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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 6:21:07 GMT -5
Hello, guys. Of course, I am the all-knowing, widely acclaimed, omnipotent expert in WarRobots Universe. Thank you, all, you can just call me Russel. However, even I was puzzled by a robot called Raijin, so I would humbly accept your reasonable input on this one. I can say that I am little bit biased here, due to the following facts: 1) I just LOVE Raijin's design. Imho it's awesome. Only Fujin is awesomer (can I say that? Or should I use "more awesome"? Oh, by the way, did you knew that originally, both " awful" and " awesome" had the meaning of being awe-inspiring (including positive connotations), as well as "worthy of, or commanding, profound respect or reverential fear"?) Oops, sorry, drifted off-topic here. 2) I got Mitsudomoe Raijin from the event, and another Raijin from a chest. So I got two of them almost for free, and free stuff can't be bad, right? Finally moving to the question: Is Raijin really really useless?I manged to kill Raijins with my Leo, with my RDB (prior to buff), with TuluDoc (prior and after the buff), and today I killed Thunder\Zeus Raijin on Canyon with my Doc. It's all good and games, but the fact is my Orkans are 6,6,7,8, and Doc is lvl5, and Raijin was 8\8. Seriously, but c'mon. How underleveled guy could destroy mobile fortress in a Canyon Standoff? Really? And I could never pilot Raijin good. The main drawbacks are: - Too slow, take ages to move into position (not talking even about trying to dodge something)
- Clunky legs, you get stuck easily
- Somewhat underpowered to my liking
- Weapon slots are way far apart from each other to be effectively used in close fight, and
- Legs are mounted so wide that corner shooting is a joke
- Big frame, collect ALL the bullets from the battlefield
- Bastion mode is very slow to turn on\off
- Once in Bastion and under fire - you cannot retreat due to p.1, p.6, p.7
- Shields are far too narrow, could be flanked and shot right in the belly
So, as my experience in a game is limited to D2 League on iOS, I would like to hear opinions of guys from Android Gold2+ and\or Diamond iOS:
What am I doing wrong, and\or is this bot really really really suck and even Natasha\Carnage is better?
(ah, well, this IS the correct and final question) |
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Post by acdcfan on Jun 10, 2017 6:30:34 GMT -5
you're not doing anything wrong. What you need to know that after a last update orcans, pins, pinatas and tulumabs have been buffed up to deal more damage.
that is the reason why they go down rather quickly...Same for lancelot and ancilot ( once ancile is depleted)
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 6:44:03 GMT -5
you're not doing anything wrong. What you need to know that after a last update orcans, pins, pinatas and tulumabs have been buffed up to deal more damage. that is the reason why they go down rather quickly...Same for lancelot and ancilot ( once ancile is depleted) I can reassure you that Orkans now deal less DPS, so theoretically Raijin is now harder to kill 1-on-1 with Orkans, but that's not the issue here. I was trying to find Raijin's niche from this March (TestServer, youtube videos, forum, wiki) and can't find one. |
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Post by acdcfan on Jun 10, 2017 6:48:16 GMT -5
you're not doing anything wrong. What you need to know that after a last update orcans, pins, pinatas and tulumabs have been buffed up to deal more damage. that is the reason why they go down rather quickly...Same for lancelot and ancilot ( once ancile is depleted) I can reassure you that Orkans now deal less DPS, so theoretically Raijin is now harder to kill 1-on-1 with Orkans, but that's not the issue here. I was trying to find Raijin's niche from this March (TestServer, youtube videos, forum, wiki) and can't find one. I thought all of them were buffed up.. All increased damage to about of 15%. |
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Post by Paps on Jun 10, 2017 6:49:56 GMT -5
I found Raijin's niche, Russel.  |
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 6:58:55 GMT -5
I can reassure you that Orkans now deal less DPS, so theoretically Raijin is now harder to kill 1-on-1 with Orkans, but that's not the issue here. I was trying to find Raijin's niche from this March (TestServer, youtube videos, forum, wiki) and can't find one. I thought all of them were buffed up.. All increased damage to about of 15%. Damage was increased for Orkan, but firerate was decreased. Damage increased +15% at lvl12 Firerate decreased -17% (from 10 rps to 8.3 rps) Burst DPS drops slightly, approximately -5% from 14,270 to 13,612 for lvl12 Cycle DPS, however, increased +15% from 1,742 to 1,951 for lvl12 And for other weapons it's different. Tulu\Pin was definitely buffed; Punishers\Molots were significantly nerfed; for Pinata it's controvesrial. You can always check the wiki ;) warrobots.wikia.com/wiki/OrkanSo now Orkan Doc vs Thunder Raijin is worse for Doc. But again, situation was about the same prior to rebalance. |
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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on Jun 10, 2017 7:43:36 GMT -5
Short and Sweet, Raijin is a long/mid ranger, absolutely pathetic anywhere else.
