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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 4:30:46 GMT -5
Raijin is more useful now due to the heavy sniper fest. Games are a laser light show, and rockets are everywhere. It took me 2 bots to get 1 beacon since no one else wanted to get it. My worst game ever, and then my night went downhill after that. My whole team is camping most games, so I have to suicide my bots to get 1 beacon for us. I haven't used the sniper Raijin to counter, instead tried the Zenit to go after the campers but it was only good at getting 1 Fury hiding per game. Completely different situation here in Diamond2 :-D Haven't seen ANY Trebuchet for two days already, and no Gekkos too. Usually a rocket fest.
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Post by TravLar on Jun 27, 2017 4:46:54 GMT -5
Raijin is more useful now due to the heavy sniper fest. Games are a laser light show, and rockets are everywhere. It took me 2 bots to get 1 beacon since no one else wanted to get it. My worst game ever, and then my night went downhill after that. My whole team is camping most games, so I have to suicide my bots to get 1 beacon for us. I haven't used the sniper Raijin to counter, instead tried the Zenit to go after the campers but it was only good at getting 1 Fury hiding per game. Completely different situation here in Diamond2 :-D Haven't seen ANY Trebuchet for two days already, and no Gekkos too. Usually a rocket fest. And then I came across this Treb guy... Completely ruined the game at Yamanatau; 1 hit to my Griffins and half my health was gone, 2 and I was dead. (Diamond 2, iOS).
I expect (hope!) to see less of them as my rating climbs. The guys who spawn with them often last the whole match because they're so far from the action so they effectively keep one bot out of the fights that happens at <600m, where games are decided.
Also, the are too few maps where they are effective.
But if this is all true, why do I hate them so much?
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 27, 2017 8:50:20 GMT -5
Not to beat dead horse here, just to illustrate point about robot geometry playing big part in a battle: Seriously Russel? A short video of a Carnage distracting a Raijin while the other Blues rockets do the work of killing it? 1) That Raijin pilot was an idiot for crawling along the exposed path to the steps on Shenzhen. That's like strapping a missile magnet to your bot. Particularly as the Reds were winning handily. 2) The Carnage was nearly dead even with the Raijin taking a pounding from Aphids and what looked like Tulu/Pins. As low as his hitpoints were when that Raijin took on that Carnage, if there were no other Blues in the area that Carnage would have died. Over the past few days my thunder Raijin has run into two thunder carnages who decided not to run away. They died. The secret to the thunder Raijin, like SO MANY OTHER KNIFEFIGHTERS, is to endevour to find favorable matchups, stay under cover as you advance and try not to take on 2 or 3 bots at a time. The pilot in that video violated two out of three of those principals. I also love at the beginning of the video the other thunder Carnage getting torched by trebs as it moves out to engage the Raijin. LOL! Raijin: Great at eating trebs and shrugging them off. Carnage: Not so much.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 9:05:36 GMT -5
Not to beat dead horse here, just to illustrate point about robot geometry playing big part in a battle: Seriously Russel? A short video of a Carnage distracting a Raijin while the other Blues rockets do the work of killing it? 1) That Raijin pilot was an idiot for crawling along the exposed path to the steps on Shenzhen. That's like strapping a missile magnet to your bot. Particularly as the Reds were winning handily. 2) The Carnage was nearly dead even with the Raijin taking a pounding from Aphids and what looked like Tulu/Pins. As low as his hitpoints were when that Raijin took on that Carnage, if there were no other Blues in the area that Carnage would have died. Over the past few days my thunder Raijin has run into two thunder carnages who decided not to run away. They died. The secret to the thunder Raijin, like SO MANY OTHER KNIFEFIGHTERS, is to endevour to find favorable matchups, stay under cover as you advance and try not to take on 2 or 3 bots at a time. The pilot in that video violated two out of three of those principals. I also love at the beginning of the video the other thunder Carnage getting torched by trebs as it moves out to engage the Raijin. LOL! Raijin: Great at eating trebs and shrugging them off. Carnage: Not so much. Those were Aphids (no splash damage) and 1 pin on Patton. So what we have here: 1) Carnage (no splash) 2) Patton (no splash) 3) 1 Pin on a Patton, I'll throw it into equation 4) Carnage in the open So I am addressing the following statement: "Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game." And posting video showing that lifetime of a Raijin in battle is nowhere near even a minute. And even the "glass canon" bots would make a short work of the bot. Once again, it's lvl10 Raijin vs lvl8 Carnage, so the HP difference is huge. I 100% agree with you that the pilot should not bring the Raijin in the open; but it's not the point here (neither should I ran in a Carnage on the field). The point is that 1 Raijin could NOT hold off several enemies, even if they are lower level support bots, because 2 enemies are rendering his shield virtually useless. So I for once again stand to the point that Raijin could be a midrange\sniper, but never should be equipped as a knifer.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 9:08:17 GMT -5
P.ss Oh, and reds lost in this battle =) But not the point.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 27, 2017 9:21:56 GMT -5
