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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on Jun 13, 2017 6:59:14 GMT -5
I don't understand, being a sandbag? There are a couple players that got a little too far ahead of their own league, and can't deal more than 200k, but that's not being a sandbag. Using terrible bots is being a sandbag, overtime you see a long range with noricums and zenits, just learn to assume they aren't part of the total 5 (6?) Players on your team. As far as I understand the game, "being a sandbag" is a decent strategy, but only if it is a temporary measure. Example, if you wish: Canyon, me in Leo, teammate in a Trident Fury. Lancelot is approaching, Fury is on reload. I move in to be at Fury's front, received Thunder+Taran salvo, while shooting back, of course, and then Fury shots Tridents, ta-da! No more Lancelot. That is "optimizing the damage"; so in any battle it's better to divide damage done between your bots to keep everybody alive and firing as long as possible, while trying to focus fire on single enemy bot. This is because single bot _USUALY_ can fire as good when he's at 1% of health as when he's at 100% But the main issue here is that I can fire back and can move while absorbing damage, with a decent speed, so I can bring my body and my firepower where needed in relevant time; and not when everybody's dead or beacons are taken. So far I heard only one decent opinion of Raijin usage, it was on using "climb" in order to "dodge" rockets and find better fire position. However in my experience whenever Raijin is on the map I can hear "Hey, free silver!" and everybody starts shooting at him, because: 1) It's big, you can't miss 2) It's slow, he can't escape\dodge 3) It's slow, YOU can peek out, shoot and hide 4) It's not very powerful in terms of firepower (NO, Raijin's twin Thunders are NOT the same as Carnages due to the spread of the Thunder and wider mounting on a Raijin); if it's a Trident\Zeus it's even better, because you can time his shot while in cover, then pop out, shoot and hide back again; and see p.2 5) For the rocket guys Raijin is just a little bit fatter Leo with A LOT more area to hit, so it dies even faster. So that's, in short, difference between "a bullet magnet" and "a sandbag" in my opinion. Oh, and once again, about corner-shooting - I think there were a misconception in this thread in relation to this activity. Cornershooting is getting none damage while you enemy is getting some. It cannot be done when your huge leg sticks out. I did many crazy tricks in this game - so I believe that good Raijin gameplay is possible - but for the most part I can get my video or find similar. With this bot, however, I can find only some low-league play, where lvl5 Pinata Gepard is being obliterated by a Thunder Raijin, or some tankers video, where 12\12 Raijin massacre entire map of 6\6 player. And the reason to this thread is NOT to mocker players\bots; I'd like to re-format WIKI Raijin page with objective information, and so far I found none. In any day\any league you would be better off with a Carnage or Rhino or even Fujin for the WP\Silver it would take to get\upgrade Raijin. So in my opinion it still is a fun to play, "hobby-bot" you take for a spin on a weekend, and not your trustworthy moneymaking killing machine. That one's on me, I totally messed up the concept of sandbagging, I guess britbots and carnages might still server a good purpose. This requires hella communication, which never happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 18:35:13 GMT -5
As far as I understand the game, "being a sandbag" is a decent strategy, but only if it is a temporary measure. Example, if you wish: Canyon, me in Leo, teammate in a Trident Fury. Lancelot is approaching, Fury is on reload. I move in to be at Fury's front, received Thunder+Taran salvo, while shooting back, of course, and then Fury shots Tridents, ta-da! No more Lancelot. That is "optimizing the damage"; so in any battle it's better to divide damage done between your bots to keep everybody alive and firing as long as possible, while trying to focus fire on single enemy bot. This is because single bot _USUALY_ can fire as good when he's at 1% of health as when he's at 100% But the main issue here is that I can fire back and can move while absorbing damage, with a decent speed, so I can bring my body and my firepower where needed in relevant time; and not when everybody's dead or beacons are taken. So far I heard only one decent opinion of Raijin usage, it was on using "climb" in order to "dodge" rockets and find better fire position. However in my experience whenever Raijin is on the map I can hear "Hey, free silver!" and everybody starts shooting at him, because: 1) It's big, you can't miss 2) It's slow, he can't escape\dodge 3) It's slow, YOU can peek out, shoot and hide 4) It's not very powerful in terms of firepower (NO, Raijin's twin Thunders are NOT the same as Carnages due to the spread of the Thunder and wider mounting on a Raijin); if it's a Trident\Zeus it's even better, because you can time his shot while in cover, then pop out, shoot and hide back again; and see p.2 5) For the rocket guys Raijin is just a little bit fatter Leo with A LOT more area to hit, so it dies even faster. So that's, in short, difference between "a bullet magnet" and "a sandbag" in my opinion. Oh, and once again, about corner-shooting - I think there were a misconception in this thread in relation to this activity. Cornershooting is getting none damage while you enemy is getting some. It cannot be done when your huge leg sticks out. I did many crazy tricks in this game - so I believe that good Raijin gameplay is possible - but for the most part I can get my video or find similar. With this bot, however, I can find only some low-league play, where lvl5 