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Post by Russel on Jun 10, 2017 17:59:43 GMT -5
Hello, guys. Of course, I am the all-knowing, widely acclaimed, omnipotent expert in WarRobots Universe. Thank you, all, you can just call me Russel. However, even I was puzzled by a robot called Raijin, so I would humbly accept your reasonable input on this one. I can say that I am little bit biased here, due to the following facts: 1) I just LOVE Raijin's design. Imho it's awesome. Only Fujin is awesomer (can I say that? Or should I use "more awesome"? Oh, by the way, did you knew that originally, both " awful" and " awesome" had the meaning of being awe-inspiring (including positive connotations), as well as "worthy of, or commanding, profound respect or reverential fear"?) Oops, sorry, drifted off-topic here. 2) I got Mitsudomoe Raijin from the event, and another Raijin from a chest. So I got two of them almost for free, and free stuff can't be bad, right? Finally moving to the question: Is Raijin really really useless?I manged to kill Raijins with my Leo, with my RDB (prior to buff), with TuluDoc (prior and after the buff), and today I killed Thunder\Zeus Raijin on Canyon with my Doc. It's all good and games, but the fact is my Orkans are 6,6,7,8, and Doc is lvl5, and Raijin was 8\8. Seriously, but c'mon. How underleveled guy could destroy mobile fortress in a Canyon Standoff? Really? And I could never pilot Raijin good. The main drawbacks are: - Too slow, take ages to move into position (not talking even about trying to dodge something)
- Clunky legs, you get stuck easily
- Somewhat underpowered to my liking
- Weapon slots are way far apart from each other to be effectively used in close fight, and
- Legs are mounted so wide that corner shooting is a joke
- Big frame, collect ALL the bullets from the battlefield
- Bastion mode is very slow to turn on\off
- Once in Bastion and under fire - you cannot retreat due to p.1, p.6, p.7
- Shields are far too narrow, could be flanked and shot right in the belly
So, as my experience in a game is limited to D2 League on iOS, I would like to hear opinions of guys from Android Gold2+ and\or Diamond iOS:
What am I doing wrong, and\or is this bot really really really suck and even Natasha\Carnage is better?
(ah, well, this IS the correct and final question) 1. No, the Raijin is not useless. 2. You'll need to show some vid of your playstyle, and we can critique it. But first, what is your Raijin level, and what weapons are you using with it and their levels. I wouldn't look to Diamond league for how useful the Raijin is. There are a lot of bad Raijin users in general. I play in iOS Expert/Diamond, so I see them all the time in Diamond. I don't see any Raijin in Expert. One time I saw a Raijin park next to mine, and he put himself in Bastion mode. We both climbed on top of a ridge, but I was not using Bastion mode so I could move freely and dodge rockets. Trust me, I've gone 1-on-1 against Champion players (I look at the profile after the match, and Expert is lumped with Champion sometimes), so Raijin can go toe to toe with Fury Tridents and RDB Griffins. Yes, I read your discussion in the wiki last night, and as you know already, the Raijin has 50% more hit point while the Fury has 50% more firepower so it's up to the skill of the pilot. In Diamond, I find my Raijin performs fine at level 5 thru 7 as I was leveling it. My 2x Tridents were at level 10. Pilots don't generally have the skill or firepower to take down a Raijin in Diamond if you pilot it right. I already have a detailed post I created on my playstyle so you can read it if you haven't already. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/7553/raijinIn Expert, I find that my underleveled Raijin doesn't cut it. I need my Raijin up to par, so it's almost at level 9 now. Almost everyone I face has weapons and bots maxed out or at level 11, so even a lucky shot can seriously cripple my Raijin. There's such a huge difference in skill between Diamond and Expert. I can hide on the ridge on Moon map, and 9/10 times Diamond players will not notice me. In Expert, I'll usually be the one surprised by a jumping RDB while I am already fighting another Fury. Diamond brawlers will usually ignore me (or not notice me?) while Expert guys will bring out their long range and hunt me down on my perch. So lots of times, it's a tense stand off that last a few minutes where we both both duck in and out of cover and take potshots at each other, but usually it's me vs 2 or 3 other long range who see me as free silver. Very good thread you have on a Raijin, indeed. I actually was saying "Yes! This!" when I read "So with 2 Raijins, it allows me to run them in tandem and get a feel of the bot faster.". I am currently doing the same, but with Doc\Jesse hangar. I would like to get one or even both of them to my regular hangar, but haven't decided which config yet. And running 2xDoc and 3xJesse is helping me to understand those quirky bots a lot (offtopic: I found that Aphid Jesse is not the best config to my liking, surprisingly.) And on my Raijin play - I need to wait until next iOS test server. My Raijins are free from Chests, so they are lvl 2 and 3, I think it's no point using them at this level. And I'm not sure I can get accustomed to quadropods, so I postpone upgrading them for now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 19:19:16 GMT -5
