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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 4:42:56 GMT -5
Yes tanking is here for good and it will never stop with this MM
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Post by wannabetoughguy on Mar 13, 2017 6:03:40 GMT -5
Is the punishment to be placed on a team that is at a disadvantage??
My win rate went from 66% to 70% over the course of an hour. But, every game after I reached 70% I was on a team that had 4 or 5 players max... The other team had all 6 players.... I was placed on a 4 or 5 player team 3 TIMES IN A ROW..... Not cool. Impossible to advance when I'm on a handicapped team.
I usually drop games if I notice a minute or so in that its 4 vs 6 or 5 vs 6 and I'm at a disadvantage.... Seems like this is my punishment, I mean, why the ?firetruck? would I end up on 4 person teams 3 times in a row against 6 person teams? Lame but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to win a game where I'm short on players. Waste of time each game is nearly 10 mins as it is.
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Post by wannabetoughguy on Mar 13, 2017 6:04:19 GMT -5
Is the punishment to be placed on a team that is at a disadvantage?? My win rate went from 66% to 70% over the course of an hour. But, every game after I reached 70% I was on a team that had 4 or 5 players max... The other team had all 6 players.... I was placed on a 4 or 5 player team 3 TIMES IN A ROW..... Not cool. Impossible to advance when I'm on a handicapped team. I usually drop games if I notice a minute or so in that its 4 vs 6 or 5 vs 6 and I'm at a disadvantage.... Seems like this is my punishment, I mean, why the ?firetruck? would I end up on 4 person teams 3 times in a row against 6 person teams? Lame but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to win a game where I'm short on players. Waste of time each game is nearly 10 mins as it is.
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Post by SATmaster728 on Mar 13, 2017 6:39:08 GMT -5
Is the punishment to be placed on a team that is at a disadvantage?? My win rate went from 66% to 70% over the course of an hour. But, every game after I reached 70% I was on a team that had 4 or 5 players max... The other team had all 6 players.... I was placed on a 4 or 5 player team 3 TIMES IN A ROW..... Not cool. Impossible to advance when I'm on a handicapped team. I usually drop games if I notice a minute or so in that its 4 vs 6 or 5 vs 6 and I'm at a disadvantage.... Seems like this is my punishment, I mean, why the ?firetruck? would I end up on 4 person teams 3 times in a row against 6 person teams? Lame but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to win a game where I'm short on players. Waste of time each game is nearly 10 mins as it is. because you leaving only further argivates the unfarity of the match.
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Post by amidf on Mar 13, 2017 8:30:49 GMT -5
Is the punishment to be placed on a team that is at a disadvantage?? My win rate went from 66% to 70% over the course of an hour. But, every game after I reached 70% I was on a team that had 4 or 5 players max... The other team had all 6 players.... I was placed on a 4 or 5 player team 3 TIMES IN A ROW..... Not cool. Impossible to advance when I'm on a handicapped team. I usually drop games if I notice a minute or so in that its 4 vs 6 or 5 vs 6 and I'm at a disadvantage.... Seems like this is my punishment, I mean, why the ?firetruck? would I end up on 4 person teams 3 times in a row against 6 person teams? Lame but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to win a game where I'm short on players. Waste of time each game is nearly 10 mins as it is. You ditch a lot of games, have a high win rate, and you were stuck with a bunch of ditchers? Welcome to the ditchers league! J/k. I don't think it is active yet. -Amid
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 13, 2017 9:06:39 GMT -5
Tanking matches is not the problem. Tanking matches is a symptom of a more serious issue. Players are just trying to find games/matches they can reasonably compete/win in. This is human nature. Let's not penalize the player. Tanking was not an issue prior to the matchmaking rewrite. Right. Before the rewrite, clubbing was. Try to compete and/or win against full Gep hangars with just some lights and meds... Very reasonable. Yes, and this still happens, and it is easier than before. When I was a rookie, at least I didn't have to face a 10/10 Galahad, like my daughter did yesterday (she is below bronze at 700 points). At least you had a chance against 4/10 maggep clubbers with a Taran Thunder Boa. So what's the relevance of your post?
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 13, 2017 9:15:18 GMT -5
Tankers aren't the only problem. It sucks rocks to go up against 12/12 guys in a recruit league (and this happens), but ending up in a league way too high for you if you continue to fight in every game is just as bad, because it means you're outmatched in every game, but keep rising because everybody quits if you're down 2-3 on beacons and dominance after 4 minutes, while you get the honor of +7 points for continuing to fight.
