JFSoul
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Post by JFSoul on May 8, 2020 9:25:10 GMT -5
I realize this topic was already addressed by @  ? a couple of months ago. I added a few comments and threads of my own, and a clanmate asked other clanmates who have max Ao Mings (in our Discord channel) recently how to counter them. Here is a summary of the discussion with some direct quotes and some lightly edited by me to help with the flow which I found insightful. Some of them are obvious, but I still think it's good to mention them. If it's in quotes I cut and pasted it directly. Credit to Ogre from the forum, and Summoning, Nakamori, and Brain Damage from my clan: Here is the combined thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/walkingwarrobots/comments/g6nmul/countering_max_plasma_ao_mings Here are other references: As reference, Close Range = 350m or less; Medium Range = 600m or less; Long Range = 1100m or less - If you are in your bots, take cover and do corner shooting to distract them or disrupt their flight path; come out of cover and unload when they are engaging another target (personal experience: Ao Ming pilots are human, and they may get annoyed by the "mosquito" bothering them, and spend time trying to slowly hunt you down which gives your teammates a chance to take a beacon or do damage)
- Maxed Ao Ming pilots are "scared" primarily by another max Ao Ming, Arthur, Ember / Glacier Ao Juns, any other high firepower bot with Cryo
- "When I see rotating Leeches or Phantoms, I already know their strategy and after few seconds I get them by flying over etc."
- Three or more Ao Juns will significantly hurt a Titan
- "If you put you Leech in harms way... even with ability activated.. it will go down quickly and not do ton of dmg to the person you are Leeching. Use cover & Phase Shift, but ability won’t help you in Leech."
- "If possible spawn an Author close but not under a Ming. They can hit over your shield if you are to close....a couple Au Juns do good Damage with Avengers, Embers, Glaciers. But must plan on a good landing spot. 3 Juns won’t take down my Ming (Lvl 126 w/ 2 max Armor mods) on first run alone. If an Author is beating me up with machine guns at same time, my health drops much quicker... especially if Jun lights me up with Glaciers."
- "2 Enemy Mings in the air will dictate my distance from the fight. I’ve seen this with other experienced pilots of Mings too. They will wait until their weapons are charge and health restored before engaging another high level Ming at About 590meterz and then retreat to 625 or so to reload weapons."
- If a Ming is engaged with another Ming look for the weapons to be in reload (or burst is done)...it is more vulnerable.
- Invest in more MR and LR weapons; the more mechs in our hangars that have 600m+ range, the less advantage a plasma AM is going to have and the less impact they will have against your team.
- Another issue here is that while closing distance on the AM is one major counter against it, if that player's team has bots in control or protecting the Ao Mings, the enemy team can't get at them. I experienced this when facing WE R (u/wunhundread clan). It was a full squad on squad battle. After they regained a 3:2 beacon advantage they launched 3x max Ao Mings, 2x Nithtingales, and a Ravana. It was excellent coordination and they beat us handily.
- "Kinetic builds such as Tempest and Molot will do pretty good at suppressing fire against the plasma AM. At max range (800m), although these guns can hit AM, they will only slowly whittle at it, then they can self-heal. The optimal range of these kinetics is 400-500m to really do more severe damage. So personally, I myself would only choose them if I was either intending to merely play a suppression role, or mounting these weapons on something like a Bulwark. Pulsars, Wasps, Hussar Marquess, and LR energy or kinetic cannons will be more devastating than Tempests. Weapons that allow you to close to 600m, hit and retreat will do pretty well but you risk being hit, so timing and positioning will be important to reduce exposure. I would say, based on my experience, is the best mech for Pulsars, Wasps, and Hussars against plasma AM is Spectre because AM can't hit a stealth bot. Marquess Pursuer maybe. And definitely Dragoon Bulwark and Dragoon Ao Jun! Imo there are two particular things that will work best as anti-plasma AM: Weapons that can hit hard from beyond 600m; A Plasma Arthur"
Other thoughts / comments? |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 8, 2020 9:36:27 GMT -5
My Tempest Fury, Loki, Viper Lance, and Sting+Wasp Raven approve of this message. EDIT: I built a TDM hangar that I sometimes drop in Dom if it's on YAM or Canyon or SF that is built almost solely around dealing with Mings:  It works pretty damned well against all but the maxed variety. |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 9:44:46 GMT -5
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Post by Overlordship on May 8, 2020 9:46:50 GMT -5
???48interesting hangar. How do you like that Rayker build? I have one collecting dust and have some leveled Gekko and a Flux I can throw on it.