Think of it this way, no one can push you around so if you sit and park on centre beacon of Springfield, no red is gonna stand next to you and take a Thunder in the face. They have to basically kill you to take that beacon back, and that will require a coordinated attack, plus they need to use more than weak light and medium bots. On powerplant, it's natural to sit at one of the beacons and wait for them. Again, it's gonna be very hard for them to take you down. You can usually fend off 2-3 reds by yourself. Not at the same time, but if they come one by one. They can't push you off the beacon, so you can basically defend 2 beacons by yourself (the beach one and one in narrow corridor). If multiple reds come, usually I can hang on until reinforcements come. For Shenzhen, I'll actually camp at the side beacon that no one wants to go to (the one by the blue building). Usually one guy will come, and so it only takes one person to defend it. I may not do much if no one comes by, but the rest of my team usually can control the other beacons. The shields of a Raijin seems to give better protection, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It seems to protect my flank a little more, so the red needs to be at more of an angle to hit my exposed flank. Raijin is better in the rocket age. More hit points means that the Raijin can survive longer, That might be another thing, the pop off rate of its weapons. I think these are the points I was waiting for, thank you a lot. I'll just sum it up, please correct me if I'm wrong: 1) Shortrange flanking that usually works against Lance\Rhino is not working against Raijin 2) It's best shortrange use is to hog beacon (I am still not convinced that hogging a beacon is a good idea in general, but nevertheless) 3) Angle of protection might be wider (I tend to believe that, because shield is curved, and Brit\Rhino shields are flat) 4) More hitpoints make it's better protected against splash 5) Weapon pop off rate is low (again, need some kind of proof for this one) 6) It can climb and make attack from weird angles enemies are not used to defend from While I find practicality of some of these somewhat doubtful to me, I will not argue this without testing out for myself. So please correct\add to this list if I've missed\misunderstood something Yea, basically. Biggest thing I'd add is that when its dangling off the top of a building, it can duck back down to avoid plasma and rocket fire. Yea, I'm testing out the Thunder/Ancile Raijin now. I was just seeing how it performs since people on my Raijin thread were using this configuration. I don't have any Zeus to try out.
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Post by procrastinatron on Jun 11, 2017 2:10:23 GMT -5
Raijin along with other WSP bots are skill-intensive. Most raijins i see are piloted really poorly and becomes a rocket tampon. Have a good pilot drive a raijin and it becomes another bot entirely.
However, even if one mastered the raijin and figured every special forces elite ninja moves i doubt it could be any more useful than a griffin piloted averagely.
I know they are not intended to fill the same role, since one relies on mobility and another on durability. The sad truth is the way War Robots works favor mobility greatly. Maybe this will change when beacon rush mode goes live.
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Post by Russel on Jun 11, 2017 2:13:28 GMT -5
Raijin along with other WSP bots are skill-intensive. Most raijins i see are piloted really poorly and becomes a rocket tampon. Have a good pilot drive a raijin and it becomes another bot entirely. However, even if one mastered the raijin and figured every special forces elite ninja moves i doubt it could be any more useful than a griffin piloted averagely. I know they are not intended to fill the same role, since one relies on mobility and another on durability. The sad truth is the way War Robots works favor mobility greatly. Maybe this will change when beacon rush mode goes live. Almost exactly what I think. Mobility+damage is a king, and it almost doesn't matter how durable you are.
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Post by procrastinatron on Jun 11, 2017 2:53:10 GMT -5
Raijin along with other WSP bots are skill-intensive. Most raijins i see are piloted really poorly and becomes a rocket tampon. Have a good pilot drive a raijin and it becomes another bot entirely. However, even if one mastered the raijin and figured every special forces elite ninja moves i doubt it could be any more useful than a griffin piloted averagely. I know they are not intended to fill the same role, since one relies on mobility and another on durability. The sad truth is the way War Robots works favor mobility greatly. Maybe this will change when beacon rush mode goes live. Almost exactly what I think. Mobility+damage is a king, and it almost doesn't matter how durable you are. Durability matters, but the damage output has to balance it out. Hence the popularity of tarancilots. Raijin using 1 heavy hardpoint will not deal enough damage to defend a beacon well compared to 2 medium slots of an ancilot.