I had a game where I received a phone call 2 minutes into the game, so I had to stop playing. I ended up as #4 damage wise on the losing side, and I didn't have a good 2 minutes. Really, 2 guys were even worse than I was?
You all need to write to Pixo to make them realize that this game is headed towards an ugly crash. All we need is a hangar based matchmaking that is just a bit smarter than the old one. (Which shouldn't be too difficult.)
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Post by peterw35 on Mar 13, 2017 10:17:08 GMT -5
I cam conform the leaver protection is completely, absolutely, definitely not working. I had at least 10-15 games tonight and only one game I saw a full blue team. Every game had a tanker.
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Post by barbzilla on Mar 13, 2017 10:24:05 GMT -5
For those of you worried about or just wanting particular hanger based matches, pixonic did say they were going to implement new game modes to accommodate such play. I seriously doubt they will make it with every player group in mind, but I am sure they will put in stuff like light bot challenges and medium only matches eventually (though they are unlikely to count towards league play). There has even been mention of having a match type set up like the old hanger matching. That said I do not know the specifics of when or even the match types they plan on having, but when they said this it was on response to someone asking about those styles of matches.
The problem is that the more time they spend fixing the current MM and League issues (as well as the protections), the longer it will be before we see any of this.
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Post by amidf on Mar 13, 2017 10:35:12 GMT -5
Tankers aren't the only problem. It sucks rocks to go up against 12/12 guys in a recruit league (and this happens), but ending up in a league way too high for you if you continue to fight in every game is just as bad, because it means you're outmatched in every game, but keep rising because everybody quits if you're down 2-3 on beacons and dominance after 4 minutes, while you get the honor of +7 points for continuing to fight. I had a game where I received a phone call 2 minutes into the game, so I had to stop playing. I ended up as #4 damage wise on the losing side, and I didn't have a good 2 minutes. Really, 2 guys were even worse than I was? You all need to write to Pixo to make them realize that this game is headed towards an ugly crash. All we need is a hangar based matchmaking that is just a bit smarter than the old one. (Which shouldn't be too difficult.) Ok, so tankers aren't the only problem. Ditchers also are. Sometimes they are the same people. Sometimes they are the ditch out of frustration types. Either way they are a problem. "If I see my team is down a bot [someone ditched], I will ditch." I think tankers should he easier to spot. Sore loser ditchers not so much. And there were complaints about the sore losers in this forum under the old MM and plenty of posters who admitted to such lame behavior. -Amid
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chad
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Post by chad on Mar 13, 2017 12:32:18 GMT -5
I used to hate tankers but guess what, I'll be a tanker from now just to move to the league I enjoy. Enemies have higher lv bot/weapon? Fine, as long as they're normal bots it's a challenge that's still can be circumvented with good gameplay. But facing the particularly OP bots that are Fury and Lancilot is NOT FUN.
I ran into one lone Fury maybe once in ten matches before the League. Now they're everywhere!
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chad
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Post by chad on Mar 13, 2017 12:52:52 GMT -5
Complaining that you are constantly outmatched makes no sense. If you are outmatched you will sink until you are able to get league points again. The only thing that makes that system break down are tankers who are purposefully lower than they belong. Something needs to be done about that, for sure. -Amid Yeah, except that "sink until you are able to get league points again" = loosing irritatingly (unfair matches against stronger opponents) tanking = loosing without frustration Both result in the same consequence: falling to lower league where you can compete fairly. See the problem here?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 13:31:21 GMT -5
Man this sucks..I worked up to bronze & was working up to the next level. I was trying to setup my pc to run the game but couldn't get my controls to work right..so I had to immediately exit out of the game so I wasn't just standing there several times trying to make it work. Then I loose a ton of points & back in private lueage. crap.. To all players attempting to set up their controls to use a PC using a OP simulator or the like just create a new game profile and experiment with it in a new game. This will combat screwing up your league standing. You can always call back your original profile after you become comfortable with the PC controls. I made this mistake as well. I made the same mistake at first too setup my pc controls. But I'd leave the game within 30 seconds of starting. After losing some of my ranking & realizing my mistake. I made a new starter profile to do the pc setup. But what gets me is people just standing not doing anything for over 50% off the game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 13:34:59 GMT -5
I'll agree to being out matched at times. I see people with a ton of more powerful weapons & bots be in a battle they shouldn't be in with lesser class bots. For the amount of time I've been playing & real money I have spent I still can't afford all those beefed up weapons some of the opponents have.