Seriously Russel? A short video of a Carnage distracting a Raijin while the other Blues rockets do the work of killing it? 1) That Raijin pilot was an idiot for crawling along the exposed path to the steps on Shenzhen. That's like strapping a missile magnet to your bot. Particularly as the Reds were winning handily. 2) The Carnage was nearly dead even with the Raijin taking a pounding from Aphids and what looked like Tulu/Pins. As low as his hitpoints were when that Raijin took on that Carnage, if there were no other Blues in the area that Carnage would have died. Over the past few days my thunder Raijin has run into two thunder carnages who decided not to run away. They died. The secret to the thunder Raijin, like SO MANY OTHER KNIFEFIGHTERS, is to endevour to find favorable matchups, stay under cover as you advance and try not to take on 2 or 3 bots at a time. The pilot in that video violated two out of three of those principals. I also love at the beginning of the video the other thunder Carnage getting torched by trebs as it moves out to engage the Raijin. LOL! Raijin: Great at eating trebs and shrugging them off. Carnage: Not so much. Those were Aphids (no splash damage) and 1 pin on Patton. So what we have here: 1) Carnage (no splash) 2) Patton (no splash) 3) 1 Pin on a Patton, I'll throw it into equation 4) Carnage in the open So I am addressing the following statement: "Taking points and holding points , protecting glass cannon bots , tying up enemies trying to kill raijin for 2 or 3 minutes in a 10 minute game." And posting video showing that lifetime of a Raijin in battle is nowhere near even a minute. And even the "glass canon" bots would make a short work of the bot. Once again, it's lvl10 Raijin vs lvl8 Carnage, so the HP difference is huge. I 100% agree with you that the pilot should not bring the Raijin in the open; but it's not the point here (neither should I ran in a Carnage on the field). The point is that 1 Raijin could NOT hold off several enemies, even if they are lower level support bots, because 2 enemies are rendering his shield virtually useless. So I for once again stand to the point that Raijin could be a midrange\sniper, but never should be equipped as a knifer. Just to address your point that the Reds ended up losing this match, no wonder with pilot decisions as we see here! That Raijin wasn't holding anything. He was foolishly trying to advance. In the open. Versus two enemies he is weak against (aphids may not have splash but some will routinely land over the shield) and a third he cannot ignore (the Carnage). That is the lesson here. He was an idiot. Not that the Raijin cannot be an effective knifefighter. If he had instead swung around the back and waited there for a bit (the beacon bar very much in the Red favor despite the 2-3 beacon situation) he very well might have lured one of the four (I'll count the initial foolish Carnage) bots facing him into engaging him back there without support. At close range his thunders would dismember any of the four without much damage and then he reassesses the situation. Instead he chose certain and rapid destruction. If this video proves anything, it's that teamwork is essential to the successful turning around of a losing match.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 27, 2017 9:25:23 GMT -5
Not sure if I posted this in here already in some other form, too busy atm to read back through it and wanted to get this said. My apologies if someone else already brought these points up! Normally I read through the thread all the way before posting... but in a hurry! Like most bots, I truly feel this is situational. Most Raijer pilots don't know the right situations, and most games won't produce those situations, but when the time is right, a Thunder Raijer can change the course of the game. I have been on the winning and the losing side of a Raijer winning the game. My favorite example was two that went up one side of Shenzen's peripheral, in the city... they worked as a team... Each had an Ancile and a Thunder and just supported each other and held ground. Leapfrogged each other... One would engage and enter Bastion, the other would come from a flank to kill the Red, then he would go and take a position while the other moved into the flank position. Was masterful! I would deffo work on tactics like that with someone if they had a Raijer and were willing to go through the rough games of getting it down pat. (Custom games can't come fast enough!) I know it has been said, but any Knifing setup for the Raijer is a TEAM bot. It does its job with a(multiple) supporting bot(s). Solo... well, I kill Raijers solo a lot. But get one that has a great flanker to work with it, and it changes the equation. Especially if there is either an Ancile bot or the Raijer has an Ancile. You have to approach them as a team... and when you are on a random match, rarely do folks try and team up. Especially on maps that have a long way to travel from spawn to get to the action... folks just run to get in as much damage as they can. Just sayin... IMO, YMMV
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 27, 2017 9:30:23 GMT -5
All i saw was a Carnage that survived by the hair of its chinny chin chin because one or two other bots were backstabbing with rockets .
Whats the message here ? Attack Raijin in twos or threes only ? Ummmm thats good advice I guess ?
Why yes I am fine thank you . I have also backstabbed robots being shot by my buddies. How are you ?
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 9:47:23 GMT -5
Well, I just guess that everybody only sees what they wanted to see. I saw a situation where Raijin, if would be replaced by a Lancelot, DB, plasmahad, PDB, or a Rhino - would make short work of two bots attacking him. While Thunder Raijin couldn't, despite having advantage in bot upgrade level and HP pool.
Other than that, I see a video showing that Raijin absolutely could not hold off two enemies on its own. About the case where Raijin can work in a team - well, every bot can. But there are bots that could do so on their own, and there are bots that can work only in a team, called support. While Raijin can serve as support - it absolutely can't achieve anything in a brawl solo.
And it would be exactly the same if he would take back alley. Me and Patton were defending the beacon, and would kill him on the alley in the same 15 seconds or less.
