|
Post by frunobulax on Sept 8, 2017 8:16:41 GMT -5
There has been quite some discussion about the Dash bots, but most quickly developed into a rant about Pixos business model. Maybe we can mange a thread that discusses their true value, and where they stand in comparison to Lance, Griffin and the like. I have aquired 2 Dash bots (Komiho and Bulgasari) on my FB account. I was pretty lucky to get them for 84€ which bought me the 13.000 key package. My daughter urged me to put them into battle right away, so I did, level 1, and was amazed about how good the Bulgasari is even at level 1. So, I planned to do some number crunching, and here we go. All values at level 12. HP: Kumiho/Haechi 150k, Bulgasari 190k. That's roughly the value of a Griffin (158k) for the first two, the Bulgasari has 15% more HP than the normal heavy robots (Fury, Lance, Natty, Rhino all just over 170k), but less than a Leo (226). Speed: Kumiho 60, Haechi 45, Bulgasari 40. That's faster than any heavy robot (Butch is the best at 39, Raijin 36, Griffin 35). Damage potential. One important benchmark is how much damage a robot can do in short time. An Orkan Dash can deal 120k (Kumiho) or 180k (others) damage in 4s. That's similar to DB Griffin (170k in 4s), Thunder Orkan Lance (180k in 4 seconds, 225k in 7 seconds). Obviously much better than a PDB Griff (200k in 9.6 seconds) or a Punisher Griff from point blank range (60k in 3s, 180k in 7s, 30k DPS after than). Strategy: The double dash allows to dash out of cover, unload Rockets, dash back into cover. Even though the Kumiho can do this a bit better than the other two due to the short cooldown, that makes all of them ideal rocket carriers. - Kumiho.
Summary: The Kumiho is good, but not OP.
Detail:It's built a lot like the Rogatka - it has the same firepower, same ground speed, same HP. The only difference is Dash vs. Jump. Dash doesn't have that big influence on the speed.
IMO the Kumiho is a good robot, but not OP. He's a bit better than the Rog because Dashing is a bit easier to control than jump, but the Rog does not dominate the high leagues even after its recent buff, and I don't see the Kumiho dominating either. The reason for that is simply the lower firepower, compared to say a DB Griffin: If I meet any enemy except Leo/Raijin 1vs1, I can kill it with one burst. DB Griffin has over 160k burst damage and will take down any robot in the 174k HP with minimal reloading. Basically I don't have to worry about getting back into cover in 1vs1 cases, that's why it is called death button, the other robot dies. The Kumiho does not have that sweet 160k damage potential, and chances are that the enemy robot will have all its weapons left even after taking 120k damage.
- Bulgasari.
Summary: I give it the advantage over both Griffin and Lancelot, but don't consider it overpowered. It's a tough opponent with the physical shield, but it can be taken down by rockets very much like a Lancelot. I think it should be nerfed slightly.
Detail: It does have a very powerful shield, but it's not a real brawler because the shield covers only one side, and not the side the weapons are on. Therefore, I would consider Orkans as the best loadout by far - use the shield if you have to move across open spaces against snipers and energy weapons, but you can't hope for much protection if you want to slug it out with a Punsher Leo.
The question is, how does it shape up against a Lance or a Griffin? I run 2 Griffins and 2 Lancelots, and like it that way, because I consider both as "the best" for certain game situation, and think that's a very balanced hangar. With Orkans, it does have roughly the same damage potential as a Thunder Orkan Lance or a DB Griffin. Vs. a Griffin, I think the Dash gives it a big advantage over the Griff. A Griff can jump in and kill or walk in and jump out, bit it can't jump in _and_ out. And a Griffin is never a brawler, while a Bulgasari can push for a beacon if it's not defended by a rocket build. Bulgasari wins, yes, and I would replace one of my DB Griffins with a Bulgasari, and that's even though I love the DB Griff and run two in my hangar. Vs. the Thorkalot (Thunder Orkan Lance), the ground speed is significantly better (40 to 30, with 2x Dash being roughly equivalent to Rush). The shield will protect it less vs. Thunders/Punishers/Molots but better vs. Zeus/Snipers. The Lance packs a bit more firepower from point blank range with its Thunder, but is worse against shielded opponents. Slight advantage to Bulgasari, but I think the Thorkalot is not far behind. Vs. an Ancilot, that's a bit apples to oranges. I run both Taran Ancilot and Thunder Orkan Lance, and for good reason as there are matchups where the Ancilot is the better robot.