Pinata Gepard is being obliterated by a Thunder Raijin, or some tankers video, where 12\12 Raijin massacre entire map of 6\6 player. And the reason to this thread is NOT to mocker players\bots; I'd like to re-format WIKI Raijin page with objective information, and so far I found none. In any day\any league you would be better off with a Carnage or Rhino or even Fujin for the WP\Silver it would take to get\upgrade Raijin. So in my opinion it still is a fun to play, "hobby-bot" you take for a spin on a weekend, and not your trustworthy moneymaking killing machine. That one's on me, I totally messed up the concept of sandbagging, I guess britbots and carnages might still server a good purpose. This requires hella communication, which never happens. I think he means "punching bag" not "sandbag". Raijin Thunder is meant to tânk damage and soak it up for his teammates, so they can survive longer. If you have a Raijin Ancile/Thunder leading the vanguard, and marching for a contested beacon like on Yamantau, then it could survive longer than an Ancilot. I haven't tried this strategy, and it does require teamwork.
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Post by Strayed on Jun 13, 2017 18:54:41 GMT -5
Yup, meant punching bag. We don't use sandbag as a term here a lot so I made a mistake there.
"If you have a Raijin Ancile/Thunder leading the vanguard, and marching for a contested beacon like on Yamantau, then it could survive longer than an Ancilot. I haven't tried this strategy, and it does require teamwork."
If you haven't tried it, then don't recommend it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 18:57:12 GMT -5
I don't understand, being a sandbag? There are a couple players that got a little too far ahead of their own league, and can't deal more than 200k, but that's not being a sandbag. Using terrible bots is being a sandbag, overtime you see a long range with noricums and zenits, just learn to assume they aren't part of the total 5 (6?) Players on your team. As far as I understand the game, "being a sandbag" is a decent strategy, but only if it is a temporary measure. Example, if you wish: Canyon, me in Leo, teammate in a Trident Fury. Lancelot is approaching, Fury is on reload. I move in to be at Fury's front, received Thunder+Taran salvo, while shooting back, of course, and then Fury shots Tridents, ta-da! No more Lancelot. That is "optimizing the damage"; so in any battle it's better to divide damage done between your bots to keep everybody alive and firing as long as possible, while trying to focus fire on single enemy bot. This is because single bot _USUALY_ can fire as good when he's at 1% of health as when he's at 100% But the main issue here is that I can fire back and can move while absorbing damage, with a decent speed, so I can bring my body and my firepower where needed in relevant time; and not when everybody's dead or beacons are taken. So far I heard only one decent opinion of Raijin usage, it was on using "climb" in order to "dodge" rockets and find better fire position. However in my experience whenever Raijin is on the map I can hear "Hey, free silver!" and everybody starts shooting at him, because: 1) It's big, you can't miss 2) It's slow, he can't escape\dodge 3) It's slow, YOU can peek out, shoot and hide 4) It's not very powerful in terms of firepower (NO, Raijin's twin Thunders are NOT the same as Carnages due to the spread of the Thunder and wider mounting on a Raijin); if it's a Trident\Zeus it's even better, because you can time his shot while in cover, then pop out, shoot and hide back again; and see p.2 5) For the rocket guys Raijin is just a little bit fatter Leo with A LOT more area to hit, so it dies even faster. So that's, in short, difference between "a bullet magnet" and "a sandbag" in my opinion. Oh, and once again, about corner-shooting - I think there were a misconception in this thread in relation to this activity. Cornershooting is getting none damage while you enemy is getting some. It cannot be done when your huge leg sticks out. I did many crazy tricks in this game - so I believe that good Raijin gameplay is possible - but for the most part I can get my video or find similar. With this bot, however, I can find only some low-league play, where lvl5 Pinata Gepard is being obliterated by a Thunder Raijin, or some tankers video, where 12\12 Raijin massacre entire map of 6\6 player. And the reason to this thread is NOT to mocker players\bots; I'd like to re-format WIKI Raijin page with objective information, and so far I found none. In any day\any league you would be better off with a Carnage or Rhino or even Fujin for the WP\Silver it would take to get\upgrade Raijin. So in my opinion it still is a fun to play, "hobby-bot" you take for a spin on a weekend, and not your trustworthy moneymaking killing machine. I think it's good you're trying to update the wiki and put more good information on the page. But there isn't any good info or videos because of the attitude of many snobs. So you'l have to try for yourself. I've told you my experiences and every tactic I use with the Raijin, so yes, use the bot yourself and see if it's true and it works. I wish I could show you the videos of my underleveled Raijin Trident dueling with Champion RDB and Furys. I can't, so that's why I wrote the mini guide on the Raijin. It mainly covers climbing, and one style of fighting as an afterthought. It's mainly meant to teach people how to climb with the Raijin, and it's not a general Raijin guide.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 14, 2017 7:31:13 GMT -5
Multiple folks here passionate about Raijin have shared some great facts and ideas on how to best to incorporate him . Your mind was closed before you opened this thread ,You were not looking looking for help , which means you were stringing us along .
