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Post by Rollo Tomasi on May 10, 2020 19:43:08 GMT -5
One observation I had which I think is the single biggest problem: It enables very exclusionary/vindictive play and via discord will make very bad games Ok player x is our target. Hit target x Till he meches or leaves. This is very similar to the ares train. And it will amount to a very similar problem. Destroying 1 players mechs 6 times is much stronger than destroying 1 mech from 6 players Bring it. I would prefer this to the waste of time 「dookie」show when outplaying the reds only to have a couple of AM150s lazily mech everyone out later in the match.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:09:16 GMT -5
One observation I had which I think is the single biggest problem: It enables very exclusionary/vindictive play and via discord will make very bad games Ok player x is our target. Hit target x Till he meches or leaves. This is very similar to the ares train. And it will amount to a very similar problem. Destroying 1 players mechs 6 times is much stronger than destroying 1 mech from 6 players Bring it. I would prefer this to the waste of time ?dookie?show when outplaying the reds only to have a couple of AM150s lazily mech everyone out later in the match. Hence the bottom line of all this insanity......spend money to be strong enough, with the right toys/skills/modules/magic, and the games rocks! Play this amazing game as it really should be played, and get smoked by lazy people who have means and willingness to place themselves over most others. Business is business......no one is forcing a single player to log into this mess. We do what we do, complaining all the way! Pix 1,000,000,000, player base 0
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on May 10, 2020 20:17:17 GMT -5
Preliminary Counter-Scorpion Ideas
The main problem with Scorpion in its current form (early May 2020) is the range of its ability, which has two aspects:
- The distance they can travel
- Proximity of materialization
DISTANCE If we consider a variety of scenarios with the ability limited to 300m, while it is still difficult to deal with, you could at least more easily move to the location they returned to in order to engage them. When it’s 500m, that’s just ridiculous = sit behind cover, wait for enemy to slightly enter range, blink to point blank, fire, return to cover WAY out of range for that opponent to reach you. Theoretically this means weapons 500m or more might be more useful, but even then you’d have to rely on the Scorpion leaving its cover to move to a new location. 500m also clearly presents a host of other game breaking issues for every game mode, never mind the extreme disadvantage of less than optimal equipment.
PROXIMITY This aspect of the ability, dare I say, seems to be designed to make more relevant all the work we did to build shotguns. That is a good thing. Nonetheless, the issue is the Scorpions ability to vanish instantly. The solution would be to give the ability to vanish a decent cooldown that delays their ability to vanish.
It has remarked that the Scorpion will be a good titan killer. It may do okay finishing off weakened Titans or for assisting in their gradual degradation, particularly the Ming or Nodens, but materializing at point blank against an Arthur or Kid will not turn out well if the player doesn’t time it for after the Stove or Blastwave was just used.
In general, the best counters against a sneak attack will be:
- Stacked durability - Damage resistance - Phase Shift - Transcendence (Ravana ability) - Dash abilities for sudden evasion - Advanced Repair Unit
My opinion is that the ability range is too far, and it needs a delay deficit on its ability to return to the translocator. However, if it does come out as is, I believe we will find a way to beat them solo and in squad. It is always like this.
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on May 10, 2020 20:18:08 GMT -5
With the release of every stupid OP Meta since SpecTrain, there is the inevitable sky-is-falling, game breaking, bot x y z ending, what can we do discussion. But so far, each successive generation of skill-erosion power for sale is run by the same group of players. Every. Single. Time. Many players of top S Clans will invest in the latest shiny toys, max em out and use em to make me wear my own 「bum-bum」 as a hat.
Instant death from stealthed bots @ 500m, dashbot savagery, HB spawn raids, AresTrain, Ao Jun, Leech, AM, etc. Meh, itâs not like the number of maxed meta hangers increases, itâs just over powered nonsense in a different shape than the last generation.