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Post by amidf on Mar 13, 2017 14:40:05 GMT -5
Complaining that you are constantly outmatched makes no sense. If you are outmatched you will sink until you are able to get league points again. The only thing that makes that system break down are tankers who are purposefully lower than they belong. Something needs to be done about that, for sure. -Amid Yeah, except that "sink until you are able to get league points again" = loosing irritatingly (unfair matches against stronger opponents) tanking = loosing without frustration Both result in the same consequence: falling to lower league where you can compete fairly. See the problem here? If you are outclassed a lot it shouldn't take long to drop "organically." If you feel you have to do that purposely it kinda sucks, but presumably it is a one time thing. It's not like you plan to drop to a level where you will consistently come in the top spots for damage or have a win rate above 65%, right? If you do drop and then find yourself getting too high again, maybe you need to rethink where proper placement ought to be. If you are fairly placed, you should be losing about half the time, although obviously that eill vary between 40-60%. Really it means you should have about even chance of being in the 12 possible finishing positions. That's where I am now. Sometimes I am the top guy and sometimes the bottom. Usually I'm in between. If you feel the game is only fun when you're dominating the match consistently, that's another thing. -Amid
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Post by Domino on Mar 13, 2017 14:42:51 GMT -5
I'll agree to being out matched at times. I see people with a ton of more powerful weapons & bots be in a battle they shouldn't be in with lesser class bots. For the amount of time I've been playing & real money I have spent I still can't afford all those beefed up weapons some of the opponents have. I'm seeing guys 2 leagues higher than me and getting massacred. Like going full tilt with 5 bots and getting 200K dmg. What a waste of time/energy. I don't get it, you have a league now but wait you can fight guys 1-2 leagues higher than you.... 「whiskey tango foxtrot」!!! I'd rather wait until people in the same league can participate.
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Post by Domino on Mar 13, 2017 14:45:32 GMT -5
Yeah, except that "sink until you are able to get league points again" = loosing irritatingly (unfair matches against stronger opponents) tanking = loosing without frustration Both result in the same consequence: falling to lower league where you can compete fairly. See the problem here? If you are outclassed a lot it shouldn't take long to drop "organically." If you feel you have to do that purposely it kinda sucks, but presumably it is a one time thing. It's not like you plan to drop to a level where you will consistently come in the top spots for damage or have a win rate above 65%, right? If you do drop and then find yourself getting too high again, maybe you need to rethink where proper placement ought to be. If you are fairly placed, you should be losing about half the time, although obviously that eill vary between 40-60%. Really it means you should have about even chance of being in the 12 possible finishing positions. That's where I am now. Sometimes I am the top guy and sometimes the bottom. Usually I'm in between. If you feel the game is only fun when you're dominating the match consistently, that's another thing. -Amid ONLY .. ONLY if your are fighting guys in your League and not tankers either. Nothing more disappointing to get smashed by the competition just to find out they are in 1-2 Leagues above you and outclass you bot and weapon level wise.
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Post by amidf on Mar 13, 2017 16:05:00 GMT -5
If you are outclassed a lot it shouldn't take long to drop "organically." If you feel you have to do that purposely it kinda sucks, but presumably it is a one time thing. It's not like you plan to drop to a level where you will consistently come in the top spots for damage or have a win rate above 65%, right? If you do drop and then find yourself getting too high again, maybe you need to rethink where proper placement ought to be. If you are fairly placed, you should be losing about half the time, although obviously that eill vary between 40-60%. Really it means you should have about even chance of being in the 12 possible finishing positions. That's where I am now. Sometimes I am the top guy and sometimes the bottom. Usually I'm in between. If you feel the game is only fun when you're dominating the match consistently, that's another thing. -Amid ONLY .. ONLY if your are fighting guys in your League and not tankers either. Nothing more disappointing to get smashed by the competition just to find out they are in 1-2 Leagues above you and outclass you bot and weapon level wise. My understanding is that you are as likely to also be paired up with people from lower leagues. Sometimes you're the big fish and sometimes the little. I captured hangar pics where I was the only diamond player against golds. I outclassed them a lot (still finished second bc I ran midrangers early and didn't recognize what was going on). It's rare it is that extreme. I also would wait 30s for a better match on a 10 minute battle. -Amid
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 18:10:11 GMT -5
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 13, 2017 18:15:14 GMT -5
runamok That's not just tankin' that's straight up skankin'...
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Post by lockslywr on Mar 13, 2017 18:30:41 GMT -5
I am not sure why people are thinking tanker/ditcher punishment is now in place?
No announcement. No details. No evidence.
