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Post by ludicrous on Mar 10, 2017 23:13:43 GMT -5
People wouldn't leave(ditch, exploit, cheat, whatever you want to label it today) as much if they didn't feel like pixonic is ditching, cheating and exploiting them like any corporation would and they are getting back at them. Thanks for helping those corporations against the little people btw. This just reminded me about a game called Star Wars Galaxies. If any of you have played it, you'll know what I'm talking about. There are some similarities between that game and this one. With SWG, AFK players were a real problem. People would log in, set their character on a repeating macro and leave it running all day long while the player went to school or work or whatever. The developers and the other players were often frustrated by the sheer amount of afk'ers. The devs wrote in certain countermeasures that managed to disrupt a few temporarily, but never faced the fact that their game was faulty from the beginning. If they had, they might have removed macros altogether or made their game more interesting than its title. Well they did rewrite the game and screwed the whole player base in the process. SWG died a slow agonizing death. Pixonic has rewritten the core program of this game, fundamentally altering how it is played, 2 years after it's been operating. I'm only a couple months old here, but wow! This ship is gonna crash if they don't put it back on course. Tanking matches is not the problem. Tanking matches is a symptom of a more serious issue. Players are just trying to find games/matches they can reasonably compete/win in. This is human nature. Let's not penalize the player. Tanking was not an issue prior to the matchmaking rewrite.
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Mar 10, 2017 23:29:14 GMT -5
Tanking matches is not the problem. Tanking matches is a symptom of a more serious issue. Players are just trying to find games/matches they can reasonably compete/win in. This is human nature. Let's not penalize the player. Tanking was not an issue prior to the matchmaking rewrite. Right. Before the rewrite, clubbing was. Try to compete and/or win against full Gep hangars with just some lights and meds... Very reasonable.
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Post by ludicrous on Mar 10, 2017 23:55:07 GMT -5
Tanking matches is not the problem. Tanking matches is a symptom of a more serious issue. Players are just trying to find games/matches they can reasonably compete/win in. This is human nature. Let's not penalize the player. Tanking was not an issue prior to the matchmaking rewrite. Right. Before the rewrite, clubbing was. Try to compete and/or win against full Gep hangars with just some lights and meds... Very reasonable. Yes, I remember. I was on the receiving end of that stick. I bought a gepard and 3 magnums just in time to see it become obsolete. All pixonic did was trade one problem for another. Unforeseen to be sure, but still a problem. So how do we fix it without negatively effecting the gameplay? Player levels should count for something. So far, they haven't. Seal clubbing would stop if players were prevented from competing against lower level players +/-2 levels. Matches could still be based by the active hangar, within the player's level range. Seal clubbing resolved. I personally like the idea of the Leagues, but not basing the matchmaker on it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 1:25:45 GMT -5
Man this sucks..I worked up to bronze & was working up to the next level. I was trying to setup my pc to run the game but couldn't get my controls to work right..so I had to immediately exit out of the game so I wasn't just standing there several times trying to make it work. Then I loose a ton of points & back in private lueage. crap..
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Post by barbzilla on Mar 11, 2017 9:59:46 GMT -5
People wouldn't leave(ditch, exploit, cheat, whatever you want to label it today) as much if they didn't feel like pixonic is ditching, cheating and exploiting them like any corporation would and they are getting back at them. Thanks for helping those corporations against the little people btw. This just reminded me about a game called Star Wars Galaxies. If any of you have played it, you'll know what I'm talking about. There are some similarities between that game and this one. With SWG, AFK players were a real problem. People would log in, set their character on a repeating macro and leave it running all day long while the player went to school or work or whatever. The developers and the other players were often frustrated by the sheer amount of afk'ers. The devs wrote in certain countermeasures that managed to disrupt a few temporarily, but never faced the fact that their game was faulty from the beginning. If they had, they might have removed macros altogether or made their game more interesting than its title. Well they did rewrite the game and screwed the whole player base in the process. SWG died a slow agonizing death. Pixonic has rewritten the core program of this game, fundamentally altering how it is played, 2 years after it's been operating. I'm only a couple months old here, but wow! This ship is gonna crash if they don't put it back on course. Tanking matches is not the problem. Tanking matches is a symptom of a more serious issue. Players are just trying to find games/matches they can reasonably compete/win in. This is human nature. Let's not penalize the player. Tanking was not an issue prior to the matchmaking rewrite. I was a loyal SWG player from the start until CU2 dropped (I didn't care much for CU1 either, but it didn't completely change the core mechanics, classes, and almost everything else about the game. all it did was give a number to something that was already there, but then put a restriction on some items based on that number that screwed over my crafter friends), that said this