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Post by linearblade on Oct 15, 2017 5:08:22 GMT -5
Really we are talking about 1 single bot configuration... haechi with orkans.
So this conversation should be about an orkan cap more than haechi brokenness.
I have yet to encounter a single haechi configuration that causes trouble but for dreaded triple orkan haechi.
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Post by linearblade on Oct 15, 2017 5:11:53 GMT -5
Haechi should have only 1 weapon slot. And should be configured like this. Then all the whiners will feel it's balanced
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bluestreak
Destrier
Posts: 77
Karma: 74
Pilot name: Blue Streak
Platform: Facebook
Clan: Devil's Empire
League: Champion
Favorite robot: Bulgasari
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Post by bluestreak on Oct 15, 2017 9:51:01 GMT -5
Haechi should have only 1 weapon slot. And should be configured like this. Then all the whiners will feel it's balanced That's actually a rather pretty shot. Looks very Gundam-ish
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waffles
GI. Patton
Posts: 133
Karma: 98
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
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Post by waffles on Oct 15, 2017 10:38:29 GMT -5
They aren't that hard to kill, it just requires that the person fighting them to use their head and anticipate where they are going to move and when they will use their dash. Also, just getting inside their shield; or to assist teammates who have beat down the ancile to almost nothing, then finish them off. All Ranged weapons are far more OP than this bot is; and they are generally getting buffs. Just to be clear, I don't have any of them. Oh here's a another one ... "They're not OP, because I'm in down in Silver League playing against noob pilots who don't know what the heck they're doing."
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Post by hyderier on Oct 15, 2017 12:05:52 GMT -5
Really we are talking about 1 single bot configuration... haechi with orkans. So this conversation should be about an orkan cap more than haechi brokenness. I have yet to encounter a single haechi configuration that causes trouble but for dreaded triple orkan haechi. Haechi in effect sidesteps the short range of Orkans. It allows using Orkans while largely avoiding the risk of using them. Kumiho is ok, because it has only 2 Orkans, and doesn't have Ancile. Haechi allows dealing 3 Orkan salvos of damage (read: killing almost any bot) without receiving any damage back, so it can keep going almost indefinitely if player is careful in choosing the right target (one without energy weapons), and the victim can only try to escape and hope to have plasma-equipped teammates to show up and save them. Taran Haechi is slightly less OP, because while 3 Orkans can overpower an Ancile and damage the bot in a few seconds, 3 Tarans are less effective, slower against physical shields. So Taran Haechis can be tackled with in shield bots. And nobody uses Tulu or Punisher Haechis, I suppose, because why would they? Orkans do more damage, and are almost as safe to use on a Haechi.
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weaksauce
Destrier
Posts: 116
Karma: 132
Platform: Android
Clan: DR
League: Champion
Favorite robot: SithLordAsasri
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Post by weaksauce on Oct 15, 2017 13:08:48 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents.
The game is evolving, somewhat like reality. Gratz to you if you were playing the original bots on the test servers 2 years ago. You loved your Bi-planes.
Some of you yelled and yelled when ancilots came. Then you got one and you cried in joy at your P-51 mustangs cuz they could crush the old Bi-planes.
Now the new F-14's are here crushing and more yelling.
Relax my friend. You will have one soon. As soon as they are about to drop the YF-22 Rapters. Then their can be more yelling.
But be Thankful we don't all still have to fly the Bi-planes anymore, well, untill after level 15 or so at least.
If nothing else, thank you pix for continuing to add new content. The good gamers will adapt. The rigid gamers will fade. The new blood will grow with the game, unknowing of it's meger Bi-Plane past.
I enjoyed the game with my Bi-plane bots. I enjoyed with my P-51's. And I'll enjoy the game with a dash of what's new, and I'll adapt to whatever is next, Win or lose.