The idea of the story is to warn people from trying to force Raijin in being a knife fighter, backed up by a video, as I still see no video posted here showing how single Raijin can hold anything for 2 minutes.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 27, 2017 14:51:54 GMT -5
Well, I just guess that everybody only sees what they wanted to see. I saw a situation where Raijin, if would be replaced by a Lancelot, DB, plasmahad, PDB, or a Rhino - would make short work of two bots attacking him. While Thunder Raijin couldn't, despite having advantage in bot upgrade level and HP pool. Other than that, I see a video showing that Raijin absolutely could not hold off two enemies on its own. About the case where Raijin can work in a team - well, every bot can. But there are bots that could do so on their own, and there are bots that can work only in a team, called support. While Raijin can serve as support - it absolutely can't achieve anything in a brawl solo. And it would be exactly the same if he would take back alley. Me and Patton were defending the beacon, and would kill him on the alley in the same 15 seconds or less. The idea of the story is to warn people from trying to force Raijin in being a knife fighter, backed up by a video, as I still see no video posted here showing how single Raijin can hold anything for 2 minutes. Russel, I'm going to agree that people only see what they want to see and that goes for you too. Let's talk Rhino. A Rhino, in that video, would have engaged the first Carnage and then yours, all while being slammed by the Pattons. With his shield up, he would have been rapidly flanked by your Carnage while firing back with 2 lights. Shield down and he continues to eat both thunders, all with less HP than the Raijin and while being pelted by the Pattons. Griffin? Even less HP and no shields. Lance? Galahad? Being forced to face your Carnage while having Aphids rain down again with less HP than the Raijin? Sure if the Britbots had plasma they wouldn't have been slowed down by your ancile but your ancile was depleted half way or so before the video even started. I just don't understand where you are coming from. Any bot who decides to take that exposed route and then encounters 2 Carnages (albeit 1 briefly), and two Pattons, one with Aphids, is in for a lot of incoming love. What's so hard about this? The Raijin isn't as bad as you make it out to be, in the mid Leagues. I've posted screenshot after screenshot of victory screens that show my thunder Raijin getting 5 and 6 kills on Dead City, along with assorted beacons. I have screenshots of my thunder Raijin all smoke and flames but with the carcasses of another Raijin, a PDB Griffin and a Golem scattered about it on Shenzhen over on the other side of the map from your video. I used cover and fought them one at a time. I remember lurking about in the alleyways of Powerplant and eating no less than 3 Griffins who decided to drop in for dinner. I survived all game in an Ancile/Thunder Raijin on Canyon with 3 kills, 2 beacons and, IIRC, 370k in damage. From 1 thunder. I ended the game sitting on the Red home beacon. Are there games where my Raijin eats midrange and fireballs long before I get into combat? Sure! Do I encounter intelligent foes who split up and force me to expose my unprotected back to the lesser of two evils? Absolutely! But how is that different from just about every other bot in this game. Why do you, and other posters here, fixate on calling out the Raijin as the 'worst bot in the game' 'any other bot better in any other situation' and so on and so forth. Muhlakai was relentless in his view that in EVERY situation, the thunder Carnage was better. Why then do they keep dying when I run into them? Why do I keep playing a Thunder Raijin if it is so bad? Heck, why do I keep responding to these posts? After all, it is definitely to my advantage that the prophets of the forum keep spouting off about the Raijin being a big Bag O' Silver! Everyone who believes you guys runs right into my guns! Of course, maybe the real question should be "Why do so many bad pilots choose the thunder Raijin?"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 14:58:56 GMT -5
Not to beat dead horse here, just to illustrate point about robot geometry playing big part in a battle: Seriously Russel? A short video of a Carnage distracting a Raijin while the other Blues rockets do the work of killing it? 1) That Raijin pilot was an idiot for crawling along the exposed path to the steps on Shenzhen. That's like strapping a missile magnet to your bot. Particularly as the Reds were winning handily. 2) The Carnage was nearly dead even with the Raijin taking a pounding from Aphids and what looked like Tulu/Pins. As low as his hitpoints were when that Raijin took on that Carnage, if there were no other Blues in the area that Carnage would have died. Over the past few days my thunder Raijin has run into two thunder carnages who decided not to run away. They died. The secret to the thunder Raijin, like SO MANY OTHER KNIFEFIGHTERS, is to endevour to find favorable matchups, stay under cover as you advance and try not to take on 2 or 3 bots at a time. The pilot in that video violated two out of three of those principals. I also love at the beginning of the video the other thunder Carnage getting torched by trebs as it moves out to engage the Raijin. LOL! Raijin: Great at eating trebs and shrugging them off. Carnage: Not so much. This is a poor Raijin pilot. Even with the obvious mistakes listed above, the Raijin should have better 1 v 1 skills. It took him 5 seconds to put up his shield. That's 5 free shots, and he was trying to advance toward a 2x Thunder bot which is a bad idea. His bot is also big, so he should know that Thunders up close will do more damage to him. So how should this be played? The Raijin should have put up his shield immediately. Then he should have single fired his Thunders. The Hydras/Spirals were not going to kill the Raijin, so they should be ignored.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 15:03:50 GMT -5
Well, I just guess that everybody only sees what they wanted to see. I saw a situation where Raijin, if would be replaced by a Lancelot, DB, plasmahad, PDB, or a Rhino - would make short work of two bots attacking him. While Thunder Raijin couldn't, despite having advantage in bot upgrade level and HP pool. Other than that, I see a video showing that Raijin absolutely could not hold off two enemies on its own. About the case where Raijin can work in a team - well, every bot can. But there are bots that could do so on their own, and there are bots that can work only in a team, called support. While Raijin can serve as support - it absolutely can't achieve anything in a brawl solo. And it would be exactly the same if he would take back alley. Me and Patton were defending the beacon, and would kill him on the alley in the same 15 seconds or less. The idea of the story is to warn people from trying to force Raijin in being a knife fighter, backed up by a video, as I still see no video posted here showing how single Raijin can hold anything for 2 minutes. Russel, I'm going to agree that people only see what they want to see and that goes for you too. Let's talk Rhino. A Rhino, in that video, would have engaged the first Carnage and then yours, all while being slammed by the Pattons. With his shield up, he would have been rapidly flanked by your