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Post by Alanbit on Jun 11, 2017 2:59:16 GMT -5
Think of it this way, no one can push you around so if you sit and park on centre beacon of Springfield, no red is gonna stand next to you and take a Thunder in the face. They have to basically kill you to take that beacon back, and that will require a coordinated attack, plus they need to use more than weak light and medium bots. On powerplant, it's natural to sit at one of the beacons and wait for them. Again, it's gonna be very hard for them to take you down. You can usually fend off 2-3 reds by yourself. Not at the same time, but if they come one by one. They can't push you off the beacon, so you can basically defend 2 beacons by yourself (the beach one and one in narrow corridor). If multiple reds come, usually I can hang on until reinforcements come. For Shenzhen, I'll actually camp at the side beacon that no one wants to go to (the one by the blue building). Usually one guy will come, and so it only takes one person to defend it. I may not do much if no one comes by, but the rest of my team usually can control the other beacons. The shields of a Raijin seems to give better protection, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It seems to protect my flank a little more, so the red needs to be at more of an angle to hit my exposed flank. Raijin is better in the rocket age. More hit points means that the Raijin can survive longer, That might be another thing, the pop off rate of its weapons. I think these are the points I was waiting for, thank you a lot. I'll just sum it up, please correct me if I'm wrong: 1) Shortrange flanking that usually works against Lance\Rhino is not working against Raijin 2) It's best shortrange use is to hog beacon (I am still not convinced that hogging a beacon is a good idea in general, but nevertheless) 3) Angle of protection might be wider (I tend to believe that, because shield is curved, and Brit\Rhino shields are flat) 4) More hitpoints make it's better protected against splash 5) Weapon pop off rate is low (again, need some kind of proof for this one) 6) It can climb and make attack from weird angles enemies are not used to defend from While I find practicality of some of these somewhat doubtful to me, I will not argue this without testing out for myself. So please correct\add to this list if I've missed\misunderstood something Good point, Raijin is a good beacon defender. It has its weak side also. I personally, when piloting my orkan rogatka, love to find one in bastion mode... I'd like to open a sub-question here. You, Raijin pilots, do you find its climbing skill is good enough? Imho it should be better, it should be able to climb higher buildings and save all the gradients.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 3:23:11 GMT -5
I think these are the points I was waiting for, thank you a lot. I'll just sum it up, please correct me if I'm wrong: 1) Shortrange flanking that usually works against Lance\Rhino is not working against Raijin 2) It's best shortrange use is to hog beacon (I am still not convinced that hogging a beacon is a good idea in general, but nevertheless) 3) Angle of protection might be wider (I tend to believe that, because shield is curved, and Brit\Rhino shields are flat) 4) More hitpoints make it's better protected against splash 5) Weapon pop off rate is low (again, need some kind of proof for this one) 6) It can climb and make attack from weird angles enemies are not used to defend from While I find practicality of some of these somewhat doubtful to me, I will not argue this without testing out for myself. So please correct\add to this list if I've missed\misunderstood something Good point, Raijin is a good beacon defender. It has its weak side also. I personally, when piloting my orkan rogatka, love to find one in bastion mode... I'd like to open a sub-question here. You, Raijin pilots, do you find its climbing skill is good enough? Imho it should be better, it should be able to climb higher buildings and save all the gradients. Climbing was nerfed with the last update, so they thought it was OP already. Kinda a bait and switch if you ask me, since I already spent time to upgrade my Raijin to level 9.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 3:41:54 GMT -5
Raijin along with other WSP bots are skill-intensive. Most raijins i see are piloted really poorly and becomes a rocket tampon. Have a good pilot drive a raijin and it becomes another bot entirely. However, even if one mastered the raijin and figured every special forces elite ninja moves i doubt it could be any more useful than a griffin piloted averagely. I know they are not intended to fill the same role, since one relies on mobility and another on durability. The sad truth is the way War Robots works favor mobility greatly. Maybe this will change when beacon rush mode goes live. Almost exactly what I think. Mobility+damage is a king, and it almost doesn't matter how durable you are. Durability matters. I can hang on with 1/4 of my hit points, and a blue will come help me. So we hold the beacon longer, at least another 30s or more. Then when help comes, I can help and distract otherwise I would be dead and the blue would be by himself. So damage is ok, but it's more about strength in numbers and waiting for reinforcements. In almost any other bot, I would have to retreat, and lose beacon control. In a close game, that can be the difference in winning by beacon bar or not. LIke I said, if you want to maximize your one Thunder, then you need to pick your place of engagement just like Leonidas did at the narrow pass.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 3:48:48 GMT -5
Almost exactly what I think. Mobility+damage is a king, and it almost doesn't matter how durable you are. Durability matters, but the damage output has to balance it out. Hence the popularity of tarancilots. Raijin using 1 heavy hardpoint will not deal enough damage to defend a beacon well compared to 2 medium slots of an ancilot. I haven't looked at the damage between an Ancilot and Ancile/Thunder Raijin, so let's see now what it is. According to wiki, Taran L12 is 7407 burst DPS and 4938 cycle DPS. Thunder L12 is 16,304 burst and 8152 cycle. 2x Taran - 14,814 9876 1x Thunder - 16,304 8152
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Post by psyflex on Jun 11, 2017 3:49:40 GMT -5
You, Raijin pilots, do you find its climbing skill is good enough? I don't like/use the climbing ability at all, as i find it exposes the big spider too much and helps the reds to get better shots at it. I climbed up somewhere once, just to have Spirals, Hydras, Zenits, Noricums, Trebuchets, Tridents and Molots coming at me from everywhere... My poor spider never died so quickly before and after this 'experiment'. So i decided it is better to park the Rajin somewhere behind cover and hold a beacon as long as possible.