is a completely different scenario. SWG literally changed the very core mechanics of the game with CU2 (aka the SWG killer). They added a class system where you picked your class and leveled it up traditionally rather than having skills and specialties allowing you to build your own class. They changed the very base mechanics of combat as well as skill interaction. SWG literally changed everything except for the base worlds, the horrific tragedy known as the Jump to Lightspeed flight expansion, the names of most items, and the NPC's (quests technically changed, but not very much, it was just a modification to how experience was doled out as well as putting a system in to check the requester's level to determine eligibility). War Robots has changed the Match Making and the Rewards systems. While I admit these are very critical systems to the game, this is not rewriting the entire design of the game because you don't have the original development team around anymore that knew what they were doing in relation to the previous systems. On top of that, saying that Tanking is just a symptom of a larger issue is just false. I agree that the match making is stupidly frustrating when you are forced into lopsided battle after lopsided battle, and I also know (from experience as I am one of said players) that many players were placed into tiers way higher than their hanger's were equipped for based off of the very limited placement matches. What I don't agree with or acknowledge as a legitimate practice or form of rebellion is that knowingly taking a system that is already horribly flawed and causing players grief and then manipulating that system to give yourself an advantage by causing even more grief and lopsided matches. You are literally making the very problem you claim to be rebelling against WORSE! It makes absolutely no logical sense, what I do think makes sense is that most of these tankers are instead motivated by a combination of Greed and Impatience to cheat and harm the system in place while further adding to a problem that is causing issues and disquiet among the players just trying to play the game in order to enhance their resources allowing them to further enhance their hanger and pushing the problem even further into the unbearable zone. Now I am sure their have been a few players who just went ahead and tanked their stats one time to get their bots into matches where they were on equal footing or whatever, but with match making having been out for so long, and the leagues not much less, I feel comfortable that the majority of players that needed or wanted to do this have already done so, and if they are moving up the leagues naturally while playing, then that is actually the match making system working properly because you are winning significantly more than you are losing indicating that either your bots or your skill out pace the league you are leaving, so if you are intentionally tanking your way back down just because it is easier... well that goes back to the whole greed/impatience issue again. People really need to think about the consequences of their actions and the how it affects others. Especially in a social video game since if the tankers make the match making that much more unbearable while also causing moral loss due to knowing that their just isn't anything that 4/6 4 bot hanger can do against that 10/12 5 bot hanger that keeps dropping down into bronze and bullying said players around (Note: This is just one of the more egregious examples I have seen, and that was an entire squad of players on the same clan in bots from 9/12 to 12/12 all in bronze 900s while I was on my current F2P account that I am trying to make a youtube series on to show players how to better navigate and deal with the current matchmaking and gold gain systems). Those players will leave and never return, and some of those players would have spent money on the game at some point had Tankers not decided to ruin an otherwise poor but bearable situation the struggling players are in. That money would have gone to paying the employees and further developing the game that you are rebelling against by ruining. Now their haven't been any major content patches in a while, online players are at all time lows during peak hours and the devs might have been able to do something about it if they only had the money to add some content and fix some system issues, but instead have to start shutting down servers to conserve costs. Eventually those servers get moved to other game's and other departments and now even if the devs manage to put out a patch that entices players to come back, they literally can't since they don't have the server capacity for it. Now, I know I have been way way over stating the effects one person can have on the game as well as how quickly it can cause the death of a game, but it really is not as overstated as you likely think. The Tanking issue is not a small fraction of players who have been put into the wrong hanger tiers or leagues, it is a massive issue. Over the last 80 games I have played between my two accounts (one in Silver1 and one in bronze1) I have found an average hanger level of 6/8 in silver (if I exclude the obviously misplaced hangers with 12/12s 11/12s), and on average their are 3.6 players in every game that have hangers that are wildly higher than the average. Now I know that not every one of those players are tankers, but I guarantee you that most of them are. That is literally 30% of the population in the server. Now on top of that, I found an average of 1.1 players either leaving the match or doing significantly less than their hanger is capable of (I.E. a hanger of 9/11 brawlers with 1 artillery but only do 15k damage). Between the two averages, that is almost 50% of the players in Silver/Bronze having a massive effect on the result of games through their own manipulations rather than the skills they possess. How many of the players in 6/8 4 bot hangers are going