Carnage while firing back with 2 lights. Shield down and he continues to eat both thunders, all with less HP than the Raijin and while being pelted by the Pattons. Griffin? Even less HP and no shields. Lance? Galahad? Being forced to face your Carnage while having Aphids rain down again with less HP than the Raijin? Sure if the Britbots had plasma they wouldn't have been slowed down by your ancile but your ancile was depleted half way or so before the video even started. I just don't understand where you are coming from. Any bot who decides to take that exposed route and then encounters 2 Carnages (albeit 1 briefly), and two Pattons, one with Aphids, is in for a lot of incoming love. What's so hard about this? The Raijin isn't as bad as you make it out to be, in the mid Leagues. I've posted screenshot after screenshot of victory screens that show my thunder Raijin getting 5 and 6 kills on Dead City, along with assorted beacons. I have screenshots of my thunder Raijin all smoke and flames but with the carcasses of another Raijin, a PDB Griffin and a Golem scattered about it on Shenzhen over on the other side of the map from your video. I used cover and fought them one at a time. I remember lurking about in the alleyways of Powerplant and eating no less than 3 Griffins who decided to drop in for dinner. I survived all game in an Ancile/Thunder Raijin on Canyon with 3 kills, 2 beacons and, IIRC, 370k in damage. From 1 thunder. I ended the game sitting on the Red home beacon. Are there games where my Raijin eats midrange and fireballs long before I get into combat? Sure! Do I encounter intelligent foes who split up and force me to expose my unprotected back to the lesser of two evils? Absolutely! But how is that different from just about every other bot in this game. Why do you, and other posters here, fixate on calling out the Raijin as the 'worst bot in the game' 'any other bot better in any other situation' and so on and so forth. Muhlakai was relentless in his view that in EVERY situation, the thunder Carnage was better. Why then do they keep dying when I run into them? Why do I keep playing a Thunder Raijin if it is so bad? Heck, why do I keep responding to these posts? After all, it is definitely to my advantage that the prophets of the forum keep spouting off about the Raijin being a big Bag O' Silver! Everyone who believes you guys runs right into my guns! :D Of course, maybe the real question should be "Why do so many bad pilots choose the thunder Raijin?" ;) In this situation Rhino\Lance would most probably back up to a wall and give plasma to Carnage, killing it pretty fast, while not minding the Aphids. But I give you that it all depends on a pilot.. And I really really don't want tp start a flame war here. That's what my original request for a video was like, because I truly believe that you, being a good pilot, is killing bad pilots with your Raijin. For once more, I don't like to start a flame; please record a good gameplay video with Raijin and put in in the thread. I will use it on the wiki for the Raijin article, as it is VERY controversial at the moment, with all that praise from the fans and passive-aggressive passages from the haters. My idea is to provide "Pros" and "Cons" for everybot, ideally with the short gameplay videos; but not like 99% on the youtube, where youtubers just rolls the bot, gets killed, says "Well, that's how it looked like" and then proceeds to jump in his Griffin for the rest of the match.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 15:30:47 GMT -5
Russel, I'm going to agree that people only see what they want to see and that goes for you too. Let's talk Rhino. A Rhino, in that video, would have engaged the first Carnage and then yours, all while being slammed by the Pattons. With his shield up, he would have been rapidly flanked by your Carnage while firing back with 2 lights. Shield down and he continues to eat both thunders, all with less HP than the RaiI'm a spambotn and while being pelted by the Pattons. Griffin? Even less HP and no shields. Lance? Galahad? Being forced to face your Carnage while having Aphids rain down again with less HP than the RaiI'm a spambotn? Sure if the Britbots had plasma they wouldn't have been slowed down by your ancile but your ancile was depleted half way or so before the video even started. I just don't understand where you are coming from. Any bot who decides to take that exposed route and then encounters 2 Carnages (albeit 1 briefly), and two Pattons, one with Aphids, is in for a lot of incoming love. What's so hard about this? The RaiI'm a spambotn isn't as bad as you make it out to be, in the mid Leagues. I've posted screenshot after screenshot of victory screens that show my thunder RaiI'm a spambotn getting 5 and 6 kills on Dead City, along with assorted beacons. I have screenshots of my thunder RaiI'm a spambotn all smoke and flames but with the carcasses of another RaiI'm a spambotn, a PDB Griffin and a Golem scattered about it on Shenzhen over on the other side of the map from your video. I used cover and fought them one at a time. I remember lurking about in the alleyways of Powerplant and eating no less than 3 Griffins who decided to drop in for dinner. I survived all game in an Ancile/Thunder RaiI'm a spambotn on Canyon with 3 kills, 2 beacons and, IIRC, 370k in damage. From 1 thunder. I ended the game sitting on the Red home beacon. Are there games where my RaiI'm a spambotn eats midrange and fireballs long before I get into combat? Sure! Do I encounter intelligent foes who split up and force me to expose my unprotected back to the lesser of two evils? Absolutely! But how is that different from just about every other bot in this game. Why do you, and other posters here, fixate on calling out the RaiI'm a spambotn as the 'worst bot in the game' 'any other bot better in any other situation' and so on and so forth. Muhlakai was relentless in his view that in EVERY situation, the thunder Carnage was better. Why then do they keep dying when I run into them? Why do I keep playing a Thunder RaiI'm a spambotn if it is so bad? Heck, why do I keep responding to these posts? After all, it is definitely to my advantage that the prophets of the forum keep spouting off about the RaiI'm a spambotn being a big Bag O' Silver! Everyone who believes you guys runs right into my guns! Of course, maybe the real question should be "Why do so many bad pilots choose the thunder RaiI'm a spambotn?" In this situation Rhino\Lance would most probably back up to a wall and give plasma to Carnage, killing it pretty fast, while not minding the Aphids. But I give you that it all depends on a pilot.. And I really really don't want tp start a flame war here. That's what my original request for a video was like, because I truly believe that you, being a good pilot, is killing bad pilots with your RaiI'm a spambotn. For once more, I don't like to start a flame; please record a good gameplay video with RaiI'm a spambotn and put in in the thread. I will use it on the wiki for the RaiI'm a spambotn article, as it is VERY controversial at the moment, with all that praise from the fans and passive-aggressive passages from the haters. My idea is to provide "Pros" and "Cons" for everybot, ideally with the short gameplay videos; but not like 99% on the youtube, where youtubers just rolls the bot, gets killed, says "Well, that's how it looked like" and then proceeds to jump in his Griffin for the rest of the match. That pilot was pretty poor. I'm pretty sure he would have died in his Rhino. This is usually what happens when you have a Raijin vs Carnage face-off when I pilot the Raijin. I see Carnage approaching, so I immediately put up my shield. He approaches even closer, so he tries to flank me. He gets a surprise when I turn my turret to keep my shield in front of him. My Thunder (usually single since I run Thunder/Ancile) finishes him off at this close range. If I were to critique such poor Carnage pilots and their mistakes, those Carnage pilots think I am a Rhino so try to flank. Second, they get really close making it easier for my Thunders to kill him. Trust me, I've seen many poor Carnage pilots try this exact same strategy and it doesn't work.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 15:49:26 GMT -5