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Post by SuperHero on Jun 11, 2017 3:52:29 GMT -5
Note that the wiki (which is also administered by the same folks as this forum) is in the process of being updated in terms of data and stats.
To answer your question: YES, the Raijin is useless....
The only way to play it is as a static sniper, but with the number of shield bots and anciles, its quite pointless. You would need a complete squad to even remotely useful.
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Post by Russel on Jun 11, 2017 3:56:44 GMT -5
Almost exactly what I think. Mobility+damage is a king, and it almost doesn't matter how durable you are. Durability matters, but the damage output has to balance it out. Hence the popularity of tarancilots. Raijin using 1 heavy hardpoint will not deal enough damage to defend a beacon well compared to 2 medium slots of an ancilot. If you remember last Champions rant about game being unbalanced - it was about Trident Fury. And it's not durable by any standard. And Carnage usually more favorable bot that Fujin in higher tiers exactly due to the fact that Carnage can bring tons of damage, fast. More than that, I believe Lancelot's main features is NOT in it's durability, but in combination of: - 2xMed hardpoints (good enough firepower even with Ancile on top)
- Excellent cornershooting ability
- Speed boots - it can be used to "dodge" shots to some extent
- Shield serving great duty of protecting it from sniper's fire
- Shield requires almost no attention to be operated perfectly (you just try to keep you enemies in front of you, that's all)
So if we compare it to some other bots "on paper" - then
Rhino has better shield and more HP, too. But lacks in firepower a lot, and no dodge ability whatsoever, no cornershooting. You need to remember when to switch shield on\off, and where to face it. Also with shield you can't turn. Raijin is A LOT more hp, better shield but again no cornershoot, no speed, complex to use shield.
Leo has more HP and somewhat comparable firepower, but no speed rush and vulnerable to sniper fire, and subpar cornershooting abilities. Keep in mind that when I refer to "speed" - I don't mean "how fast you can reach the battle" (though it's important, too, but not the main point). I mean "ability to have a battle on your terms". Example being my battle in iOS Gold2, dead city. My Magnum\Pinata Jesse (J6, M\p9) against Orkan-Ancilot. (Lance 8, Anc\Ork lvl7). It sounds hard to believe, but I actually killed fresh Ancilot with my Jesse in a left Valley of DeadCity. It took some time, and a pilot was clearly inexperienced, but I took 0 damage while doing so. I teased him at ~290-300m range, then backpedal while firing Magnums. He saw that rockets were not hitting me, and decided to run away (big mistake), and turned his back on me. I managed to put decent damage with my Magnums, un-cap the beacon and run around building ruins. He was pissed, re-capped the beacon and shoot at me, to no avail. Then he chased me, I made it looks like I'm running away, he lost interest and turned back on me again. So I pound more magnums, and luckily Ancile was blown. Then combining Pins+Magnum fire was just a matter of time to finish him off. In short, it took some time, and a pilot was clearly inexperienced, but I took 0 damage while doing so. I teased him at ~290-300m range, then backpedal while firing Magnums. He saw that rockets were not hitting me, and decided to run away (big mistake), and turned his back on me. I managed to put decent damage with my Magnums, un-cap the beacon and run around building ruins. He was pissed, re-capped the beacon and shoot at me, to no avail. Then he chased me, I made it looks like I'm running away, he lost interest and turned back on me again. So I pound more magnums, and luckily Ancile was blown. Then combining Pins+Magnum fire was just a matter of time to finish him off. If my speed and agility would be not so much better than his - he could just chase me to an end of a valley, where I would be forced to run around the obstacle, and his Orkans would be dealing some splash by that time. And lack of long runway for my bot at this moment+cornershooting of the Lance would put an end to my Jesse (that happens a lot in a Jesse\Galahad fight). So I would say that with all other things being equal - it is nice to have a more durable bot. But my personal list of importance, for now, is as following: - Speed+Agility
- Firepower
- Ease of use\size (just hate when Leo's Thunder is scrapping those f***ing ceiling under the bridge of Springfield riverbank)
- Special quirks (climb, ancile, jump, stealth, quickdraw)
- Durability
- Bot sounds (ahh, here come quickdraw sounds again)
- Design
- Price
- Paintjobs
Oh, and in my twisted mind Acnile is not "just additional HP pool". It's more like "anti-aphid\tulumbas shield", because it kinda don't work against Trident\Orkans\Punishers\Plasma. Disclaimer: this is not the universal truth, it's just opinion that suits my gameplay style.
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Post by Russel on Jun 11, 2017 3:59:58 GMT -5
Durability matters, but the damage output has to balance it out. Hence the popularity of tarancilots. Raijin using 1 heavy hardpoint will not deal enough damage to defend a beacon well compared to 2 medium slots of an ancilot. I haven't looked at the damage between an Ancilot and Ancile/Thunder Raijin, so let's see now what it is. According to wiki, Taran L12 is 7407 burst DPS and 4938 cycle DPS. Thunder L12 is 16,304 burst and 8152 cycle. 2x Taran - 14,814 9876 1x Thunder - 16,304 8152 You do understand that at, say, 300m Taran is still doing same damage, and Thunder is ~40-50% of its actual damage due to spread, right?