- Haechi.
Summary: That one is OP and should be nerfed significantly.
Detail: Most of what I've said about the Bulgasari is true for the Haechi. But it has 3 advantages over the Bulgasari: Regenerating Ancile, higher base speed, faster Dash cooldown. It does have 40k less HP though. But the Ancile is really the biggie - the high leagues are currently dominated by Orkan builds. I don't see Scourge shaking up the rocket meta yet, so an Ancile is really a huge advantage. All existing "meta" robots either have no Ancile (Torkalot, Griffin) or inferior firepower (Ancilot, Rhino) or not rocket loadout (Carnage). The Haechi is the only robot that has both, superior firepower and Ancile. And in high leagues I'll trade a physical shield, no matter how strong, for an Ancile every day. Yes, the Ancile has only 75. But with the double dash, if you are up against a DB Griffin you can dash out of cover, fire for 2-3 seconds, dash back into cover. The Griff pilot has to react, but even if he waits for the Dash he can only do ~120k damage in 3 seconds (considering the travel time of Orkans), which would deplete 1/3 of the Dash HP. If the Griffin takes the same damage, it will have only 40k health left. And if the Haechi manages to stay in cover for 10 seconds, the Ancile will be regenerated enough to finish the Griffin for good without taking further damage. And one main way to take out robots with physical shields is to aim missiles in a way that the splash damage gets them. For the Haechi, the Ancile will take care of most of that. As for the usual Griffin weakness against snipers: On many maps you can dash from cover to cover. In DC or Shenzen no Zeus or Trebuchet will be able to hurt the Haechi, unlike the Griffin that is often hit in mid air by snipers or Zeus.
To sum it up: Compared to Griffin, superior mobility and Ancile. Compared to the Ancilot, it has almost the same HP, but 50% more firepower plus mobility. Compared to the Torkalot, superior mobility and Ancile for just a bit less HP and no physical shield. Compared to the Bulgasari, superior mobility and better shield for just a bit less HP.
|
|
|
Post by cypho on Sept 8, 2017 8:31:26 GMT -5
Nice post. I've not been lucky enough to acquire a dash bot yet but had thought the Haechi would suit me best and what you have said seems to confirm that. Back to grinding keys now!
|
|
|
Post by Koalabear on Sept 8, 2017 8:44:15 GMT -5
Basically, I would compare the Haechi and Bulasari to the Fujin in terms of firepower. Same 3 medium hard points. 3 level 7 orkans can melt most lights/mediums and some heavies in 1 salvo. I just took out a Lancelot in Shenzhen with a full volley today. Don't know what level, but it didn't even fire it's weapons once. Of course I caught it on the side as it was advancing from the centre beacon and didn't even see me there. Where these two dash bots defer of course is their mobility. I had a game, again in Shezhen, where I toasted a half life Leo. My Bulg was down to 1/4 life, but I had all three orkans left. The guy respawned in a Natasha. Full health. Thanks to my higher speed, and dash, I was able to dance around a building, keep it between us. He got some good shots in, and I lost an orkan. I'm confident I would've gotten him eventually, but a friendly DB Griffin showed up and toasted him. THAT is the main advantage that dash bots have. Yes, they're unbalanced in 1v1, but not OP. Especially since, if I bring out my Bulg too early, EVERY red out there comes gunning for me. I've literally seen them abandon their current task, beacon capping, or engaging a blue, just to get a piece of me!