There is no logic here . You fail to grasp the basic concept and tactical usefulness of maximum armour combined with shield. Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game. Toilet paper armour bots do not win games . I cannot clarify this any better to my brick wall and neither to you . Skill is a factor , Mobility is a factor .....DURABILITY IS ALSO A VALID FACTOR .
You are not qualified to change Raijin wiki . The Raijin Diamond league player has that honour .
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Post by Russel on Jun 14, 2017 7:55:26 GMT -5
Multiple folks here passionate about Raijin have shared some great facts and ideas on how to best to incorporate him . Your mind was closed before you opened this thread ,You were not looking looking for help , which means you were stringing us along . There is no logic here . You fail to grasp the basic concept and tactical usefulness of maximum armour combined with shield. Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game. Toilet paper armour bots do not win games . I cannot clarify this any better to my brick wall and neither to you . Skill is a factor , Mobility is a factor .....DURABILITY IS ALSO A VALID FACTOR . You are not qualified to change Raijin wiki . The Raijin Diamond league player has that honour . Thank you, my dear sir\madam, I will take your advice in consideration.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 14, 2017 8:17:54 GMT -5
Thank you for making this thread . There is some nice Raijin input here and i am glad i am not the only enthusiast.
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Post by Vectivus on Jun 15, 2017 16:38:09 GMT -5
I'll put in another vote for the Ancile / Thunder configuration. I am consistently surprised by how long it survives in Android Gold; unless the reds take some time to really focus it, it's damned hard to kill; weaker 'bots or loners will consistently back off and find cover after trying to go toe-to-toe with this config, if they survive the Thunder.
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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on Jun 15, 2017 18:19:04 GMT -5
Multiple folks here passionate about Raijin have shared some great facts and ideas on how to best to incorporate him . Your mind was closed before you opened this thread ,You were not looking looking for help , which means you were stringing us along . There is no logic here . You fail to grasp the basic concept and tactical usefulness of maximum armour combined with shield. Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game. Toilet paper armour bots do not win games . I cannot clarify this any better to my brick wall and neither to you . Skill is a factor , Mobility is a factor .....DURABILITY IS ALSO A VALID FACTOR . You are not qualified to change Raijin wiki . The Raijin Diamond league player has that honour . Thank you, my dear sir\madam, I will take your advice in consideration. Just putting in a last word, raijin is a fairly old bot, and we know what pixonic does to old bots.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 16, 2017 9:21:17 GMT -5
Dear Griffin and Galahad lovers Your small opinions have been noted . I reject your fantasies and substitute my own reality Love Corny the corner shooting Raijin
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 16, 2017 9:37:18 GMT -5
300m jump? Jeezus, no. And a 300 meter jump would make it even worse than it already is. if you jumped back, it's too slow to re-engage in any meaningful way.
Raijiin just isn't good with any setup.
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Post by bilbobaggins on Jun 16, 2017 9:40:53 GMT -5
I don't understand, being a sandbag? There are a couple players that got a little too far ahead of their own league, and can't deal more than 200k, but that's not being a sandbag. Using terrible bots is being a sandbag, overtime you see a long range with noricums and zenits, just learn to assume they aren't part of the total 5 (6?) Players on your team. As far as I understand the game, "being a sandbag" is a decent strategy, but only if it is a temporary measure. Example, if you wish: Canyon, me in Leo, teammate in a Trident Fury. Lancelot is approaching, Fury is on reload. I move in to be at Fury's front, received Thunder+Taran salvo, while shooting back, of course, and then Fury shots Tridents, ta-da! No more Lancelot. That is "optimizing the damage"; so in any battle it's better to divide damage done between your bots to keep everybody alive and firing as long as possible, while trying to focus fire on single enemy bot. [...] Just want to say I love this part of your post. Not enough players do this, but when it happens, it makes me smile. I've done this many times for teammates. Rarely do teammates do it for me. But yesterday in a Canyon battle (where I've been playing a lot lately), my Gareth shield was destroyed, and my teammates covered me until the end of the battle. It was amazing. The reds were trying to get me, but my teammates wouldn't let them.