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Post by SuperHero on Jun 11, 2017 4:07:34 GMT -5
"Doesn't work against Trident\Orkans\Punishers\Plasma" ?? Plasma aside, that is EXACTLY what the Ancile is meant for. Not sure what levels are you are currently facing, but is seriously a wrong statement. But to be fair, you have your disclaimer there already. Your profile says you are Diamond, which tells me little because I have seen maxed players (I dont know why) to low level players in Diamond. In any case, Orkans are now more powerful, but if you are a fan of fast bots like Jesses and Stalkers, they shouldnt worry you too much. Anyway, this thread seems to have run it's course?
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Post by Russel on Jun 11, 2017 4:46:31 GMT -5
"Doesn't work against Trident\Orkans\Punishers\Plasma"????? Plasma aside, that is EXACTLY what the Ancile is meant for. Not sure what levels are you are currently facing, but is seriously a wrong statement. But to be fair, you have your disclaimer there already. :D Your profile says you are Diamond, which tells me little because I have seen maxed players (I dont know why) to low level players in Diamond. In any case, Orkans are now more powerful, but if you are a fan of fast bots like Jesses and Stalkers, they shouldnt worry you too much. Anyway, this thread seems to have run it's course? Okay, I would paraphrase. Orkan bearer usually can jump/run inside your Ancile. Tridents/Punishers/Thunder is powerful enough to disable Ancile in a matter of seconds. Plasma just shoots through. Ive been in D2 for pretty long with my previous hangar; now my with my WW bots in d3. Single Thunder 9 on my Leo is capable of disabling Carnage/Ancilot shield from 520m easily. At that range knifefighting is useless, so Ancilot can do nothing, and for the most part can not hide either, due to the fact that Ancile protrudes through a wall.
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Post by Russel on Jun 11, 2017 5:06:24 GMT -5
"Doesn't work against Trident\Orkans\Punishers\Plasma"????? Plasma aside, that is EXACTLY what the Ancile is meant for. Not sure what levels are you are currently facing, but is seriously a wrong statement. But to be fair, you have your disclaimer there already. :D Your profile says you are Diamond, which tells me little because I have seen maxed players (I dont know why) to low level players in Diamond. In any case, Orkans are now more powerful, but if you are a fan of fast bots like Jesses and Stalkers, they shouldnt worry you too much. Anyway, this thread seems to have run it's course? Another clarification: Ancile makes your almost invincible against Aphids, Molot, Tulu\Pins. But it's much less effective against Thunder\Punisher\Trident\Orkan. I hope this clarifies what I had in mind. And yes, I think this thread accumulated all the info it could've.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 6:22:56 GMT -5
I haven't looked at the damage between an Ancilot and Ancile/Thunder Raijin, so let's see now what it is. According to wiki, Taran L12 is 7407 burst DPS and 4938 cycle DPS. Thunder L12 is 16,304 burst and 8152 cycle. 2x Taran - 14,814 9876 1x Thunder - 16,304 8152 You do understand that at, say, 300m Taran is still doing same damage, and Thunder is ~40-50% of its actual damage due to spread, right? Yes, I listed the stats for convenience. It's up to you to figure out that stuff out, meaning if you can use a Thunder properly. That's pretty basic info. I didn't want to state the obvious or add anything more. I know I can use Carnage Thunder, but not everyone can operate it. Same with Raijin Thunder.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 7:03:26 GMT -5
"Doesn't work against Trident\Orkans\Punishers\Plasma" ?? Plasma aside, that is EXACTLY what the Ancile is meant for. Not sure what levels are you are currently facing, but is seriously a wrong statement. But to be fair, you have your disclaimer there already. Your profile says you are Diamond, which tells me little because I have seen maxed players (I dont know why) to low level players in Diamond. In any case, Orkans are now more powerful, but if you are a fan of fast bots like Jesses and Stalkers, they shouldnt worry you too much. Anyway, this thread seems to have run it's course? Okay, I would paraphrase. Orkan bearer usually can jump/run inside your Ancile. Tridents/Punishers/Thunder is powerful enough to disable Ancile in a matter of seconds. Plasma just shoots through. Ive been in D2 for pretty long with my previous hangar; now my with my WW bots in d3. Single Thunder 9 on my Leo is capable of disabling Carnage/Ancilot shield from 520m easily. At that range knifefighting is useless, so Ancilot can do nothing, and for the most part can not hide either, due to the fact that Ancile protrudes through a wall. Sorry, but iOS D3 players are not that smart. I've run my Raijin when it was level 5 in D1, and it works fine. It shouldn't be that hard to get a Raijin to level 5, and throw a pair of Zeus or Tridents on it, and see how it performs for yourself. You'll need a high leveled Ancile and Thunder to try that build. Plus the knife-fighting Raijin needs to be at least 7 or 8 in Diamond. In Expert, I need my Raijin to be at 9.