to consistently just stick around for that kind of abuse? Not very many, since I am now being matched with players from as low as bronze 2 and as high as gold 1 on my Silver 1 hanger. While I don't know how Match Making is decided, I am certain that leagues do play a factor in deciding who plays together, and if the gap is that large that means their aren't enough players close to your league/tier to match you with for a game active at the moment. Tankers are a serious issue and need to be addressed. I do not mean to say that Pixonic doesn't hold some responsibility for creating the systems that both allow for it as well as entice players to it, because they are and they should take measures to resolve the issues (which they are in fact trying to do as evidenced by this very topic in the forum), but the players trying to tell me that Tanking is perfectly acceptable because Pixonic hasn't stopped it yet, or because they think they are entitled to more rewards than they are receiving or more victories than they are getting, or whatever the justification they try to use, are causing even more issues and making an already delicate and dangerous situation even worse and risking the very game they are manipulating in order to more enjoy their play time. How is this okay or a righteous rebellion? Please tell me how ruining other player's experiences, destroying potential income for game development, and hampering the developer's attempts to actually fix the very issues you are complaining about. Causing the devs to have to stop working on matchmaking fine tuning and instead add new code to the game to prevent these players from further infecting and degrading the game's playerbase. How would you go about fixing the match making if the placements are constantly bypassed by people wanting an easier time in the game or more gold per battle? It just doesn't work because if 40% of the players in a match are either afk/tanking/leaving/or significantly higher hanger quality/power than what the system is trying to place them at. These tankers are quite literally taking any potentially useful information that could help the match making not feel like a gauntlet of loathing and destroying it because you don't want to wait for the developers to use the information to fix the system you are complaining about.
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Post by ludicrous on Mar 11, 2017 12:10:54 GMT -5
 saying that Tanking is just a symptom of a larger issue is just false. What I don't agree with or acknowledge as a legitimate practice or form of rebellion is that knowingly taking a system that is ALREADY HORRIBLY FLAWED (LARGER ISSUE) and causing players grief and then manipulating that system to give yourself an advantage (HUMAN NATURE. This is how people win in any battle throughout history. We look for the weakest link, the loophole, the 「racist word」 in the armor, and we exploit it.) by causing even more grief and lopsided matches.  You are literally making the very problem you claim to be rebelling against WORSE!  It makes absolutely no logical sense, what I do think makes sense is that most of these tankers are instead motivated by a combination of Greed and Impatience to cheat and harm the system in place (again, its human nature to test every system and exploit the weakness, and its always motivated by greed or lust for more power or just an innocent desire to play the game we enjoy.) while further adding to a problem that is causing issues and disquiet among the players just trying to play the game in order to enhance their resources allowing them to further enhance their hanger and pushing the problem even further into the unbearable zone.  Now their haven't been any major content patches in a while, online players are at all time lows during peak hours and the devs might have been able to do something about it if they only had the money to add some content and fix some system issues, but instead have to start shutting down servers to conserve costs.  (Another great example of evidence of a larger issue.) Ok let me sum it up for you. Players are taking advantage of a broken game to achieve personal gains. Other players are just trying to play the game as it should be played but are facing overwhelming odds quite often. Players running as a squad are faced with the highest level opponents based solely on the most advanced squad mate's progress, making it totally not fun for any squad members not on equal footing. Squad running is being abandoned in favor of solo play for this reason. Many other players are just up and quitting the game altogether. You're going to tell me that tankers are the problem?! Larger issue is false?! Wake up dude! Star Wars Galaxies' similarities are all over this. You said you left after the second combat upgrade came out. I was there from launch to the closing of the servers. You missed the NGE. I also have spent a long time among the SWGemu community. While War Robots isn't as grandiose as SWG was, it's still suffering from a self inflicted wound. This matchmaker system defines how this game operates. Without it, there is no War Robots. That's the game. Everything else interacts with that system. To change it so drastically 2 years after launch is to create a different gaming experience, as evidenced above. Pixonic is not the bad guy here. I'm not pointing out bad guys. They are just game developers trying to improve the game. This matchmaker update is a flaw in game design. Developers cannot change a foundational component in big ways after it's been in service for so long, especially these days, with so many other free video games readily available. I was just looking for a game when I found this one and will find the game of the month very easily.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 14:22:15 GMT -5
Tanking isn't the problem, it's the matchmaking. This matchmaker isn't really to improve the game it's more to increase income like all business.