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Post by Russel on Jun 16, 2017 11:23:46 GMT -5
Dear Griffin and Galahad lovers Your small opinions have been noted . I reject your fantasies and substitute my own reality Love Corny the corner shooting Raijin Hmmm, so you actually not reading other people's posts. I was hoping that you do, but just stubborn. ... Oh, and once again, about corner-shooting - I think there were a misconception in this thread in relation to this activity. Cornershooting is getting none damage while you enemy is getting some. It cannot be done when your huge leg sticks out.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 16, 2017 12:40:48 GMT -5
And....whom in that picture is shooting my leg exactly ? And with what targeting system game patch ?
Life would be so awesome if we did not suffer auto aim , so that we could shoot legs off enemy bots.
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Post by Russel on Jun 16, 2017 12:55:24 GMT -5
And....whom in that picture is shooting my leg exactly ? And with what targeting system game patch ? Life would be so awesome if we did not suffer auto aim , so that we could shoot legs off enemy bots. Any smart pilot would. Simple Molot Grifin would be of a great nuisance for both Ancile and a leg. I've said that before, and I repeat again - if you like piloting Raijin - that's fine. I am not trying to make a crusade against it. You are not in my clan, you are not spending my money\silver\gold (whatever) upgrading it. I'm cool. The thread was to get some useful information, not to check who is having fun piloting Raijin (spoiler alert: I like piloting it! It walks funny, can climb and is making cool sounds) It is just underpowered bot, who is ignored for the most part in the game, and occasionally killed, because it's basically free silver. You will understand that, in time, when your opponents start bearing lvl9+ weapons. So once again: I am not trying to talk you out of using Raijin. I was just looking for a good advice, and taking Raijin closer than 510m to enemy is not a good one.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 16, 2017 13:06:24 GMT -5
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 16, 2017 22:13:45 GMT -5
Multiple folks here passionate about Raijin have shared some great facts and ideas on how to best to incorporate him . Your mind was closed before you opened this thread ,You were not looking looking for help , which means you were stringing us along . There is no logic here . You fail to grasp the basic concept and tactical usefulness of maximum armour combined with shield. Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game. Toilet paper armour bots do not win games . I cannot clarify this any better to my brick wall and neither to you . Skill is a factor , Mobility is a factor .....DURABILITY IS ALSO A VALID FACTOR . You are not qualified to change Raijin wiki . The Raijin Diamond league player has that honour . None of the points you've brought up are actually valid. It cant take a beacon. It cant hold a beacon. You mistake protection with being in the way. 2-3 minutes to kill? Try 15 seconds, tops. There isn't enough skill in the world to make this bot good currently, and it is in no way Mobile beyond the mere fact that is "can" move, however slowly.
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Post by robocain on Jun 23, 2017 18:44:30 GMT -5
I'm frequently running my lvl9 Raijin with two lvl9 Anciles. Let me tell you...this thing is a freaking hulk. The most ridiculous scenes I ever came across in War Robots happened when I piloted this setup. I think there is nothing available in this game that is able to take such a beating. It's slow, but it takes beacons and holds them. It keeps team mates alive and let's them generate new damage highscores.
It sure takes some practice to find good locations for activating the bastion mode. You got to make sure that you don't block your team mates. They have to remain able to backpedal or circle around you. And team mates need to know about the capabilities to make it really work. "Ancilejin" pretty much sucks in solo matches to be honest. But in a coordinated clan squad it is a real terror to kill.
However...this setup is only for those who are bored. If silver is your motivation, Ancilejin will not be your friend. It generates as much damage as is generates income...absolutely zero. But it's one of the best tools for beacon dominance and it's tons of fun in gold tier.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 23, 2017 21:23:00 GMT -5
You know I guess I should be happy that over and over the Raijin gets slagged on the forums by people who think they know what it's for. That it's just 'a big bag of silver' like their bots aren't getting destroyed. That it's so slow that it can't take beacons and so weak that it can't defend them.
You know why? Because I routinely kill the poor fools who believe all that they read and upon seeing my Raijin run right up to cash in.