I haven't seen many Haechis, but the few I've seen. Yes, way OP. It needs a nerf. Either bring the firepower down to 2 hard points, or nerf the base health or speed, or nerf the ancile health.
|
|
|
Post by F-A-H-Q on Sept 8, 2017 9:15:35 GMT -5
Haechi is very much like a DB in how you play, cover till you have the resource to eliminate a red. Haechi in groups is similar to a horde of lance coming at you. The difference is Haechi is like a carnage in is venerability to plasma. This bot is not invincible-you have to choose your target well. Scourge does work well against dash especially out of orkan range. I would say these bad boys are not as OP as a maxed ancilot (taran or orkan version) is. My set up is lvl 11 bot and lvl 12 orks. One on One at knifer range they are formidable. If you are in say a tartan ancilot or a PDB, stay at 320 meters and the bot is toast. If you are in knifer distance, thunderorkan lance is gonna smoke a haechi. Its essentially like taking out a lance.
|
|
|
Post by Jame-thon on Sept 8, 2017 9:57:20 GMT -5
I don't know what you've been smoking but the Kumiho is amazing. I'm getting quite good with it and have seen some lethal pilots with it. You got to maximize his strong points. Your comment about "Dash doesn't have that a big influence on speed." A back to back dash ability before the cool down? It is the fastest thing out there.
|
|
f1amereaver
Destrier
Posts: 91
Karma: 36
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Kumiho
|
Post by f1amereaver on Sept 8, 2017 10:10:39 GMT -5
I agree with fahq with regard to the Haechi, I dont think that it is OP - its still defeatable, its alot more squishy that an Ancile Orkan Lance yes it does have more firepower but then you dont have a physical sheild or as powerfull energy sheild - Thunder carnage 1 vs 1 will usually take mine down but not the ancile orkan lance that I used to run.
Whithout an actual price how can any of the Dash bots be called OP - if they cost as much as a butch in gold for instance this is alot more than the Lance build above so why shouldn't it be as good as it is.
Having used the Haechi in a few battles now I think its really a great bot, the lesser value of the energy sheild actually ballances it really well, which is why I dont think that it is OP - yes its better than DB griffin but then so is a Ancile Orkan Lance - however 1 vs 1 its still a close call with the lance but does more damage to the Haechi if you hit it right.
As the Skill level of the players improve I think we will get a better idea if these bots are OP or not - as it stands I dont think any of them are OP
|
|
|
Post by MCYL on Sept 8, 2017 10:14:41 GMT -5
I don't know what you've been smoking but the Kumiho is amazing. I'm getting quite good with it and have seen some lethal pilots with it. You got to maximize his strong points. Your comment about "Dash doesn't have that a big influence on speed." A back to back dash ability before the cool down? It is the fastest thing out there. That's the one I want. There have been pilots with them that have given me pause whilst engaging them. Then after it's dead, the rest of their hangar reveals them as rather mediocre. In short periods they DO make the bad look good. Once it twice a day I can manage to play an entire match with an orkan Rog. With one of these, a one bot match could easily be a common occurrence.
|
|
|
Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Sept 8, 2017 10:35:47 GMT -5
1. Bulgasari is probably fine but even 40km speed + slow reload dash is too fast for a heavy durability bot, shield is awkward to use in a knife fight, fine for crossing open areas against plasma/kinetics.
2. Kumiho - Disgustingly OP, in my opinion the best of the three looking from a vacuum. It's crazy crazy fast, two orkans make it super dangerous. Often in Beacon Rush is can take center beacon by 200-300km vs Stalker/Jesse etc AND kill the first bot contesting the beacon (another light/rog) while getting away to reload.
3. Heachi - OP. The combination of speed, ancile AND three medium hardpoints is pretty silly. Take away a hardpoint or lower the ancile, or VASTLY reduce the cooldown on dash to Bulg levels.
|
|
|
Post by Demosthenes on Sept 8, 2017 10:49:08 GMT -5
I don't have a dash 'bot, however in iOS Expert I have had several matches against Champion level squads where each red had three or more.
