indian
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Post by indian on Jul 30, 2020 2:44:20 GMT -5
What do you guys think of the new pilot??
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mammoth
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Post by mammoth on Jul 30, 2020 4:10:31 GMT -5
If you look at long term, it's 「dookie」 as a reduction in DR is not worth it. If you don't have any legendary pilot for the leech, then you may use this temporary till you get Thomas.
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Post by vonpaulus on Jul 30, 2020 4:45:32 GMT -5
Does anyone know how it interacts with Adamant Guardian or Beacon Raider? With either/both those skills at T4 she could be worthwhile investment, but that depends on how the damage reductions/transfers are calculated.
Otherwise don’t get too attached to a Leech with her as the pilot. Possibly strap a jump pack on the Leech and use her like a Hellburner.
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Post by Desc440 on Jul 30, 2020 4:59:46 GMT -5
Garbage. A sidegrade as unique skill is a waste.
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Post by rags on Jul 30, 2020 15:39:51 GMT -5
All of the skill choices they gave us to vote on were bad/lame/uncreative. The problem was also that people voted for OP (at the time) leech to be the bot to get the community pilot. Like 「whiskey tango foxtrot」.
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Post by derps on Jul 30, 2020 15:49:13 GMT -5
Honestly cannot believe that the community voted for this ability. It is the most counterproductive thing ever...
In order to deliver more Repulse DMG you have to take a LOT more DMG to make it worthwhile, but with 20% less DR you will also die much faster. So... Unless use your leech solely for Titan killing where most of your DR doesn't matter anyway, either way that seems very counterproductive vs something that will easily outlive the Repulse DMG... Dieing so much faster no doubt will negate or mostly remove the benefit of more Repulse DMG. So so silly.
I'd hate to think the overall community is that dumb, and that Pic chose for us, but I guess I'm not that surprised.
I.e. to OP question. Nah she bad pilot. No thx, not even worth the gold to lvl up as a temp pilot.
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Post by reconnecting on Jul 30, 2020 16:23:33 GMT -5
I think adding any pilot to your hangar is a hard sell because they are so expensive to upgrade. My 2 cents.
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Post by rags on Jul 30, 2020 17:11:56 GMT -5
Honestly cannot believe that the community voted for this ability. It is the most counterproductive thing ever... In order to deliver more Repulse DMG you have to take a LOT more DMG to make it worthwhile, but with 20% less DR you will also die much faster. So... Unless use your leech solely for Titan killing where most of your DR doesn't matter anyway, either way that seems very counterproductive vs something that will easily outlive the Repulse DMG... Dieing so much faster no doubt will negate or mostly remove the benefit of more Repulse DMG. So so silly. I'd hate to think the overall community is that dumb, and that Pic chose for us, but I guess I'm not that surprised. I.e. to OP question. Nah she bad pilot. No thx, not even worth the gold to lvl up as a temp pilot. what happened is the leech won the vote somehow then when the community at large found out they all chimes in and picked the most useless skill so that OP (at the time) leech wouldn’t have another OP pilot. So now we just have a useless pilot. and pix even knows it that’s why it’s on the free track.