Even if it is in place already why would anyone think that it is going to deter people from ditching matches? Frankly who cares. If I have 4 or more players I will fight. If I have less I will quit. What's the punishment? No one cares. What's the effect on other players? No one cares. I can't even imagine being mad at a ditcher anymore. Mostly because I just don't care.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 13, 2017 20:15:46 GMT -5
I am not sure why people are thinking tanker/ditcher punishment is now in place? No announcement. No details. No evidence. because it doesn't exist.
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Post by zr on Mar 13, 2017 23:41:18 GMT -5
Leaver protection has arrived? My Butt! If anything its got worse, Silver 2 is a nightmare Nearly 2 tankers every game. Impossible to climb a league. Not sure if MM can be fixed? To many variables facts to configure.
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chad
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Post by chad on Mar 14, 2017 5:03:38 GMT -5
Yeah, except that "sink until you are able to get league points again" = loosing irritatingly (unfair matches against stronger opponents) tanking = loosing without frustration Both result in the same consequence: falling to lower league where you can compete fairly. See the problem here? If you are outclassed a lot it shouldn't take long to drop "organically." If you feel you have to do that purposely it kinda sucks, but presumably it is a one time thing. It's not like you plan to drop to a level where you will consistently come in the top spots for damage or have a win rate above 65%, right? If you do drop and then find yourself getting too high again, maybe you need to rethink where proper placement ought to be. If you are fairly placed, you should be losing about half the time, although obviously that eill vary between 40-60%. Really it means you should have about even chance of being in the 12 possible finishing positions. That's where I am now. Sometimes I am the top guy and sometimes the bottom. Usually I'm in between. If you feel the game is only fun when you're dominating the match consistently, that's another thing. -Amid No, it's not about me dominating the match consistently, it's about me being able to contribute meaningfully consistently or not. Before the new MM, I was about mid-high silver (mostly 6/9 bots), win rate was about 55%. Win or loose, I always felt I contributed well to my team. But now, if my team win it's very often that I just free rode the beefed up teammates. If my team loose, most of the times it is very frustrated not because opponents out witted me, but because my poor bots got blasted away by multiple Trident Fury, or beacons got overrun by the almighty un-killable Lancelot/Acile.
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 14, 2017 5:36:58 GMT -5
If you are outclassed a lot it shouldn't take long to drop "organically." That's completely wrong, unfortunately. As many players just give up if the game is not going their way, you will lose a lot, but also get +7 or +3 points a lot and further rise in the stats. I played a stretch of maybe 50-100 games and ended up in an area where I was constantly matched against players 3-4 levels above me, and it seemed I could just not contribute to the match. But if we lost (and we lost a lot), suddenly only 2-3 players continued to play and I would always end up top 3 and gain points. Which leads again to the point that there can't be an incentive to lose (get easier opponents in the next game) or a penalty for continuing to fight (get harder opponents). This is a strict no-no for any game mechanics. Obviously neither Pixo nor the majority of the players have realized this.
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Mar 14, 2017 7:28:24 GMT -5
Tanking/leaving could easily be fixed by Pixonic, but to correctly fix the tanking problem, Pixonic would also be fixing the matchmaking problem.
I like the league idea, but it should be an afterthought when it comes to matchmaking, hanger type should be main focus (your top bot and weapons can only match up with their top bot and weapons BUT you will remain in that tier.
In other words, if you have a lvl 9 galahad then you fight bots equivalent to that type and level (like the old MM) Gepards needed to be in a slightly higher bracket than what they were in the old MM. (of course the bot weapon overall power needs to be put in the equation as well). Leagues come into play as you are assigned to your tier based on your highest bot in your hanger. This would stop lvl 12 furies from showing up in recruit. If you can win in your tier, facing only similar bots in that tier then you move up to the next level (IF YOU WANT!!!) This way you are top dog until someone else takes the crown. Everyone in that tier has an opportunity to take the crown because they have similar and competitive equipment as the top dog. Now you have to prove with your skills who will take that crown. If you change your hanger and end up in a higher or lower tier, then you start at the bottom in that tier and (with your skills) work your way up till you are top dog!
Why are people against this? Why do they like the new MM like it is? Because they suck as a pilot and want to complain about tankers and how to stop them but want to keep this f'd up system. It makes them feel good everyone is at 50% wins just like their sorry selves. They don't really want a true skill related system because that would shine a light on them and show the world how much a sorry 「bum-bum」 they really are.