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Post by rags on May 10, 2020 20:38:39 GMT -5
With the release of every stupid OP Meta since SpecTrain, there is the inevitable sky-is-falling, game breaking, bot x y z ending, what can we do discussion. But so far, each successive generation of skill-erosion power for sale is run by the same group of players. Every. Single. Time. Many players of top S Clans will invest in the latest shiny toys, max em out and use em to make me wear my own ?bum-bum? as a hat. Instant death from stealthed bots @ 500m, dashbot savagery, HB spawn raids, AresTrain, Ao Jun, Leech, AM, etc. Meh, itâ??s not like the number of maxed meta hangers increases, itâ??s just over powered nonsense in a different shape than the last generation. The problem is every time they do this a good chunk of veteran players get fed up and leave. There’s very few skilled players left.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 21:21:21 GMT -5
With the release of every stupid OP Meta since SpecTrain, there is the inevitable sky-is-falling, game breaking, bot x y z ending, what can we do discussion. But so far, each successive generation of skill-erosion power for sale is run by the same group of players. Every. Single. Time. Many players of top S Clans will invest in the latest shiny toys, max em out and use em to make me wear my own ?bum-bum? as a hat. Instant death from stealthed bots @ 500m, dashbot savagery, HB spawn raids, AresTrain, Ao Jun, Leech, AM, etc. Meh, itâ??s not like the number of maxed meta hangers increases, itâ??s just over powered nonsense in a different shape than the last generation. Maybe things get old after a body has been through a this for awhile.....maybe it is Pix changing meta every few months instead of 8-9.....maybe itâs Pix keeping us in line with non stop events and Operations we need to grind to get stuff.....maybe Iâm just a big old 「meow」..... Dealers choice.....however, IMO, Scorpion brings way too much ez money built in than I can recall....Ares was not a big deal, until Trains....Ao Jun always is a pain, but smart play and patience wins....leech is another one where patience-and shoties nerf-takes care of those......Goldie, that one is borderline extra stupid strong, and I see Scorpion as beyond Goldie in stupidity. The sky is not falling, my friend....but it is getting very foggy out there.......
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Post by Desc440 on May 10, 2020 22:55:48 GMT -5
Honestly, if they keep it at 50% DR as it is on TS, I think it'll be fine. Strong, but not overpowering.
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Post by gravediggers on May 10, 2020 23:58:33 GMT -5
War Robots - NEXT Best Robot “Scorpion” Test Serv…:
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dekimqik
Destrier
Gaming since the 80s, War Robots since Christmas 2019.
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Pilot name: Captain Dekim
Platform: Android
League: Champion
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Weyland FTW.
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Post by dekimqik on May 11, 2020 1:39:16 GMT -5
Preliminary Counter-Scorpion Ideas The main problem with Scorpion in its current form (early May 2020) is the range of its ability, which has two aspects: - The distance they can travel - Proximity of materialization DISTANCE If we consider a variety of scenarios with the ability limited to 300m, while it is still difficult to deal with, you could at least more easily move to the location they returned to in order to engage them. When it’s 500m, that’s just ridiculous = sit behind cover, wait for enemy to slightly enter range, blink to point blank, fire, return to cover WAY out of range for that opponent to reach you. Theoretically this means weapons 500m or more might be more useful, but even then you’d have to rely on the Scorpion leaving its cover to move to a new location. 500m also clearly presents a host of other game breaking issues for every game mode, never mind the extreme disadvantage of less than optimal equipment. PROXIMITY This aspect of the ability, dare I say, seems to be designed to make more relevant all the work we did to build shotguns. That is a good thing. Nonetheless, the issue is the Scorpions ability to vanish instantly. The solution would be to give the ability to vanish a decent cooldown that delays their ability to vanish. It has remarked that the Scorpion will be a good titan killer. It may do okay finishing off weakened Titans or for assisting in their gradual degradation, particularly the Ming or Nodens, but materializing at point blank against an Arthur or Kid will not turn out well if the player doesn’t time it for after the Stove or Blastwave was just used. In general, the best counters against a sneak attack will be: - Stacked durability - Damage resistance - Phase Shift - Transcendence (Ravana ability) - Dash abilities for sudden evasion - Advanced Repair Unit My opinion is that the ability range is too far, and it needs a delay deficit on its ability to return to the translocator. However, if it does come out as is, I believe we will find a way to beat them solo and in squad. It is always like this. I agree that a 300m ability is more realistic - still going to be a pain but at least there may be options to retaliate and not just a free hit. As to the delay in teleporting back I think it would need to be an 8 - 10 seconds thing to be worthwhile. A 3 - 5 second delay is just enough for the scorpion to unload and vanish, very few weapons would benefit from a 3 second window anyway. As this is meant to be an objective thread I have to say that the "best counters" you mention, while all being true, will really limit the bot choice just to prevent an automatic insta wipe. I know that previous meta changes have done this to an extent (energy weapons devaluing anciles etc) but this list of counters is really limiting and bleak, ie - BE a ravana, BE a dashbot, BE a DR bot. I think aiming for a higher hitpool is going to be really important but still with the weapons available now an extra 50k health is 1 more second of life unless you are hitting 350k - 400k and able to survive a full cycle at point blank. On that note I don't think the advanced repair will help much either as the available dps is too high. Without boosters or pilot skills 2 cryos & 1 rime will put out approx. 190k damage in under 5 seconds. Swap out the cryos for storms and you get an extra 30k damage even quicker. Expect the players that use these bots to be getting at least 30% extra and you hit beyond what many robots can achieve in terms of durability. Not trying to be negative, I just don't see any good options with the current stats and mechanics, and I am not going to chug power cells as a precaution every time I am ambushed, that is just a loss by attrition and exactly what Pix would like.