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JFSoul
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Posts: 87
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Post by JFSoul on May 8, 2020 9:47:01 GMT -5
I saw that. You are very skilled, so folks should keep that in mind. I really like the "low-budget" option in the Lancelot. Thanks for sharing. |
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Post by Rollo Tomasi on May 8, 2020 10:00:26 GMT -5
For long maps Tempest Falcon w Basil and Shot Grouping and Thermonuclear Reactor will ground most Mings (usually NOT experienced player w maxed AM though). Fangs out at 650 or so, stay on target and jump retreat as required. Rinse repeat.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 8, 2020 10:06:52 GMT -5
???48interesting hangar. How do you like that Rayker build? I have one collecting dust and have some leveled Gekko and a Flux I can throw on it. Oh it's not perfect... but even at the levels it is it's more than a mosquito bite for most bots. The great thing is that with Rayker you aren't just SoL if they get close. You have agility, speed, and suppression, plus Lockdown Ammo, to aid you in either killing them or getting TF out of Dodge. I did it as a joke/troll bot to find a way to play my Rayker again while they fixed the bugs and ended up keeping it since it worked so well. |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:22:33 GMT -5
I saw that. You are very skilled, so folks should keep that in mind. I really like the "low-budget" option in the Lancelot. Thanks for sharing. You might thinking I’m joking, but I am not. I really do think Lancelots are the hands down best non Titan answer to mings. the fact that it’s low budget (and to be frank, it’s not low budget really, at 130m to max) is a bonus. Most of the people who have trouble with mings are those who are not utilising expensive Titan solutions. with ghost, it’s fast, and dreadfully so. There is no other tank who can put out a similar speed, With that kind of Armor to stop a laser Ming. ao mings are big beefy targets which can ignore gimmick bots. Lancelots have no gimmicks to speak of, except for a frontal shield and godlike weapon hardpoint placements. so while gimmick bots wait in cover for the gimmick powers to cool down the lance can find a covered position and bring the pain. He can also hunt them down and finish the job. as we know pixonic brings the headsmans axe to all gimmicks, it’s best to utilise a robot whose gimmick is that it’s “meta stable” Ao Juns are still due for more nerfs. And if the titans get Quantum Radar, well then I guarantee you’ll be thankful you got yourself a trusty steed named chubbs. just my two cents. A footnote: should you want a more modern tank, you might consider a bulgisari. It would take some practic, and it’s not as fast, so hunting it could prove difficult, but you would get 3 medium wasp slots and an extra module slot. That’s a lot of fortification to its freakishly strong Pauldron of invincibility ... you could certainly ward them off. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 10:24:24 GMT -5
Nobody mentions this much, but with Titans getting stronger day by day, and those with spenders maxing, I have been running a few builds with Death Mark....I need all the help I can get, and ice rockets plus death mark is pretty nasty.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 10:27:04 GMT -5
I saw that. You are very skilled, so folks should keep that in mind. I really like the "low-budget" option in the Lancelot. Thanks for sharing. You might thinking I’m joking, but I am not. I really do think Lancelots are the hands down best non Titan answer to mings. the fact that it’s low budget (and to be frank, it’s not low budget really, at 130m to max) is a bonus. Most of the people who have trouble with mings are those who are not utilising expensive Titan solutions. with ghost, it’s fast, and dreadfully so. There is no other tank who can put out a similar speed, With that kind of Armor to stop a laser Ming. ao mings are big beefy targets which can ignore gimmick bots. Lancelots have no gimmicks to speak of, except for a frontal shield and godlike weapon hardpoint placements. so while gimmick bots wait in cover for the gimmick powers to cool down the lance can find a covered position and bring the pain. He can also hunt them down and finish the job. as we know pixonic brings the headsmans axe to all gimmicks, it’s best to utilise a robot whose gimmick is that it’s “meta stable” Ao Juns are still due for more nerfs. And if the titans get Quantum Radar, well then I guarantee you’ll be thankful you got yourself a trusty steed named chubbs. just my two cents. A footnote: should you want a more modern tank, you might consider a bulgisari. It would take some practic, and it’s not as fast, so hunting it could prove difficult, but you would get 3 medium wasp slots and an extra module slot. That’s a lot of fortification to its freakishly strong Pauldron of invincibility ... you could certainly ward them off. But, is Viper/Wasp the only way to kill Mings? You’ve told me not to go with Pulsar....any other options which work? |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 8, 2020 10:27:22 GMT -5
I saw that. You are very skilled, so folks should keep that in mind. I really like the "low-budget" option in the Lancelot. Thanks for sharing. as we know pixonic brings the headsmans axe to all gimmicks, it’s best to utilise a robot whose gimmick is that it’s “meta stable” SNIP Very apt description for Lancey-Poo. I said it in another thread, I would drop almost anything else from my "main" hangar before getting rid of that bot. |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:28:20 GMT -5
Nobody mentions this much, but with Titans getting stronger day by day, and those with spenders maxing, I have been running a few builds with Death Mark....I need all the help I can get, and ice rockets plus death mark is pretty nasty. I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on May 8, 2020 10:29:55 GMT -5
