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Post by SlowReflexes on Mar 3, 2017 14:24:11 GMT -5
It's all about league score which you can see and control. Which explains everything, especially tanking. I've lost 80 points and dropped average damage by 50k today... and I'm TRYING to win. If they can't fill 12 slots with equal players, let us play 4 on 4, or whatever number works. The MM system still seems to do stuff that looks like playing dirty trying to *make* you lose when your win % gets too high. For me it seems to be when it hits 64 I get utterly wrecked, I lose and lose badly so my win % and avg damage go down. Then when my win % gets down around 42 or so, it's like I become a god or something. I win and win big, 6, 8 even 10 gold a match. Win % and avg damage definitely both go up. Get to 64%, it starts down again. I call it the see saw. It was worse in the old MM, but it definitely hasn't gone away. Don't sweat every temporary fluctuation, the MM *will* put you through cycles. |
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Post by nocluevok on Mar 3, 2017 15:33:56 GMT -5
That temporary fluctuation is going to knock me back to a lower position than when I started. Seems pretty stupid to artificially tank players on purpose. My 68% win rate got dropped because I can win and/or have good teammates? Or worse, now i become a liability because "it's my turn to lose." Let me hit the wall with my peers, not 12/12 Expert level teams. I'm down here is Silver II for Pete sake. Like I've said before, if the MM can't find 12 equal level player's, go with a short map and a smaller group.
I had high hopes the new MM would work. Personally, it was less frustrating when I didn't know what tier I was in.
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iKily
Destrier
Don´t poke me, I Die
Posts: 50
Karma: 31
Pilot name: iKyli
Platform: Android
Clan: None
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: GAU Punisher Leo
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Post by iKily on Mar 3, 2017 21:56:59 GMT -5
Sigh...I really need to vent now; I was sort of fine with the old and new MM (a bit of a defender of the system too), that was until this League thing was added; I made a decent amount of Gold (5-10 per match), my Victory rate was rarely below 65 %.
But since league was added it all went to hell; I really don´t care about losing rank, or winning rank; all I cared was about Gold (and no, I´m not a clubber); now, and thanks to the new system, gaining gold seems really unlikely (aside from daily quests).
Why?, the reason is quite simple, I´m at a solid 50% win rate; whenever I win I either can´t get the most Beacons or my Damage puts me among the last places; and whenever I loose, I´m usually the top player, something I really don´t care...as I see no reward with that.
The only incentive would be to rank up, except; that with that 5 looses out of 10 my rank usually goes down a lot more than it goes up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 5:39:06 GMT -5
Ok, as for myself I rather not get negative, now that is out of the way. I will just state the facts of a recent game, 30 minutes ago on iOS.
I am Expert League I my 5 teammates were all Gold League III, two of those quit. I don't blame them either. We were destroyed. Stepped on, stomped into a mud hole.
The opposition. Was three Champions and two Masters, one same as me. Our LR scored the most damage, course he didn't have to go out and fight them.
This is Matchmaking at it's best. New, improved, better than ever.
Then I was checking Discord, someone asked in my clan on Android, what was the first weapon that I remember being added. Easy, Zenit. Actually bought one, then when the new sell feature was added, sold it.
Then I went back and checked my old spiral notebook I have kept since I started playing the game to make sure I was right. Know what else was introduced around that time. You got it, a new Matchmaking system to solve all of our problems, make the pairings more equal, enhance game play. That was almost 2 years ago.
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kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Mar 4, 2017 5:58:12 GMT -5
I don't understand it. Why aren't we just playing against those in our tier! When you become the best in your league, then you move up to the next tier, you just keep working your way up till you become champion.. I don't understand why Pixonic is matching everyone with people above or below your tiers.. Ok, I must admit regrettably, this thing is Broken too!
How can something so simple be such a mess?