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Post by dobby on Jul 30, 2020 17:14:22 GMT -5
Honestly cannot believe that the community voted for this ability. It is the most counterproductive thing ever... In order to deliver more Repulse DMG you have to take a LOT more DMG to make it worthwhile, but with 20% less DR you will also die much faster. So... Unless use your leech solely for Titan killing where most of your DR doesn't matter anyway, either way that seems very counterproductive vs something that will easily outlive the Repulse DMG... Dieing so much faster no doubt will negate or mostly remove the benefit of more Repulse DMG. So so silly. I'd hate to think the overall community is that dumb, and that Pic chose for us, but I guess I'm not that surprised. I.e. to OP question. Nah she bad pilot. No thx, not even worth the gold to lvl up as a temp pilot. Pause a moment - at the time when the vote was active, Leeches were running rampant, dominating most other bots; it was not uncommon (at least in upper Champions League) to see hangars with 3 or more maxed Leeches. Many of us here on this forum had a discussion about which way to vote (thanks to a thread started by Deadeye ) - and knowing that some players (particularly those that don't care about game balance or hangar variety) were likely to vote for what they considered to be the most OP skill - we decided to do some damage control and concluded that voting together for a weaker pilot would be a better option than voting for something that would make an already very OP bot even more OP. It wasn't a dumb community decision (although I can completely see why it may look that way); it was a strategic one done for the sake of game balance. After all Thomas Mindread was bad enough; but you know the saying - better the devil you know. Of course in hindsight we needn't have bothered as Pix's newer introductions made sure the Leech numbers were forced down; but we didn't know that then (Ao Jun had a ridiculously long run, Leech May have had the same).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 19:56:53 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo.
Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted?
Genuinely interested.
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Post by rags on Jul 30, 2020 20:20:24 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo. Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted? Genuinely interested. Nothing interesting imo. Changing repulse damage into healing might have actually been cool and made sense
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 20:34:22 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo. Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted? Genuinely interested. Nothing interesting imo. Changing repulse damage into healing might have actually been cool and made sense Thanks for posting that. I was curious as to what exactly Pix were prepared to add to a bot like Leech (at the time).
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Post by frunobulax on Jul 31, 2020 0:18:07 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo. Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted? Genuinely interested. She's free, and allows to run gold skills on a Leech. As discussed in the other thread, you'll perhaps get higher chance of rolling higher tier skills on her than on a normal pilot. So while a champ player would probably wait for Mindread, a lower level might be happy to get her.
Agree that the skill is meh. But I'm too lazy to run damage numbers here. Might make sense if you're facing a lot of Vipers. I would welcome it very much if Pixo would bring defence mitigation to normal bots, as titans are the #1 reason that the player population is in free fall. (Lower leagues are even worse than champ.) If that would be in the cards, she might become more interesting.
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Post by rags on Jul 31, 2020 0:22:27 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo. Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted? Genuinely interested. She's free, and allows to run gold skills on a Leech. As discussed in the other thread, you'll perhaps get higher chance of rolling higher tier skills on her than on a normal pilot. So while a champ player would probably wait for Mindread, a lower level might be happy to get her.
Agree that the skill is meh. But I'm too lazy to run damage numbers here. Might make sense if you're facing a lot of Vipers. I would welcome it very much if Pixo would bring defence mitigation to normal bots, as titans are the #1 reason that the player population is in free fall. (Lower leagues are even worse than champ.) If that would be in the cards, she might become more interesting.
there are more than enough players still. The MM is deliberately set up to toss masters into Champions League matches to get slaughtered. She’s free cuz nobody would pay for her worthless ability. Lower level players if they’re smart aren’t spending time. leveling up new leeches anyway
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 4:42:59 GMT -5
She definitely sucks poo. Reading through this thread (which is full of stuff I didn't know), I wonder what the other possible skills were for the Leech that were being touted? Genuinely interested. She's free, and allows to run gold skills on a Leech. As discussed in the other thread, you'll perhaps get higher chance of rolling higher tier skills on her than on a normal pilot. So while a champ player would probably wait for Mindread, a lower level might be happy to get her.
Agree that the skill is meh. But I'm too lazy to run damage numbers here. Might make sense if you're facing a lot of Vipers. I would welcome it very much if Pixo would bring defence mitigation to normal bots, as titans are the #1 reason that the player population is in free fall. (Lower leagues are even worse than champ.) If that would be in the cards, she might become more interesting.
Wasn't aware of the possible higher chance to roll higher tiers on her (LPs?). I stand by my poo-eating comment, though, I change it to:
She sucks poo for a legendary pilot.