Forcing everyone to upgrade to max bots and weapons basically pay to win. But Pix left out most of the fun in this MM and balanced more heavily towards $ in the "fun"-----|--"$" spectrum.
Most people here now know it's not even that fun when there's only few bots and weapons you can use, meta or whatever they call it. But I'm having more fun tanking and be able to use all bots/weapons to a level I feel fitting.
Also the way rating points is distributed evenly in squading with clan also makes it's pointless, better to solo for league rating points. Unless it's clan vs clan battle, even then for VS mode Pix makes difficult.
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Post by ludicrous on Mar 11, 2017 15:13:38 GMT -5
Case in point on how Pixonic should handle this:
I took a photo of it but this chat won't let me put it here. So if you would open your App Store / Google Store and look up MARVEL Contest of Champions. They released an update last week which tweaked some core mechanics of the game. Well, just yesterday they released another update undoing the tweaks based on player feedback. Rather than push a broken game, they restored the previous unbroken version and will look more closely at the desired results they would like to achieve without harming their player base.
Well done, KABAM!!
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Mar 11, 2017 17:17:57 GMT -5
Man this sucks..I worked up to bronze & was working up to the next level. I was trying to setup my pc to run the game but couldn't get my controls to work right..so I had to immediately exit out of the game so I wasn't just standing there several times trying to make it work. Then I loose a ton of points & back in private lueage. crap.. To all players attempting to set up their controls to use a PC using a OP simulator or the like just create a new game profile and experiment with it in a new game. This will combat screwing up your league standing. You can always call back your original profile after you become comfortable with the PC controls. I made this mistake as well.
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Post by barbzilla on Mar 11, 2017 18:29:45 GMT -5
Case in point on how Pixonic should handle this: I took a photo of it but this chat won't let me put it here. So if you would open your App Store / Google Store and look up MARVEL Contest of Champions. They released an update last week which tweaked some core mechanics of the game. Well, just yesterday they released another update undoing the tweaks based on player feedback. Rather than push a broken game, they restored the previous unbroken version and will look more closely at the desired results they would like to achieve without harming their player base. Well done, KABAM!! Hey buddy, I just reread my response to you and realized that I not only came off really strong, but also accidentially accused you of tanking due to the way I worded it. First I didn't mean you as you, when I got into my response I was aiming it at those people purposefully tanking to game the system and snatch 90+% winrates and almost guaranteed 5-10g a match by taking 12/12s against 4/6 hangers. Second I stated in my response that Pixonic is ultimately the responsible party here, so we aren't in disagreement on that. My problem is specifically the fact that Tankers (apart from ruining a ton of other players experience and fun with the game) are at this point interfering with the goal you want (the matchmaking fixed). If people abusing the mechanics would just stop doing so for a month or two, a couple of things would happen. 1: The important effect would be that Pixonic could actually focus their effort on fixing the system to prevent the issues you are having with mix matched battles instead of having to waste time creating new systems to stop said mechanic abusers from corrupting the data they will need to do so. 2: The matches themselves would, in fact behind to balance themselves since those super strong players would naturally continue to gain medals and league up to others of their hanger/skill levels. I don't claim that if Tankers stopped that the game would be fine in its current condition, because it is horribly flawed right now (in fact any competitive game that actively tries to enforce a 50% Win rate is cheating its players by forcefully skewing the matches against or for them depending on their win rate. But pixonic can only focus on one problem at a time, and their current goal is to get the match making and league systems set up in a fashion that things like tanking shouldn't be a concern as it shouldn't be needed in order to find a fair fight. However the data that the servers are providing are based off of the played matches, and tanking your league throws off that data. Without accurate data whatever fixes they try to enact would be meaningless because the information they applying to the solution is inaccurate from the effects of tanking. In short the onus is ultimately on Pix to fix the game as it is broken. That said, it doesn't excuse players for ruining other players matches or fun because they didn't like the difficulty they were faced with. It also is extremely disruptive to the goal you claim to want (MM fixed). In short I know I can't stop anyone from Tanking, but I can damn sure try to educate them on why tanking is only adding fuel to an already burning fire and hope some of them take it to heart so Pix can have a better chance of fixing it. I am sorry, it was the NGE that made me quit. When the game was sold and the new owners decided that since WoW was popular at the time, they should convert an otherwise amazing and unique game it a cheap knockoff of WoW, and while they were at it let anyone become a Jedi (cause the weeks I spent unlocking my FS slot was apparently meaningless and Jedi suddenly were everywhere. That was quite literally my greatest video game regret (apart from when SWGemu broke up and stopped working on a pre-ce private server when they were almost 80% done). Anyway thank you for the discussion, and yes I do see your points, I just hope you can try to see mine in response.