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Post by psyflex on Jun 10, 2017 9:27:13 GMT -5
Russel: I'm only in Gold III, but i hope you don't mind adding my 2 cents  I think the Rajin is useful to hold a beacon. I've put an Ancile and a Thunder on it and parked it at a specific beacon for the whole match or until i got killed. I would prefer to put a Zeus instead of a Thunder on it, but i don't have one. It is important to park the Rajin at beacon, that give some additional cover (eg. center beacon under the bridge or home beacon on moon using the surrounding pillars as extra shields or on powerplant the beacon which is surrounded by walls - the one next to the ship beacon). It is very important to have at least 1 bodyguard, being on your own just delays the enemy a bit until you get smashed. And the shield always has to face the red with the toughest plasma shots. I managed to hold a beacon for the whole match all alone too a few times, but that only worked, because the reds were all weak. So in the end, the Rajin will die, but sometimes the reds avoid the Rajin, if it takes too long to kill it. My best match was when a Fujin joined me to defend a beacon. Nobody could get our combined Anciles down (mine was only L5) and the Fujin shredded every attacker in a very short amount of time, while he positioned himself, so that he could benefit from my physical shields. Hope one day i can find out, how good my Rajin is, when it's L12 along with the Ancile and the weapon (which will probably be a Zeus).
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Post by Alanbit on Jun 10, 2017 9:37:05 GMT -5
Russel, my wife just wanted a Fujin o Raijin as they came out to the shop, but list of priorities placed them at the end of it. Recently she had a buch of WP saved and really enjoyed her trebuchet gecko Leo, so I suggested her to upgrade the trebuchet she earned at the event and buy a raijin. She has done so few days ago, and she is delighted. She spreads death and destruction with her double trebuchet and raijin's shield protects her against enemy's snipers trying to stop her. I say, long distance, wonderful, any other range, well, you gave enough arguments to not to do so
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 10:21:21 GMT -5
Russel : I'm only in Gold III, but i hope you don't mind adding my 2 cents :) I think the Rajin is useful to hold a beacon. I've put an Ancile and a Thunder on it and parked it at a specific beacon for the whole match or until i got killed. I would prefer to put a Zeus instead of a Thunder on it, but i don't have one. It is important to park the Rajin at beacon, that give some additional cover (eg. center beacon under the brion moon using the surrounding pillars as extra shields or on powerplant the beacon which is surrounded by walls - the one next to the ship beacon). It is very important to have at least 1 bodyguard, being on your own just delays the enemy a bit until you get smashed. And the shield always has to face the red with the toughest plasma shots. I managed to hold a beacon for the whole match all alone too a few times, but that only worked, because the reds were all weak. So in the end, the Rajin will die, but sometimes the reds avoid the Rajin, if it takes too long to kill it. My best match was when a Fujin joined me to defend a beacon. Nobody could get our combined Anciles down (mine was only L5) and the Fujin shredded every attacker in a very short amount of time, while he positioned himself, so that he could benefit from my physical shields. Hope one day i can find out, how good my Rajin is, when it's L12 along with the Ancile and the weapon (which will probably be a Zeus). Thank you for sharing experience! I added note about leagues actually due to one funny thing not many people know at the beginning, and now that you shared you opinion in very detailed and good way - I will tell you little secret :) When you upgrade your bots/weapons they actually NOT upgraded at the same rate. As a classical example - lvl5 Schutze with lvl12 Thunder will murder lvl12 Schutze+lvl5 Thunder 100 times out of 100 (given that pilot skill is the same). However. This is not true for lower levels at all. It was done to compensate lack of experience for new player - at lower levels game is more forgiving, you can take a lot of hits and still be happily running around. This leads to some confusion for new players - they tend to value durability more than damage - for example, saying that "Carnage is too weak", or "Rogatka should have some shield or more hp". That is not true, because the higher the level - there more painful hit is, and the more is the price of a mistake, up to the point of even single salvo kill (think or Trebuchet Butch or Orkan/Pinata Griffin). But where is the turning point, exactly, you might ask? And I would tell you that it really kicks in at lvl 8~10, depending on a weapon. So my initial concern was that players who were riding level 5-6 Raijin would feel invincible against weapons lvl5-6; but this changes drastically once your enemies would take weapons to 8+, and there would be no more place for bulky underpowered bots anymore. |