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Mar 4, 2017 6:46:13 GMT -5
I don't understand it. Why aren't we just playing against those in our tier! When you become the best in your league, then you move up to the next tier, you just keep working your way up till you become champion.. I don't understand why Pixonic is matching everyone with people above or below your tiers.. Ok, I must admit regrettably, this thing is Broken too! How can something so simple be such a mess? It's probably due to trying to select 12 players quickly from a relatively small pool of players. Rather than having millions of players to choose from, there's probably a lot of sub-division going on, like "geographical region", "ping times", "server capacity", "game version" etc. When you also have less players due to off-peak times, you can see how the pools can be a lot smaller than we expect. Instead of having to wait several minutes for a good matchup, we get thrown into a sub-optimal one after 3 seconds. Either that or the matchmaking system is utterly fubar.  |
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Post by notyetnotsosoon on Mar 4, 2017 13:55:56 GMT -5
Sigh...I really need to vent now; I was sort of fine with the old and new MM (a bit of a defender of the system too), that was until this League thing was added; I made a decent amount of Gold (5-10 per match), my Victory rate was rarely below 65 %. But since league was added it all went to hell; I really don´t care about losing rank, or winning rank; all I cared was about Gold (and no, I´m not a clubber); now, and thanks to the new system, gaining gold seems really unlikely (aside from daily quests). Why?, the reason is quite simple, I´m at a solid 50% win rate; whenever I win I either can´t get the most Beacons or my Damage puts me among the last places; and whenever I loose, I´m usually the top player, something I really don´t care...as I see no reward with that. The only incentive would be to rank up, except; that with that 5 looses out of 10 my rank usually goes down a lot more than it goes up. QFT! TL:DR: Winning w/o Gold; Losing at top 2 spots (so still no Gold); Winning % increases w/o benefits Tbh, was looking all over in the Rants section for this comment. Crappy MM aside, this phenomenon really drives me up the wall. But naysayers be like: "Oh, you're just a terrible player with the introduction of the League system!". Also:  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 20:45:13 GMT -5
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MM RANTS!
Mar 8, 2017 21:27:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lilryry on Mar 8, 2017 21:27:09 GMT -5
im in diamond 3 as well and my hanger is 6/8 and all I get are opponents like this, gets old real quick out playing ppl but ultimately losing due to gear...mm is so dumb |
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Post by spawnreaper on Mar 8, 2017 23:57:01 GMT -5
THIS GAME SUCKS... I purposely load medium bots like ROG Carnages and GEPS cause I can not stand the game at the top with trebs tridents zeus everywhere. I was placed in silver league... I'm still facing triple treb trident furies.. basically anytime I try to cross a map with a rog or gep or any fast moving bot within seconds I'm obliterated.. So these bots are worthless in many games.. SO why even bother having them in the game if the game is all heavy slow movers that dominate the dmagae upon which all will be judged and yet you still get matched against these players even when you load lower hangars Since I despise the slow heavy bot range game crap fest the higher up you climb, there is no place to play this game and have any resemblance of a fun unless sitting close to your spawn point and trying to pick off range players with range bots is your idea of fun gaming When geps ruled the game was fast and fun.. Now its slow boring snooze fest.. I remember when I started playing.. I could never compete in damage and geps ruled so I did all the beacon dirty work till I got my hangar and survived geps for months... Never complained.. I was a newbie and I persevered.. fast forward to the chronic whiners about geps and the end result is a crappy boring game I went from maintaining 2500-3500 trophies to less than 200 now.. I could not even bring myself to play any matches this weekend, everytime I sat down I just said ?firetruck? it not worth it.. Today we get leagues back and I'm still up against the high lvl range bot stupidity..... ?firetruck? it not worth it... so i'm looking for a replacement game.... Try Warhammer 40k Freeblade it was 2016 game of the year |
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Post by kingjah on Mar 9, 2017 21:23:41 GMT -5
Ok need to vent about MM again... Wtfing damn .... Argh! So im gold 1, 10/10 hangar and just broke the mark to move to diamond within 5 games. And i get the next game my team is 2 experts, 2 diamond, 2 gold vs a team of 6 grouped up guys, who obviously know each other well. There were 1 diamond 3 master and 2 legenderies!!! The game lasted not even 3 minutes, went through 4 bots and didnt get out of the starting zone after the first minute. None of us did. Seriously thats some 「fluffernutter」ed up stupid 「dookie」!
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MM RANTS!