In this situation Rhino\Lance would most probably back up to a wall and give plasma to Carnage, killing it pretty fast, while not minding the Aphids. But I give you that it all depends on a pilot.. And I really really don't want tp start a flame war here. That's what my original request for a video was like, because I truly believe that you, being a good pilot, is killing bad pilots with your RaiI'm a spambotn. For once more, I don't like to start a flame; please record a good gameplay video with RaiI'm a spambotn and put in in the thread. I will use it on the wiki for the RaiI'm a spambotn article, as it is VERY controversial at the moment, with all that praise from the fans and passive-aggressive passages from the haters. My idea is to provide "Pros" and "Cons" for everybot, ideally with the short gameplay videos; but not like 99% on the youtube, where youtubers just rolls the bot, gets killed, says "Well, that's how it looked like" and then proceeds to jump in his Griffin for the rest of the match. That pilot was pretty poor. I'm pretty sure he would have died in his Rhino. This is usually what happens when you have a RaiI'm a spambotn vs Carnage face-off when I pilot the RaiI'm a spambotn. I see Carnage approaching, so I immediately put up my shield. He approaches even closer, so he tries to flank me. He gets a surprise when I turn my turret to keep my shield in front of him. My Thunder (usually single since I run Thunder/Ancile) finishes him off at this close range. If I were to critique such poor Carnage pilots and their mistakes, those Carnage pilots think I am a Rhino so try to flank. Second, they get really close making it easier for my Thunders to kill him. Trust me, I've seen many poor Carnage pilots try this exact same strategy and it doesn't work. First of all, really strange things happened to the name of the bot in this thread. o_O Secondly, I honestly agree to your POV on bad Carnage pilots. I've seen TONS of ranting about "Carnage need to be stronger\faster\more ancile\more oomph", so I can relate to the same situation with the (I'm afraid to type the name here not to be replaced with a spam). So once again, to differentiate bad piloting from a bad robot - please post a video with good piloting against at least somewhat adept enemies, it would end the discussion once and for all, and your video would be published on a wiki, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:10:55 GMT -5
RaiI'm a spambotn is more useful now due to the heavy sniper fest. Games are a laser light show, and rockets are everywhere. It took me 2 bots to get 1 beacon since no one else wanted to get it. My worst game ever, and then my night went downhill after that. My whole team is camping most games, so I have to suicide my bots to get 1 beacon for us. I haven't used the sniper RaiI'm a spambotn to counter, instead tried the Zenit to go after the campers but it was only good at getting 1 Fury hiding per game. Completely different situation here in Diamond2 :-D Haven't seen ANY Trebuchet for two days already, and no Gekkos too. Usually a rocket fest. I don't know what happened, but 3 blues were camping by the far home beacon on Canyon and did not get it. I got the more exposed home beacon in my Fujin, so I crawled my way over towards the other beacon. It wasn't until 2 and 1/2 minutes into the game, that someone respawned and went to grab it. I took 2 screenshots, 1 with 3 blues camped right next to it, but ooo so outside its range. And 1 when another blue came to cap it. What's going on here? I checked, and they had no caps that match (the 3 blues milling around) and were low Expert. Anyways, I switched out one of my bots for the big spider bot after this fiasco. I didn't want a repeat of last night, and waste 2 bots trying to get our home beacon. Seriously had good games for 1 hour, then lost all my points in a few games due to raging at stupid teammates. In case you didn't know, the big spider bot can usually push any reds off a beacon. Or its big health pool can help it get a suicide beacon without wasting 2 bots.
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 17:14:18 GMT -5
Completely different situation here in Diamond2 :-D Haven't seen ANY Trebuchet for two days already, and no Gekkos too. Usually a rocket fest. I don't know what happened, but 3 blues were camping by the far home beacon on Canyon and did not get it. I got the more exposed home beacon in my FuI'm a spambotn, so I crawled my way over towards the other beacon. It wasn't until 2 and 1/2 minutes into the game, that someone respawned and went to grab it. I took 2 screenshots, 1 with 3 blues camped right next to it, but ooo so outside its range. And 1 when another blue came to cap it. What's going on here? I checked, and they had no caps that match (the 3 blues milling around) and were low Expert. Anyways, I switched out one of my bots for the big spider bot after this fiasco. I didn't want a repeat of last night, and waste 2 bots trying to get our home beacon. Seriously had good games for 1 hour, then lost all my points in a few games due to raging at stupid teammates. In case you didn't know, the big spider bot can usually push any reds off a beacon. Or its big health pool can help it get a suicide beacon without wasting 2 bots. Are you seeing what I seeing it this thread? With part of spider bots changed with "I AM A SPAM BOT"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:20:26 GMT -5
I don't know what happened, but 3 blues were camping by the far home beacon on Canyon and did not get it. I got the more exposed home beacon in my FuI'm a spambotn, so I crawled my way over towards the other beacon. It wasn't until 2 and 1/2 minutes into the game, that someone respawned and went to grab it. I took 2 screenshots, 1 with 3 blues camped right next to it, but ooo so outside its range. And 1 when another blue came to cap it. What's going on here? I checked, and they had no caps that match (the 3 blues milling around) and were low Expert. Anyways, I switched out one of my bots for the big spider bot after this fiasco. I didn't want a repeat of last night, and waste 2 bots trying to get our home beacon. Seriously had good games for 1 hour, then lost all my points in a few games due to raging at stupid teammates. In case you didn't know, the big spider bot can usually push any reds off a beacon. Or its big health pool can help it get a suicide beacon without wasting 2 bots. Are you seeing what I seeing it this thread? With part of spider bots changed with "I AM A SPAM BOT"? Yes. I don't know what happened? Did the forums get hacked?