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Post by ludicrous on Mar 11, 2017 20:25:29 GMT -5
Case in point on how Pixonic should handle this: I took a photo of it but this chat won't let me put it here. So if you would open your App Store / Google Store and look up MARVEL Contest of Champions. They released an update last week which tweaked some core mechanics of the game. Well, just yesterday they released another update undoing the tweaks based on player feedback. Rather than push a broken game, they restored the previous unbroken version and will look more closely at the desired results they would like to achieve without harming their player base. Well done, KABAM!! Hey buddy, I just reread my response to you and realized that I not only came off really strong, but also accidentially accused you of tanking due to the way I worded it. First I didn't mean you as you, when I got into my response I was aiming it at those people purposefully tanking to game the system and snatch 90+% winrates and almost guaranteed 5-10g a match by taking 12/12s against 4/6 hangers. Second I stated in my response that Pixonic is ultimately the responsible party here, so we aren't in disagreement on that. My problem is specifically the fact that Tankers (apart from ruining a ton of other players experience and fun with the game) are at this point interfering with the goal you want (the matchmaking fixed). If people abusing the mechanics would just stop doing so for a month or two, a couple of things would happen. 1: The important effect would be that Pixonic could actually focus their effort on fixing the system to prevent the issues you are having with mix matched battles instead of having to waste time creating new systems to stop said mechanic abusers from corrupting the data they will need to do so. 2: The matches themselves would, in fact behind to balance themselves since those super strong players would naturally continue to gain medals and league up to others of their hanger/skill levels. I don't claim that if Tankers stopped that the game would be fine in its current condition, because it is horribly flawed right now (in fact any competitive game that actively tries to enforce a 50% Win rate is cheating its players by forcefully skewing the matches against or for them depending on their win rate. But pixonic can only focus on one problem at a time, and their current goal is to get the match making and league systems set up in a fashion that things like tanking shouldn't be a concern as it shouldn't be needed in order to find a fair fight. However the data that the servers are providing are based off of the played matches, and tanking your league throws off that data. Without accurate data whatever fixes they try to enact would be meaningless because the information they applying to the solution is inaccurate from the effects of tanking. In short the onus is ultimately on Pix to fix the game as it is broken. That said, it doesn't excuse players for ruining other players matches or fun because they didn't like the difficulty they were faced with. It also is extremely disruptive to the goal you claim to want (MM fixed). In short I know I can't stop anyone from Tanking, but I can damn sure try to educate them on why tanking is only adding fuel to an already burning fire and hope some of them take it to heart so Pix can have a better chance of fixing it. I am sorry, it was the NGE that made me quit. When the game was sold and the new owners decided that since WoW was popular at the time, they should convert an otherwise amazing and unique game it a cheap knockoff of WoW, and while they were at it let anyone become a Jedi (cause the weeks I spent unlocking my FS slot was apparently meaningless and Jedi suddenly were everywhere. That was quite literally my greatest video game regret (apart from when SWGemu broke up and stopped working on a pre-ce private server when they were almost 80% done). Anyway thank you for the discussion, and yes I do see your points, I just hope you can try to see mine in response. I appreciate your clarity and apology about accusing me, personally, of tanking. I will admit to tanking just prior to the league update, just to test the new system to see how low I could go. I ended up with a 98% win rate. It would've been 100% but I joined a squad battle and we lost. So to anyone who was on the receiving end of my experiment, I apologize. I really did feel like a heel when I found myself among level 3 players. Yes, tanking is a problem and addressing it correctly and identifying it as one of the aforementioned symptoms is important. I haven't written computer code in over 10 years, but it seems logical to this amateur that a certain IF/THEN/ELSE statement might be all that's needed. IF Barbzilla (25) and Ludicrous (30) are equal or less than 3 levels apart THEN Match ELSE No Match You're probably level 30 as well. I don't know. I just threw that out there. My point is preventing the unfair level match ups should not be difficult. I should not have seen level 25 players in my experiment, but I got all the way down among level 3's! That doesn't make me the bad guy just for using the tools already within the game to achieve my desire. I racked up some gold on my way back up, to be sure. Thank you very much! And anyone can still do it because there's nothing preventing it from happening at this point, apart from your own conscience. Expecting players to stop tanking on their accord is like asking drivers not to speed in their cars. People speed simply because they can with no regard for anyone else.
