to fix by changing the system so that you don't get credit for games you leave until after three minutes, or the end of the game. That makes it take much longer to tank by leaving, basically making it not worth doing. (It would take about three hours of not getting to play at all in order to tank with a three minute limit).
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Post by moody on Feb 22, 2017 16:57:17 GMT -5
On a completely different topic. If you get missions for workshop points, change them. Gold is much more valuable. (and eventually WSP becomes worthless). As for those work shop chips I really do want a few more of those work shop weapons and bots. And I don't mind taking the easy way to aquire both chips and gold. I hate to say that you completely missed my point. I didn't say to change anything because it was a light bot or beacon mission. For whatever reason, when you get a mission for workshop points you are doing a lot of work and not getting very much. If you changed the mission to 30 gold you would be able to buy more workshop points. It's just a more cost effective and easy way of doing it.
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ashanbhatoa
GI. Patton
I am perfectly fine. I am also happy at the moment
Posts: 135
Karma: 27
Pilot name: DESTROYER_325
Platform: Android
Clan: Spec OP Gamers
League: Bronze
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Stalker
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Post by ashanbhatoa on Feb 22, 2017 19:07:43 GMT -5
I don't think it's cheating but it can be damaging to our community. It's not to be encouraged.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 19:17:44 GMT -5
Don't tell me that someone trying to impose that TANKING IS CHEATING and failed, thus making the third option to rally the opinion of people. I suppose the tinfoil hat/conspiracy theory angle is one way to look at it. Here's another: if admin wanted to "impose" that, it would be imposed. Simple. The fact that the community perspective is being considered is something laudable. I wrote it before, hence I wrote it again. Being a dictator is fun. You can do whatever you want, everybody obeys you. But nobody wants to be viewed as one.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 19:29:50 GMT -5
I can't answer this poll as worded, because I don't consider "tanking" and "ditching" to be anywhere close to the same thing. Ditching a game here or there can happen or be done for all kinds of different reasons, many of which are widely considered completely legit, others of which people have differing opinions on. Tanking, to me, is repeatedly ditching to artificially lower your performance ranking in order to seal club much lower level/skilled opponents. This post brings a new perspective. How anybody (including devs) can determined for sure that a repeated ditching is for lowering performance ranking? Another few possibilities: A. I really wants to play but got very bad connection. So I try, and I try, and kept trying. B. Real life bugs me. You know, run errands for mother, wife called, taking care of kids, boss/superior called, etc. C. I'm too lazy to write it. Be creative and think about it yourself.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 19:34:43 GMT -5
I don't really understand the rationale for splitting tanking into "dishonorable or not". What is "honor" in massive multiplayer online game? Additionally "honor" is incredibly culture specific and is applied differently in Western Culture than it is in Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. Its a play of words. You want people to dislike it but you have no reason for it. Lets just put "honor", something most people take pride in (but most cannot define it). Lol
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 19:37:56 GMT -5
I don't really understand the rationale for splitting tanking into "dishonorable or not". What is "honor" in massive multiplayer online game? Additionally "honor" is incredibly culture specific and is applied differently in Western Culture than it is in Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. That’s easy. The rational is so that the “No, but dishonorable” can be counted with the “yes” votes and support the “Change in forum policy on tanking” that they want. Yes, they could simply impose their will but that wouldn’t look good. As for my vote, it’s a straight up No. It’s not cheating and it’s not dishonorable. If it was really a problem as supposedly Pix has commented, they would fix it pretty quick. Look at the Pin issue. Fixed in very short order. As for dishonorable, this is on Pix. Few people want to play against hangars 3+ levels over theirs so if there is a method to lower their rank to play better matched hangars and which doesn’t break any rules, then more power to them. I do find it rather humorous that when the new MM rolled out and people were getting slaughtered game after game and it was affecting their game enjoyment, they were told to “Suck it up buttercup, it will get better” but now that their game time is being affected, now its dishonorable, immoral, cheating, etc. Hypocrite, the term you were looking for. Lol
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Post by SGT D00M! on Feb 22, 2017 19:43:21 GMT -5
Knock it off, and quit spammimg. We are well aware of your opinion. Now sit down and STFU.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 19:44:08 GMT -5
