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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 0:38:45 GMT -5
Depends what tier you intend to stay in I guess.... Got a player ID you can post as well? Hahahaha... Funny you should mention that.. I'm all over the place, I was trying to stay in "low silver" to keep upgrading my bots to move up and be competive not just freash meat for the masses, but as the MM system keeps pulling from the higher "tiers" to fill the player slots I'm always teamed up with 6/6 geps. Attachment Deletedfighting Team Flex...hahahah Attachment Deleted
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 0:53:59 GMT -5
The one resounding, reoccurring word I keep hearing from ALMOST everyone is: More.
More hangers, more bots, more weapons, more gold, more silver... more more more more...
It was stated somewhere that gold/top level is so boring. that it's the same bigarse bots w/ bigarse plasma weapons...you just trudge to a beacon, sit on it and see how long your armor last, when it's gone just pop into another bigarse bot w/ bigarse plasma weapons and repeat...and repeat..repeat...repe...
Ya, that sound like what I want to do!!
Now this trend is following suit with the lower tiers, get this bot, get these weapons...if you want to stop losing you have to fight fire with fire, tired of gep/mags...then buy a gep and fight with mags....I'm sorry that doesn't fix squat. run hangers that are all equal? how unless your running all the same bots? Bot levels or score or points don't matter if your paired with higher/lower bots....
Sorry... this is not a rant, just a little of post.
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Post by springeb on Sept 29, 2016 5:31:51 GMT -5
If you use all five bots and have the same damage as when you use all three of your bots in the same battle, then you are doing something wrong with the extra two bots. If you can do enough damage to more than cover your repair costs with one bot, then you should typically have little trouble doing that with each of the bots you choose to drop into a battle.
Your extra bots (over three hangar slots) don't give you flexibility if they are available for the match you are currently in. If you have a long range support bot in your inventory but not in an active hangar slot while playing canyon and decide the game situation is appropriate for a long range bot, your extra bots/weapons in inventory are out of reach.
Colonel, I believe your posts are frequently against the advise of successful and experience players in the game. I enjoy reading and thinking about your ideas, but I worry that your posts could mislead other inexperienced players into a less optimal War Robots experience.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 10:40:44 GMT -5
springeb, ""Colonel, I believe your posts are frequently against the advise of successful and experience players in the game. I enjoy reading and thinking about your ideas, but I worry that your posts could mislead other inexperienced players into a less optimal War Robots experience.""
I have to say, that's about the most polite way of telling me that you think my posts are crap and to stop questioning everything and everybody. (To get on board and be an 「bum-bum」et instead of a liability to new players)
This is the difference between leaders and followers: leaders need to know, the rest blindly follow. My blind acceptance of other successful and experienced players assurances got me into a lot of trouble in other games, but my insatiable curiosity helped me debunk much of the nonsense my peers and so-called "experts" tried to cram into my head. I don't accept much of what other people tell me, People who never question will always be lied to.
If and when people decide to go with the flow, never questioning and blindly follow, doing what others tell them to do they will end up where the flow goes, which is usually downhill. Often leading to a big pile of sludge and a life of unhappiness. You'll end up doing what everyone else is doing.
I question your sincerity in trying to help me understand why I should not "rock the boat" because you don't name any successful players, and that in a by itself is a question of perspective...what is successful in this game? There is no "winner", it is a team effort and the way I am perceiving it only the (clans) are the winners... The clans control everything, the top levels, the challenges, daily missions, hourly winners, monthly winners.........
I'm sorry if my questions offend you in someway, if I challenge you to think outside the norm, if you think I'm misleading other inexperienced players.
Which by the way you make that statement, your saying "experienced players think I'm full of crap and ignore me" I love your passive/aggressiveness...
Here is what I'm being told by the "experts" : Run a five bot hanger full of level 1 Shultzs/Level 5 Thunders to farm for gold... Run a five bot hanger full of level 1 Gepards/Level 6 Magnums to farm for gold... Run a five bot hanger full of level 2 Shultzs/Level 6 Thunders to farm for gold... Run a five bot hanger full of level 2 Gepards/Level 6 Magnums to farm for gold... Run a five bot hanger full of level 4 Shultzs/Level 6 Thunders to farm for gold... Run a five bot hanger full of level 4 Gepards/Level 6 Magnums to farm for gold...
"All long range weapons suck, those people are campers and should not be allowed to play." "This is bot combat so all bots need to have knife fighting weapons" "Put all plasma weapons on your bot, run up behind a bot and push the kill button"
If I started down that road doing what everyone is telling me to do, then I would not be any better then anyone else, I would have the same bots as everyone else, the same weapons as everyone else, the same levels as everyone else. and soon I would become like everyone else, telling other players to be just like me...
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Post by Divine Thunder on Sept 29, 2016 10:59:01 GMT -5
People,
If the Col. does not want to run a 4 or 5 slot hanger, we do need to respect his wishes. It is his hanger after all.