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Post by hyderier on Oct 15, 2017 13:30:05 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents. The game is evolving, somewhat like reality. Gratz to you if you were playing the original bots on the test servers 2 years ago. You loved your Bi-planes. Some of you yelled and yelled when ancilots came. Then you got one and you cried in joy at your P-51 mustangs cuz they could crush the old Bi-planes. Now the new F-14's are here crushing and more yelling. Relax my friend. You will have one soon. As soon as they are about to drop the YF-22 Rapters. Then their can be more yelling. But be Thankful we don't all still have to fly the Bi-planes anymore, well, untill after level 15 or so at least. If nothing else, thank you pix for continuing to add new content. The good gamers will adapt. The rigid gamers will fade. The new blood will grow with the game, unknowing of it's meger Bi-Plane past. I enjoyed the game with my Bi-plane bots. I enjoyed with my P-51's. And I'll enjoy the game with a dash of what's new, and I'll adapt to whatever is next, Win or lose. Sounds like you don't realize, that F2P players are essential content of the game. And F2P players will disappear, if they are doomed to play biplanes against fighter jets. "You will have one soon", I doubt that. Pix have dug themselves in a hole. They have provided new content with prices matching about a year of grinding. Now they can't just drop the price radically. In other words, we will not have them soon.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Oct 15, 2017 14:48:37 GMT -5
The problem with every rubbish argument I see about how "skill trumps loadout" is that it's predicated on the idea that the pilot in the vastly superior machine won't also be of equal skill to you, or have just as strong teamwork in group tactics. Yes, I once killed a full-health Leo with a Stalker, that doesn't make the two machines equal in a fight, and you'd deserve to be laughed at for making such a ridiculous argument if you suggested otherwise. Who said anything about skill. If skill isn't factored in, you're doing it wrong.
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Kaliaila
Destrier
Posts: 13
Karma: 1
Pilot name: Kaliaila 9JU93
Platform: Multiple
League: Silver
Server Region: North America
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Post by Kaliaila on Oct 15, 2017 16:20:25 GMT -5
They aren't that hard to kill, it just requires that the person fighting them to use their head and anticipate where they are going to move and when they will use their dash. Also, just getting inside their shield; or to assist teammates who have beat down the ancile to almost nothing, then finish them off. All Ranged weapons are far more OP than this bot is; and they are generally getting buffs. Just to be clear, I don't have any of them. Oh here's a another one ... "They're not OP, because I'm in down in Silver League playing against noob pilots who don't know what the heck they're doing." Lol, it is honestly easier at the higher levels because they are less likely to do something stupid instead of the smart thing. It just comes down to faster reaction time then. What's even funnier is your elitist attitude that assumes that these effectively newborn 'bots can only possibly be piloted well by those in the very top leagues. That is just silly. Who said anything about skill. If skill isn't factored in, you're doing it wrong. The limited choices available and the most likely path, makes it not that much skill and more of luck with who will react faster. My building up my speed might be skill but the other person being slower is all luck.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Oct 15, 2017 17:01:20 GMT -5
Oh here's a another one ... "They're not OP, because I'm in down in Silver League playing against noob pilots who don't know what the heck they're doing." Lol, it is honestly easier at the higher levels because they are less likely to do something stupid instead of the smart thing. It just comes down to faster reaction time then. What's even funnier is your elitist attitude that assumes that these effectively newborn 'bots can only possibly be piloted well by those in the very top leagues. That is just silly. If skill isn't factored in, you're doing it wrong. The limited choices available and the most likely path, makes it not that much skill and more of luck with who will react faster. My building up my speed might be skill but the other person being slower is all luck. Every single thing you posted here is rubbish. You are clearly being obtuse, and deliberate or no, I'm not dignifying your nonsense with further response.
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Kaliaila
Destrier
Posts: 13
Karma: 1
Pilot name: Kaliaila 9JU93
Platform: Multiple
League: Silver
Server Region: North America
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Post by Kaliaila on Oct 15, 2017 17:34:30 GMT -5
Lol, it is honestly easier at the higher levels because they are less likely to do something stupid instead of the smart thing. It just comes down to faster reaction time then. What's even funnier is your elitist attitude that assumes that these effectively newborn 'bots can only possibly be piloted well by those in the very top leagues. That is just silly. The limited choices available and the most likely path, makes it not that much skill and more of luck with who will react faster. My building up my speed might be skill but the other person being slower is all luck. Every single thing you posted here is rubbish. You are clearly being obtuse, and deliberate or no, I'm not dignifying your nonsense with further response. What I posted is reality and the truth. Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Let us say that two people won a Haechi the same day at the same time and played with it the same amount. They learned to do the same things with it the same way. What league they are in is meaningless. They will have the same skill and knowledge of the bot and how to use it best. The person in the higher league isn't going to magically be better just because of the stupid league tag.