I'm going to start off my post by breaking down tanking into two categories: Ditch-tanking: Entering match after match and leaving after 30 seconds to get credit for the 0 damage game. Beacon-tanking(I do this): Entering matches with Ecu light bots and beacon running without doing any damage. The goal is the same for both, lower your average damage. A common misconception I've seen is that you have to lower your damage and win ratio to tank with the new MM system. The new system works solely off of damage, so you can have 0 average damage and 100% win ratio and be in the lowest tier. Why I don't ditch-tank: it takes about an hour to ditch-tank all the way down to zero. That's an incredibly boring hour with zero actual gameplay. Not to mention it does slightly ruin the gameplay of your teammates, especially if you aren't the only one doing it. Why I beacon-tank: it tanks much longer to tank all the way to zero damage, which I usually don't end up doing. You get actual gameplay out of it. Some of which is actually very engaging play if the other team has some beacon runners. Also, I win about 90% of the games doing this, meaning I get an average of 4.5 gold per match. Why I don't ALWAYS tank: For one, I like variety. Sometimes I want to play different strategies (key-word). I usually never get down to zero because I like to switch back and forth between the two strategies. Secondly, I don't like playing in the lowest tier too long. It's not fair to the OTHER teams. Since I beacon-tank, I'm not ruining my teammates experience. I'm actually all but gauranteeing they can run around like chickens with their heads cut off and still get the satisfaction of a win. What I am doing, is ensuring the opposing team has no chance. Unless I run into other experienced players doing the same thing, the newbies end up with a loss and more than likely don't even understand how or why they got beat so quickly. The bottom line, however, is that tanking is NOT cheating. No matter how you define the word. It's a strategy, brought about by the well-known factors of the MM system. You are using the known aspects of the game to the best of your ability. The problem with that is, you can effectively get a 12/12 bot going up against destriers and cossacks. So, many people take it too far and absolutely ruin the gameplay of others. But there is no way you can possibly say that it's cheating. It's a strategy that is readily available to follow by every single player that has the game installed on their device. If you call tanking "cheating", you also have to call things like running sideways with a Gareth cheating. Because not everyone knows you can do that to use the shield and speed at the same time. Just because not everyone in the game knows how to do something, or has the skill to do it to its fullest potential, does not make it cheating. Should people be doing it as much as they are? No. But Pixonic made the matchmaking this way. You can't expect human beings to not use and advantage when it is made so easily available to them. Its NOT CHEATING BUT ITS DISHONORABLE. Its DISHONORABLE because you use and implement a better strategy than I could. I have spent time and money in this game but you, a nobody does it better than me. I'm going to rally the masses to hate you! I would also like the devs to banned you! Hahahahhahahahha......... *no offense dude...
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 19:50:13 GMT -5
I don't think it's cheating but it can be damaging to our community. It's not to be encouraged. Please expound upon your reasons for believing that discussing Tanking can damage our community.
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ashanbhatoa
GI. Patton
I am perfectly fine. I am also happy at the moment
Posts: 135
Karma: 27
Pilot name: DESTROYER_325
Platform: Android
Clan: Spec OP Gamers
League: Bronze
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Stalker
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Post by ashanbhatoa on Feb 22, 2017 20:00:54 GMT -5
I don't think it's cheating but it can be damaging to our community. It's not to be encouraged. Please expound upon your reasons for believing that discussing Tanking can damage our community. Well as a result of Tanking. People could become frustrated and leave the Game and the community. As a community you want to grow people leaving a community is the opposite of what a community wants. It's damaging to the game and the community.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 20:11:43 GMT -5
ashanbhatoa That's what I thought you were getting at. Please realize that tanking is cooked into the MM and League system as it now exists. Tanking is rampant and that won't change whether or not we talk about it here. I'd argue that it's better to talk about Tanking here and how tanking can be used to make the game more enjoyable (or best strategies to win 5 vs 6). As opposed to censoring all discussions of tanking and having people quit the game because they don't understand a strategy that is being used by a large segment of players.
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ashanbhatoa
GI. Patton
I am perfectly fine. I am also happy at the moment
Posts: 135
Karma: 27
Pilot name: DESTROYER_325
Platform: Android
Clan: Spec OP Gamers
League: Bronze
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Stalker
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Post by ashanbhatoa on Feb 22, 2017 20:15:37 GMT -5
How do you tag posts. I know it's not relevant sorry.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 20:16:38 GMT -5
ashanbhatoa That's what I thought you were getting at. Please realize that tanking is cooked into the MM and League system as it now exists. Tanking is rampant and that won't change whether or not we talk about it here. I'd argue that it's better to talk about Tanking here and how tanking can be used to make the game more enjoyable (or best strategies to win 5 vs 6). As opposed to censoring all discussions of tanking and having people quit the game because they don't understand a strategy that is being used by a large segment of players. But...but....tanking is dishonorable.... Why discuss something that is dishonorable? You want to be forced to commit seppuku? Lol *by the way, why are you following me?
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 20:18:57 GMT -5
*by the way, why are you following me? I'm just really enjoying all your posts. I don't want to miss one.
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Post by stygianumbra on Feb 22, 2017 21:20:45 GMT -5
If you call tanking cheating, everyone who said using gepards to farm newbies pre changes was NOT cheating need to eat their words. As everyone at that point surely pointed out, no such rule exists therefore it cannot be considered cheating.
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Post by moody on Feb 22, 2017 21:42:00 GMT -5
If you call tanking cheating, everyone who said using gepards to farm newbies pre changes was NOT cheating need to eat their words. As everyone at that point surely pointed out, no such rule exists therefore it cannot be considered cheating. Plenty of people considered that cheating. Plenty of old threads about it if you search.