If they have spent a fair chunk of change to get one, they must have liked them quite a lot to spend even more money getting another two or three. Which indicates they think they are OP.
When six red dash 'bots spawn and blue have none, I think they are OP.
Isolated Mk1, nice turn of speed, not OP.
Isolated Mk3, dies to rockets just like everything else.
Isolated Mk2, I think it has just a few too many advantages. Dash in, unload, dash out. Ancile recharges. Imagine a Griffin if it had two jumps. Or a Fujin with a permanent Ancile.
|
|
f1amereaver
Destrier
Posts: 91
Karma: 36
League: Expert
Server Region: Europe
Favorite robot: Kumiho
|
Post by f1amereaver on Sept 8, 2017 10:52:36 GMT -5
Having looked up the stats for the Carnage's sheild - I will conceed that the Ancile on the haechi is slightly OP - it should be reduced in line with the carnage - but keep its same regen speed which I have no stats for but it feels slower than the carnage and the hard point ancile.
|
|
|
Post by bugdoc on Sept 8, 2017 10:59:18 GMT -5
Agreed with the OP's assessment. I was hoping for the Haechi, but rolled a pair of Kumiho instead. I leveled up one and used it quite a bit, and find it's very much like the Rog: Fun as hell to pilot, fabulous beacon capper, but fragile and lacks firepower. I'm not good enough to really take advantage of it's lightning quickness, and it can't stand toe-to-toe with anything, so my stats suffer when it's in my hanger. Better pilots may find it to be amazing.
|
|
|
Post by frunobulax on Sept 8, 2017 12:24:58 GMT -5
I don't know what you've been smoking but the Kumiho is amazing. I'm getting quite good with it and have seen some lethal pilots with it. You got to maximize his strong points. Your comment about "Dash doesn't have that a big influence on speed." A back to back dash ability before the cool down? It is the fastest thing out there. Well, a famous politician once said "I don't care about what I was babbling yesterday" I might change my opionion given time, but right now I don't think the Kumiho is OP.
|
|
jeks
Destrier
Posts: 32
Karma: 15
|
Post by jeks on Sept 8, 2017 13:02:01 GMT -5
Fantastic assessment, and having used each of the bots for a short time FB server (with a very undeveloped meta) I would agree that the Haechi seems to be the most potentially overpowered of the three. It's firepower is just too good for its health, mobility and overall survivability. Not looking forward to its nerf, but probably needed I'm interested to see how strong the Bulg Scourge setup is. It puts the bot in a different role and difficult to evaluate position versus others. I'm still perfecting my skills on targeting and firing while turning shield, but it seems such a versatile and potentially very powerful bot. My Bulg and its Scourges are only level 9-10 and the meta on the FB server is quite underdeveloped, but it's already replaced my RDB and Butch.
|
|
|
Post by Kanshou on Sept 8, 2017 13:09:22 GMT -5
I feel like depending on the hangar you run, your opinion on whether or not the Korean bots are OP differs. If you run all Griffin setups, the Korean bots would feel OP when they dance around you and end you since you have no protection whatsoever. However, players who run shielded bots might have a different opinion when they fight against the dash.
In my dictionary, OP means its pretty much unstoppable. The dash in my opinion are pretty stoppable, it just depends on the bot you're running and the situation you're in.
|
|
|
Post by moses on Sept 8, 2017 14:28:36 GMT -5
Haechi is very much like a DB in how you play, cover till you have the resource to eliminate a red. Haechi in groups is similar to a horde of lance coming at you. The difference is Haechi is like a carnage in is venerability to plasma. This bot is not invincible-you have to choose your target well. Scourge does work well against dash especially out of orkan range. I would say these bad boys are not as OP as a maxed ancilot (taran or orkan version) is. My set up is lvl 11 bot and lvl 12 orks. One on One at knifer range they are formidable. If you are in say a tartan ancilot or a PDB, stay at 320 meters and the bot is toast. If you are in knifer distance, thunderorkan lance is gonna smoke a haechi. Its essentially like taking out a lance. Absolutely. All the dashes are great bots, top level, but not OP. the Wild West bots were mediocre so no one really cared, this time they introduced something meaningful. Just like when rhino or Brit bots came. I remember the first time I saw a rhino and how 'OP' they seemed to me then..