I took out 'definitely' because as you point out, we haven't actually tested her ability properly. I added in 'for a legendary pilot' because your other arguments apply to legendary pilots in general. I don't think the 'free' bit stands, as something being free doesn't in itself mean it is of worth. You could argue it often means the opposite.
As it stands, before feedback o her ability, I really would advise against any lower level player investing in her. LPs are now a colossal investment, and the new system means that normal pilots are virtually pointless, as is an Legendary Pilot whose ability is (probably) cack, and who has a much better alternative available. Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills, I'd use that gold to buy Mindread when he pops up in store. You could even refresh many times and still have change.
Btw, I am DEIGHTED she sucks. I don't want nor need Leech becoming more powerful. I'm definitely going to test run her when I get her and see what she's baking in that shaking.
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Jul 31, 2020 5:02:04 GMT -5
Ah, isn't 70% damage resistance still great anyway? Might have to run some healing skills but the extra damage transfer will be brutal. 60% damage transfer, that's going to wreck bots fast.
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indian
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Post by indian on Jul 31, 2020 5:08:05 GMT -5
Ah, isn't 70% damage resistance still great anyway? Might have to run some healing skills but the extra damage transfer will be brutal. 60% damage transfer, that's going to wreck bots fast. I feel the exact same... AuGuang "Green Dragon" also has 70% Damage resistance if im not mistaken and that thing in air is hard as 「fluffernutter」 to take down..... now imagine i leeched to another leech with "Mindread" as the Legendary Pilot and one on one we shoot each other.... Which pilot will be more effective??
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 5:28:59 GMT -5
Ah, isn't 70% damage resistance still great anyway? Might have to run some healing skills but the extra damage transfer will be brutal. 60% damage transfer, that's going to wreck bots fast. I feel the exact same... AuGuang "Green Dragon" also has 70% Damage resistance if im not mistaken and that thing in air is hard as ?fluffernutter? to take down..... now imagine i leeched to another leech with "Mindread" as the Legendary Pilot and one on one we shoot each other.... Which pilot will be more effective??
Think Au Guang has 80% DR, but it's a good point. Leech has pretty much the same HP, so it's a fair comparison. I guess I think of Leech as too squishy to be using a skill like this - and unlike Au Guang, more likely to get caught with its pants down.
All things being equal, the new Legendary Pilot would allow the Mindread Legendary Pilot to win if they are staring at each other pressing the fire button. Hpwever, if the player with Mindread did that, I'm not sure they really 'get' the speed boost idea.
As Sebenza pointed out, 70 % is not to be sniffed at, and I will wait to test the Legendary Pilot myself. But, taking everything into account, I think she eats poo.
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Post by frunobulax on Jul 31, 2020 5:30:07 GMT -5
She's free, and allows to run gold skills on a Leech. As discussed in the other thread, you'll perhaps get higher chance of rolling higher tier skills on her than on a normal pilot. So while a champ player would probably wait for Mindread, a lower level might be happy to get her.
As it stands, before feedback o her ability, I really would advise against any lower level player investing in her. LPs are now a colossal investment, and the new system means that normal pilots are virtually pointless, as is an Legendary Pilot whose ability is (probably) cack, and who has a much better alternative available. Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills, I'd use that gold to buy Mindread when he pops up in store. You could even refresh many times and still have change. LPs are no more expensive to level than a regular pilot. So Mindread will cost you 2,500 extra, there is no gold saved. Which is a lot for players that make maybe 80-90 gold a day. Now, players can decide whether the difference in legendary skill is worth 2,500 gold. It would be to me, but then, I spend a bit of money here and there, enough to get in some extra gold.