Mar 13, 2017 16:21:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lilryry on Mar 13, 2017 16:21:10 GMT -5
Sigh...I really need to vent now; I was sort of fine with the old and new MM (a bit of a defender of the system too), that was until this League thing was added; I made a decent amount of Gold (5-10 per match), my Victory rate was rarely below 65 %. But since league was added it all went to hell; I really don´t care about losing rank, or winning rank; all I cared was about Gold (and no, I´m not a clubber); now, and thanks to the new system, gaining gold seems really unlikely (aside from daily quests). Why?, the reason is quite simple, I´m at a solid 50% win rate; whenever I win I either can´t get the most Beacons or my Damage puts me among the last places; and whenever I loose, I´m usually the top player, something I really don´t care...as I see no reward with that. The only incentive would be to rank up, except; that with that 5 looses out of 10 my rank usually goes down a lot more than it goes up. new mm working as intended...pix killed our ability to get gold consistently...I just wish they would own it instead of acting like this was in any way an attempt to stop clubbing, all about the money |
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Mar 13, 2017 16:56:17 GMT -5
I've lost 80 points and dropped average damage by 50k today... and I'm TRYING to win. If they can't fill 12 slots with equal players, let us play 4 on 4, or whatever number works. The MM system still seems to do stuff that looks like playing dirty trying to *make* you lose when your win % gets too high. What I've heard and seen is in line with this as well. The new MM was supposed to be based on Microsoft's TrueSkill that was only supposed to set your expected probability of winning a match to 50% ex ante. So many insiders here argued that it wasn't forcing winrates down, but it seems like that's exactly what it does, utilizing cheap hacks like giving a player Springfield and bad teammates more often when their winrate gets higher than a certain arbitrary point. Whoever implemented this does not seem to understand basic statistics (let along Bayesianism), just like whoever thought up Leagues has no basic understanding of how incentives work. Had they done it right, there would be no incentive to tank, and doing well would be rewarded. Instead, they got it backwards, and doing badly is what is rewarded. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 16:59:15 GMT -5
new mm working as intended...pix killed our ability to get gold consistently...I just wish they would own it instead of acting like this was in any way an attempt to stop clubbing, all about the money Wait, is this a bad thing? Payouts have not changed. Do you believe the game should allow one guy out of 12 to have a better than 1/12 chance of being the guy to get top damage gold or MoC gold every time? |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Mar 13, 2017 17:45:32 GMT -5
Here is something that I think needs to be asked... To further the MM Rant dialogue.
So, my understanding of the way all this is working, and please, correct if I am wrong... is that that the leagues don't DO anything. They provide a framework for future stuff maybe... but from all I can tell the Damage Ratio per match is still the deciding factor. If you get thrown in with Diamond and all that, what are their avg damage scores? Are they close to yours? If so, that may be the only thing still determining the match-ups.
Now, as far as the match-up that das veen showed above... that looks like you were a match filler. The rest of them look very closely matched, so I would bet you were the "extra" needed to fill an empty slot. But, that is strictly a guess... as I am still unclear on the basics! See paragraph above^
Seriously though, it feels like leagues aren't doing anything. They provide a way to be in a particular tier of stats for payout of rewards due to ranking with no lines to differentiate who you are matched up with. But not to do anything to match you up with your teammates or enemies. At least, if it IS supposed to be doing that... it is failing miserably. I would love an unequivocal answer as to what does what in this game...
So I guess my rant is geared towards Pix... Guys, PLEASE clear up exactly what is being used for the MM. If the league system is, in fact, doing the MMing, then for the love of all things robotic... tighten it down to similar leveled hangars, then use damage to rank us within that league. All this ranting is based on the fact that you do NOT have us logically matched in any way. Hanger should have something to do with the initial grouping of players. That seems obvious. Yes damage can get part of that match up since certain weapon levels are going to dish out the same damage from one hangar to another, but it is so easy for a hangar with all level 12s to just not do as much damage as he/she should, and therefore be matched with people that ARE doing the damage he/she is doing. Then, when they want to win... they just use their weapons and freaking clean everyone else's clocks! There should be SOME form of check against weapon levels, at the least, to ensure the hangars are really consistent.
IMO. YMMV.
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Post by lilryry on Mar 13, 2017 20:18:17 GMT -5
new mm working as intended...pix killed our ability to get gold consistently...I just wish they would own it instead of acting like this was in any way an attempt to stop clubbing, all about the money Wait, is this a bad thing? Payouts have not changed. Do you believe the game should allow one guy out of 12 to have a better than 1/12 chance of being the guy to get top damage gold or MoC gold every time? hahahahahaha yes absolutely my if a person is more skilled they will have a better chance at recieving rewards or at least they should but with the current mm bads get to win as well. This really is socialized gaming, do you honestly believe everyone should get to win 50% of the time? It just feels like pix is handing out participation trophies now, o you have level 10 bots but you actually suck at the game? Here are some level 4's you can beat up on so you don't feel left out... |
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MM RANTS!