|
|
|
Post by Koalabear on Sept 8, 2017 14:35:57 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, I finally faced a red Bulg. I really, really wanted to go one on one with it, just to try it out. I was in my Rog. I managed to take half of it's life with almost no effort, before the tide of the battle forced me to retreat....too many reds spawning. I tried to keep visual on the Bulg, but an Ancilot toasted me. By the time I respawned in my Bulg, and got back to the general area, it was gone.
I did finally witness a dash from a 3rd POV. Usually I'M the one dashing, so I've always wondered what other people see. There wasn't much of a WOW factor. It zipped about 50m, and that's it.
|
|
|
Post by Team Alpha Strike on Sept 8, 2017 16:03:42 GMT -5
Yes, the Korean bots are "all that".
Even a 20% HP and 10% speed nerf would not change how superior these bots will be to the all the prior bots.
The inclusion of 2 separate Dashes and a Dash available at half the cooldown time (i.e. If your stated cooldown is 20 seconds and you only Dash once, the cooldown is actually only 10 seconds before your can have 2 Dashes available again) ensures that you'll never be really fully targetable bullets or rockets (heck, you'll escape a lot of Taran/Mag hits too when you Dash) in any 1-vs-1 situation. The Orkan Haechi is basically undefeatable against all knifers that don't carry Tarans/Mags/Scourge - I'll take a half dead Ork Haechi against any non-K bot knifer that isn't using plasma and beat you at knifer range 1-vs-1 all the time (you won't stand a change).
Pilots that say they are killing K Bots like normal bots are fighting inexperienced pilots - heck, I'm killing these Kbot left and right, but I can see that they aren't used to piloting those bots yet.
I've said this before, think about a Griffin - if Pix cut its HP to 135K and cut its jump distance to 50m, but gave it 2 jumps and the ability to jump again in 12.5 seconds if you didn't use the second jump (you'd be able to use that 2nd jump immediately if you needed it though - and then another 12.5 seconds would be added to the cooldown) ---- if you had such a Griffin, what setups would you really feel threatened against if you placed primarily Beacon Rush? This Griffin setup I just explained is basically what every K bot is. Two separate Dashes AND a 1st Dash cooldown that is 1/2 the stated total cooldown guarantees that you will have no worries from non-energy weapons (i don't care about missiles - they aren't a factor in Beacon Rush) --- but if the red is carrying energy weapon, you'll can car 2-3 of them also, so you are at least even (but did I mention that the KBots are superior corner shooters and that they carry the bulk of their firepower ABOVE their hitbox?).
I could go on, but could see spending money to get these Kbots, as even a big HP and Speed nerf WILL DO NOTHING to impact them, as their core strength is their ability to Dash (avoid getting hit) twice in a single combat melee. If I coined this game, I am 100% sure I'd spend at least $100 on the chance of getting one - they are and will be that good (unless they do the unthinkable and nerf the Dash ability to only 1 Dash - which would destroy the value of them completely).
|
|
|
Post by Kanshou on Sept 8, 2017 16:11:30 GMT -5
(i don't care about missiles - they aren't a factor in Beacon Rush) ). I agree with everything except this part. We are playing the same game right? Missiles aren't a factor?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 16:13:04 GMT -5
Once you face HEAT or some other top tier money spending clan drop in the start of the match with Haechis and Bulgasaris you may be starting to cry 'OP'.
|
|
|
Post by Kanshou on Sept 8, 2017 16:14:41 GMT -5
(i don't care about missiles - they aren't a factor in Beacon Rush) ). I agree with everything except this part. We are playing the same game right? Missiles aren't a factor? Shoot, just realized you meant Hydras and Spirals. I assumed rockets. Carry on.