You might thinking I’m joking, but I am not. I really do think Lancelots are the hands down best non Titan answer to mings. the fact that it’s low budget (and to be frank, it’s not low budget really, at 130m to max) is a bonus. Most of the people who have trouble with mings are those who are not utilising expensive Titan solutions. with ghost, it’s fast, and dreadfully so. There is no other tank who can put out a similar speed, With that kind of Armor to stop a laser Ming. ao mings are big beefy targets which can ignore gimmick bots. Lancelots have no gimmicks to speak of, except for a frontal shield and godlike weapon hardpoint placements. so while gimmick bots wait in cover for the gimmick powers to cool down the lance can find a covered position and bring the pain. He can also hunt them down and finish the job. as we know pixonic brings the headsmans axe to all gimmicks, it’s best to utilise a robot whose gimmick is that it’s “meta stable” Ao Juns are still due for more nerfs. And if the titans get Quantum Radar, well then I guarantee you’ll be thankful you got yourself a trusty steed named chubbs. just my two cents. A footnote: should you want a more modern tank, you might consider a bulgisari. It would take some practic, and it’s not as fast, so hunting it could prove difficult, but you would get 3 medium wasp slots and an extra module slot. That’s a lot of fortification to its freakishly strong Pauldron of invincibility ... you could certainly ward them off. But, is Viper/Wasp the only way to kill Mings? You’ve told me not to go with Pulsar....any other options which work? I use Viper / Scourge on mine... but that build is not just for Mings. It works well enough against them, though. I like that build as an all 'rounder. I can handle almost any range of threat from 500m down. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 10:30:06 GMT -5
Nobody mentions this much, but with Titans getting stronger day by day, and those with spenders maxing, I have been running a few builds with Death Mark....I need all the help I can get, and ice rockets plus death mark is pretty nasty. I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. Try what I use...Glacier Cryo DM Lance.....you’ll like it! |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 10:31:24 GMT -5
But, is Viper/Wasp the only way to kill Mings? You’ve told me not to go with Pulsar....any other options which work? I use Viper / Scourge on mine... but that build is not just for Mings. It works well enough against them, though. I like that build as an all 'rounder. I can handle almost any range of threat from 500m down. Nice....I have so many Pulsars, and only 1 Scorge and zero Wasps....so, I’m wanting to not start brand new again...... |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:35:04 GMT -5
You might thinking Iâm joking, but I am not. I really do think Lancelots are the hands down best non Titan answer to mings. Snip But, is Viper/Wasp the only way to kill Mings? Youâve told me not to go with Pulsar....any other options which work? my viper cryo lance gets it done if you let them 3 cap you for a speed bonus. ive had luck with the tyr being a hero charger, but heâs just a 「dookie」ty lance that can heal. Heâs slower too. Light weapons pop off more, and his shield is weaker. that said , I have been able to score a lock with shredders and land hits with cryo. the tyr is also small, he hides easier. glories seem to be BETTER post nerf. They do insane damage. Getting anything up close to it can be a challenge, but provided you can, they bring the hurt too. Use shot grouping. Bring two of them |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:36:38 GMT -5
I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. Try what I use...Glacier Cryo DM Lance.....you’ll like it! I originally went with this, but I often find my self in run and gun situations, so I prefer to have a dps cannon somewhere mounted on my units. |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:39:35 GMT -5
SNIPas we know pixonic brings the headsmans axe to all gimmicks, it’s best to utilise a robot whose gimmick is that it’s “meta stable” SNIP Very apt description for Lancey-Poo. I said it in another thread, I would drop almost anything else from my "main" hangar before getting rid of that bot. Yea, ghost made the lance almost all he can be. So fricken good. Give legacy 3 slots and the lance would be a beast death machine. Give me a legendary pilot, who gives me ghost and boosters, and I’d run 5. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 10:41:46 GMT -5
Nobody mentions this much, but with Titans getting stronger day by day, and those with spenders maxing, I have been running a few builds with Death Mark....I need all the help I can get, and ice rockets plus death mark is pretty nasty. I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. Don’t forget to level up them there Fortifiers! Gonna need um! |
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Post by linearblade on May 8, 2020 10:54:07 GMT -5
I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. Don’t forget to level up them there Fortifiers! Gonna need um! Back to your pulsar question, I do think they would work, they would put out a bit more cycle dps than cryo, but you had better have a viper up top, I think a lot of the utility is diminished, simply due to them being able to land at will, but that’s often times a victory anyhow. You certainly piss them off, that’s for sure. |
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Post by vin5240 on May 8, 2020 14:06:33 GMT -5
As a new plasma ao ming user, honestly the biggest headache for me are Arthurs. Especially if there is more than one. It takes a lot of shots to down that shield and they can take a strategic position behind cover where only their weapons show. Really prevents me from pushing forward.