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Post by Strayed on Jun 11, 2017 11:28:05 GMT -5
Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence mac.
Please post a video. Most of the people here and nearly every high leveled player discounts your Raijin views. Don't just muck it up to iOS players being idiots.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 14:49:17 GMT -5
Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence mac. Please post a video. Most of the people here and nearly every high leveled player discounts your Raijin views. Don't just muck it up to iOS players being idiots. I'm talking about Diamond tier on iOS, which I have played the Raijin different builds on. That's the tier the OP is in, so he's not a high level player so things are different. I'm not saying use Raijin in Champion league, but it's ok to use it in Diamond 2 where you see more diversity and a lower skill. OP wants to play it for fun and wants to know if it will die easily, and I can answer that for him and tried to explain how to play it as a knife fighter or long ranger that works for his tier. I wish I could post video, esp. for climbing buildings like on Shenzhen, but it may be nerfed now. Instead, I've tried to write mini guides and explain in detail so he can follow what I did. I said Diamond iOS, not just iOS. Check out this thread if you don't believe the skill difference between Diamond and above. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/9382/qualifying-diamond-expert-ios
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Post by SuperHero on Jun 12, 2017 4:48:13 GMT -5
Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence mac. Please post a video. Most of the people here and nearly every high leveled player discounts your Raijin views. Don't just muck it up to iOS players being idiots. I'm talking about Diamond tier on iOS, which I have played the Raijin different builds on. That's the tier the OP is in, so he's not a high level player so things are different. I'm not saying use Raijin in Champion league, but it's ok to use it in Diamond 2 where you see more diversity and a lower skill. OP wants to play it for fun and wants to know if it will die easily, and I can answer that for him and tried to explain how to play it as a knife fighter or long ranger that works for his tier. I wish I could post video, esp. for climbing buildings like on Shenzhen, but it may be nerfed now. Instead, I've tried to write mini guides and explain in detail so he can follow what I did. I said Diamond iOS, not just iOS. Check out this thread if you don't believe the skill difference between Diamond and above. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/9382/qualifying-diamond-expert-iosWhile ur rationale is not wrong, it is not helpful in the bigger picture of helping advance to higher leagues as they would then be wasting their resources to upgrade something that would be useless later.
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 12, 2017 6:24:55 GMT -5
What ? You supposed be giving us Spider Pilots advice ?
1. 250 000 Max and 150000 dual shields . Thats alot of tonnage be running as fast as a stalker ....unless you are a cheater ? Most maps are small enough so this is not a problem even with a 10 min limit. 2. It does not take too long to figure out what you can and can not squeeze through. He likes open wild spaces yup 3. Tarantula is a tank . Shooting is not his primary role . Stop worrying about weapons , stick an ancile on him and make him a better camper and protect bot . Actually , his sniping is no better than his knife fighting . You can put what ever you like on him and thats not a bad thing . 4. I have never noticed any problems killing some ?twinkle? bot thats hugging me . Lancelot is much wider , no problems from him either. 5. Rajin is his own corner . Shield in middle weapons on sides . 6. Big shield and Mountain of armour . Those cute lil Gepards thank jesus Raijin for taking all their damage . 7. Its not that slow dude. 8. Not supposed to retreat but you can put your back against a wall . Shinzen and Springfield and moon map middle beacons are awesome camping area,s . Stick ancile on Raijin and you not moving or dying any time soon I promise you . 9. The shields are no more or less flat than the brit bots . Any bot can be ganked, flanked and shot , Raijin is not unique in that regard . Raijin can turn around quicker in bastion mode compared to any other walking bot . Even ganked and about to die , one sucker is on the pointy end and he wont live through this . Hopefully your friends are smart enough take advantage of your sacrifice , heck maybe they are nice enough to shoot them gankers .
You are trying to use Raijin like you would a Natasha or Carnage . Tash is low HP a sniper best used at the back . Carnie is a backstabbing little snake and beacon thief . Most of your points you bring up are , you trying to make Raijin into something he is not . He is a fair sniper but not the best sniper . He is not the best running bot either .
Raijin has one flaw , The game rewards players for doing bot kills , damage and beacon caps . Tanking for your buddies and guard duty is ignored even if it is tactically essential . Raijin is a support tank, a thankless job . Having the most HP and shield makes you a back bone of your squad . Thats never out of "meta." Your friends need that armour and you infront . You are the proverbial assault mech taking point , moving forward with your glass cannon bots behind you . They smack the enemy and you soak up damage .