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Post by TheDecepticonIdeal on May 11, 2020 2:46:51 GMT -5
The more I think abt it the less I care. This bot is mostly bad of Ao Jun and Leech. If you’re running anything else, Ao Jun and Leech are already so annoying to play against it can’t really be worse. At least spacing and positioning were a thing against Leech and Ao Jun. With the Scorpion, I don't even have those left
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 8:12:42 GMT -5
The more I think abt it the less I care. This bot is mostly bad of Ao Jun and Leech. If you’re running anything else, Ao Jun and Leech are already so annoying to play against it can’t really be worse. At least spacing and positioning were a thing against Leech and Ao Jun. With the Scorpion, I don't even have those left ^^^^^^^^^this At least with our current magic mess I can see it coming, even if only for a few seconds......not anymore! Does anyone really believe a game of pop in, shoot/ kill, pop out, ok Titan charged, float around and reck.....sound fun ? Or challenging? If this is pushed through, the meta following this may just turn War Robots into an idler tap tap game......
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 8:54:21 GMT -5
This next phase of pain is such a bother, and I still do not know the solution. Scorpion will turn me inside out, most likely! However, I am trying my best to keep a stiff upper lip, and press on to find a solution.....Forumers like linearblade and Ogre inspire me to suck it up and press forward! To that end, and since I still have no idea what to do about Scorpion, I finally found a reference book which will help me out....and, I ordered it this morning! Should be delivered to my home in the next week or so..... If this doesn’t help me, then nothing I know of will......
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Post by reckless1 on May 11, 2020 9:27:00 GMT -5
Meh I’ll wait for the four medium weapon version. I don’t want my helpless victims to even have a chance to turn around and face me. Plus I want a “spawn” button I can push so that me and me whole clan can instantly raid the reds. Takes too long to walk all the way across the map. But remember, we want a fair fight and don’t like rolling randoms Lame.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on May 11, 2020 9:49:58 GMT -5
Well, given my bots and their levels my own countermeasures will boil down to:
A: try to eject into my next bot before they get the kill B: see if their health bar even moves before we die C: turn and fire into the wall to show our disdain
Since I don't eject unless for valid tactical reasons, I'll be going with B and C, depending on mood!
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Post by The VVatcher on May 11, 2020 11:50:38 GMT -5
In general, the best counters against a sneak attack will be: - Stacked durability - Damage resistance - Phase Shift - Transcendence (Ravana ability) - Dash abilities for sudden evasion - Advanced Repair Unit How fast is the speed boost? I don’t know how far the medium dashbots can dash out before they take serious damage anyway. Why does it even need speed boost? This multi ability thing they’ve been doing has gotten out of hand. Did they forget to give it Aegis too?
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on May 11, 2020 11:59:25 GMT -5
In general, the best counters against a sneak attack will be: - Stacked durability - Damage resistance - Phase Shift - Transcendence (Ravana ability) - Dash abilities for sudden evasion - Advanced Repair Unit How fast is the speed boost? I don’t know how far the medium dashbots can dash out before they take serious damage anyway. Why does it even need speed boost? This multi ability thing they’ve been doing has gotten out of hand. Did they forget to give it Aegis too? Unfortunately, I think Kamiho and Bulgarsari will probably not do so well. The Haechi and Strider will do just fine, especially the Strider if people have become accustomed to tricky unpredictable dash lines
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Post by Loganspawn on May 11, 2020 12:19:05 GMT -5
With the release of every stupid OP Meta since SpecTrain, there is the inevitable sky-is-falling, game breaking, bot x y z ending, what can we do discussion. But so far, each successive generation of skill-erosion power for sale is run by the same group of players. Every. Single. Time. Many players of top S Clans will invest in the latest shiny toys, max em out and use em to make me wear my own ?bum-bum? as a hat. Instant death from stealthed bots @ 500m, dashbot savagery, HB spawn raids, AresTrain, Ao Jun, Leech, AM, etc. Meh, itâ??s not like the number of maxed meta hangers increases, itâ??s just over powered nonsense in a different shape than the last generation. The problem is every time they do this a good chunk of veteran players get fed up and leave. There’s very few skilled players left. There are some but fewer and fewer for sure, we have a number of old time skilled players in our clan but with each new super dupper OP bot and weapons needed to stay competitive at the top more drop off. It really is sad to see people you have played with for years bow out.
