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Post by Strayed on Feb 19, 2017 18:41:48 GMT -5
I believe that we, as a community, really need to come to a head here. Is tanking cheating or not? Not whether you like the new mm or not, but whether or not tanking is cheating. And, of course, this will change our forum policy on tanking as well.
The forum has been utterly clogged with posts about tanking lately. I hope that we will be able to solve that issue in this thread.
Also, no flaming. Blastronaut, Rockwelder, that means both of you.
Post your opinion along with your reasoning below, votes will be counted on 2/28/17.
I will abstain from voting for now as I want to stay neutral here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 18:55:12 GMT -5
Theres a generic saying about asking questions like this, "If you have to ask, it probably is".
I think also an equal, or even worse issue, is screwing over your team, and potentially making them lose the match!
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Post by Strayed on Feb 19, 2017 18:56:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I just want to see what the community thinks. I already have my opinion in my head, but I won't be sharing it for now as to not influence people.
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phoenix232
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Post by phoenix232 on Feb 19, 2017 18:58:11 GMT -5
I abhor tanking. I think it's a despicable act, and it ruins the game for everyone. Dishonorable as it comes. Is it cheating, however? No, I don't think it's cheating..
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Post by tectonic on Feb 19, 2017 19:00:39 GMT -5
No tanking is not cheating. It is not against any in-game rules.
That being said it does cheepen yours and others gaming experience. If you have to leave 5 games just so you can feel better about yourself when you win th games you actually participate in, you have ruined 25 other players experience just for your own selfish reasons. That's just not cool.
Definitely should be frowned upon
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Post by Paps on Feb 19, 2017 19:05:12 GMT -5
I don't think it's cheating. BUT it's 100% a scuzzy thing to do. Any conflict, be it historical or fictional is full of examples of 'gaming the system' to get an edge. In the real world, I understand why it's done. In games, not so much. There's no actual permanent downside to dying in a game like War Robots. So you didn't win... BFD. Load up another match and try again. Don't be a peckerhead and ruin everyone else's game cause you need the ego boost of winning all the time(when you actually do play).
Long story short. Is tanking cheating? I don't think so. Is tanking a scumbag tactic? Absolutely. Personally, I think it boils downs to a 'Letter of the Law' versus 'Spirit of the Law' argument. I'll let the internet lawyers among us argue it out from here, just adding my opinion because it was asked for.
Edit: Is a poll in the works? Some folks may have an opinion but not wanna type it out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 19:10:22 GMT -5
Its not cheating. It is exploiting the system, like clubbing.
I don't have as much of a problem with tankers as I do with ditchers.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Feb 19, 2017 19:19:49 GMT -5
It is selfishly being a terrible teammate for the purpose of gaming the system (and as such, I support penalizing it), but I do not consider it cheating.
I think it skirts the line more closely than clubbing, however, as I think it is more clearly against the spirit of the rules and more analogous to behavior that other games and sports crack down upon very heavily. So, I believe that this game should as well. But until they do, it's not cheating.
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Feb 19, 2017 19:31:23 GMT -5
In a way it is cheating, lowering your damage and win percentages just so you can play against lower level people is the cheating part.. The people who now have to play these people are cheated on, the players that played with them while they tanked are cheated on.
However, frustration with the system and not able to compete because they dont have the money to upgrade to higher levels, they have been cheated on by Pixonic.
I have ss proof however, that shows players of a top clan who squaded with high level bots and weapons and they all tanked together. What are these 12/12 guys doing? CHEATING
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Feb 19, 2017 19:33:37 GMT -5
Its not cheating. It is exploiting the system, like clubbing. I don't have as much of a problem with tankers as I do with ditchers. * sigh * Exploiting IS cheating They literally have the same meaning Anyway, for my vote... YES!