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Post by Domino on Oct 15, 2017 19:29:10 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents. The game is evolving, somewhat like reality. Gratz to you if you were playing the original bots on the test servers 2 years ago. You loved your Bi-planes. Some of you yelled and yelled when ancilots came. Then you got one and you cried in joy at your P-51 mustangs cuz they could crush the old Bi-planes. Now the new F-14's are here crushing and more yelling. Relax my friend. You will have one soon. As soon as they are about to drop the YF-22 Rapters. Then their can be more yelling. But be Thankful we don't all still have to fly the Bi-planes anymore, well, untill after level 15 or so at least. If nothing else, thank you pix for continuing to add new content. The good gamers will adapt. The rigid gamers will fade. The new blood will grow with the game, unknowing of it's meger Bi-Plane past. I enjoyed the game with my Bi-plane bots. I enjoyed with my P-51's. And I'll enjoy the game with a dash of what's new, and I'll adapt to whatever is next, Win or lose. Descend and Burner are going to be Star Trek, not F-22s.. j/k No the new descend will be a flop at this rate, and maybe then management will go back to the devs and say, "Make a bot that will sell like the k-bots did". That's when we will see Star Trek stuff. I cant imagine what that bot will be but rest assured it will help spiral this game further down the hole if they try to match or outmatched the K-bots. It's going to take some serious tweaking if they care to make the kbot some what balanced with the rest of the game.
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Post by SuperHero on Oct 15, 2017 20:47:38 GMT -5
Every single thing you posted here is rubbish. You are clearly being obtuse, and deliberate or no, I'm not dignifying your nonsense with further response. What I posted is reality and the truth. Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Let us say that two people won a Haechi the same day at the same time and played with it the same amount. They learned to do the same things with it the same way. What league they are in is meaningless. They will have the same skill and knowledge of the bot and how to use it best. The person in the higher league isn't going to magically be better just because of the stupid league tag. I actually have to disagree with you. The chap in the higher league (assuming no tanking or fading etc) has the benefit of experience with overall gameplay, tactical acumen, tactical and strategic awareness, knowledge of how each weapon option will behave. They will know maps better and also have better control of heir new bot faster due to experience. if you put a new graduated pilot into an F-22 vs someone who has been a test pilot for years, guess who gets used to the plane easier? More so if the person has been on the test server the whole time. Leagues do matter because it generally proves an accumulation of experience that cannot be ignored. Even bot levels can be bought, but wins and leagues generally can’t. to be fair, there are idiots and morons in every league including Champ. But the generally what I just said holds true. All u need to do is place a Champ and a silver player in a custom match with the same bots and you will see the difference. And yes, I’ve done that already. i have dash bots, and I’ve killed dash bots. I help run help chats for folks starting out in the game as well as folks in silver all the way to Champ. I respect your opinion, but if you truly Are only in Silver, then you are talking about this as an intellectual exercise with no real experience and credibility to back you up.
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Kaliaila
Destrier
Posts: 13
Karma: 1
Pilot name: Kaliaila 9JU93
Platform: Multiple
League: Silver
Server Region: North America
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Post by Kaliaila on Oct 15, 2017 21:19:12 GMT -5
The game is not that complex. There is not that much to it. The maps are all simple and easily memorized. The length of play is not going to make you any better at controlling the new bot either.
You are making a false equivalency with your pilot comparison. When you actually pilot something there are innumerable things to make note of that is not true with this game. There is just what is shown on the screen and how you control it. The latter doesn't change much after you reach the silver to gold range.
The only thing that time changes is how much silver and gold you likely have built up to quickly upgrade the bots.
Put the Champ and the Silver players in identical bots and you will be in for a rude awakening.
Also, wins are easily bought in this game, because the upgrades and weapons are what make them. There are just as many highly tactical and knowledgeable players per capita in the mid-level leagues as there are at the top. The thing that separates them from the higher tier players is only the time or money investment to get silver and gold to upgrade their bots.