|
|
|
Post by Team Alpha Strike on Sept 8, 2017 18:06:22 GMT -5
(i don't care about missiles - they aren't a factor in Beacon Rush) ). I agree with everything except this part. We are playing the same game right? Missiles aren't a factor? In Beacon Rush in Master/Champion level, if you show up with a Spydra Griffin, Quad Aphid, or anything whose main damage inflicting weapons are Missiles, then you are dead or you are holding back your team. These missile setups are empty meched as far winning/holding beacons and they do very little as far in the role of critical close support. You weren't confusing guided missiles with LOS rockets, where you?
|
|
|
Post by Kanshou on Sept 8, 2017 18:12:46 GMT -5
I agree with everything except this part. We are playing the same game right? Missiles aren't a factor? In Beacon Rush in Master/Champion level, if you show up with a Spydra Griffin, Quad Aphid, or anything whose main damage inflicting weapons are Missiles, then you are dead or you are holding back your team. These missile setups are empty meched as far winning/holding beacons and they do very little as far in the role of critical close support. You weren't confusing guided missiles with LOS rockets, where you? Already said it was a mistake bro. My bad. I assumed rockets. Look above.
|
|
b4you
Destrier
Posts: 112
Karma: 47
Platform: iOS
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
|
Post by b4you on Sept 8, 2017 20:07:42 GMT -5
The MK2 was OP on the test server and every form I filled out said something has to give. It's OP now live. It out 1v1s almost any bot in the field. I am putting in my Zeus Carnage as a counter. I think you will see Ancilots with Tarans instead of Orkans just for dealing with them. I would like to see a small Scourge buff as a counter to the MK2.
|
|
|
Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Sept 8, 2017 20:28:38 GMT -5
That damn light bot is over the top too fast. Played a match that duplicated one played in the beta recently where a light dash bot crossed Yama before all of the opposing team had even dropped into the match. It was among them when only three of the enemy was on the field. Imagine a pack of those things on every map.? I don't know if I'll even be playing the game much longer because of what I have observed thus far.
|
|
|
Post by thypoonhunter on Sept 8, 2017 20:48:33 GMT -5
1. Bulgasari is probably fine but even 40km speed + slow reload dash is too fast for a heavy durability bot, shield is awkward to use in a knife fight, fine for crossing open areas against plasma/kinetics. 2. Kumiho - Disgustingly OP, in my opinion the best of the three looking from a vacuum. It's crazy crazy fast, two orkans make it super dangerous. Often in Beacon Rush is can take center beacon by 200-300km vs Stalker/Jesse etc AND kill the first bot contesting the beacon (another light/rog) while getting away to reload. 3. Heachi - OP. The combination of speed, ancile AND three medium hardpoints is pretty silly. Take away a hardpoint or lower the ancile, or VASTLY reduce the cooldown on dash to Bulg levels. I agree. People who do not regard this as OP are too used to inflation. If you do not fix it downwards, the number of players will decrease less and more. Is that alright?
|
|
|
Post by thypoonhunter on Sept 9, 2017 3:29:00 GMT -5
- Reduce Kumiho's endurance by 22k, the durability of Heachi by 30k
:Why do you take the trouble to reduce your health, because Bulgasari does not have a clear weak point like weakness to Tulub / pin.
- Kumiho will not be locked on during a dash. Also, Heachi's built-in shield increases the durability by 10% and the basic speed by 5 km.
:Just by making it nerf, it is not good as a value for Black market limitation. Instead of lowering endurance, kumiho can avoid Zeus and Scouge guided weapons by not being locked on. You can take advantage of your own techniques. Since it is better to raise the basic speed than Dash is compatible with Ancile, I proposed to increase the basic speed. Of course, the durability of both was lowered, so more technique will be required.
- Please change the weapon slots of Kumiho and Heachi to light + medium, light + medium + medium respectively.