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Post by Loganspawn on May 11, 2020 12:21:28 GMT -5
This next phase of pain is such a bother, and I still do not know the solution. Scorpion will turn me inside out, most likely! However, I am trying my best to keep a stiff upper lip, and press on to find a solution.....Forumers like linearblade and Ogre inspire me to suck it up and press forward! To that end, and since I still have no idea what to do about Scorpion, I finally found a reference book which will help me out....and, I ordered it this morning! Should be delivered to my home in the next week or so..... If this doesn’t help me, then nothing I know of will...... All you have to do is reprogram it to win! If Kirk could I know you can to!
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 11, 2020 12:53:04 GMT -5
With the release of every stupid OP Meta since SpecTrain, there is the inevitable sky-is-falling, game breaking, bot x y z ending, what can we do discussion. But so far, each successive generation of skill-erosion power for sale is run by the same group of players. Every. Single. Time. Many players of top S Clans will invest in the latest shiny toys, max em out and use em to make me wear my own ?bum-bum? as a hat. Instant death from stealthed bots @ 500m, dashbot savagery, HB spawn raids, AresTrain, Ao Jun, Leech, AM, etc. Meh, itâ??s not like the number of maxed meta hangers increases, itâ??s just over powered nonsense in a different shape than the last generation. The problem is every time they do this a good chunk of veteran players get fed up and leave. There’s very few skilled players left. Also, it seems to usually happen once those counters that Rolly Polly spoke of filter down into the mid leagues... BAM! Here is a new stupid to deal with! To keep the thread on track... Like I said in the not so objective thread, there will deffo be counters, and it could be as easy as Stealth, or as exclusive as Ravvy Tavvy. Idk that we will be able to formulate exact counters until the final form has been achieved and let loose on the Live Server, but it's outstanding that the approach of the Forums is to "Find a Way". I am not going to be able to change up my hangar too much to deal with it, so will have to just deal with them like everything else. That said, IMO there is one thing that needs to be worked out to begin to even dream of countering it: Worst case scenarios like Death Squad spawn raids and such are pretty much pointless to think about, but for the average player, a single Scorpion, especially if it is 50% DR instead of 90%, will be surmountable as long as you have peak Battlefield Awareness. Watching a few TS vids showed that it is possible to see an enemy disappear from the Red's line of battle as the initial clash of the beginning of a match starts to happen, so you have a split second to start being ready to get the Hell out of Dodge or employ w/e counter your bot/build has. You can hopefully learn to pay attention to the Reds as the match progresses to learn how to spot names suddenly disappearing to mentally prepare for incoming. Squadding may also be a direct counter. Have one person in a Loki or other bot that is able to literally scout and keep an eye out and call out when they see a likely Scorp about to attack or that just disappeared. Just off-the-cuff thoughts... purely theoretical and not really expected to amount to much, but there you go. IMO, YMMV
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 13:11:28 GMT -5
This next phase of pain is such a bother, and I still do not know the solution. Scorpion will turn me inside out, most likely! However, I am trying my best to keep a stiff upper lip, and press on to find a solution.....Forumers like linearblade and Ogre inspire me to suck it up and press forward! To that end, and since I still have no idea what to do about Scorpion, I finally found a reference book which will help me out....and, I ordered it this morning! Should be delivered to my home in the next week or so..... If this doesn’t help me, then nothing I know of will...... All you have to do is reprogram it to win! If Kirk could I know you can to! Well, for sure and for certain Pix sure knows how........