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inspirace
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Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 10, 2017 10:30:56 GMT -5
I once met at the powerplant B beacon, a Raijin parked with an ancile and a thunder. with a thunder carnage, I tried to go rush around it and shoot from the side, but its legs completely blocked the narrow alley. my carnage got stumbled only to shoot the shields and went down. I went back with a plasma galahad to B. since we were loosing at beacon bar (plus a bit lost my mind thinking of vengence), I charged into it instead of corner-shooting. I thought it's shield should have been weakened by the thunder carnage. the thing is, a PDB griff joined it and start shooting from behind it. so plasmahad down too. they defended the beacon until the end, and got killed only after they came out from the alley when none of our team approached the beacon. the only time I was somewhat impressed by a Raijin, and that was way before the rocket buff. teaming with an ally to defend a post may be a good use of it - but not sure in this rocket world, edit: realized that PP B already mentioned above. well, this will be just another case study  |
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 10:38:41 GMT -5
I once met at the powerplant B beacon, a Raijin parked with an ancile and a thunder. with a thunder carnage, I tried to go rush around it and shoot from the side, but its legs completely blocked the narrow alley. my carnage got stumbled only to shoot the shields and went down. I went back with a plasma galahad to B. since we were loosing at beacon bar (plus a bit lost my mind thinking of vengence), I charged into it instead of corner-shooting. I thought it's shield should have been weakened by the thunder carnage. the thing is, a PDB griff joined it and start shooting from behind it. so plasmahad down too. they defended the beacon until the end, and got killed only after they came out from the alley when none of our team approached the beacon. the only time I was somewhat impressed by a Raijin, and that was way before the rocket buff. teaming with an ally to defend a post may be a good use of it - but not sure in this rocket world, edit: realized that PP B already mentioned above. well, this will be just another case study ;) Here is a bad thing about such strategy - TWO bots defending one beacon. And at least one of them could not relocated to defend another beacon fast enough, meaning that reds are down 4 to 6, or at least 5 to 6 on the map. And you can pull same "beacon hog" with Ancilot + Plasmahad, or even Carnage + Rhino; it would still be more of an advantage due to mobility of a such squad. More than that, Lance/Rhino could also pull same trick on the move due to specifics of their shield, so you basically can perform "siege tank+bunke+turret" strategy from SC, if you know what I mean. |
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 10:43:36 GMT -5
Short and Sweet, Raijin is a long/mid ranger, absolutely pathetic anywhere else. Yeah, I once saw Zeus Raijin pretty good on Springfield. But it's better NOT to take a hit (think Zeus Carnage), than to be able to take it. As for long range - in Diamond people learn safe travel path on map very fast, so snipers must relocate all the time. Natty/Carnage is far better at this, and cheaper to buy/upgrade, too. So if the question would be: "I MUST use Raijin, what's his suitable use?" I would say you hit the bullseye. But I am thinking more of an area, where Raij is the best of them all, and can't find it yet. |
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jun 10, 2017 10:50:38 GMT -5
The rajin faces multiple problems. It has a big body, which is slow and clumsy, and makes it a huge target. But The worst thing about it is, its inability to move when in bastion mode. Now it has its shields up - but it just sits there. Sooner or later it'll die. Yes sometimes it it takes a while but the end is inevitable.
Point blank: anything you can put on a rajin, your better off putting it on a carnage(or Natasha/fury).
I have one at level 8, and thunders worked best for me. But then I discovered the thunder carnage, and once i rushed in somebody's back blazing my thunders ( most fun is if you alternate shots) and the enemy only realized what hit him with the last shot - rajins out forever.
Or just look at the terror of a Zeus carnage. Running around so fast you can't hit it and can't hide from it..
Carnage's got to be level 9 though ! I didn't believe it but it sucked so hard before it, once its level 9 it's really another robot !
Edit: which is really a shame, I liked my rajin! First wsp bot I bought, fought many battles with it. But the way it is: no room for it any more!