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Post by ChillyTempurrrrr on Feb 19, 2017 19:38:51 GMT -5
I play War Robots for fun (lie) I play war robots to beat the living sense out of everyone I see (except allies of course)((truth))
Tanking is making game unfair (lie)I want to win this but these pieces of sh*t keep leaving(truth)
leave 3 games in a row=ban
that was the long-ish answer
short answer It is basically match fixing
shorter answer
YES
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 19, 2017 19:47:18 GMT -5
I vote no. I don't see any difference fundamentally between players who willfully leveled their bots a certain way to gain an advantage over other players in their tier, and players who willfully drop their rating. They are both a manipulation of the old and new MM respectfully, and while the latter may be a more extreme form, I don't think you can call one cheating and the other not. To me, cheating means going outside the bounds of the game to gain an advantage, like 3rd party software to speed hack or manipulate ones connection for example. So while many users may not be happy about people tanking, I think it's a step too far to call it an outright cheat.
Besides that, if test server is an indication of things soon to come, it looks like tanking will be impossible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 19:52:21 GMT -5
Just ban it from the forum already...
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Feb 19, 2017 20:03:26 GMT -5
Not chiming in. Everyone knows what I think of it.
Excellent idea Strayed ...
Update: Changed my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 20:04:37 GMT -5
Its not cheating. It is exploiting the system, like clubbing. I don't have as much of a problem with tankers as I do with ditchers. * sigh * Exploiting IS cheating They literally have the same meaning Anyway, for my vote... YES! Exploiting is not cheating. Cheating is bypassing game mechanics in order for you to have an unfair advantage over others, like teleporting and unlimited health.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Feb 19, 2017 20:06:32 GMT -5
Exactly what is "tanking"? I never drop out of games after they have started unless there is a bad connection or some moron/s doing their very best to ruin my game experience. I often get out before the match starts because I just don't like the maps I've been handed. We need more maps and an option to choose where we want to play. In a real world battle you would want maps and a modicum of intel on the terrain you are going to be on so you can gear up properly. Lately I've had several games where a player or players on my team follow me around shooting at me continuously. Then blocking my shots by driving directly into my line of fire or running into me while I'm shooting. These aren't accidents or regular clumsy gameplay. I've tried moving away from them and they just follow me and keep it up. They aren't even shooting at the other team, just me. I've been frustrated enough I've even done it back to them but that wasn't very satisfying. And it just made me look as stupid as they were acting. So yeah, I will drop a match like that. But it doesn't make me feel good at all leaving the rest of my team a man down. But we were already a man or more down from the start. ?
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Post by SlowReflexes on Feb 19, 2017 20:06:53 GMT -5
It's incredibly bad sportsmanship, and anyone doing it should be ashamed of their own behavior.
It's not cheating in any way.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Feb 19, 2017 20:12:23 GMT -5
* sigh * Exploiting IS cheating They literally have the same meaning Anyway, for my vote... YES! Exploiting is not cheating. Cheating is bypassing game mechanics in order for you to have an unfair advantage over others, like teleporting and unlimited health. The two of you are arguing over two different senses of 'exploiting' and one of you is conflating the two. There's a difference. Exploiting is commonly used in the sense of taking advantage of a bug, an actual software defect to cause a system to behave in ways it wasn't designed to. That would be cheating. It's *not* what is happening here. In the more general sense, exploiting is just 'using'. That's what tanking is. It uses the rules, without breaking any, and your fellow players to gain personal advantage at others' expense. It's obnoxious, selfish to the point of sociopathy, but it's LEGAL. Once again, welcome to real life.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 19, 2017 20:16:19 GMT -5
Currently Pixonic doesn't consider tanking to be cheating or a violation of its ToS, so I don't understand why the wiki forum would regard it differently.
I vote no.
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Post by NokiaSåmsung on Feb 19, 2017 20:19:56 GMT -5
I don't define it as cheating but I do not endorsed it either.
(Tanking to me means quitting the game intentionally, games after games. Playing only cossack ecu for example, I do not consider it as tanking, but a choice of play...a strategy)
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Feb 19, 2017 20:31:09 GMT -5
I hit a win rate of 64% early yesterday, yay. But then for the next 50 or so games I was unable to finish in the top 3 of a winning side.
I was chasing a top 3 finish for the daily challenge so I persisted but all day I was out of my league. I got there in the end by top 3ing on the losing team, my game improved, so did the bots in my hanger.
Tanking isn't cheating, it's just the easy way out.
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 19, 2017 20:45:20 GMT -5
I don't condone it and I myself have done it to try to figure out how the new MM works. Much as I disliked the mag geps of old, I was against ostracizing them--I found this forum because of the mag gep.