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Post by amidf on Mar 11, 2017 20:51:59 GMT -5
Tankers ARE the problem. If people weren't intentionally playing below their level then using their full potential to dominate, then most matches would be competitive. If you want to play lights or mediums or whatever all the time then you don't need to tank. You just play that hangar, and you'll sink to the right level.
If you want to switch off between light and heavy hangars then that's a problem. The game is no longer designed to enable that.
Complaining that you are constantly outmatched makes no sense. If you are outmatched you will sink until you are able to get league points again. The only thing that makes that system break down are tankers who are purposefully lower than they belong. Something needs to be done about that, for sure.
-Amid
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Mar 12, 2017 6:02:17 GMT -5
Just what people love to do, get smashed over and over so you can play your light to medium bots. People absolutely hate losing and/or getting nowhere on top of it..
We must look at the game and what our overall goals are. My goals are to win and reach certain percentages these are my goals. These goals that I have, gives me the satisfaction that I am able to compete and also it (percentages) MAY show I have proven to be a better than average pilot. The game has removed most of these concepts. Few bots are and can be used at higher levels, if you play well at higher levels (9/12's) you get to get matched up with stuff that are closer to 12/12's. This guarantees that you basically stay between 40 - 60% win rate and avg damage between 400 - 500k. Good numbers but not my idea of fun to lose 50% of the time, and the most notable reason for this failure win rate, is not tankers but the offset match ups. Plus, the same types of weapon systems are played, death button, russian, plasma and long range tridents and level 12 trebs. And, only a handful of bot types are used, predominantly griffs and rhinos and furies on the long game. The game lost a lot of its character, competitiveness, and the variety of bot and weapon set ups. Devs took a three dimensional game and made it a two dimensional game.
Most disturbing of all, Pixonic said for one of the legitimate reasons for leaving a game is "you don't like the map that you are sponed in" THIS also very much contributed to making this game a two dimensional game losing character and greatly designing in a very limited game.
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Mar 12, 2017 6:11:16 GMT -5
Sorry the word was Spawned in, it's very early here..lol
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Post by osang on Mar 12, 2017 6:36:53 GMT -5
Tankers ARE the problem. If people weren't intentionally playing below their level then using their full potential to dominate, then most matches would be competitive. If you want to play lights or mediums or whatever all the time then you don't need to tank. You just play that hangar, and you'll sink to the right level. Right on, and Pixonic messed the matchmaking instead. Bring back the old glorious MM and players will play with their full potential.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Mar 12, 2017 9:07:16 GMT -5
Tankers ARE the problem. If people weren't intentionally playing below their level then using their full potential to dominate, then most matches would be competitive. If you want to play lights or mediums or whatever all the time then you don't need to tank. You just play that hangar, and you'll sink to the right level. Right on, and Pixonic messed the matchmaking instead. Bring back the old glorious MM and players will play with their full potential. amidf & osangBut the moment you break out your heavies and start annihilating people suddenly they're referring to you as a tanker and/or a clubber. Those who choose to play with their lighter equipment and just enjoy themselves as the developers intended get verbally penalized by others who only consider ranking in the game to be important. Screw that. I quit worrying about the rankings or what others think of my gameplay. If others don't like it I truly don't give a sh*t. I choose whatever I want to play with based solely on what I feel like doing. If that puts me in with higher or lower ranked players I just don't care. In one match I might be the clubbed and in the next I might be the clubber. If anything the whole League BS is what's ruining the game. When people think ranking in a video game actually matters it's a seriously sad sad day. Cream rises and curds sink. I'm going to stay milky.