There are different players with different depth of pockets in this game. If I would play enough on my smurf to get level 39 on the op, I'd probably use her somehow. Players might consider running her on a different bot than Leech, she will be better than a normal pilot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 5:42:40 GMT -5
As it stands, before feedback o her ability, I really would advise against any lower level player investing in her. LPs are now a colossal investment, and the new system means that normal pilots are virtually pointless, as is an Legendary Pilot whose ability is (probably) cack, and who has a much better alternative available. Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills, I'd use that gold to buy Mindread when he pops up in store. You could even refresh many times and still have change. LPs are no more expensive to level than a regular pilot. So Mindread will cost you 2,500 extra, there is no gold saved. Which is a lot for players that make maybe 80-90 gold a day. Now, players can decide whether the difference in legendary skill is worth 2,500 gold. It would be to me, but then, I spend a bit of money here and there, enough to get in some extra gold.
There are different players with different depth of pockets in this game. If I would play enough on my smurf to get level 39 on the op, I'd probably use her somehow. Players might consider running her on a different bot than Leech, she will be better than a normal pilot.
I think you misunderstood my post. I said 'Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills...' I was comparing upgrading and promoting her over Mindread. That is, instead of using her as a filler in lower leagues, just forgo upgrading and promoting her and spend it on Mindread. That would be a huge saving.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but weren't you suggesting a lower league player might use her instead of Mindread? If so, I think my point still stands.
I totally agree that she will be better than a normal pilot (I already said normal pilots are completely pointless in the game now - and I wish that were changed or the pilots were removed), but as a legendary pilot, taking everything into account, I think the poo is still being eaten by her.
You have made me less sure on how crap her ability is though, so who knows, when we run her, she might be better than Mindread? I'm open to it, but not hopeful.
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Post by Spicy Jones on Jul 31, 2020 5:44:01 GMT -5
meh, Thomas the tank engine is better
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Jul 31, 2020 5:55:06 GMT -5
Ah, isn't 70% damage resistance still great anyway? Might have to run some healing skills but the extra damage transfer will be brutal. 60% damage transfer, that's going to wreck bots fast. I feel the exact same... AuGuang "Green Dragon" also has 70% Damage resistance if im not mistaken and that thing in air is hard as ?fluffernutter? to take down..... now imagine i leeched to another leech with "Mindread" as the Legendary Pilot and one on one we shoot each other.... Which pilot will be more effective??Using the showdown test, wouldn't the Adrian Chong pilot be better than Mindread?
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Post by foxypotato on Jul 31, 2020 6:38:26 GMT -5
Honestly cannot believe that the community voted for this ability. It is the most counterproductive thing ever... In order to deliver more Repulse DMG you have to take a LOT more DMG to make it worthwhile, but with 20% less DR you will also die much faster. So... Unless use your leech solely for Titan killing where most of your DR doesn't matter anyway, either way that seems very counterproductive vs something that will easily outlive the Repulse DMG... Dieing so much faster no doubt will negate or mostly remove the benefit of more Repulse DMG. So so silly. I'd hate to think the overall community is that dumb, and that Pic chose for us, but I guess I'm not that surprised. I.e. to OP question. Nah she bad pilot. No thx, not even worth the gold to lvl up as a temp pilot. It's almost like that was the point. Why would we want to make the new OP thing even more OP?
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Post by Spicy Jones on Jul 31, 2020 6:39:46 GMT -5
I feel the exact same... AuGuang "Green Dragon" also has 70% Damage resistance if im not mistaken and that thing in air is hard as ?fluffernutter? to take down..... now imagine i leeched to another leech with "Mindread" as the Legendary Pilot and one on one we shoot each other.... Which pilot will be more effective??Using the showdown test, wouldn't the Adrian Chong pilot be better than Mindread? Good point. Mindread is good for hunting down targets and better for ambushing/using cover. Does Chong's ability buff Repulse? If so, I wonder how it compares to the new pilot and see if the trade-off for less defense points is even worth it.
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Post by frunobulax on Jul 31, 2020 8:07:20 GMT -5
LPs are no more expensive to level than a regular pilot. So Mindread will cost you 2,500 extra, there is no gold saved. Which is a lot for players that make maybe 80-90 gold a day. Now, players can decide whether the difference in legendary skill is worth 2,500 gold. It would be to me, but then, I spend a bit of money here and there, enough to get in some extra gold.