Yes, that can potentially handicap his team but, apparently he has found that he does not need the other bots. If he is not regularly meching out, then, honestly, those bots are just so much extra baggage. If he can fight to the drop of the banner, what is the difference? Some pilots mech out early running five slots.
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Post by - Exteel 2.0 on Sept 29, 2016 11:22:58 GMT -5
Hangers, bots, slots, weapons, candy gum drops? However many you need to enjoy the game. Period.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 11:29:34 GMT -5
springeb: I think you have lost the sprite of this post and are trying to make it a personal attack against me by stating I'm misleading new players. "Your extra bots (over three hangar slots) don't give you flexibility if they are available for the match you are currently in. If you have a long range support bot in your inventory but not in an active hangar slot while playing canyon and decide the game situation is appropriate for a long range bot, your extra bots/weapons in inventory are out of reach."
I want to examine this in detail please.
When a match starts and let's go with Canyon (Springfield) if I have 3 slots of Schultz/Thunders for farming I'm screwed anyway and I don't start the game. It's exactly the same if I have a 5 hanger with 3 Patton/Spirals, Natasha Nori「man juice」/Kang and carnage/Treb....I wouldn't play that game.. What about the players that have 5 Cossack's w/Tarans, where is their "long range ability"? What about the 5 Fujin's, where is their mobility and speed? We can do this all day and all night...
You talk about keeping flexibility in my hanger... is not 1 short, 1 med, 1 long flexibility? I can run 3 Patton's, 3 Cossack's, 3 Natasha's if I want to...isn't this game that I have downloaded on my tablet about what and how I want to play vs what you or other experts think I should play?
Why should I use 2 other bots as a crutch to fall back on? Let's do some quick math please. 10 min game / 5 bots = 2 min per bot. 10 min game / 3 bots = 3.3 min per bot Considering most game last 5 min or less. 5 min game / 5 bots = 1 min per bot (or) 2.5 bots @ 2 per min.. 5 min game / 3 bots = 1.6 min per bot (or) 2 bots @ 3.3 bots per min..
To use your own words from the last post, if any players are burning through 1 bot every 60 seconds. (then you are doing something wrong with the extra two bots) And just to ease your mind think about this for just a second, and anyone reading this post and cares about it..
At the end of your matches.....how many bots did you use? how many is left over? if the matchmaking system only cares about your strongest bot then make all your bots strong right....if your only using 3 in a game/4 in a game why do you need that fifth slot? the same can be said for the fourth slot if you are using only three bots per game. if your not wining by your third bot, throwing in two more is not going to change anything, read the threads about all the players throwing all five bots into a game making over 1 million points of damage, 14 beacon's and still losing the game..
Why is everyone so stuck on the five bot hanger? no one yet has given me any good reason for it yet, other than "it's what we do" or "because it's there"
Please stay on the original post: How many hangers do you need?
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 11:33:05 GMT -5
Hangers, bots, slots, weapons, candy gum drops? However many you need to enjoy the game. Period. YES.... Finally a GREAT, SUPER answer!!!! THANK YOU!
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Post by petevb on Sept 29, 2016 12:29:58 GMT -5
It was stated somewhere that gold/top level is so boring. that it's the same bigarse bots w/ bigarse plasma weapons...you just trudge to a beacon, sit on it and see how long your armor last, when it's gone just pop into another bigarse bot w/ bigarse plasma weapons and repeat...and repeat..repeat...repe... I play in Top almost exclusively these days running a 5 slot maxed hanger. There is no question that there are some boring games. There is also no question, however, that the most exiting, best games I've had have all come in Top tier. For me the mental challenge, speed and intensity are all exponentially greater in Top tier playing with and against other top players. I do miss playing my Rogs and Boas, bots that were both fun and effective in lower tiers. However other factors more than make up for their loss. So while some might think of Top tier as "boring" I certainly do not. And I suspect that most of the few that do have not been very successful adapting to Top tier play. My concern with your single slot strategy is that it may make you a worse player in the long run, not a better one. It's fairly easy to both stay alive and do damage, even in Top tier. Get a Hydra Fujin and you can happily lob rockets all day long without dying. Get six or even two players doing that, however, and you'll lose quickly. Your current tactics might work now, but as you move up winning will require dying, and in fact figuring out exactly how aggressive to be, when push and when to sacrifice becomes key to the game. So while you may be learning one set of skills now, realize that you'll need to learn an entirely different one if you ever decide to graduate up, and you may be picking up bad habits now that you'll need to unlearn...
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 29, 2016 14:11:29 GMT -5
petevb. That is a very well rounded response, and I would be remiss for not listening to such wise words. Yes, you could be very correct, most likely you are. Since I am not even close to the top, I have no experiance in thoese levels to even begin to debate it with you. Currently I can honestly say I don't think I'm picking up "bad" hadits yet. Thank you for your insight.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 16:12:35 GMT -5
I need/want 3 hangars that I can select during the countdown phase of MM.