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Post by Russel on Jun 27, 2017 17:32:24 GMT -5
I think it has something to do with anti-spam system.
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Post by Strayed on Jun 27, 2017 20:13:47 GMT -5
I messed up with some of the background stuff, should be fixed now.
Raijin
Fujin
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 27, 2017 21:30:33 GMT -5
Russel, I'm going to agree that people only see what they want to see and that goes for you too. Let's talk Rhino. A Rhino, in that video, would have engaged the first Carnage and then yours, all while being slammed by the Pattons. With his shield up, he would have been rapidly flanked by your Carnage while firing back with 2 lights. Shield down and he continues to eat both thunders, all with less HP than the Raijin and while being pelted by the Pattons. Griffin? Even less HP and no shields. Lance? Galahad? Being forced to face your Carnage while having Aphids rain down again with less HP than the Raijin? Sure if the Britbots had plasma they wouldn't have been slowed down by your ancile but your ancile was depleted half way or so before the video even started. I just don't understand where you are coming from. Any bot who decides to take that exposed route and then encounters 2 Carnages (albeit 1 briefly), and two Pattons, one with Aphids, is in for a lot of incoming love. What's so hard about this? The Raijin isn't as bad as you make it out to be, in the mid Leagues. I've posted screenshot after screenshot of victory screens that show my thunder Raijin getting 5 and 6 kills on Dead City, along with assorted beacons. I have screenshots of my thunder Raijin all smoke and flames but with the carcasses of another Raijin, a PDB Griffin and a Golem scattered about it on Shenzhen over on the other side of the map from your video. I used cover and fought them one at a time. I remember lurking about in the alleyways of Powerplant and eating no less than 3 Griffins who decided to drop in for dinner. I survived all game in an Ancile/Thunder Raijin on Canyon with 3 kills, 2 beacons and, IIRC, 370k in damage. From 1 thunder. I ended the game sitting on the Red home beacon. Are there games where my Raijin eats midrange and fireballs long before I get into combat? Sure! Do I encounter intelligent foes who split up and force me to expose my unprotected back to the lesser of two evils? Absolutely! But how is that different from just about every other bot in this game. Why do you, and other posters here, fixate on calling out the Raijin as the 'worst bot in the game' 'any other bot better in any other situation' and so on and so forth. Muhlakai was relentless in his view that in EVERY situation, the thunder Carnage was better. Why then do they keep dying when I run into them? Why do I keep playing a Thunder Raijin if it is so bad? Heck, why do I keep responding to these posts? After all, it is definitely to my advantage that the prophets of the forum keep spouting off about the Raijin being a big Bag O' Silver! Everyone who believes you guys runs right into my guns! Of course, maybe the real question should be "Why do so many bad pilots choose the thunder Raijin?" In this situation Rhino\Lance would most probably back up to a wall and give plasma to Carnage, killing it pretty fast, while not minding the Aphids. But I give you that it all depends on a pilot.. And I really really don't want tp start a flame war here. That's what my original request for a video was like, because I truly believe that you, being a good pilot, is killing bad pilots with your Raijin. For once more, I don't like to start a flame; please record a good gameplay video with Raijin and put in in the thread. I will use it on the wiki for the Raijin article, as it is VERY controversial at the moment, with all that praise from the fans and passive-aggressive passages from the haters. My idea is to provide "Pros" and "Cons" for everybot, ideally with the short gameplay videos; but not like 99% on the youtube, where youtubers just rolls the bot, gets killed, says "Well, that's how it looked like" and then proceeds to jump in his Griffin for the rest of the match. We are absolutely not flaming each other, nor am I too interested in that. I can disagree with a pov and happily yet strenuously argue against it without stooping to that. However, I have neither the inclination nor the means to record a video of my gameplay. I can understand my screenshots meaning little as anyone can pose a screenie and claim whatever they like. I'm going to take the stance of agreeing to disagree and let my part in this discussion end until such time as someone sets me off again and I just can't control myself!
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 28, 2017 6:32:55 GMT -5
A Raijin fact you can paste on Robo Wiki .
No, but seriously..... With the possible slim exception of a Triple Trident Fury , no bot can beat a Raijin in a one vs one , equal range dual . Your best answer to Rajiins shield is a missile . Your best missile is short range orkan which is a joke up against Thunders or Zues .
Any Bot you pit against Raijin will fall short of either weapon points or armour . Lucky that you can just win a game by hopping into a light bot and stealing beacons . Thats your only viable solution .
But yes the lines are drawn , no party can convince the other . Each to their own . As far as i am concerned the Robot that gets the nerf is the superior one . Whatever weapon that was buffed say for example "missiles" was inferior .
Good luck to whomever bot gets a nerf next patch to end this argument .