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inspirace
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Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 10, 2017 10:53:29 GMT -5
I once met at the powerplant B beacon, a Raijin parked with an ancile and a thunder. with a thunder carnage, I tried to go rush around it and shoot from the side, but its legs completely blocked the narrow alley. my carnage got stumbled only to shoot the shields and went down. I went back with a plasma galahad to B. since we were loosing at beacon bar (plus a bit lost my mind thinking of vengence), I charged into it instead of corner-shooting. I thought it's shield should have been weakened by the thunder carnage. the thing is, a PDB griff joined it and start shooting from behind it. so plasmahad down too. they defended the beacon until the end, and got killed only after they came out from the alley when none of our team approached the beacon. the only time I was somewhat impressed by a Raijin, and that was way before the rocket buff. teaming with an ally to defend a post may be a good use of it - but not sure in this rocket world, edit: realized that PP B already mentioned above. well, this will be just another case study Here is a bad thing about such strategy - TWO bots defending one beacon. And at least one of them could not relocated to defend another beacon fast enough, meaning that reds are down 4 to 6, or at least 5 to 6 on the map. And you can pull same "beacon hog" with Ancilot + Plasmahad, or even Carnage + Rhino; it would still be more of an advantage due to mobility of a such squad. More than that, Lance/Rhino could also pull same trick on the move due to specifics of their shield, so you basically can perform "siege tank+bunke+turret" strategy from SC, if you know what I mean. well in PP B, you can also kind of keep the A in check, so it's 2 bots defending 2 beacons. and in this particular case, the point was NOT to move and wait for the enemy to come - a trap if you will. of course this trap would have been broken easily had the blue team not been somehow all busy getting destroyed at beacon D, where all four reds appeared hoding good strategic positions. and of course there will be combinations who can do this better, and perhaps doing it while moving. but with the constraint that I should find a use of a Raijin (given by the OP), this was the only thing I can think of. |
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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on Jun 10, 2017 11:00:11 GMT -5
Short and Sweet, Raijin is a long/mid ranger, absolutely pathetic anywhere else. Yeah, I once saw Zeus Raijin pretty good on Springfield. But it's better NOT to take a hit (think Zeus Carnage), than to be able to take it. As for long range - in Diamond people learn safe travel path on map very fast, so snipers must relocate all the time. Natty/Carnage is far better at this, and cheaper to buy/upgrade, too. So if the question would be: "I MUST use Raijin, what's his suitable use?" I would say you hit the bullseye. But I am thinking more of an area, where Raij is the best of them all, and can't find it yet. Ohh, I misunderstood you, sorry. The best Raijin use I can tell is the Beacon Hog strategy. It's kind of like when there is a crucial beacon you want to capture, but there is a robot over there that you don't want to mess with. Most Raijin layouts compete very closely at this strategy to thunder carnage, except for the fact that a thunder carnage hogging a beacon is no Bueno, and belongs in the middle of the battlefield. |
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Post by Strayed on Jun 10, 2017 11:19:08 GMT -5
With the new midrange rocket buff, unless you're using an ancile on a raijin, any raijin trying to hog a beacon is toast. Cover is not very effective against midrange splash as it has a large splash damage radius.
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 11:20:58 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, you just proved my worst theory: Raijin is the problem, and not my skills :(
I might not being clear, but the question is, actually:
Is there a task where Raijin is better/same than any other bot?
I.e Plashamad is great as a Hydra/Taran/Orkan Fujin counter; Stalker/Garett are good as a beacon runners, Griffin/Rog are the best splash ambushers, Lance/Leo are good at close range brawling, Fujin is the best RDB counter, Gepard is the best at spending 1200gold aimlessly... oh wait, I think it might be pretty close to Raijin.
P.s I think it _might_ be awesome Tempest platform.