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 13:53:00 GMT -5
So, watching more videos with Scorpions....I’ll just say I’m glad I don’t have a Ming.....Ming is in big trouble, cause Scorpion don’t need to work it way close in...it’s just blink...there....only thing to do may be drop Ming right away, spam heal..... My hope is some poor slob Witt pop his toy near my Anti-Everything build, which is still being max’d..... I am surprised how strong this puppy is becoming....despite losing my impressive Ag pile.....worth it! Now, just need to work the other 4..... Sidenote....if Scorpion pops to an airborne Ming, it materializes mid air, then falls, shooting, lol!
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Post by reconnecting on May 11, 2020 15:46:52 GMT -5
I haven’t read the whole thread here, but what comes to mind is that my tank bots will enjoy having reds jump into range only to get smashed by cryos or tasers. Then they will laugh. It beats plodding across the map to get to reds. My freeze rocket Leo especially will benefit. ? At just 1.10 he is a monster.
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Post by reconnecting on May 11, 2020 16:02:46 GMT -5
So, watching more videos with Scorpions....I’ll just say I’m glad I don’t have a Ming.....Ming is in big trouble, cause Scorpion don’t need to work it way close in...it’s just blink...there....only thing to do may be drop Ming right away, spam heal..... My hope is some poor slob Witt pop his toy near my Anti-Everything build, which is still being max’d..... I am surprised how strong this puppy is becoming....despite losing my impressive Ag pile.....worth it! Now, just need to work the other 4..... Sidenote....if Scorpion pops to an airborne Ming, it materializes mid air, then falls, shooting, lol! I just had an Awesome match with my Fenrir, about same level as yours. I have Scourges on it and Spark. With its modules and pilot skills it takes a beating and still kicks boot. Reds tried to take a beacon near home and were rolling us up bad. Ten just dropped on that beacon and held it like a champ. Like 5 reds at a time. Killed 7 altogether. Wish I had recorded it. Scorps beware, Fen awaits you.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 16:34:42 GMT -5
So, watching more videos with Scorpions....I’ll just say I’m glad I don’t have a Ming.....Ming is in big trouble, cause Scorpion don’t need to work it way close in...it’s just blink...there....only thing to do may be drop Ming right away, spam heal..... My hope is some poor slob Witt pop his toy near my Anti-Everything build, which is still being max’d..... I am surprised how strong this puppy is becoming....despite losing my impressive Ag pile.....worth it! Now, just need to work the other 4..... Sidenote....if Scorpion pops to an airborne Ming, it materializes mid air, then falls, shooting, lol! I just had an Awesome match with my Fenrir, about same level as yours. I have Scourges on it and Spark. With its modules and pilot skills it takes a beating and still kicks boot. Reds tried to take a beacon near home and were rolling us up bad. Ten just dropped on that beacon and held it like a champ. Like 5 reds at a time. Killed 7 altogether. Wish I had recorded it. Scorps beware, Fen awaits you. Fenrir, indeed! And friends!
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 21:09:32 GMT -5
This next phase of pain is such a bother, and I still do not know the solution. Scorpion will turn me inside out, most likely! However, I am trying my best to keep a stiff upper lip, and press on to find a solution.....Forumers like linearblade and Ogre inspire me to suck it up and press forward! To that end, and since I still have no idea what to do about Scorpion, I finally found a reference book which will help me out....and, I ordered it this morning! Should be delivered to my home in the next week or so..... If this doesn’t help me, then nothing I know of will...... All you have to do is reprogram it to win! If Kirk could I know you can to! Get inside Pix HQ & take over / reprogram War Robots...
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Post by tolmyking on May 11, 2020 21:42:07 GMT -5
All you have to do is reprogram it to win! If Kirk could I know you can to! Get inside Pix HQ & take over / reprogram War Robots... You go on and have fun. with that.
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Post by gravediggers on May 11, 2020 22:28:46 GMT -5
Kind of the opposite to Phantom I guess time will tell
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Post by Loganspawn on May 12, 2020 8:23:57 GMT -5
All you have to do is reprogram it to win! If Kirk could I know you can to! Get inside Pix HQ & take over / reprogram War Robots... "I dont like to lose"
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Post by RightOn on May 12, 2020 8:52:09 GMT -5
If I hacked Pix HQ... reset and cap all player's gear to 1 permanently
laughs ensue
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on May 12, 2020 11:21:03 GMT -5
If I hacked Pix HQ... reset and cap all player's gear to 1 permanently laughs ensue Skill would mean way more and the matchmaking would be far less of an issue then. +1
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