Especially Thunder Carnages. Thunder Carnages are great. But not at killing Thunder Raijins. Thunder Raijins ooooooooooooooooooown them. And even when they run away, I can usually strip their shields as a going away present.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 24, 2017 13:40:29 GMT -5
From my experience of online buttkicking , The Devs take note of popular and "abandoned" options say for example bots or weapons . They will nerf and buff and tweak until everything is played with equally .
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 24, 2017 14:44:19 GMT -5
I lost both shields when I was forced to kill the plasma Patton and Thunder/Molot Natasha that came over the ramp to attack me together. They were my second and third kills. Shortly after I took this screenie, a plasma Griff jumped in to 'finish me off'. He was my fourth kill. I was slugging it out with another Griff when the match ended. Tell me Raijin is not that good in iOS Expert and up? Sure. But don't give me any of that 'always better choices' foolishness. No similarly leveled Carnage or Rhino could have done what Raijin did here, which was deny C to the Reds for the entire match.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 24, 2017 17:00:38 GMT -5
Dude your Raijin is not that good on IOS . Yes of course there are better options. My Zues Raijin will totally pawn your shotgun Raijin .
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 24, 2017 17:26:08 GMT -5
Dude your Raijin is not that good on IOS . Yes of course there are better options. My Zues Raijin will totally pawn your shotgun Raijin . Well that depends on whether we meet on the high plains of Springfield or in the dark alleys of Dead City, doesn't it?
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Post by Russel on Jun 26, 2017 16:08:43 GMT -5
Not to beat dead horse here, just to illustrate point about robot geometry playing big part in a battle:
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Post by Nitro on Jun 26, 2017 19:20:00 GMT -5
Reading some of the posts, the Rajin for me is meant to make use of sniping areas difficult to access by any other bot due to its climbing ability. This gives it the ability to hang off the side of some ledges to use as cover, plus a mean looking Rajin can sometimes be a natural deterrent to plasma bots. No bot in this game can win EVERY situation, and the Rajin is no exception.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 2:22:29 GMT -5
Reading some of the posts, the Rajin for me is meant to make use of sniping areas difficult to access by any other bot due to its climbing ability. This gives it the ability to hang off the side of some ledges to use as cover, plus a mean looking Rajin can sometimes be a natural deterrent to plasma bots. No bot in this game can win EVERY situation, and the Rajin is no exception. Yep, I heard that climbing ability was nerfed some time ago. So I believe that it supposed to be the sniper/midrange who can bastion itself on a hard to reach areas, but then maps were modified so it's sniping abilities is less of a use. More than that, I believe that the best use of the Raijin is midrange, where it can be decent, if positioned right. Still I find it hard to believe that Raijin can be successfully used with any at least somewhat skilled enemies as a knife fighter.
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Post by WilsonK on Jun 27, 2017 2:30:32 GMT -5
Russel In my own experience, Raijin is awesome for large maps where you use those clumpy legs to climb high and Treb away, or Bastion it down on high ground. Other than that.... kaput. psyflex SERIOUSLY LOL AT YOUR AVATAR ECU-Ancilot
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 2:35:44 GMT -5
Russel In my own experience, Raijin is awesome for large maps where you use those clumpy legs to climb high and Treb away, or Bastion it down on high ground. Other than that.... kaput. psyflex SERIOUSLY LOL AT YOUR AVATAR (rofl) ECU-Ancilot Oh, btw, Raijin _might_ get less stuck with the next update (current on Android). And on Trebuchet - I still not sure if it's worth trading HP for firepower (Raijin vs other snipers)
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Post by WilsonK on Jun 27, 2017 3:04:51 GMT -5
Russel In my own experience, Raijin is awesome for large maps where you use those clumpy legs to climb high and Treb away, or Bastion it down on high ground. Other than that.... kaput. psyflex SERIOUSLY LOL AT YOUR AVATAR ECU-Ancilot Oh, btw, Raijin _might_ get less stuck with the next update (current on Android). And on Trebuchet - I still not sure if it's worth trading HP for firepower (Raijin vs other snipers) For Trebs it's still definitely gotta be Fury & Butch, but IMO Fury can still deal a more painful blow, moving targets still have a chance to avoid a second drawfire from Butch.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 3:49:25 GMT -5
Raijin is more useful now due to the heavy sniper fest. Games are a laser light show, and rockets are everywhere. It took me 2 bots to get 1 beacon since no one else wanted to get it. My worst game ever, and then my night went downhill after that. My whole team is camping most games, so I have to suicide my bots to get 1 beacon for us. I haven't used the sniper Raijin to counter, instead tried the Zenit to go after the campers but it was only good at getting 1 Fury hiding per game.
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