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Post by amidf on Mar 14, 2017 8:35:40 GMT -5
Why do they like the new MM like it is? Because they suck as a pilot and want to complain about tankers and how to stop them but want to keep this f'd up system. It makes them feel good everyone is at 50% wins just like their sorry selves. They don't really want a true skill related system because that would shine a light on them and show the world how much a sorry ?bum-bum? they really are. I've given my reasons elsewhere. I get good matches. Not all the time, but enough to really enjoy the game. And I like that as I upgrade things, my league standing rises as a result. I don't have to front my "silver II hangar" while I work on my "trash gold" hangar in the background because I WILL be thrown against higher level bots with skilled pilots if I upgrade one more weapon level. I was winning 60-70% with old MM and bring in about 50% more gold each day. Should I assume you had five 4/12 mag gepards? -Amid
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kingzam
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Post by kingzam on Mar 14, 2017 9:02:54 GMT -5
I posted my thoughts about gepards, they need to be kept in the right grouping and probably a low gold tier [they could face galahads] as galahads are a good match against a gepards, but unless Pixonic greatly increases the strength of a gepard then that is as high as it should go.
As far as the rest of my statement goes, it is well received within my clan and I've made similar comments in the past and was well received, it is a win win, competition within your immediate levels and not facing stuff 2, 3 and 4 levels higher.. Like I said if you want to move up a tier once you reach top dog, more power to you. It's all there as far as where you want to go in this game..
Pixonic condones the choosing of maps even though in their Q&A they said such a thing would upset the balance of play. They were right in that Q&A but apparently changed their position when it comes to the actual game. I've seen dead city with 5 death button bots and a carnage, seen 6 thunder carnages on a short map, seen 6 furies and carnages with trebs and tridents on long maps.. People who think this game is just fine, either are just plain stupid or they really get off smashing 6/8's, or 8/10's with expert level 12/12's
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Mar 14, 2017 9:29:19 GMT -5
Tanking/leaving could easily be fixed by Pixonic, but to correctly fix the tanking problem, Pixonic would also be fixing the matchmaking problem. I like the league idea, but it should be an afterthought when it comes to matchmaking, hanger type should be main focus (your top bot and weapons can only match up with their top bot and weapons BUT you will remain in that tier. In other words, if you have a lvl 9 galahad then you fight bots equivalent to that type and level (like the old MM) Gepards needed to be in a slightly higher bracket than what they were in the old MM. (of course the bot weapon overall power needs to be put in the equation as well). Leagues come into play as you are assigned to your tier based on your highest bot in your hanger. This would stop lvl 12 furies from showing up in recruit. If you can win in your tier, facing only similar bots in that tier then you move up to the next level (IF YOU WANT!!!) This way you are top dog until someone else takes the crown. Everyone in that tier has an opportunity to take the crown because they have similar and competitive equipment as the top dog. Now you have to prove with your skills who will take that crown. If you change your hanger and end up in a higher or lower tier, then you start at the bottom in that tier and (with your skills) work your way up till you are top dog! Why are people against this? Why do they like the new MM like it is? Because they suck as a pilot and want to complain about tankers and how to stop them but want to keep this f'd up system. It makes them feel good everyone is at 50% wins just like their sorry selves. They don't really want a true skill related system because that would shine a light on them and show the world how much a sorry ?bum-bum? they really are. The tanking problem is a broader issue. That issue is gold farming. The old MM 4/12 Geps were the means. The new MM its simply trashing your stats and your teammates to Farm. I get it, not all people ran Geps for farming and not all tank for gold, but the vast majority do. Its hard to counter averaging 350- 400 gold per day farming. There is no way to configure any MM to stop farming. Pix sees no other way than penalizing farmers because there isn't any other way. Economically speaking, To stop farmers one would have to pay the average daily farming effort in hopes that the farming mentality would magically transform in to competitive effort. That's absurd. A gear based MM would not hinder farming, only make the means different- there would always be "the farming bot". Pix is now going the only logical route...To make farming difficult, arduous and time consuming.
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Post by Domino on Mar 14, 2017 9:48:21 GMT -5
impose a rule that your can't level your weapons past your lvl bot.
Farmers were using lvl 4 Gepard to stay low level matches with level 12 aphids or mags.
it was gold selfishness over overall fairness and fun. I blame both Pix and the player. Pix for not addressing it and the player for being greedy over the fun of the game and taking advantage.
also reiterating what someone else mentioned. give a point for level bots and level weapons you have in the hanger. add them up and put people in similar point ratings in the same match.
Instead this new League is promoting selfishness again. I just finishing playing 3 matches where NOBODY went for beacons and went for the quickest fight. we lost in under 4 mins and didn't even crack 200k dmg
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