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 12, 2017 9:35:52 GMT -5
Just what people love to do, get smashed over and over so you can play your light to medium bots. People absolutely hate losing and/or getting nowhere on top of it.. We must look at the game and what our overall goals are. My goals are to win and reach certain percentages these are my goals. These goals that I have, gives me the satisfaction that I am able to compete and also it (percentages) MAY show I have proven to be a better than average pilot. The game has removed most of these concepts. Few bots are and can be used at higher levels, if you play well at higher levels (9/12's) you get to get matched up with stuff that are closer to 12/12's. This guarantees that you basically stay between 40 - 60% win rate and avg damage between 400 - 500k. Good numbers but not my idea of fun to lose 50% of the time, and the most notable reason for this failure win rate, is not tankers but the offset match ups. Plus, the same types of weapon systems are played, death button, russian, plasma and long range tridents and level 12 trebs. And, only a handful of bot types are used, predominantly griffs and rhinos and furies on the long game. The game lost a lot of its character, competitiveness, and the variety of bot and weapon set ups. Devs took a three dimensional game and made it a two dimensional game. Most disturbing of all, Pixonic said for one of the legitimate reasons for leaving a game is "you don't like the map that you are sponed in" THIS also very much contributed to making this game a two dimensional game losing character and greatly designing in a very limited game. Why are players obsessed with win rates? It meant nothing in the previous MM and nothing now. It seems like you have competing goals: you want to run the bots/weps you want to run (light/med bots) and you want to have a high win rate which means you need to consistently beat better/stronger players. The two goals are at odds with each other and you are blaming the matchmaker instead of yourself. I am just about in Expert 1 and I still see more bot/wep variety than what you are listing with Champion, Master, Expert and Diamond league players. Do you see light bots? Yes...Gareth and An occasional Gerard or Cossack. But heavies are the norm as you move up because they can dish out and take a beating. Is the game slower than my old silver tier games running my geps? Absolutely but it is more challenging in other ways. I wish we could switch bot line ups to bring more variety but the old MM was flawed in so many ways because Pixo was the one that had to try and balance everything...anytime they tweaked or came out with something, the forced tiering by hanger strength led to all kinds of imbalances. The new MM is all about your skill as the deciding factor so I don't know why you wouldn't be a fan of it. You can choose to run whatever you want...the only way to have a high win % truthfully is to be much better skilled than your competitors or be a highly skilled player with a max hanger. I see a lot of 12/12 players who don't seem to be very good as I kick their butt with my 9/10 hanger so max hangers are not a sure thing for success. Is the game perfect? Nope...and I hope Pixo doesn't do major changes as every time they do so it unleashes a major wave of unintended consequences.
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Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 12, 2017 11:29:06 GMT -5
"Why are players obsessed with win rates? It meant nothing in the previous MM and nothing now." - It means a lot now because the higher your win rates are, the harder your opponents are. "Do you see light bots? Yes...Gareth and An occasional Gerard or Cossack." - Occasional tankers or players trolling. Cossacks have a higher probability of turning tides in older matches. "Is the game slower than my old silver tier games running my geps? Absolutely but it is more challenging in other ways." - That's fallacious, the game can be challenging with other bot variety too. "...the old MM was flawed in so many ways because Pixo was the one that had to try and balance everything" - How? "You can choose to run whatever you want..." - False "...the only way to have a high win % truthfully is to be much better skilled than your competitors or be a highly skilled player with a max hanger." - What about the MM that pitches you against TT opponents on the way up just to force a 50% War Robots? "I see a lot of 12/12 players who don't seem to be very good as I kick their butt with my 9/10 hanger so max hangers are not a sure thing for success." - Good for you but more often than not, better hangars = better winning rate. It isn't a death button loadout when the TT bot can take all the punishment.
FTFY
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ionflow
Destrier
Posts: 79
Karma: 47
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by ionflow on Mar 12, 2017 11:35:46 GMT -5
I'll lead with the tl;Dr 1) better balance among the bot types 2) whole team gets the same league points for win or loss 3) average or total hangar levels should put a lower limit on your league MM.
Balancing the bot types is hard, but needs some serious attention. Right now the TT meta is dominated by heavies. A few tweaks could see that shift to teams full of light bots. It doesn't need to go that far, but lights and mediums need some love.
There has been talk of some how counting beacon caps in the end of match ranking. That would be an improvement, but the better solution is to make league points rewards be on a team basis, not individual. There are already Au incentives for max damage, adding league points to that is not creating good play. The truly toxic incentive is rewarding positive points for the top on the losing team. If you really want to keep graded rewards for the winner, at the very least give the whole losing side the same points.