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 11:25:48 GMT -5
With the new midrange rocket buff, unless you're using an ancile on a raijin, any raijin trying to hog a beacon is toast. Cover is not very effective against midrange splash as it has a large splash damage radius. Honestly, with all my limited experience, I think it's not the best idea to hog the beacon, collecting shots. It's better to move around and use covers, maybe even leave beacon for some time (even at Yama ramp is better than center platform for me), but what I know compared to you. :) The question popped into my head when I got conversation with Maxxyman (I'm sure you remember him), his advice was to use Zeuses. I tried, and though it was it, but then I tried Zeus Carnage... and after Zeus Carnage, honestly, Zeus Raijin is just "meh". So I decided to post a question here. |
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Post by ΒΣRΖΣRKΛ²³ on Jun 10, 2017 11:46:01 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, you just proved my worst theory: Raijin is the problem, and not my skills  I might not being clear, but the question is, actually: Is there a task where Raijin is better/same than any other bot? I.e Plashamad is great as a Hydra/Taran/Orkan Fujin counter; Stalker/Garett are good as a beacon runners, Griffin/Rog are the best splash ambushers, Lance/Leo are good at close range brawling, Fujin is the best RDB counter, Gepard is the best at spending 1200gold aimlessly... oh wait, I think it might be pretty close to Raijin. P.s I think it _might_ be awesome Tempest platform. Then again, the tempest is just another molot. Did you ever crumble in fear like "OH MY GOD HE'S PACKING MOLOTS I CAN NOT DEFEAT THIS BEAST !!!" - or is it like: [Mess]Berzerka Orkan Molotrobot
- which robot has been buffed by a gun ? |
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 11:55:49 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, you just proved my worst theory: Raijin is the problem, and not my skills :( I might not being clear, but the question is, actually: Is there a task where Raijin is better/same than any other bot? I.e Plashamad is great as a Hydra/Taran/Orkan Fujin counter; Stalker/Garett are good as a beacon runners, Griffin/Rog are the best splash ambushers, Lance/Leo are good at close range brawling, Fujin is the best RDB counter, Gepard is the best at spending 1200gold aimlessly... oh wait, I think it might be pretty close to Raijin. P.s I think it _might_ be awesome Tempest platform. Then again, the tempest is just another molot. Did you ever crumble in fear like "OH MY GOD HE'S PACKING MOLOTS I CAN NOT DEFEAT THIS BEAST !!!" - or is it like: [Mess]Berzerka Orkan Molotrobot
- which robot has been buffed by a gun ? I am highly doubtful that 300m range weapon would kill 800m one. With Molot Griff in my possession I destroyed a lot of robots on Canyon/Yama/Shenzhen and even occasionally on DeadCity/Springfield. And "oh, it's just a bullet" mindset helps a lot :) Usually my counter is only Treb or Zeus/Trident Carnage; Physical shield would make 2 out of 3 ineffective here. |
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dahltron
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Post by dahltron on Jun 10, 2017 12:01:21 GMT -5
I used to rock an Ancile/Thunder Raijin and LOVE it. Loved it more before the buff and before I moved to Gold 3. Great Beacon holder. It's immovable on Canyon, under the bridge...downtown.
I found that after the update it wasn't really mobile enough to deal with rockets anymore and the ancile became better. However, the loss of the second thunder made it really weak for farming silver for upgrades and didn't really fit in Gold. I always used it like a brawler with all the HP and it works really well if the situation calls for it. That situation got more and more rare so I grabbed a Rhino and a Second Carnage.
So short answer: no, It's not better at one particular thing than any other bot.
I feel like it needs a Niche.
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Post by H1151 on Jun 10, 2017 12:40:34 GMT -5
Dear Universal, All-Knowing, Widely Acclaimed, Expert Omnipotency,
I run my Raijin from time to time in iOS Diamond. I use dual Thunder or dual Zeus configs. Sometimes I do well, but more often not. I feel it's more due to my lack of skill than the bot being bad, though.
To me the usual principles apply for piloting Raijin. When knifing, buddy up and pick right opponents. When mid ranging, try to keep blue knifers between you and reds, guard the distances, and avoid being fried by red long rangers - and so on, nothing special there.
What makes it more complicated than usual though, are Raijin's size and relative lack of mobility, and especially the fact that everybody loves to shoot at it. That means normal levels of situational awareness are not enough to do well as Raijin pilot. One has to be especially good at anticipating what is going to happen next, and how the battle is going to develop (I'm not especially good at it btw, but I feel piloting Raijin forces me to work on that). Otherwise it is very easy to end up being in a wrong place at the wrong time, either out of the fight, or alone facing reds with ag signs in their eager, beady eyes.