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Post by SuperHero on Oct 15, 2017 22:38:46 GMT -5
The game is not that complex. There is not that much to it. The maps are all simple and easily memorized. The length of play is not going to make you any better at controlling the new bot either. You are making a false equivalency with your pilot comparison. When you actually pilot something there are innumerable things to make note of that is not true with this game. There is just what is shown on the screen and how you control it. The latter doesn't change much after you reach the silver to gold range. The only thing that time changes is how much silver and gold you likely have built up to quickly upgrade the bots. Put the Champ and the Silver players in identical bots and you will be in for a rude awakening. Also, wins are easily bought in this game, because the upgrades and weapons are what make them. There are just as many highly tactical and knowledgeable players per capita in the mid-level leagues as there are at the top. The thing that separates them from the higher tier players is only the time or money investment to get silver and gold to upgrade their bots. Well, say what you want, but if you have read my previous post, i have ALREADY seen champ and silver pilots in identical bots and there WAS a rude awakening, for the silver player that is. He got crushed. Custom matches with stock bots makes it easy to accomplish your theoretical scenario. And naturally as I mentioned already, leagues cant be bought since i have met maxed players who are so crap they are still stuck in Expert while meeting excellent folks at 9/10 who are already champs. It also doesnt equate well due to the fact that leagues are activity based. However, if you are good, you will naturally progress up the leagues. Upgrades only move you up to a certain extent. You then hit the ceiling that only skill and experience can move you further. I was stuck in Expert and Master for a long time regardless of my hangar until i learned how to play better. I would LOVE to see your hangar and stats to see how you have been doing in Silver. I'm not trying to denigrate silver players, most players I know (who have not used cash) get past silver VERY fast and make their way to Gold and beyond. Some have done so in a day. So I'm not sure why you are still there. It's so interesting to hear someone who hasn't been there and done that talking with such intellectual authority on a topic he has no experience in. And worse still disparaging the comments and input from folks who have already gone beyond him. I look forward to seeing your hangar and stats.
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Post by hyderier on Oct 16, 2017 1:52:43 GMT -5
Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Ha. No. Skill is giving your enemy zero good options. Preferably so that they don't even realize they have no good options.
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Post by SuperHero on Oct 16, 2017 2:17:34 GMT -5
Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Ha. No. Skill is giving your enemy zero good options. Preferably so that they don't even realize they have no good options. Well said. In addition, this game is still about rock,paper,scissors,lizard,Spock. U rarely get 2 folks going at each other in the same bot. and we had one super long timer also make a good point about how this game has also lost some of the skill factor since the ascent of the britbots. Less skill, cover, evasion and tactics have been used thanks to shields.
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Post by javelinaut717 on Oct 16, 2017 2:34:16 GMT -5
Why not change one or two of it slot from med to light weapon? If anyone want to keep three slot?
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Post by zeframmann on Oct 16, 2017 3:24:45 GMT -5
Why not change one or two of it slot from med to light weapon? If anyone want to keep three slot? This is another change I would fully support. It'd bring its firepower down in line with a Galahad. It'd still have a huge mobility advantage, but it'd be a lot more fair and manageable.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 16, 2017 3:35:25 GMT -5
Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Ha. No. Skill is giving your enemy zero good options. Preferably so that they don't even realize they have no good options. We got a new approach for Kaliaila.. He's just simply going "la la la la la" pfft.
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Post by javelinaut717 on Oct 16, 2017 4:38:32 GMT -5
Why not change one or two of it slot from med to light weapon? If anyone want to keep three slot? This is another change I would fully support. It'd bring its firepower down in line with a Galahad. It'd still have a huge mobility advantage, but it'd be a lot more fair and manageable. Yeah Keep Bulgasari and Fuiji be more purpose as a heavy dmg role otherwise it is useless concept bot that people will over pick heachi instead.
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Post by DirtyLikaRat® on Oct 16, 2017 4:42:25 GMT -5
How bout an OP rebalance for posting this by removing his head from his 「bum-bum」? Take away a weapon slot? Oi Vey.. Ya meshugada
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Post by linearblade on Oct 16, 2017 8:32:56 GMT -5
Really we are talking about 1 single bot configuration... haechi with orkans. So this conversation should be about an orkan cap more than haechi brokenness. I have yet to encounter a single haechi configuration that causes trouble but for dreaded triple orkan haechi. Haechi in effect sidesteps the short range of Orkans. It allows using Orkans while largely avoiding the risk of using them. Kumiho is ok, because it has only 2 Orkans, and doesn't have Ancile. Haechi allows dealing 3 Orkan salvos of damage (read: killing almost any bot) without receiving any damage back, so it can keep going almost indefinitely if player is careful in choosing the right target (one without energy weapons), and the victim can only try to escape and hope to have plasma-equipped teammates to show up and save them. Taran Haechi is slightly less OP, because while 3 Orkans can overpower an Ancile and damage the bot in a few seconds, 3 Tarans are less effective, slower against physical shields. So Taran Haechis can be tackled with in shield bots. And nobody uses Tulu or Punisher Haechis, I suppose, because why would they? Orkans do more damage, and are almost as safe to use on a Haechi. I exclusively use a punisher haechi. I prefer them over the short range of tarans. Primarily because haechi is an expensive bot to trade against a tarancilot. I also used tulu on my bulgasari until I got a doc. Actually both load out are excellent... just not as good as orkans on haechi. The only reason I don't go orkan currently is because most of my matches involve 12/12 champion games. And my weapons are 9-10. So getting in close is futile.