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Post by Strayed on Feb 22, 2017 22:00:07 GMT -5
I don't really understand the rationale for splitting tanking into "dishonorable or not". What is "honor" in massive multiplayer online game? Additionally "honor" is incredibly culture specific and is applied differently in Western Culture than it is in Russia, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.. That’s easy. The rational is so that the “No, but dishonorable” can be counted with the “yes” votes and support the “Change in forum policy on tanking” that they want. Yes, they could simply impose their will but that wouldn’t look good. As for my vote, it’s a straight up No. It’s not cheating and it’s not dishonorable. If it was really a problem as supposedly Pix has commented, they would fix it pretty quick. Look at the Pin issue. Fixed in very short order. As for dishonorable, this is on Pix. Few people want to play against hangars 3+ levels over theirs so if there is a method to lower their rank to play better matched hangars and which doesn’t break any rules, then more power to them. I do find it rather humorous that when the new MM rolled out and people were getting slaughtered game after game and it was affecting their game enjoyment, they were told to “Suck it up buttercup, it will get better” but now that their game time is being affected, now its dishonorable, immoral, cheating, etc. Actually, the reason why was because I wanted this post to accurately reflect the opinions of the forum. That, plus a number of people saying that while they did not think tanking was cheating but that it was a ?wee-wee? move was what incentivized me to put that option on the poll. Quite frankly, if I really wanted to ban discussions of tanking no matter what, then I would've conversed with my peers and done it already, we don't have to care about you guys' opinions. And in addition to that, I would've tried to influence the results however I could, meaning that I would not be taking a neutral stance currently. So how about this, why don't you stop this idiotic "literally oppression" fantasy you're having and stay on topic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:05:10 GMT -5
Well, in the spirit of the rule says that cheating in-game could result in a ban.
Strayed, I think if you found out that someone hacked War Robots, they would get the boot. Same if they were actively discussing and promoting it.
The clubbing in the lower tiers very similar to tanking. If you didn't feel the need to ban users that were recruiting people in clubber clans, or players that were talking about clubbing, I don't think a ban is necessary.
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Post by Strayed on Feb 22, 2017 22:05:49 GMT -5
I suppose the tinfoil hat/conspiracy theory angle is one way to look at it. Here's another: if admin wanted to "impose" that, it would be imposed. Simple. The fact that the community perspective is being considered is something laudable. I wrote it before, hence I wrote it again. Being a dictator is fun. You can do whatever you want, everybody obeys you. But nobody wants to be viewed as one. So how am I a dictator if I listen to my fellow mods and admins and we decide things based on popular vote? Last I checked, you had to be a single, all powerful ruler in order to be a dictator. Sounds like you need to pay more attention in school, mate.
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Post by Strayed on Feb 22, 2017 22:06:57 GMT -5
Well, in the spirit of the rule says that cheating in-game could result in a ban. Strayed, I think if you found out that someone hacked War Robots, they would get the boot. Same if they were actively discussing and promoting it. The clubbing in the lower tiers very similar to tanking. If you didn't feel the need to ban users that were recruiting people in clubber clans, or players that were talking about clubbing, I don't think a ban is necessary. Yup, but then again, tanking is a special case as it is not playing normally in the game. Which is why I want the opinion of everyone on the forum rather than just deciding it with my fellows.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 22, 2017 22:48:39 GMT -5
Yup, but then again, tanking is a special case as it is not playing normally in the game. Which is why I want the opinion of everyone on the forum rather than just deciding it with my fellows. Totally disinterested neutral grey-walker here... Surely the admin that started such a thread fully realized he would be creating a firestorm of opinion sharing. 10 Pages as I clicked the reply button this time. But what I'd really like to say is the rest of you keep getting off topic. The intention if this thread is to find the pulse of the community on a specific subject. It is NOT here for anybody to attempt to convince anybody else of anything. Share your opinion if you haven't already, and make all the wall-o-text points you want. But take your petty posturing and forum-warrior-ing (ironic, yes) and logical fallicies and general 「bum-bum chapeau」tery, and shove it up your waste orifice, preferably sideways, via another thread. Now please move the flying hell along and leggo some ego. I've already said my peace. On.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 22:57:16 GMT -5
Strayed Quick question, is it considered cheating to make 20 forum accounts just to vote that Tanking is not cheating?
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Post by launchpad on Feb 22, 2017 22:58:18 GMT -5
I wrote it before, hence I wrote it again. Being a dictator is fun. You can do whatever you want, everybody obeys you. But nobody wants to be viewed as one. So how am I a dictator if I listen to my fellow mods and admins and we decide things based on popular vote? Last I checked, you had to be a single, all powerful ruler in order to be a dictator. Sounds like you need to pay more attention in school, mate. Even a godfather have consigliery(ies). And as a wrote before, everyone likes the power of a dictator BUT nobody wants to be viewed as one. Therefore you created election and referendum with predetermined choices which always results in favour of the dictator. And off course, seeing as a democratic leaders raise your favour in the eyes of developers since they already hotlinking this lovely forum of yours to the game itself. Anyone can argue that whatever popular opinions raised here is the solid opinion of gamers, which developers take into account. We are not living in a stone age where abuse of power is forcing someobe to do as the king says or will be killed. Where democracy and freedom of speech are highly regarded in general society, influencing and directing, thus manipulating public opinion is more effective in imposing a will. Oh well, its not a schooll level anyway. Maybe if you went to university you may understand it. Lol.....
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