There are better knifers and mid-rangers than Raijin for sure. However, it is not hopeless by any means, and in the lower leagues it can even rule the field at times. Its strengths, i.e. massive hp pool and physical shields, can be made to work for you, but you have to be in the right place at the right time. Not easy, but when you get it right, it is quite rewarding. It's an interesting bot to pilot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 14:33:50 GMT -5
Hello, guys. Of course, I am the all-knowing, widely acclaimed, omnipotent expert in WarRobots Universe. Thank you, all, you can just call me Russel. However, even I was puzzled by a robot called Raijin, so I would humbly accept your reasonable input on this one. I can say that I am little bit biased here, due to the following facts: 1) I just LOVE Raijin's design. Imho it's awesome. Only Fujin is awesomer (can I say that? Or should I use "more awesome"? Oh, by the way, did you knew that originally, both " awful" and " awesome" had the meaning of being awe-inspiring (including positive connotations), as well as "worthy of, or commanding, profound respect or reverential fear"?) Oops, sorry, drifted off-topic here. 2) I got Mitsudomoe Raijin from the event, and another Raijin from a chest. So I got two of them almost for free, and free stuff can't be bad, right? Finally moving to the question: Is Raijin really really useless?I manged to kill Raijins with my Leo, with my RDB (prior to buff), with TuluDoc (prior and after the buff), and today I killed Thunder\Zeus Raijin on Canyon with my Doc. It's all good and games, but the fact is my Orkans are 6,6,7,8, and Doc is lvl5, and Raijin was 8\8. Seriously, but c'mon. How underleveled guy could destroy mobile fortress in a Canyon Standoff? Really? And I could never pilot Raijin good. The main drawbacks are: - Too slow, take ages to move into position (not talking even about trying to dodge something)
- Clunky legs, you get stuck easily
- Somewhat underpowered to my liking
- Weapon slots are way far apart from each other to be effectively used in close fight, and
- Legs are mounted so wide that corner shooting is a joke
- Big frame, collect ALL the bullets from the battlefield
- Bastion mode is very slow to turn on\off
- Once in Bastion and under fire - you cannot retreat due to p.1, p.6, p.7
- Shields are far too narrow, could be flanked and shot right in the belly
So, as my experience in a game is limited to D2 League on iOS, I would like to hear opinions of guys from Android Gold2+ and\or Diamond iOS:
What am I doing wrong, and\or is this bot really really really suck and even Natasha\Carnage is better?
(ah, well, this IS the correct and final question) 1. No, the Raijin is not useless. 2. You'll need to show some vid of your playstyle, and we can critique it. But first, what is your Raijin level, and what weapons are you using with it and their levels. I wouldn't look to Diamond league for how useful the Raijin is. There are a lot of bad Raijin users in general. I play in iOS Expert/Diamond, so I see them all the time in Diamond. I don't see any Raijin in Expert. One time I saw a Raijin park next to mine, and he put himself in Bastion mode. We both climbed on top of a ridge, but I was not using Bastion mode so I could move freely and dodge rockets. Trust me, I've gone 1-on-1 against Champion players (I look at the profile after the match, and Expert is lumped with Champion sometimes), so Raijin can go toe to toe with Fury Tridents and RDB Griffins. Yes, I read your discussion in the wiki last night, and as you know already, the Raijin has 50% more hit point while the Fury has 50% more firepower so it's up to the skill of the pilot. In Diamond, I find my Raijin performs fine at level 5 thru 7 as I was leveling it. My 2x Tridents were at level 10. Pilots don't generally have the skill or firepower to take down a Raijin in Diamond if you pilot it right. I already have a detailed post I created on my playstyle so you can read it if you haven't already. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/7553/raijinIn Expert, I find that my underleveled Raijin doesn't cut it. I need my Raijin up to par, so it's almost at level 9 now. Almost everyone I face has weapons and bots maxed out or at level 11, so even a lucky shot can seriously cripple my Raijin. There's such a huge difference in skill between Diamond and Expert. I can hide on the ridge on Moon map, and 9/10 times Diamond players will not notice me. In Expert, I'll usually be the one surprised by a jumping RDB while I am already fighting another Fury. Diamond brawlers will usually ignore me (or not notice me?) while Expert guys will bring out their long range and hunt me down on my perch. So lots of times, it's a tense stand off that last a few minutes where we both both duck in and out of cover and take potshots at each other, but usually it's me vs 2 or 3 other long range who see me as free silver. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 14:36:34 GMT -5
Russel , my wife just wanted a Fujin o Raijin as they came out to the shop, but list of priorities placed them at the end of it. Recently she had a buch of WP saved and really enjoyed her trebuchet gecko Leo, so I suggested her to upgrade the trebuchet she earned at the event and buy a raijin. She has done so few days ago, and she is delighted. She spreads death and destruction with her double trebuchet and raijin's shield protects her against enemy's snipers trying to stop her. I say, long distance, wonderful, any other range, well, you gave enough arguments to not to do so I don't play mine as an anti-sniper sniper, but it's one niche that the Raijin is best at. Put some Trebs on it, use Bastion mode, and go kill all the Leo Gekkos, Patton Gekkos, Treb Fury, Treb Carnages, plus all the other myriad sniper weapons out there (KWK). |