Next biggest threat for me is other enemy plasma ao mings. I almost always go for them first because knowing that I can wipe out a ton of reds, they can do the same to blues so I always try to kill it if I can to save as many teammates as possible. It's a win for me even if we both go down. The reason I ended up building a plasma ao ming was because I was tired of getting steam rolled by enemy team just because they had a plasma ao ming and we didn't.
3rd biggest threat for me are probably maxed glacier ao juns. I always drop when they come in. That damage is no joke even with resistance. All other ao juns I usually ignore them until they drop. Ppl using lockdown ammo or pulsars don't annoy me and neither do people firing behind cover using ares. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My next target would be nightingales. It's a problem when I'm fighting another titan and they all up in there going pew...pew...pew...
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JFSoul
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Post by JFSoul on May 8, 2020 15:01:11 GMT -5
As a new plasma ao ming user, honestly the biggest headache for me are Arthurs. Especially if there is more than one. It takes a lot of shots to down that shield and they can take a strategic position behind cover where only their weapons show. Really prevents me from pushing forward. Next biggest threat for me is other enemy plasma ao mings. I almost always go for them first because knowing that I can wipe out a ton of reds, they can do the same to blues so I always try to kill it if I can to save as many teammates as possible. It's a win for me even if we both go down. The reason I ended up building a plasma ao ming was because I was tired of getting steam rolled by enemy team just because they had a plasma ao ming and we didn't. 3rd biggest threat for me are probably maxed glacier ao juns. I always drop when they come in. That damage is no joke even with resistance. All other ao juns I usually ignore them until they drop. Ppl using lockdown ammo or pulsars don't annoy me and neither do people firing behind cover using ares. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My next target would be nightingales. It's a problem when I'm fighting another titan and they all up in there going pew...pew...pew... Very good perspective. Thank you for sharing |
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Post by balrog89 on May 9, 2020 0:22:56 GMT -5
- Another issue here is that while closing distance on the AM is one major counter against it, if that player's team has bots in control or protecting the Ao Mings, the enemy team can't get at them. I experienced this when facing WE R (u/wunhundread clan). It was a full squad on squad battle. After they regained a 3:2 beacon advantage they launched 3x max Ao Mings, 2x Nithtingales, and a Ravana. It was excellent coordination and they beat us handily.