I think you misunderstood my post. I said 'Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills...' I was comparing upgrading and promoting her over Mindread. That is, instead of using her as a filler in lower leagues, just forgo upgrading and promoting her and spend it on Mindread. That would be a huge saving.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but weren't you suggesting a lower league player might use her instead of Mindread? If so, I think my point still stands.
I totally agree that she will be better than a normal pilot (I already said normal pilots are completely pointless in the game now - and I wish that were changed or the pilots were removed), but as a legendary pilot, taking everything into account, I think the poo is still being eaten by her.
You have made me less sure on how crap her ability is though, so who knows, when we run her, she might be better than Mindread? I'm open to it, but not hopeful.
We fully agree that she's crap on a Leech for competetive, champ play. But lower decks... Again, I haven't run the numbers. And it depends on the playing style I guess. Most casual players run no legendary pilots, because they barely have the gold to upgrade pilots to level 20, or 30 at best. So I would probably put her on a different bot, and hope to roll a T4 skill.
As for her ability, if I had a Leech too, IDK. Does she make Leech worse? Would a Leech be better with a normal pilot? Redirected damage is almost doubled. She redirects 2 points damage for every point damage received. Leech is pretty much a glass cannon. With my Leech I'll happily go 1-on-1 against tanks like a Fenrir, Invader or Falcon, because of the 90% DR. I wouldn't do that with Isabella, never. And I hardly ever rely on redirected damage, because often I don't see whom I'm leeched to. If I fight for beacons, it's usually Ravanas so I try to lock onto another bot hiding in cover whenever I can. Therefore, damage reduction is more important to me than damage redirection. And I hardly ever go against a Titan with my Leech, as I spawn it early on. I don't think I would use her on a Leech, unless Pixo introduces more weapons that (partially) bypass damage reduction (like titans or Vipers).
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Post by Sebenza 21 on Jul 31, 2020 8:09:20 GMT -5
Spicy Jones It would be a good test video. I'm sure one of the youtubers will do a comparison as soon as they get access to the pilot.
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Post by foxypotato on Jul 31, 2020 8:30:12 GMT -5
ITT: people with no short term memory
Players: "Wow Leech is crazy OP and now they want us to pick a skill for a legendary pilot for the thing? It doesn't need a legendary pilot. We will all pick the least evil skill."
Player 5 min later: "Whoa why does this Leech legendary pilot suck so bad? Leech deserves better."
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Post by Munki on Jul 31, 2020 8:59:55 GMT -5
This discussion kind of reminds me of when Ravana came out. I realize they buffed it, released a special version, and powerful Legendary Pilot since initial release but still it was better than many thought. Before leveling all the criticism, maybe she should be tried out. She is on the free track and the skill will be fully available to try on your Leech. She could find a particular niche with a weapon and/or playstyle we hadn't considered previously. I myself will hold judgement for now. Worst case she can be placed on a different bot over a standard pilot. If you don't like her in the end, just sell her! I am curious as to how much she is worth Ag wise.