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Jun 10, 2017 14:38:30 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, you just proved my worst theory: Raijin is the problem, and not my skills I might not being clear, but the question is, actually: Is there a task where Raijin is better/same than any other bot? I.e Plashamad is great as a Hydra/Taran/Orkan Fujin counter; Stalker/Garett are good as a beacon runners, Griffin/Rog are the best splash ambushers, Lance/Leo are good at close range brawling, Fujin is the best RDB counter, Gepard is the best at spending 1200gold aimlessly... oh wait, I think it might be pretty close to Raijin. P.s I think it _might_ be awesome Tempest platform. okay it that was the question, hmm ... climbing? I once was killed by a Treb Raijin, who attach itself on a wall just next to the tunnel exit (from the spawn where you need to go down a ramp to enter the tunnel bridge i.e. the A beacon side), in bastation mode, right below a treb butch. those two combos' six trebs shoot out so many blues with somewhat concerted fire. shields protected against our long-rangers. so it may have an edge as a turret providing a suppressive fire in certain situations? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 15:25:34 GMT -5
I once met at the powerplant B beacon, a Raijin parked with an ancile and a thunder. with a thunder carnage, I tried to go rush around it and shoot from the side, but its legs completely blocked the narrow alley. my carnage got stumbled only to shoot the shields and went down. I went back with a plasma galahad to B. since we were loosing at beacon bar (plus a bit lost my mind thinking of vengence), I charged into it instead of corner-shooting. I thought it's shield should have been weakened by the thunder carnage. the thing is, a PDB griff joined it and start shooting from behind it. so plasmahad down too. they defended the beacon until the end, and got killed only after they came out from the alley when none of our team approached the beacon. the only time I was somewhat impressed by a Raijin, and that was way before the rocket buff. teaming with an ally to defend a post may be a good use of it - but not sure in this rocket world, edit: realized that PP B already mentioned above. well, this will be just another case study Here is a bad thing about such strategy - TWO bots defending one beacon. And at least one of them could not relocated to defend another beacon fast enough, meaning that reds are down 4 to 6, or at least 5 to 6 on the map. And you can pull same "beacon hog" with Ancilot + Plasmahad, or even Carnage + Rhino; it would still be more of an advantage due to mobility of a such squad. More than that, Lance/Rhino could also pull same trick on the move due to specifics of their shield, so you basically can perform "siege tank+bunke+turret" strategy from SC, if you know what I mean. I just started using the Ancile/Thunder Raijin last night. Raijin is level 8, Thunder level 11, Ancile level 10 in iOS Expert. You already know the difference between this Raijin and a Ancilot (based on your Wiki discussions). The Raijin Thunder/Ancile is a better beacon defender. It can take on multiple opponents and it can do it by itself. So for maps like Springfield, I will head for the centre beacon, and I can usually take on the Stalkers, Rogatkas, and shield bots that come my way. Think of it this way, no one can push you around so if you sit and park on centre beacon of Springfield, no red is gonna stand next to you and take a Thunder in the face. They have to basically kill you to take that beacon back, and that will require a coordinated attack, plus they need to use more than weak light and medium bots. On powerplant, it's natural to sit at one of the beacons and wait for them. Again, it's gonna be very hard for them to take you down. You can usually fend off 2-3 reds by yourself. Not at the same time, but if they come one by one. They can't push you off the beacon, so you can basically defend 2 beacons by yourself (the beach one and one in narrow corridor). If multiple reds come, usually I can hang on until reinforcements come. For Shenzhen, I'll actually camp at the side beacon that no one wants to go to (the one by the blue building). Usually one guy will come, and so it only takes one person to defend it. I may not do much if no one comes by, but the rest of my team usually can control the other beacons. So back to Ancilot vs Raijin Ancile/Thunder. The same tricks that work on Ancilot don't work on Raijin. A Griffin that was right in front of me tried to jump behind me. That would work against an Ancilot, but my Raijin was able to turn around and face the other side before he was even over my head. The shields of a Raijin seems to give better protection, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It seems to protect my flank a little more, so the red needs to be at more of an angle to hit my exposed flank. Raijin is immune to flanking maneuvers. Some Griffin must of thought I was a Rhino because he jumped closer to me, then tried to flank me. Sorry bud, you get a Thunder in the face for your mistake. Stalker encircling tactics won't work either, but even though the turret can keep up, it's still hard to aim. Raijin is better in the rocket age. More hit points means that the Raijin can survive