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jun 28, 2017 9:14:14 GMT -5
All i saw was a Carnage that survived by the hair of its chinny chin chin because one or two other bots were backstabbing with rockets . Whats the message here ? Attack Raijin in twos or threes only ? Ummmm thats good advice I guess ? Why yes I am fine thank you . I have also backstabbed robots being shot by my buddies. How are you ? You say all these things like they're some sort of poor, rarely used, effectless strategy. All these points are actually the point, many lessons to be taken to heart, even if you are choosing to only acknowledge your side and not apply these pearls elsewhere. If you engage 1v1 you're doing it wrong. If you don't "backstab" when you have the opportunity, you're doing it wrong. One of the best tactics that anyyone can employ is engaging your opponents with favorable odds. 2v1, 3v2., etc. Many of the ideas that get shot down here are for exactly that reason. You may not be using or seeing this where you are, but as you rise in leagues, you will. And if you're in a raijiin, it will be used against you, constantly. To those whose win % is suffering, I'd look here first. You will not survive, plain and simple. The other team willing be falling all over each other trying to get to you, and they will do it over and over, rendering the time and silver invested in such a poor choice worthless, time and money poorly spent. Raijiin is barely capable of holding its own in a 1v1 with rockets of any kind. Add 2 to the mix and it's just a slow moving easy pile of silver and a dead bot in your hangar. And that is how you will be engaged, 2v1 or more. It's not like you can keep up with the pack, and no One will wait for your slow ?bum-bum? to catch up, there beacons to cap and bots to kill. And to top it all off there isn't a map in existence that the raijiin shines on. Moon map alone shows the glaring weakness of this bot. What are you going to do, guard center alley? Take a side beacon in the 3 days it will take you to get there? God forbid if you have a long range bot as well, like a fury in your lineup, because congratulations, now on maps like Moon map, dead city and power plant you've essentially made yourself a 3 slot hangar. Great. And as far as no bot being able to go 1v1, 2/3 of my hangar would like to have some sharp and cruel words with you. And the other 1/3 wont care either, ill just bring friends, like i should. And again, you've missed the point. I cant remember the last time I died in a 1v1 duel, and not because I don't engage in them, but because outside of midrange, they don't exist. They sit on the top shelf next to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. They don't exist unless you let them, and if you let them you're doing it wrong. No, until they do something with the raijiin there isn't a setup that exists to make it good enough to sink any effort into improving it.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 28, 2017 10:01:24 GMT -5
A Raijin fact you can paste on Robo Wiki . No, but seriously..... With the possible slim exception of a Triple Trident Fury , no bot can beat a Raijin in a one vs one , equal range dual . Your best answer to Rajiins shield is a missile . Your best missile is short range orkan which is a joke up against Thunders or Zues . Any Bot you pit against Raijin will fall short of either weapon points or armour . Lucky that you can just win a game by hopping into a light bot and stealing beacons . Thats your only viable solution . But yes the lines are drawn , no party can convince the other . Each to their own . As far as i am concerned the Robot that gets the nerf is the superior one . Whatever weapon that was buffed say for example "missiles" was inferior . Good luck to whomever bot gets a nerf next patch to end this argument . I have to say that these are MIGHTY bold words... Being a fan of alternate builds and liking the idea of a good Raijer pilot does not mean that I won't point out fallacies. This sentence: is an absolute crock. I cant tell if you're trolling or serious now. Bots I remember off the top of my head that I have used to beat a Thunder Raijer with... 1v1: 1.) Thundorken Lance 2.) Aphid Patton 3.) Splash Gary 4.) Splashahad 5.) Plasma Gary 6.) DB 7.) RDB 8.) Carny Thunder Now, I was using every ounce of tactical advantage that I could... no matter what it was... hiding, feinting, waiting till he looked away, circling, strafing, using cover, whatever I could. The only thing I can think of that fits what you are trying to say, is: if, on open ground... no cover... two bots were to be stuck at say, 250m, and had to just stand there and shoot each other... the Raijer would win against bots that have lower HP and all that... if so... OK, I'll give you that. Here's why that has absolutely no basis in the game... an encounter that is as close to a 1v1 duel that you will find in a 6v6 battle. In DC, in a TO Lance, I saw a Raijer of the Thunder variety, across the crater from me... he set up in Bastion mode right on the rim so he could cover the whole of the bowl. I just decided to rush him after he took out a poor Griff that wasn't watching what was going on but had just liberated, although had not taken, the center beacon. He noticed me about 1/3 of the way across and started shooting his Thunders. I love lancey-poo's shield... I held my fire till I got right up on him. I opened fire as I climbed up the front of him. I ended up almost on top of him, with my Thunder blasting down over the top of his shield. My Orks were spread far enough that they weren't blocked by the shield, not that that mattered because... ORKS!... but Tarans would have cleared the shields on the sides and been able to hit the flanks due to the wideness of the Lancey-Poo's body. They don't call him Chubby because he gives them to people, it's because he really is chubby! Guess what... being that close to him and directly in front of him... his shield was blocking his own Thunders. This isn't an unknown thing either. It has been an issue for a while. Raijer is not meant to be a solo duelist. Sure, he can do it when conditions are right, all bots can. But he won't do it most of the time. I still had 95% of my health and I don't think even one of my shields were blown away at the end of that. This was pre-orkbuff, btw. That said, I will repeat, IMO Raijer is strong as a team support bot if used close range. With Ancile(s) especially. NOT as a 1v1 dueler. It can be good with dual Thunders at a built up choke-point with team mates to provide both Ancile coverage and that can flank Reds that are attacking it... or it can act as the Anvil for a DB or RDB's hammer to turn a Red into hamburger. Great info flowing back and forth though, in most of this thread, and I like to see folk stand up for the bots they like to play... and I agree that every bot piloted by a good pilot has a chance to win any battle. But I also don't want an entire argument to lose credibility because of a false statement. If I misunderstood the idea, however, please correct me if you would, good sir. IMO, YMMV
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 28, 2017 10:20:31 GMT -5
I just had a game on Dead City too in iOS Gold1. I started with my 8/8 DB Griffin. The Reds pushed right through center and onto our front porch. I managed to get 2 kills before I went down. I dropped in my 7/6 thunder Raijin. We were down 1-4 on beacons. First I moved to the right where a Red Leo and Gareth were holding our side beacon being harassed by a Spiral Patton. After clearing that out (the poor Gareth was running around the building I climbed over, he never saw it coming) I rumbled across to the left and then back through center, then over to the right again, then to the center, avoiding a DB Rhino in the process and zeroing in, separately on a pair of taran Fujins. By the time the Raijin gave up the ghost on the far side of the central crater I had scored 6 more kills and flipped 3 beacons. We were still losing on beacon bar but they were down 4 bots to 6. I dropped in my 7/8 Thunder/Mag Leo. We maintained our 2 bot lead all the way to the end, taking a 4-1 lead on the beacons and winning the match. Summary: iOS Gold1, Dead City 1st: DB Griffin, 2 kills 2nd: Thunder Raijin, 6 kills, 3 beacons 3rd: Thunder/Mag Leo, 2 kills, 1 beacon Victory I do wish I was able to video it, because using cover and avoiding unfavorable matchups was key to it, as it always is in every bot.