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Post by Russel on Jun 12, 2017 7:39:24 GMT -5
What? You supposed be giving us Spider Pilots advice? He likes open wild spaces yup Shooting is not his primary role. Stick an ancile on him and make him a better camper and protect bot Actually, his sniping is no better than his knife fighting. Big shield and Mountain of armor. Those cute lil Gepards thank Jesus Raijin for taking all their damage. Stick ancile on Raijin and you not moving or dying anytime soon I promise you. 1. Clearly, I am not. I am seeking advice here. 2. So, did I get it right - you just put an Ancile and march on to collect all the damage you can get? Tash is low HP a sniper best used at the back. IIRC Natasha=Fury=Griffin in terms of HP But back on topic, so: Most of your points you bring up are, you trying to make Raijin into something he is not. He is a fair sniper but not the best sniper. He is not the best-running bot either. combined with: Actually, his sniping is no better than his knife fighting. Boils down to: Raijin has one flaw, The game rewards players for doing bot kills, damage and beacon caps. Raijin is a support tank, a thankless job. Having the most HP and shield makes you a back bone of your squad. That's never out of "meta." Your friends need that armor and you in front. You are the proverbial assault mech taking point, moving forward with your glass cannon bots behind you. They smack the enemy and you soak up damage. So what you saying is that Raijin should be slowly moving forward, collecting all the damage, while teammates would proceed behind him? So that shields would not be used (because he's walking), and entire 2-3 player attack force would be creeping 33 km/h behind him in the open?
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 12, 2017 10:08:26 GMT -5
Its your preference of course . If red bot cannot kill your ancile enough to start on your shield , so he can start on your armour .....assume you are doing it right. If you wanna add another thunder on your bot to kill things faster thats cool too .
Really ? Griffs have fury and tash HP ? Wow live and learn . Griffins are soo overrated .
Lets assume in the perfect world all your buddies or most are in the same room with you so communication is not an issue . Lets assume most understand your plan . Parade formation . Upgraded fat bot infront . Upgraded weapons and low bots in the back . Lets say ancile Raijin moves slowly forward to capture middle point . When he takes damage and that starts affecting his armour he goes bastion . Bots behind Raijin should start harrassing whatever is attacking Raijin , fall back if they get targeted . If Raijin stops taking damage he should go foward again and camp in the centre or heck if the resistance is pathetic keep moving foward.
Its aggressive centre control chess theory and possible on 3 of the maps . I have done it as a solo player plenty of times . Some players get it and we win and some dont and I croak for nothing but thats life .
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Post by Russel on Jun 12, 2017 10:53:18 GMT -5
Its your preference of course . If red bot cannot kill your ancile enough to start on your shield , so he can start on your armour .....assume you are doing it right. If you wanna add another thunder on your bot to kill things faster thats cool too . Really ? Griffs have fury and tash HP ? Wow live and learn . Griffins are soo overrated . Lets assume in the perfect world all your buddies or most are in the same room with you so communication is not an issue . Lets assume most understand your plan . Parade formation . Upgraded fat bot infront . Upgraded weapons and low bots in the back . Lets say ancile Raijin moves slowly forward to capture middle point . When he takes damage and that starts affecting his armour he goes bastion . Bots behind Raijin should start harrassing whatever is attacking Raijin , fall back if they get targeted . If Raijin stops taking damage he should go foward again and camp in the centre or heck if the resistance is pathetic keep moving foward. Its aggressive centre control chess theory and possible on 3 of the maps . I have done it as a solo player plenty of times . Some players get it and we win and some dont and I croak for nothing but thats life . :-D You ARE good, man :-D But the phrase about Griffins being overrated gave you out. Nevertheless, I enjoyed this conversation a lot, thanks :)
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Post by elcheapo on Jun 12, 2017 15:53:43 GMT -5
look mr know it all seems like you just made a thread to mock a certain bot , very twinkle of you I was being serious but you obviously made up your mind . I am not a fan of Griffins so sue me . If you think I am someone else check my email or IP address.
go play and praise whatever bot you want , I wasted enough time .
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Post by Russel on Jun 12, 2017 16:13:35 GMT -5
look mr know it all seems like you just made a thread to mock a certain bot , very twinkle of you I was being serious but you obviously made up your mind . I am not a fan of Griffins so sue me . If you think I am someone else check my email or IP address. go play and praise whatever bot you want , I wasted enough time . Sorry, I though you were making fun of me; and I'm definitely not "know it all" and can't check your email or ip address. It's just counter-intuitive for me to imaging playing a bot so that it would be collecting damage on purpose. And about Grififns - durability was never their upside; it's combination of speed (pretty fast for a heavy), firepower (one of the best in game) and jump (you can use it for retreat or attack; and also to get on top of shooting point). Never intended to make you angry :(
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Post by Strayed on Jun 12, 2017 18:07:13 GMT -5
You get rewards for doing damage, collecting beacons and winning the match. You do not get rewards for being a sandbag while your team is losing the game however.
You yourself said that it doesn't always work, that other part of the time, you would be better served with a knife fighter, and most likely, the times where it works, your team would still be better served with a teammate that isn't a delicious hunk of meat for the enemy team. And if you want to support your teammates with an anicle, why not use a lancelot or leo? They"re faster and can still hold their own, even missing their heavy slot. An organized squad would just focus fire your anicle and then destroy your teammates.