longer, and that usually means you can hold the beacon longer. Level 9 Lancelot has 141K hit point, and level 9 Raijin has 204K hit point. There have been so many times my Raijin has been hanging by a thread, but it keeps on trucking with its weapons in tact. That might be another thing, the pop off rate of its weapons. So now 2 attackers need to burn off your Ancile and deplete 204K of your health to kill you. Of course, it's very important for the Raijin to dictate the encounter (since DB and RDB has range on Thunder), so that's why I mentioned those maps that allow the Raijin to do that. If they want my beacon, that have to get very close to me on Powerplant. I can hide behind cover on Springfield, until they pop into view to take my beacon. Otherwise the Raijin can just hide, and let the Ancile regenerate. Russel, if you're just plopping down in the middle of Dead City beacon, then there's no way the Raijin will survive long. Raijin is strong enough to repel 1, even 2 attackers sometimes by itself. So you're doing a few things for your team. 1. You're freeing up a blue. 2. You're holding a critical beacon longer, one that usually would switch multiple times. 3. Multiple reds will need to attack you. 4. If that happens, then your blues should have big advantage. So far in Expert, I'm winning more, usually by beacon bar advantage. I'll have to play more since sometimes time of day matters, but I'm really liking this Raijin (the Thunder/Ancile). |
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Post by noobcake on Jun 10, 2017 16:57:22 GMT -5
One thing that would make it much better is to relocate the two heavy hard points on top similar to a Carnage. This would allow the weapons to function well in close combat and to fire over low barriers. No cornershooting due to legs and weapons but you would get to shoot over things.
Increasing the bastion mode speed would help like they did with the fujin shield.
I would also like to see this thing be able to move really slowly while bastion is activated. Maybe 15kph?
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 17:34:02 GMT -5
Think of it this way, no one can push you around so if you sit and park on centre beacon of Springfield, no red is gonna stand next to you and take a Thunder in the face. They have to basically kill you to take that beacon back, and that will require a coordinated attack, plus they need to use more than weak light and medium bots. On powerplant, it's natural to sit at one of the beacons and wait for them. Again, it's gonna be very hard for them to take you down. You can usually fend off 2-3 reds by yourself. Not at the same time, but if they come one by one. They can't push you off the beacon, so you can basically defend 2 beacons by yourself (the beach one and one in narrow corridor). If multiple reds come, usually I can hang on until reinforcements come. For Shenzhen, I'll actually camp at the side beacon that no one wants to go to (the one by the blue building). Usually one guy will come, and so it only takes one person to defend it. I may not do much if no one comes by, but the rest of my team usually can control the other beacons. The shields of a Raijin seems to give better protection, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It seems to protect my flank a little more, so the red needs to be at more of an angle to hit my exposed flank. Raijin is better in the rocket age. More hit points means that the Raijin can survive longer, That might be another thing, the pop off rate of its weapons. I think these are the points I was waiting for, thank you a lot. I'll just sum it up, please correct me if I'm wrong: 1) Shortrange flanking that usually works against Lance\Rhino is not working against Raijin 2) It's best shortrange use is to hog beacon (I am still not convinced that hogging a beacon is a good idea in general, but nevertheless) 3) Angle of protection might be wider (I tend to believe that, because shield is curved, and Brit\Rhino shields are flat) 4) More hitpoints make it's better protected against splash 5) Weapon pop off rate is low (again, need some kind of proof for this one) 6) It can climb and make attack from weird angles enemies are not used to defend from While I find practicality of some of these somewhat doubtful to me, I will not argue this without testing out for myself. So please correct\add to this list if I've missed\misunderstood something |
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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 17:44:55 GMT -5
One thing that would make it much better is to relocate the two heavy hard points on top similar to a Carnage. This would allow the weapons to function well in close combat and to fire over low barriers. No cornershooting due to legs and weapons but you would get to shoot over things. Increasing the bastion mode speed would help like they did with the fujin shield. I would also like to see this thing be able to move really slowly while bastion is activated. Maybe 15kph? You know, I would be HAPPY to pilot Raijin, if they introduced means to fall back. Say, ability "Fallback". While in Bastion mode, Raijin can jump back 300m, with cooldown of 2 minutes, and automatically switched off Bastion mode. The most frustrating part for me is when I choose good place, Bastioned there, and then my friends are dead, and I'm being hit by plasma+bullets+snipers. So I basically can't close shields and fallback, because I would be dead fast, and it's no use to try to extend my inevitable end. |
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