:Besides high durability and mobility, high attack power is not a good balance.
|
|
|
Post by linearblade on Sept 9, 2017 7:34:44 GMT -5
1. Bulgasari is probably fine but even 40km speed + slow reload dash is too fast for a heavy durability bot, shield is awkward to use in a knife fight, fine for crossing open areas against plasma/kinetics. 2. Kumiho - Disgustingly OP, in my opinion the best of the three looking from a vacuum. It's crazy crazy fast, two orkans make it super dangerous. Often in Beacon Rush is can take center beacon by 200-300km vs Stalker/Jesse etc AND kill the first bot contesting the beacon (another light/rog) while getting away to reload. 3. Heachi - OP. The combination of speed, ancile AND three medium hardpoints is pretty silly. Take away a hardpoint or lower the ancile, or VASTLY reduce the cooldown on dash to Bulg levels. ^^ this. I run All 3. Kumi is actually over the top strong. If you aren't hands down faster than everyone else you are dashing Wrong. You can reach beacons you shouldn't if the enemy team is not on their game. The reason I say it's over the top strong is not because it kills things (and it does) its because every game it gets use. It has value as opener and as ringer. You will cap beacons for certain. It's likely you will kill any Gareth / stalker interlopers ok center. Depending on how aggressive the enemy is you can potentially back victimize Griffins (pretty easy) or ancilots (harder, not hard) On maps like moon it's down right abusive, unless they are hydra spamming. It's worse map is yamantau, only because the slope and the obscene road runner speed of it causes the game to confuse it with jump recovery when descending. It dominates every other relevant light and medium bot excepting Patton. The rog has no real defense, because you can easily dash, and counter. When it jumps you just unload on landing. It will be empty as you dodged his shots already. Stalkers also are little more than annoyance. Your obviously running kumi with orkans. It's built for orkans. You just splash him to death. All light weapons excepting piñata have no ability to reliably hit you, and none can do enough reliable damage in his stealth time to inhibit your rog size health pool. You may continue to run pattons, solely for Death Star duty. The kumi can't outshine this. It's more a specialty fossil bot that exists solely for gekko abuse. Not bothering to discuss the rest as they are are obvious. On some maps lite Shenzhen you can seize center and then proceed to skate right up to any stupid sniper foolish enough to stand alone in center at base spawn. This happens a lot. You often trade 1:1 and take center advantage. A strong tempo boost. Now when they try to reclaim, they are forced into sacrifices, as your team has seized the initiative and positions accordingly OR have simply spawned into center already with ancilots. Kumiho ability to force center combat is super strong. Even in pub games most teammates see the advantage and act accordingly. This is the ultimate ability of kumi. Bulgasari I find this bot weak. It's gimpy side shield does nothing in 1v1. Further trying to angle and scourge doesn't work as well as you would hope. It often causes a break of target lock as you angle Wrong (fixable with practice ) or enemy breaks it seeing. Your movements. (Not as fixable) It's a beefy combatant, but without a frontal shield, it's basically a griffin+ As such it doesn't do great with knifer weapons, unless you r goal is trading hits, in which case it is obviously strong. I found the best setups are tulu. It's major weakness being eshields. Scourge is not great, and usually you just take more damage because good players don't sit around and let you abuse its range. In melee, orkans / tarans feel superior. I'm not sure but I think damage numbers are incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised if they add the shield to be frontal on this guy, or make it like a Galahad. It's only dangerous truly in certain 1v1 combats, otherwise there usually more than enough excess damage to kill it. (A select few fires just enough to kill a mech, usually it's over killed in the case of. Everything non taran) Maybe I'm too harsh on it, but orkans are common higher up, and it's special weapon takes time to unload and lock on. It's decent 1v1, but this should never happen except at end of March. So it's probably a good ringer. Haechi I run this with mk2 puns. It's a ridiculous shield stripper, and highly durable, as you can evade most ancilot / griffins with practice. I don't run orkans