Hangar strength needs to be accounted for. 10/10 hangars have no place in bronze. They don't even have to do anything fishy with league points. Been messing around with a hangar full of ecu cossacks and find yourself in the private league? No problem, when you switch in your 12/12 ancilot, you will still be in a bottom league, but MM will bump you up to play in diamond+ league games. The bounds can be pretty wide, but there do need to be bounds.
Finally, if you don't like 50% win rates, too bad. That is the state of play in every modern competitive game. Pix could add an unranked game type, but I promise you, it will be a dumpster fire of a game mode and no serious player will spend much time there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 11:36:48 GMT -5
Some of these posters sounds pix butt lickers or clown employees with scripted directives. This is right, no that is wrong, shame on you, blah blah blah.
It should be easy to get around the protection when it comes. Broken patch for broken MM/League.
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Post by amidf on Mar 12, 2017 19:22:57 GMT -5
Some of these posters sounds pix butt lickers or clown employees with scripted directives. This is right, no that is wrong, shame on you, blah blah blah. Which ones?
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Post by amidf on Mar 12, 2017 19:27:35 GMT -5
We must look at the game and what our overall goals are. My goals are to win and reach certain percentages these are my goals. These goals that I have, gives me the satisfaction that I am able to compete and also it (percentages) MAY show I have proven to be a better than average pilot. The game has removed most of these concepts. Few bots are and can be used at higher levels, if you play well at higher levels (9/12's) you get to get matched up with stuff that are closer to 12/12's. This guarantees that you basically stay between 40 - 60% win rate and avg damage between 400 - 500k. Good numbers but not my idea of fun to lose 50% of the time, and the most notable reason for this failure win rate, is not tankers but the offset match ups. The new way to judge your success is league level. If you have low level equipment compared to others in your league, you are playing better. You can see examples of other players in the list of "representative" players in your league. -Amid
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 20:44:22 GMT -5
I'm so sick of losing matches because of people sitting & not playing the game! Why the heck don't they just have a system where if your sitting for 60 seconds & no control input that you get booted out of the match & get replaced with a player that wants to play?
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Post by ludicrous on Mar 12, 2017 23:20:59 GMT -5
I'm so sick of losing matches because of people sitting & not playing the game! Why the heck don't they just have a system where if your sitting for 60 seconds & no control input that you get booted out of the match & get replaced with a player that wants to play? Then those tankers will just find the next trick to beat it. They'll grab a beacon, fire their weapons at a wall, and there's your input requirement. These people are there at their controls. They just are tanking. I stand by my earlier statements and say tankers are not the source of the problem.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 13, 2017 0:46:05 GMT -5
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Post by amidf on Mar 13, 2017 1:16:12 GMT -5
when? where? with 7 mins to go Who won? ?
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 13, 2017 1:24:27 GMT -5
i guess the team with 6 guys
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Mar 13, 2017 2:42:59 GMT -5
I'm so sick of losing matches because of people sitting & not playing the game! Why the heck don't they just have a system where if your sitting for 60 seconds & no control input that you get booted out of the match & get replaced with a player that wants to play? I wouldn't mind getting thrown in a minute in. But you know how those people obsessed with damage points are. "I didn't get a whole minute to rack up my DP! B*tch, moan, cry like a baby. Wahh-waaaaa!!". You think they're bad now take away 60 seconds of their precious match periods. It'd sound like a troop of howler monkeys in here. ? ludicrousYou're right. Some are just watching. I tried pushing one player out into the middle of the Canyon map to use as a shield when they walked their bot around behind me, faced the center and stopped moving. So I tried it again, same thing happened. I did it again and they just walked their bot away from me and parked it further back. What I wouldn't have given for a large sledge hammer and the ability to use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 3:36:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think leavers are being penalised ...
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joezeel
Recruit
Posts: 7
Karma: 3
Pilot name: joezeel
Platform: Android
Clan: IndonesiaSoldier
League: Gold
Favorite robot: BOA
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Post by joezeel on Mar 13, 2017 3:43:43 GMT -5
i stand to u who said that MM is the source of the problem, clubber is always there but thats not a serious matter (the old MM) for me, todays MM push player in the class that they cant enjoy (see..tankers appear) and tankers dont care about win rate..so i think there will be no diff if there is "leaver protection" or not..tanker will play till they drop to the league they want, then if they punished and matched in where they suppose to be - they will play normaly (not tanking)- couple match and everything back to normal again..
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