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Post by stokr on Oct 16, 2017 8:45:26 GMT -5
Put the Champ and the Silver players in identical bots and you will be in for a rude awakening. Patently false. I have went through the lower leagues a few times. I can tell you without reservation after doing so I was completely cured of any notion that bronze, silver, or gold players are the same as champs only without the gear. Please post a screenshot of your hangar and tell us your start date.
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waffles
GI. Patton
Posts: 133
Karma: 98
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
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Post by waffles on Oct 16, 2017 9:10:16 GMT -5
Every single thing you posted here is rubbish. You are clearly being obtuse, and deliberate or no, I'm not dignifying your nonsense with further response. What I posted is reality and the truth. Good players all do the smart things which are relatively limited, and the bad players do stupid things which are nigh unlimited. You can anticipate a limited number of options but not an unlimited one. Let us say that two people won a Haechi the same day at the same time and played with it the same amount. They learned to do the same things with it the same way. What league they are in is meaningless. They will have the same skill and knowledge of the bot and how to use it best. The person in the higher league isn't going to magically be better just because of the stupid league tag. What you posted is rubbish and a you're just a noob running his mouth off. When you get to Champions league maybe you'll have the credibility to make such claims.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 13:29:17 GMT -5
They aren't that hard to kill, it just requires that the person fighting them to use their head and anticipate where they are going to move and when they will use their dash. That's some absolute bull「dookie」 from a Silver Leagued player. You have obviously not seen any half-decent pilot in a Haechi and the Dashes you probably have seen are lucky, extremely casual players farting around in a some robots. In the current meta, I believe that many players have agreed on that the best non-Dash counters for Dashers are Plasma Griffins, Taran Rogs and Zeus platforms. And even those builds cannot reliably take down a Dash robot with the exception of the Zeus Fury in only 2 maps.
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Post by Domino on Oct 16, 2017 14:00:44 GMT -5
Can we please move past the stage of trying to justify the Dash as not being OP please? Seriously, it doesn't have a leg to stand on and nobody has yet to present any good tactic on it that will be usable under most circumstances.
Consider your ignorance on the OP Dash to be a blessing, I'm now in Diamond 1 avoiding that whole 「dookie」show now. I still see 25%-40% of my matches have tankers and some dashs, but I find that far far better than where I was before.
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Post by SuperHero on Oct 17, 2017 1:22:01 GMT -5
Only the Haechi is OP to be fair.
Orkans Haechi are devastating but can be countered by things like plasma rogs. But plasma Haechis are a real handful and only an plasma ancilot really has a chance at close range,
This is the reason u have started seeing a slew of Zeus Furies and Carnages appearing. And the reason why they invented the Scourge even though that hasn’t really been effective.
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Post by WilsonK on Oct 17, 2017 1:54:52 GMT -5
Only the Haechi is OP to be fair. Orkans Haechi are devastating but can be countered by things like plasma rogs. But plasma Haechis are a real handful and only an plasma ancilot really has a chance at close range, This is the reason u have started seeing a slew of Zeus Furies and Carnages appearing. And the reason why they invented the Scourge even though that hasn’t really been effective. Spitting Chickens (Plasma Haechis) are PAINFUL af. Even for a Tarancilot. One burst cycle deals 30k damage. Ouch... But if I'll ever get the chance to lay my hands on a Chicken, Imma make it a spitting one!
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Post by Crow T. Robot on Oct 17, 2017 3:39:27 GMT -5
it doesn't need to be rebalanced, they are easy to take apart if you time it right. I agree, there are an awful lot of whiners here.
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