Mar 13, 2017 20:22:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lilryry on Mar 13, 2017 20:22:28 GMT -5
Here is something that I think needs to be asked... To further the MM Rant dialogue. So, my understanding of the way all this is working, and please, correct if I am wrong... is that that the leagues don't DO anything. They provide a framework for future stuff maybe... but from all I can tell the Damage Ratio per match is still the deciding factor. If you get thrown in with Diamond and all that, what are their avg damage scores? Are they close to yours? If so, that may be the only thing still determining the match-ups. Now, as far as the match-up that das veen showed above... that looks like you were a match filler. The rest of them look very closely matched, so I would bet you were the "extra" needed to fill an empty slot. But, that is strictly a guess... as I am still unclear on the basics! See paragraph above^ Seriously though, it feels like leagues aren't doing anything. They provide a way to be in a particular tier of stats for payout of rewards due to ranking with no lines to differentiate who you are matched up with. But not to do anything to match you up with your teammates or enemies. At least, if it IS supposed to be doing that... it is failing miserably. I would love an unequivocal answer as to what does what in this game... So I guess my rant is geared towards Pix... Guys, PLEASE clear up exactly what is being used for the MM. If the league system is, in fact, doing the MMing, then for the love of all things robotic... tighten it down to similar leveled hangars, then use damage to rank us within that league. All this ranting is based on the fact that you do NOT have us logically matched in any way. Hanger should have something to do with the initial grouping of players. That seems obvious. Yes damage can get part of that match up since certain weapon levels are going to dish out the same damage from one hangar to another, but it is so easy for a hangar with all level 12s to just not do as much damage as he/she should, and therefore be matched with people that ARE doing the damage he/she is doing. Then, when they want to win... they just use their weapons and freaking clean everyone else's clocks! There should be SOME form of check against weapon levels, at the least, to ensure the hangars are really consistent. IMO. YMMV. good post, I'm all for a damage ratio/gear lvl based mm as right now like you said the leagues do nothing except give out gold every 30 days. I don't see pix doing this though because then people that are good at the game will be able to get a decent amount of gold again and that's precisely what the new mm is meant to prevent... |
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Post by frunobulax on Mar 14, 2017 10:22:44 GMT -5
The leagues visualize the broken matchmaking, and give casual players a mild incentive to advance. (Until they realize that it's better to stay in a lower league, as you will get much more gold and silver there.)
The damage ratio has nothing to do with it. I could achieve a reliable 500k damage average in bronze, but in Silver I (the best I managed) I struggled to maintain 300k.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Mar 15, 2017 12:39:10 GMT -5
Why didn't Pixonic just implement what they said they were going to implement? They claimed that it was going to be based on both hangar strength and match stats. Had they actually done that, tanking wouldn't have been a problem. Leagues could've also have helped if they had taken the no-brainer step of making per-match rewards worth more in higher Leagues. Either there is some gross incompetence going on, or these mismatches are intentional in their hunt for whales. I know I said this before, but it was a while ago in a thread warning against paying real money for virtual goods. This really feels like ES File Explorer all over again. Developer creates high-quality free app and builds up a massive user base with great reviews and word-of-mouth. Developer then milks that user base dry by making changes that erode the product's value to the user but generates revenue to the developer. |
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MM RANTS!
Mar 15, 2017 19:57:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by lilryry on Mar 15, 2017 19:57:39 GMT -5
I'm diamond 3 league with 6/8 hanger, got up to 60% win rate and started getting paired with 10/10-12/12 hangers in expert league, you know, to make sure I wasn't able to win too much or possibly make some gold...looks like I get to lose a few until it decides I get some fair matches again :/
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MM RANTS!
Mar 16, 2017 13:32:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by neckbone on Mar 16, 2017 13:32:57 GMT -5
I've lost 200+ cups over the last few days so I'm back floundering in Silver 2. Out of curiosity I checked my opponents profile and...
1 LEGEND,
4 EXPERTS
1 high DIAMOND.
My side had
1 wolf badge ??
4 High Diamonds
And me a silver 2
Needless to say I lost another 20 on that one.
It's the first legend I've faced, but I'm usually way out classed. Don't really stand much of a sporting chance when everybody has that big of an advantage.
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Post by CrownBlack on Mar 16, 2017 13:52:07 GMT -5
It's all about league score which you can see and control. Which explains everything, especially tanking. I've lost 80 points and dropped average damage by 50k today... and I'm TRYING to win. If they can't fill 12 slots with equal players, let us play 4 on 4, or whatever number works. I had just made it to Gold 3. I was pretty excited. This was a week ago. Since this point I have dropped over 100 points!!! and still miles away to getting back there. I am playing the same 3 maps all the freaking time. I watch "teammates" totally ignore beacons. So screw it. I am going to just get my damage and gold and move along and never give 2 「dookie」s about moving up levels. Its just not worth it. I will level my mechs and not worry about the f-ing retards that i get teamed with. I actually get tanking now. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 6:08:02 GMT -5
Lol... 「whiskey tango foxtrot」... I am still in recruit with almost always max damage (for my league) and most are wins... damn  |
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 20, 2017 10:11:05 GMT -5
I posted this in the wrong thread last night, so I'm re-posting it to the correct one. I have two words for Pixonic The first one starts with F and the second one starts with Y. From now on, they will not get another penny from me. I'm just going to free play and consume their bandwidth and server resources until they fix the stupid matchmaker. This is the match I just got out of.  Blue Ratings: 1) 4648 2) 7639 3) 4270 4) 4171 5) 1524 6) 1646 Red Ratings: 1) 5676 2) 7569 3) 4520 4) 4118 5) 6649 6) 6033 1) What am I and the other bottom blue even doing in this match? Fing everyone else on the map literally has 2 to 4 times the rating we have. We have zero chance of affecting the battle. The only thing crappy matches like this accomplish is pis**** me off. 2) how is this even close to fare to my teammates? they got hosed because i was just a wasted bot. 3) the average ranking was blue:3983, red:5757. Great Job Pixonic, nothing like giving one team a 44% advantage. Jesus, my dogs are probably better at math then the developers at Pixonic. |
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Post by lilryry on Mar 20, 2017 20:40:23 GMT -5
Loving this mm, have been beat down to 40% win rate the last 2 days and my 6/8 hanger is still getting paired against 10/12 hangers all day, just lose after loss after loss. I play a few everyday just to see if anything has improved and it's worse than ever
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Post by spawnreaper on Mar 20, 2017 21:00:20 GMT -5
Im just a little shocked that pixonic never really addressed this problem with new mm other than really saying they are aware of the problems. Do all the customers that approach you mean that little to you? Is all pix interested in is fast profits? Best thing that might mean is your thinking of reselling this game. Hopefully someone interested in making a game that has the players in mind first buys then.
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 20, 2017 23:42:56 GMT -5
Im just a little shocked that pixonic never really addressed this problem with new mm other than really saying they are aware of the problems. Do all the customers that approach you mean that little to you? Is all pix interested in is fast profits? Best thing that might me)an is your thinking of reselling this game. Hopefully someone interested in making a game that has the players in mind first buys then. If enough people don't buy gold they will feel the pain, and they will feel it quick. Hence the reason I said I'm just going to consume resources till they fix the stupid thing. |
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Post by boomsplat on Mar 21, 2017 14:42:51 GMT -5
MM has hit a new low. I'm in Expert 1, and my last match just had 2 silver squad players on my squad in addition to other Expert and Master players. The red squad had a mix of Champion and Master and Expert.....「whiskey tango foxtrot」 is going on with MM? When I saw the Schutz drop in with a Kang Dae at the start, I thought we had a tanker...nope, 3 slot silver players that were thrown into this match. Went down to a fast defeat as the red squad just rolled over us. I'm just getting fed up with these crazy mismatches....and I know it couldn't have been fun for the silver guys, either. This just sucks.  |
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Post by IStandAlone on Mar 21, 2017 16:14:56 GMT -5
and I know it couldn't have been fun for the silver guys, either. It's definitely not fun when I run into a maxed out Lancelot in a 8/9 Griffin. |
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Post by hurtbot on Mar 21, 2017 18:47:00 GMT -5
With the profanity filter in place, I'm having a difficult time finding the words to express my displeasure at the moment.
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