So I say let 'em tank. I suspect the new MM will eventually pit tanker against tanker anyway so we'll likely see an equilibrium of sorts. So within both REDs and BLUEs you'll have the ones scoring, say, in 400K all the way down to 30K. This may actually mean more gold/silver for you. I mean, really, what's the difference between a tanker who leaves after capping 4 beacons and a pilot who stay in a Zenith Natty the entire game?
Tanking and clubbing isn't like clubbing with mag gep before. To do that, you simply switched to a different hangar which took a minute perhaps to set up. On the other hand, tanking and then clubbing takes quite a bit more dedication and frankly the tediousness makes it rather unsustainable.
Bear in mind also that some people tank so they can play with bots and loadouts that the new MM has rendered useless.
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Post by suntron on Feb 19, 2017 21:08:02 GMT -5
Not cheating but not good for the game. It is an issue Pix need to fix. Any behaviour that is rewarded will grow, in this case it is the only way to get a meaningful amount of gold per day. They change that and it goes away. Clash of clans had a similar problem but they fixed it with a duel level and league matching plus giving more rewards for players in higher Leagues and those playing against equal opponents.
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Feb 19, 2017 21:14:59 GMT -5
I change my vote from yes to no But i still think guys with 12/12 setups tanking so they get easier games, gaining easier cups to stay on top in a clan ranking is ... Ch**t**g But I agree with booboo unless you manipulate the game with some kind of software, and pixonic doesn't regard it as cheating, then technically I guess it is not.
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Feb 19, 2017 21:16:33 GMT -5
Supposed to say boobookitty..lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 21:26:35 GMT -5
I always play a match like it is the last one I will ever play. To help 5 other people I will never meet in real life to accomplish a set goal, to win, whether I finish in position 1 through 6, I have given my best. Losses aren't nice, but I hit To battle again and again I try my best trying to help 5 other people win. I was taught not to quit.
Since there seems to not be any rule against it, it is not cheating. A shortcut, a glitch in the software that is abused .
Edit: After reading a post by Strayed farther down this thread, I found it necessary to remove my personal feelings from this post. He asked a simple question and I let the way I was raised enter into it. That was wrong. But what formed my opinion to make the decision. Not here to suggest what anyone else should do or how they choose to play a game.
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Post by truechill on Feb 19, 2017 21:39:08 GMT -5
No, It is a failure of the system. Pix failed to account for the greedier side of human nature and selfish individuals. The players who tank are simply doing what is in their best interest.
The burden is on Pix to learn how to design a system that has the right incentives to encourage players to play to the best of their ability, and the right punitive measures to discourage exploitation. Don't hate the player, hate the game ... designers ...
I wasn't part of the Gepard club (don't even own one), and I don't tank (yet...) but I understand why players do and I don't blame them. At the moment I have a little over a 60% win rate but I rarely win AU. I capture beacons and kill enough bots to help secure the win but that is a fruitless tree. I see people exploiting the system and they are winning AU. Given the rules and system in place tanking seems to be a better strategy than playing with integrity.
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Post by moody on Feb 19, 2017 21:48:00 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that tanking hurts those playing the game around you, both on the way down and on the way back up.
As such I consider it cheating the system and poor sportsmanship. I also consider a game won too easily to be no fun. (Having been on a squad side against reds with three tankers).
So yes, I vote cheating.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 21:51:16 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that tanking hurts those playing the game around you, both on the way down and on the way back up. As such I consider it cheating the system and poor sportsmanship. I also consider a game won too easily to be no fun. (Having been on a squad side against reds with three tankers). So yes, I vote cheating. I think that is referred to as ditching. Tanking is LOWERING your damage output in the battle usually by capping beacons only (and sometimes standing idle) Ditching is intentionally leaving matches after you shot a bit at the enemy or capped a beacon.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 19, 2017 21:51:17 GMT -5
There is no way to end the debate of morals versus ethics. In this case, it is "the game allows it" versus "poor sportsmanship". When Pixonic changes the system in such a way as to prevent or punish a specific type of activity, the ethical side of the debate will be over. I cannot help you decide, I follow my own code. -(/-\)-
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