bcoz I don't have level 12 gear. I watch others do it tho, and it's a wrecking ball. This mech usually lasts a while on the field. It's only real weakness are ancilots. And I only say that because it's the only match up where you come away beat up if your using orkans. And he tarans. Any fight where you jump into his shield barrier will have same effect on you so any way you slice it your getting messed up. Despite this kumi is still best. Solely based on ability to force center combat. In combat however. If I was forced to play mono bots ,I would take a hanger full of haechi over any other mono- hangar. That's my experience running these mechs this event, against champion players. I'm also gonna say ancilots are not going extinct. You need them. I could see ancilot / haechi hangers in the meta. I doubt you would see haechi Griffin hangars. I also see Zeus fury being put into the mix more so now, haechi has no good defense against these. Bulgasari has some decent resistance, but not like it's better than a lance or Galahad. I view it more as the AU upgrade of the griffin. Which , let's face it is a incredible mech, especially considering it's AG only, so it's not a bad thing. Overall the only game changer is the kumi. Because it obsoletes every other medium and light bot. Excepting perhaps the Patton / doc /Jesse (maybe?) and because of its beacon exploiting qualities
|
|
jeks
Destrier
Posts: 32
Karma: 15
|
Post by jeks on Sept 9, 2017 9:03:21 GMT -5
linearblade Can you share more on your Bulg Scourge experience, what level are they both? I'm on the fence about it at the moment, frustrations being losing the lock when I turn and having to set it up all over again. Damage seems decent but not OP.
|
|
|
Post by linearblade on Sept 9, 2017 9:24:48 GMT -5
linearblade Can you share more on your Bulg Scourge experience, what level are they both? I'm on the fence about it at the moment, frustrations being losing the lock when I turn and having to set it up all over again. Damage seems decent but not OP. 9/9. I'm usually in champion games tho I'm ranked diamond 1. I'm not sure it's common or if it's because I have 70%+ win rate usually, or because I have a strong hangar. I find in this situation , standing still or holding a stream of fire is a great way to get hit with missiles from everywhere. And those weapons are all 10-12. Dash bots are currently number one target, your gonna get focus fired. Scourge requires time to do work. Unlike a ancilot, they don't possess a lot of defenses. Standing still will get you damaged, if not dead. Consecutive attacks will weaken you further. So there are few situations where I am able to fully discharge my weapon. I have a 9:9 Patton gekko. I regularly score 500-800k+ damage... JUST with the Patton. I know this because I have run several games without dying or even taking damage, and end up dominating the match. I can't even reliably break 600k, although almost all matches end up 400k, with my entire roster in these games. Excluding the Patton. It's because these players are good, and they are better armed and posses similar or better hanger comps. So. With all this in mind, I find the scourge mediocre. Also I don't see many hangars with this, although I see many hangars with several dash bots. They are downright common in fact. My experience is you can swing the shield trick with some practice, but many champion players know how to break the lock. And you also have to contend with your own mistakes. Finally you have to not make any mistakes and not be out maneuvered for several seconds while you discharge. A mistake costs you 3 second to lock on again. This tactic only really works at range, where it's weakest. It could work on close range too , but I would expect some serious breakage on locks. So I can't say how it is on even games... usually I stomp all evenly matched games. Few as there are. Otherwise I want weapons that are reliable. Honestly I slapped 3 puns on a haechi and it does more work. Others here have had similar experiences. Scourge isn't bad... but it's not great. I'd rank it as strong as a punisher with different uses. Let me sum it up. Scourge does several things well, but nothing very well. That's why it's not that great.
|
|
jeks
Destrier
Posts: 32
Karma: 15
|
Post by jeks on Sept 9, 2017 9:55:37 GMT -5
Super helpful, thanks!
Going through the iOS Legend leagues I'm also not seeing Scourge equipped often - Tarans and Orkans are more popular. May pause on upgrading them and see how the feedback cont Nudes coming in. My Bulg is 9 and Scourges 10.
|
|