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Post by Russel on Jun 28, 2017 10:41:54 GMT -5
I just had a game on Dead City too in iOS Gold1. I started with my 8/8 DB Griffin. The Reds pushed right through center and onto our front porch. I managed to get 2 kills before I went down. I dropped in my 7/6 thunder Raijin. We were down 1-4 on beacons. First I moved to the right where a Red Leo and Gareth were holding our side beacon being harassed by a Spiral Patton. After clearing that out (the poor Gareth was running around the building I climbed over, he never saw it coming) I rumbled across to the left and then back through center, then over to the right again, then to the center, avoiding a DB Rhino in the process and zeroing in, separately on a pair of taran Fujins. By the time the Raijin gave up the ghost on the far side of the central crater I had scored 6 more kills and flipped 3 beacons. We were still losing on beacon bar but they were down 4 bots to 6. I dropped in my 7/8 Thunder/Mag Leo. We maintained our 2 bot lead all the way to the end, taking a 4-1 lead on the beacons and winning the match. Summary: iOS Gold1, Dead City 1st: DB Griffin, 2 kills 2nd: Thunder Raijin, 6 kills, 3 beacons 3rd: Thunder/Mag Leo, 2 kills, 1 beacon Victory I do wish I was able to video it, because using cover and avoiding unfavorable matchups was key to it, as it always is in every bot. Why don't you like to get a video? :(
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jun 28, 2017 11:08:03 GMT -5
I do wish I was able to video it, because using cover and avoiding unfavorable matchups was key to it, as it always is in every bot. Why don't you like to get a video? Like's got little to do with it. I'm 52, married, small kids, play to have fun, not much storage on this iPad, crappy WinXP laptop as my home computer, no money to get a new machine, house needs a roof and siding, no YouTube account, no real wish to create one, don't know how to record game play in the first place. I think that covers it.
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Post by Russel on Jun 28, 2017 11:22:00 GMT -5
Why don't you like to get a video? :( Like's got little to do with it. I'm 52, married, small kids, play to have fun, not much storage on this iPad, crappy WinXP laptop as my home computer, no money to get a new machine, house needs a roof and siding, no YouTube account, no real wish to create one, don't know how to record game play in the first place. I think that covers it. :) Fair enough :-D
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 28, 2017 12:00:20 GMT -5
I tell you what... I have no reason to stress my league, nor my stats, so I am going to put my 1 Raijer that I won in an event in my hangar, load it up with either Ancile/Thunder or Thunder Thunder, and play it. I will record and upload any matches that have a significant amount of the Raijer in them, and post it here. Whether they be bad or good. I will not smurf my play, and will try to do as well as I can with it.
Transparency:
*Raijer is level 8. 2x Thunders are lvl 9. Ancile is 9.
*I am on Android.
*I am on the border of Gold 1 again, 2 points below it in Gold 2. (IDC about that as far as the league in and of itself, but it should be noted to explain the competition's level and average skill level for those who are curious and are familiar with Android Gold.)
*I have very little experience with this bot and 0 experience with any weapon other than Zeuses while using it.
*It may take a couple of days to get anything recorded that is worth posting up.
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Post by elcheapo on Jul 2, 2017 6:30:43 GMT -5
Yesterday I had a perfect Raijin game on Yamantau map . My Blue Ancile / Zues "waddled" over and plonked down and camped in centre for 8 mins . At least 3 or 4 team mates enjoyed my umbrella , hid behind my my fat bum when I shielded up and poked out again when forcefield recharged . They rained plasma and rockets on anyone stupid enough to get close. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why can you not understand this basic military concept ? Stop using the word TANK for trolls who quit , its confusing you . My new paintjob !!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 17:00:25 GMT -5
Yesterday I had a perfect Raijin game on Yamantau map . My Blue Ancile / Zues "waddled" over and plonked down and camped in centre for 8 mins . At least 3 or 4 team mates enjoyed my umbrella , hid behind my my fat bum when I shielded up and poked out again when forcefield recharged . They rained plasma and rockets on anyone stupid enough to get close. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why can you not understand this basic military concept ? Stop using the word TANK for trolls who quit , its confusing you . My new paintjob !!! I was in my knifer, Ancilot, and dropped on Canyon. Strolled up to their base, and saw 5 campers. Lots of bright lights huddled together. Most of them hid behind a Raijin in Bastion mode, and I tried to shoot at the ones moving about in the open trying to get to cover. I couldn't hit anything since the targeting system was so wonky. Seems like it has a habit of selecting everything but what I want. By the time I got the target, then he was under cover and then repeat so it was stupid. Then died miserably somehow without inflicting much damage. Safety in numbers lol? I can't believe I didn't kill or hurt anybody. This was with Master/ Champions so I was surprised to see a Treb Raijin. He was level 1 bot, level 1 weapons for some reason and protected all the cowards. No one even ejected to try and get me.
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