Other thoughts / comments? You guys in A1 got a shout out here. |
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Post by linearblade on May 9, 2020 0:34:45 GMT -5
As a new plasma ao ming user, honestly the biggest headache for me are Arthurs. Especially if there is more than one. It takes a lot of shots to down that shield and they can take a strategic position behind cover where only their weapons show. Really prevents me from pushing forward. Next biggest threat for me is other enemy plasma ao mings. I almost always go for them first because knowing that I can wipe out a ton of reds, they can do the same to blues so I always try to kill it if I can to save as many teammates as possible. It's a win for me even if we both go down. The reason I ended up building a plasma ao ming was because I was tired of getting steam rolled by enemy team just because they had a plasma ao ming and we didn't. 3rd biggest threat for me are probably maxed glacier ao juns. I always drop when they come in. That damage is no joke even with resistance. All other ao juns I usually ignore them until they drop. Ppl using lockdown ammo or pulsars don't annoy me and neither do people firing behind cover using ares. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My next target would be nightingales. It's a problem when I'm fighting another titan and they all up in there going pew...pew...pew... @reroll There you go. As my original suspicions confirmed. Pulsar may not be sufficiently annoying. Although on a lance, you will probably get a lot more firepower with your shield. vin5240 who is usually firing at you with pulsars? Spectre peakaboo? |
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Post by kamikazejohnson on May 9, 2020 1:00:11 GMT -5
Nobody mentions this much, but with Titans getting stronger day by day, and those with spenders maxing, I have been running a few builds with Death Mark....I need all the help I can get, and ice rockets plus death mark is pretty nasty. I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. I have a Glacier/Igniter Strider with Death Mark. Igniters only at level 9, but even in a straight suicide charge, it can put a serious dent in a Ming. So I concur that Glacier + DM can hurt. Consider also Glacier/Ember, Glacier/Calamity, or Glacier/Viper on Bulwark. You only need 1 Glacier to fill the Chill Meter. |
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Post by linearblade on May 9, 2020 1:10:52 GMT -5
I don’t have one levelled yet, but I was toying with the idea of a death marking glacier bulwark. It could potentially get to the beast, and slay it, albeit with some very expensive equipment. I have a Glacier/Igniter Strider with Death Mark. Igniters only at level 9, but even in a straight suicide charge, it can put a serious dent in a Ming. So I concur that Glacier + DM can hurt. Consider also Glacier/Ember, Glacier/Calamity, or Glacier/Viper on Bulwark. You only need 1 Glacier to fill the Chill Meter. I had a franken raijin with glory / glacier /mark. Worked prior to lockdown change. I might rebuild it with a viper and give it a whirl. Still useless tho due to Ao Juns |
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dis
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Post by dis on May 9, 2020 1:30:58 GMT -5
Was trying a blitz sting which worked OK but if get caught by the ming then bot goes boom very quickly.
Pulled an ivory ravana and Legendary Pilot from creates and have been trying with 3 wasps. Has been Woking better than I expected generally but also on mings. Able to fire then escape to safety without getting hit..... Sometimes ?. Down side of wasps to stings is cost of upgrading.
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Post by Oliver Kloesov on May 9, 2020 7:38:22 GMT -5
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Post by RightOn on May 9, 2020 7:39:25 GMT -5
Suppression, Lockdown, Arthur, Tempests
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Post by vin5240 on May 9, 2020 7:50:30 GMT -5
As a new plasma ao ming user, honestly the biggest headache for me are Arthurs. Especially if there is more than one. It takes a lot of shots to down that shield and they can take a strategic position behind cover where only their weapons show. Really prevents me from pushing forward. Next biggest threat for me is other enemy plasma ao mings. I almost always go for them first because knowing that I can wipe out a ton of reds, they can do the same to blues so I always try to kill it if I can to save as many teammates as possible. It's a win for me even if we both go down. The reason I ended up building a plasma ao ming was because I was tired of getting steam rolled by enemy team just because they had a plasma ao ming and we didn't. 3rd biggest threat for me are probably maxed glacier ao juns. I always drop when they come in. That damage is no joke even with resistance. All other ao juns I usually ignore them until they drop. Ppl using lockdown ammo or pulsars don't annoy me and neither do people firing behind cover using ares. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My next target would be nightingales. It's a problem when I'm fighting another titan and they all up in there going pew...pew...pew... @reroll There you go. As my original suspicions confirmed. Pulsar may not be sufficiently annoying. Although on a lance, you will probably get a lot more firepower with your shield. vin5240 who is usually firing at you with pulsars? Spectre peakaboo? Is actually usually ares or leech with pulsars. the spectres i see usually run tulums or vortex. I guess the only time pulsars may be annoying is if I'm trying to out range a machine gunner ao ming and I get lockdown and put in range of those guns. My squad used to do the same for when I ran machine guns still. Lockdown plasma ao ming, I fly in and take it down. |
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? a couple of months ago. I added a few comments and threads of my own, and a clanmate asked other clanmates who have max Ao Mings (in our Discord channel) recently how to counter them. Here is a summary of the discussion with some direct quotes and some lightly edited by me to help with the flow which I found insightful. Some of them are obvious, but I still think it's good to mention them. If it's in quotes I cut and pasted it directly. Credit to Ogre from the forum, and Summoning, Nakamori, and Brain Damage from my clan:
