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Post by carnage on Feb 22, 2017 10:39:01 GMT -5
so basically the new mm solved zero issues, it just dir free the same issues at different ppl...it's actually pretty simple, he has a 9/12 hanger so he should only be going up against 9/12ish hangers. This isn't a hard concept and I would argue the new mm is flawed more than the last on because in theory this guy could tank to the point he's facing newbies with that hanger where as before the tier system would've prevented that from happening Except I'm pretty sure he also has (and has used) a full 4/6, 4/9, and/or 4/12 hangar full of trimag/triaphid gepards. And Taranasaurus Rogatkas. And the resources to build whatever other hangar he needs to exploit whatever MM is in place next (P2W). The tier system obviously didn't prevent him from racking up a 237-win streak (which I'm betting was much easier under the old MM than it is now) in the first place. The problem isn't the old MM or the new MM, it's simply people behaving badly. No recommendation for how the MM 'ought' to work is going to solve fundamental problems of human behavior - at best, you could funnel bad behavior in a certain direction. I would endorse long-term tracking of exploit abuse to inform a MM that tends to group exploiters against each other while generally removing them from the overall player pool. It would necessarily be slow to respond to new exploits, but once a player develops "bad karma" from exploit abuse it should also be slow to recover. I see what you mean, but I disagree on the bolded above. A solid, well-defined gear-based MM doesn't let a lot of place (if any) for this kind of things, but whatever, the topic has been beaten to death anyway. 
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Post by lilryry on Feb 22, 2017 10:53:16 GMT -5
Except I'm pretty sure he also has (and has used) a full 4/6, 4/9, and/or 4/12 hangar full of trimag/triaphid gepards. And Taranasaurus Rogatkas. And the resources to build whatever other hangar he needs to exploit whatever MM is in place next (P2W). The tier system obviously didn't prevent him from racking up a 237-win streak (which I'm betting was much easier under the old MM than it is now) in the first place. The problem isn't the old MM or the new MM, it's simply people behaving badly. No recommendation for how the MM 'ought' to work is going to solve fundamental problems of human behavior - at best, you could funnel bad behavior in a certain direction. I would endorse long-term tracking of exploit abuse to inform a MM that tends to group exploiters against each other while generally removing them from the overall player pool. It would necessarily be slow to respond to new exploits, but once a player develops "bad karma" from exploit abuse it should also be slow to recover. I see what you mean, but I disagree on the bolded above. A solid, well-defined gear-based MM doesn't let a lot of place (if any) for this kind of things, but whatever, the topic has been beaten to death anyway.
i fail to see why so many can't grasp this concept...average bot level with weapon level or something...let people run 4/12 geps but pair them against 8/8 hangers. My hanger is basically 6/8 and I gladly take my free kilos from 4/12 geps I see now |
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Post by tsunisterbr on Feb 22, 2017 12:52:51 GMT -5
You know, you may say you prefer the new MM, no problem. But to say it's as easy to cheat on the new one as it was in the old is just nonsense. The only serious issue we had with people trying to exploit a flaw in that system was gep-mags, and that ONLY occurred because pixonic allowed that. It wouldn't be hard at all to cap the max lvl weapons one could get on the geppard, just as all other bots. OTOH, this new MM.. really, full of holes.
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poisonelf
Destrier
4 fair matches, not what exists today
Posts: 43
Karma: 10
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Post by poisonelf on Feb 23, 2017 8:28:50 GMT -5
MM is fine, people is not. The whole thing would be fixed very easily: matches you don't finish with at least 25% damage of the best player or 50% beacons of best capper simply don't get counted. Also, you have to wait for the match you leave to be finished before joining another. Tank that.And shouldn't be that hard to implement. Also, clans/friends. If you go and squad with 5 of your mates, you don't have tankers on your side. I can barely squad anymore, i would rather have tankers than springfield and Yam every battle over and over in squads. Full squads even agree to just drop matches after awhile in those camper maps that squads are forced in over and over. |
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Feb 23, 2017 9:07:53 GMT -5
Strange, I've been squadding and I haven't seen such prevalence. In fact, quite the opposite: it seems to be Shenzen over and over and over and over and (...) again
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 10:24:27 GMT -5
Just wanted to drop a note that I like your style of writing.
Great intro and great observations.
Will revisit this Diary while leaving this forum (echochamber for trolls...).
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Post by SGT D00M! on Feb 23, 2017 11:01:29 GMT -5
Just wanted to drop a note that I like your style of writing. Great intro and great observations. Will revisit this Diary while leaving this forum (echochamber for trolls...). Agreed on both points 100% |
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Post by sonofsam on Feb 24, 2017 11:43:31 GMT -5
OK Dredd you win. I've had it with the new MM. Not because I think the MM is bad, I think it does a great job most of the time, but because the damn tankers/droppers are ruining the game
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 24, 2017 11:53:32 GMT -5
OK Dredd you win. I've had it with the new MM. Not because I think the MM is bad, I think it does a great job most of the time, but because the damn tankers/droppers are ruining the game SO you don't think the MM is bad and it does a great job most of the time. BUT it rewards players for tanking/dropping. AND you are blaming players for ruining the game, instead of the MM. I can't follow the logic here. |
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Post by sonofsam on Feb 24, 2017 12:07:52 GMT -5
OK Dredd you win. I've had it with the new MM. Not because I think the MM is bad, I think it does a great job most of the time, but because the damn tankers/droppers are ruining the game SO you don't think the MM is bad and it does a great job most of the time. BUT it rewards players for tanking/dropping. AND you are blaming players for ruining the game, instead of the MM. I can't follow the logic here. You know, I've been waiting for you to troll another one of my posts so I can block you. |
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 24, 2017 12:14:59 GMT -5
sonofsam Sounds like you are ready to quit playing War Robots anyway.
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Feb 24, 2017 12:33:28 GMT -5
OK Dredd you win. I've had it with the new MM. Not because I think the MM is bad, I think it does a great job most of the time, but because the damn tankers/droppers are ruining the game SO you don't think the MM is bad and it does a great job most of the time. BUT it rewards players for tanking/dropping. AND you are blaming players for ruining the game, instead of the MM. I can't follow the logic here. That's actually logically consistent. Considering that there is always a resource/benefit tradeoff in designing a system to do a job, a system can be considered well designed if it does its job outside malicious external intervention (" I think it does a great job most of the time"). Yet, it is true that massive external malicious intervention might still hurt the system ("but because the damn tankers/droppers are ruining the game"). And you can actually blaming the malicious agents for the system non functioning properly, rather than the system that, if not tempered with, would work. In fact, that's what you do real life. You blame thieves, not the property laws when someone breaks in your house, I suppose? Point is: real life, there are policing authorities to prevent or punish the exploit or downright breechof a system, in game there aren't (yet?). But there is nothing intrinsically illogic in sonofsam's statements. |
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 24, 2017 12:46:46 GMT -5
AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] That's another bad analogy. Your analogy would only be comparable to the current MM situation if: Thieves broke into your house, and then the cops came and also gave the thieves their wallets and applauded while the thieves drove away. Pixonic created a MM that rewards tanking. THE END.
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 24, 2017 12:48:54 GMT -5
That's another bad analogy. Your analogy would work if thieves broke into your house, and then the cops came and also gave the thieves their wallets applauded while they drove away. Pixonic created a MM that rewards tanking. THE END.  |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 13:32:39 GMT -5
Pixonic created a MM that rewards tanking. THE END. Logical Fallacies related to this stubborn attitude (this entire reply included as an Ad Hominem attack in and of itself): Argument from Personal Incredulity: You are making statements of opinion, not fact. Pixonic created a new Matchmaker, fact. The new Matchmaker can be exploited with malicious intent to reward socially unacceptable behavior, fact. However, your continuous implication that Pixonic deserves all of the blame for the situation is a statement of your opinion, not a fact, and many, many folks continue to disagree with you. Circular Reasoning/Begging the Question/Irrelevant Conclusion: "THE END." You are not God, nor the Dictionary Master. This is similar to a couple arguing and one of them saying "End of subject!" and refusing to communicate anymore. Grow up, because nobody gives a 「dookie」 if you think you have the ultimate answer and declare your refusal to listen. But really, you are engaging in the following: I love the 'Nets, cut&paste monkey work all day. |
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Post by tsunisterbr on Feb 24, 2017 13:54:32 GMT -5
Whatever. I do agree with blastronaut. A good system must be designed CONSIDERING all external agents and exploits of the real world. If it's not, it's just a good theory, nothing more. Up until now, Pixonic has been incredibly naive. It is only THEIR fault for what is happening, but hey, in the end, it's their game, so it's their problem, isn't it?
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Feb 24, 2017 15:15:23 GMT -5
Whatever. I do agree with blastronaut. A good system must be designed CONSIDERING all external agents and exploits of the real world. If it's not, it's just a good theory, nothing more. Up until now, Pixonic has been incredibly naive. It is only THEIR fault for what is happening, but hey, in the end, it's their game, so it's their problem, isn't it? You know, you are right. And considering that, let's not forget those idiots that designed the fork without considering that people can throw them in their own eyes. Forks are terrible, terrible systems since they haven't considered all the possible ways humans could abuse them (hey, aren't they at fault for those who electrocute themselves by sticking them into power outlets? Sure they are!), despite the fact they solve admirably well the problem they were designing to deal with. In fact, let's actually round up all those who produce forks and stone them to death for perpetuating this awfully badly designed system. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 15:19:04 GMT -5
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 24, 2017 16:16:35 GMT -5
Pixonic created a MM that rewards tanking. THE END. Logical Fallacies related to this stubborn attitude (this entire reply included as an Ad Hominem attack in and of itself): Argument from Personal Incredulity: You are making statements of opinion, not fact. Pixonic created a new Matchmaker, fact. The new Matchmaker can be exploited with malicious intent to reward socially unacceptable behavior: Opinion/Fiction. However, your continuous implication that Pixonic deserves all of the blame for the situation is a statement of your opinion, not a fact, and many, many folks continue to disagree with you. The new Matchmaker permits players to lower their ranking: Fact See what I did there? |
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Feb 24, 2017 17:22:42 GMT -5
Are you suggesting a matchmaker where you cannot lower your ranking, being perpetually stuck in the higher rank you get, thus essentially negating the possibility of going back to lighter bots?
because that's tehonly way a MM can get rid of the concept of lower someone's ranking.
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Post by tsunisterbr on Feb 24, 2017 17:36:23 GMT -5
Whatever. I do agree with blastronaut. A good system must be designed CONSIDERING all external agents and exploits of the real world. If it's not, it's just a good theory, nothing more. Up until now, Pixonic has been incredibly naive. It is only THEIR fault for what is happening, but hey, in the end, it's their game, so it's their problem, isn't it? You know, you are right. And considering that, let's not forget those idiots that designed the fork without considering that people can throw them in their own eyes. Forks are terrible, terrible systems since they haven't considered all the possible ways humans could abuse them (hey, aren't they at fault for those who electrocute themselves by sticking them into power outlets? Sure they are!), despite the fact they solve admirably well the problem they were designing to deal with. In fact, let's actually round up all those who produce forks and stone them to death for perpetuating this awfully badly designed system. Forks can be used for any purpose you want, true, as anything else you may think. But only a ridiculously smal percentage of them will be used for something other than their main task, so we can weight and neglect the downsides of this tool. Thus, you can't compare such thing with this MM, something designed with a serious flaw, which may prejudice the major part of its player population. I don't think you can't understand this basic premise. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 24, 2017 18:52:11 GMT -5
Logical Fallacies related to this stubborn attitude (this entire reply included as an Ad Hominem attack in and of itself): Argument from Personal Incredulity: You are making statements of opinion, not fact. Pixonic created a new Matchmaker, fact. The new Matchmaker can be exploited with malicious intent to reward socially unacceptable behavior: Opinion/Fiction. However, your continuous implication that Pixonic deserves all of the blame for the situation is a statement of your opinion, not a fact, and many, many folks continue to disagree with you. The new Matchmaker permits players to lower their ranking: Fact See what I did there?  Sorry Dredd77, I just couldn't resist. Ima Shuddup Now. |
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 25, 2017 0:55:22 GMT -5
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kingzam
Destrier
Posts: 56
Karma: 51
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Post by kingzam on Feb 25, 2017 21:29:22 GMT -5
Thanks Dredd, good read, and glad you are seeing the issues.
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Post by spawnreaper on Feb 26, 2017 0:42:31 GMT -5
If people think tanking is going away, you're kidding yourself. Pixonix is using a formula that has been used for years in coc another pay to win game. Supercell and other developers use this formula to make more cash plain and simple. So if your go in to continue to play this game. You need to learn to adjust and move on. The new mm and league system isn't going anywhere, neither is tanking. Tanking has been going on for years in coc, supercell, is aware of it. Tanking will go on forever in this game now and pix is aware of it.
It's why I left coc,its probley why im going to play less or just completely leave this game.
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