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Post by Deadeye on Jul 31, 2020 9:24:09 GMT -5
Honestly cannot believe that the community voted for this ability. It is the most counterproductive thing ever... In order to deliver more Repulse DMG you have to take a LOT more DMG to make it worthwhile, but with 20% less DR you will also die much faster. So... Unless use your leech solely for Titan killing where most of your DR doesn't matter anyway, either way that seems very counterproductive vs something that will easily outlive the Repulse DMG... Dieing so much faster no doubt will negate or mostly remove the benefit of more Repulse DMG. So so silly. I'd hate to think the overall community is that dumb, and that Pic chose for us, but I guess I'm not that surprised. I.e. to OP question. Nah she bad pilot. No thx, not even worth the gold to lvl up as a temp pilot. Pause a moment - at the time when the vote was active, Leeches were running rampant, dominating most other bots; it was not uncommon (at least in upper Champions League) to see hangars with 3 or more maxed Leeches. Many of us here on this forum had a discussion about which way to vote (thanks to a thread started by Deadeye ) - and knowing that some players (particularly those that don't care about game balance or hangar variety) were likely to vote for what they considered to be the most OP skill - we decided to do some damage control and concluded that voting together for a weaker pilot would be a better option than voting for something that would make an already very OP bot even more OP. It wasn't a dumb community decision (although I can completely see why it may look that way); it was a strategic one done for the sake of game balance. After all Thomas Mindread was bad enough; but you know the saying - better the devil you know. Of course in hindsight we needn't have bothered as Pix's newer introductions made sure the Leech numbers were forced down; but we didn't know that then (Ao Jun had a ridiculously long run, Leech May have had the same). That was exactly the thinking at the time. One additional note that we couldn't really anticipate was that she would be released soooooo much later in the game. It's been months since that poll happened. A number of factors have nullified the need to pick a crappy skill, not the least of which is the new pilot system that discourages trying new things out (especially alternative pilots). If you're looking for a new pilot to revitalize an old bot, I agree she's not the one to do that, but based on the circumstances at the time, I don't regret getting everyone together to pick the lesser of 2 (5?) evils.
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Post by Deadeye on Jul 31, 2020 9:33:26 GMT -5
I think you misunderstood my post. I said 'Instead of promoting and upgrading her skills...' I was comparing upgrading and promoting her over Mindread. That is, instead of using her as a filler in lower leagues, just forgo upgrading and promoting her and spend it on Mindread. That would be a huge saving.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but weren't you suggesting a lower league player might use her instead of Mindread? If so, I think my point still stands.
I totally agree that she will be better than a normal pilot (I already said normal pilots are completely pointless in the game now - and I wish that were changed or the pilots were removed), but as a legendary pilot, taking everything into account, I think the poo is still being eaten by her.
You have made me less sure on how crap her ability is though, so who knows, when we run her, she might be better than Mindread? I'm open to it, but not hopeful.
We fully agree that she's crap on a Leech for competetive, champ play. But lower decks... Again, I haven't run the numbers. And it depends on the playing style I guess. Most casual players run no legendary pilots, because they barely have the gold to upgrade pilots to level 20, or 30 at best. So I would probably put her on a different bot, and hope to roll a T4 skill.
As for her ability, if I had a Leech too, IDK. Does she make Leech worse? Would a Leech be better with a normal pilot? Redirected damage is almost doubled. She redirects 2 points damage for every point damage received. Leech is pretty much a glass cannon. With my Leech I'll happily go 1-on-1 against tanks like a Fenrir, Invader or Falcon, because of the 90% DR. I wouldn't do that with Isabella, never. And I hardly ever rely on redirected damage, because often I don't see whom I'm leeched to. If I fight for beacons, it's usually Ravanas so I try to lock onto another bot hiding in cover whenever I can. Therefore, damage reduction is more important to me than damage redirection. And I hardly ever go against a Titan with my Leech, as I spawn it early on. I don't think I would use her on a Leech, unless Pixo introduces more weapons that (partially) bypass damage reduction (like titans or Vipers).
Very good points. I think she could be useful, but it's a complete play style change. Instead of using the ability just for the DR (like I essentially do), you would need to focus more on who you're redirecting the damage too. As you say, you wouldn't want to redirect it to a hard target (Ravana, T-falc, Fenrir) that could tank the damage. Rather, you want it to go to a soft target without DR or other abilities (PS and Last Stand). This is far more micro managing than I'm willing to commit to, especially with targeting as crappy as it is and that I'm using Scourges which require more target management than other weapons. She's not my cup of tea, but maybe someone could make use of here. I use mine more of a unexpected beacon runner style with all the speed boosts I can, so this would be a huge change of styles for me. #nope
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