"Lets assume in the perfect world all your buddies or most are in the same room with you so communication is not an issue."
Thing is, this is not a perfect world, you are mostly going to have horrible communication with your teammates.
Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence, please post a video.
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Post by CharismaticReaper99 on Jun 13, 2017 6:15:45 GMT -5
You get rewards for doing damage, collecting beacons and winning the match. You do not get rewards for being a sandbag while your team is losing the game however. You yourself said that it doesn't always work, that other part of the time, you would be better served with a knife fighter, and most likely, the times where it works, your team would still be better served with a teammate that isn't a delicious hunk of meat for the enemy team. And if you want to support your teammates with an anicle, why not use a lancelot or leo? They"re faster and can still hold their own, even missing their heavy slot. An organized squad would just focus fire your anicle and then destroy your teammates. "Lets assume in the perfect world all your buddies or most are in the same room with you so communication is not an issue." Thing is, this is not a perfect world, you are mostly going to have horrible communication with your teammates. Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence, please post a video. I don't understand, being a sandbag? There are a couple players that got a little too far ahead of their own league, and can't deal more than 200k, but that's not being a sandbag. Using terrible bots is being a sandbag, overtime you see a long range with noricums and zenits, just learn to assume they aren't part of the total 5 (6?) Players on your team.
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Post by Russel on Jun 13, 2017 6:42:51 GMT -5
You get rewards for doing damage, collecting beacons and winning the match. You do not get rewards for being a sandbag while your team is losing the game however. You yourself said that it doesn't always work, that other part of the time, you would be better served with a knife fighter, and most likely, the times where it works, your team would still be better served with a teammate that isn't a delicious hunk of meat for the enemy team. And if you want to support your teammates with an anicle, why not use a lancelot or leo? They"re faster and can still hold their own, even missing their heavy slot. An organized squad would just focus fire your anicle and then destroy your teammates. "Lets assume in the perfect world all your buddies or most are in the same room with you so communication is not an issue." Thing is, this is not a perfect world, you are mostly going to have horrible communication with your teammates. Anecdotal evidence is not true evidence, please post a video. I don't understand, being a sandbag? There are a couple players that got a little too far ahead of their own league, and can't deal more than 200k, but that's not being a sandbag. Using terrible bots is being a sandbag, overtime you see a long range with noricums and zenits, just learn to assume they aren't part of the total 5 (6?) Players on your team. As far as I understand the game, "being a sandbag" is a decent strategy, but only if it is a temporary measure. Example, if you wish: Canyon, me in Leo, teammate in a Trident Fury. Lancelot is approaching, Fury is on reload. I move in to be at Fury's front, received Thunder+Taran salvo, while shooting back, of course, and then Fury shots Tridents, ta-da! No more Lancelot. That is "optimizing the damage"; so in any battle it's better to divide damage done between your bots to keep everybody alive and firing as long as possible, while trying to focus fire on single enemy bot. This is because single bot _USUALY_ can fire as good when he's at 1% of health as when he's at 100% But the main issue here is that I can fire back and can move while absorbing damage, with a decent speed, so I can bring my body and my firepower where needed in relevant time; and not when everybody's dead or beacons are taken. So far I heard only one decent opinion of Raijin usage, it was on using "climb" in order to "dodge" rockets and find better fire position. However in my experience whenever Raijin is on the map I can hear "Hey, free silver!" and everybody starts shooting at him, because: 1) It's big, you can't miss 2) It's slow, he can't escape\dodge 3) It's slow, YOU can peek out, shoot and hide 4) It's not very powerful in terms of firepower (NO, Raijin's twin Thunders are NOT the same as Carnages due to the spread of the Thunder and wider mounting on a Raijin); if it's a Trident\Zeus it's even better, because you can time his shot while in cover, then pop out, shoot and hide back again; and see p.2 5) For the rocket guys Raijin is just a little bit fatter Leo with A LOT more area to hit, so it dies even faster. So that's, in short, difference between "a bullet magnet" and "a sandbag" in my opinion. Oh, and once again, about corner-shooting - I think there were a misconception in this thread in relation to this activity. Cornershooting is getting none damage while you enemy is getting some. It cannot be done when your huge leg sticks out. I did many crazy tricks in this game - so I believe that good Raijin gameplay is possible - but for the most part I can get my video or find similar. With this bot, however, I can find only some low-league play, where lvl5 Pinata Gepard is being obliterated by a Thunder Raijin, or some tankers video, where 12\12 Raijin massacre entire map of 6\6 player. And the reason to this thread is NOT to mocker players\bots; I'd like to re-format WIKI Raijin page with objective information, and so far I found none. In any day\any league you would be better off with a Carnage or Rhino or even Fujin for the WP\Silver it would take to get\upgrade Raijin. So in my opinion it still is a fun to play, "hobby-bot" you take for a spin on a weekend, and not your trustworthy moneymaking killing machine.
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