1. A beacon capping hangar with light bots - 2-3 Tri-Mag Geps, 1-2 Thunder Schutze, and 1 Taran or Orkan Cossack. Maybe the occasional Stalker
2. A medium hangar comprised of various combos of medium bots - Patton, Boa, Golem, Rog, Carnage. Maybe a Galahad or Fujin in the future. No Vits, dont like the setup. Knifing, support, and medium range roles.
3. A heavy hangar with combos of Rhino, Leo, Griffin, and Natasha. No Rajin or Lancelot - wont say never, but dont care for the hardpoint setup. Duties Mid-range with some longer range capacity, and close combat, but at greater lengths than with mediums.
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Post by nodalwars on Sept 29, 2016 16:39:59 GMT -5
I never thought of opening the last hangar because I play in the silver area with Mediums at 8/8 or so and rarely lose all 4. If I lose all 4 it is typically because my side is missing a few players, which seems to happen way too often. I see little use in a 5th except to allow myself to zerg rush each and every game. If you play with some thought, and Rhinos do not take much thought, then you can do some damage. Use you advantages and protect your weak spots. The Geps are annoying but when I trick them to come in close they die really quick against most other bots when I'm armed with Pins. Are they further out? Use CRV's. With the new shieldbots no robot is "perfect" for all situations. No Hangar is "perfect" for any map and any situation. Do what is best for you and what works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 17:35:42 GMT -5
I waited till I had been a lvl30 for quite a while. Should have done it a lot earlier. Funny sometimes I only use 2 bots in a game, now that I have 5, but maybe its the confidence of knowing. It is very, very rare that I dont finish battles now. Heck some finish in the 3 minute range. Sometimes its hard and fast, and you do need that 5 bot. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Then you depend solely on your team mates after you are gone.
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Post by petevb on Sept 29, 2016 17:42:55 GMT -5
If the goal is to maximize win percentage and help your team as much as possible then 5 slots is an imperative, particularly in higher tiers. The high level goal against tough competition is to mech out exactly as the beacon bar gets to zero. Obviously I'm not going to throw bots away to accomplish this, but if I lose a game where I haven't gone through my entire hanger then I've done something wrong- clearly I hung back conserving a bot when I could have been forwards pressing or defending a beacon.
In lower tiers the need for five slots is less glaring- bots are generally slower and do less damage overall, so they last longer. Even there, however, more slots can dramatically improve win percentage with different bots and play styles.
Fast brawlers are typically the most effective bots in the game. A Plasma Rhino or Galahad for example is going to get to the battle quickly and do lots of damage once there- it's ideal for taking and holding territory, which is what the game is about in the end. Unfortunately rushing into battle is not a recipe for a long healthy life, so it will die quickly if used in this way- around 1.5 minutes average life in a close game on a Top tier battlefield.
A mid range bot like a Russian Death Button Griffin or Trident Fury stays further from the front line so it tends to live longer- around 3-4 minutes if played correctly. However its position and lower firepower mean it can't control beacons and territory nearly as effectively. A long range sniper meanwhile (mounting trebs, etc) is another step down in terms of damage and beacon control. It plays a defensive rather than offensive role, but it can live longer still.
Because offense is required to win and fast brawlers are most effective at it you'd ideally want lots of them. Unfortunately even with 5 slots running 5 bots aggressively at 1.5 minutes a pop is a recipe for meching out, which is one reason (beyond hanger versatility) I recommend running one mid-range bot. However with 4 slots the math gets more difficult, and bots must either be played more conservatively or more range (less effective) used to go the distance.
If you're losing games without going through your full hanger you need to question your bots and tactics. Adding more fast brawlers and playing more aggressively should let you pull more games out. When you switch to that style, however, you'll find yourself limited by the number and type of bots in your hanger.
Personally I'd have an 8+ slot hanger if I could. I could easily go through 6-7 bots during a tough match, while the extra slots would give me more options for which bot to drop to deal with specific tactical situations. Currently I have 15 maxed bots and nearly all of them have a role they are ideal for, but I don't get to play many of them because they're too specialized.
$.02
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Post by Muhlakai on Sept 29, 2016 18:10:56 GMT -5
I've got four slots and I'm working on opening the 5th. Right now I'm playing, at the highest, low silver with my 4/6 bots. There's only two models (two copies each) in my hangar right now, and I'm only considering adding a third because many of the games I lose I lose because I can't drive fast enough to cap beacons when our team is behind.
I absolutely need that 5th hangar.
I run quadmag Pattons and thunder orkan Boas. These are both front-line fighters, but they're also specialized differently. The Boa is absolutely my choice if I can isolate one bot at a time, if there are maggeps trying to run my team down (and, often, isolating us), or if there's a pesky bot causing problems for my team (BritBot, well-driven Leo, etc.) and I want to intentionally hunt him down. The Patton is my choice if I need sustained fire, like if I expect to face multiple bots simultaneously or in short succession. With either bot there are times when I recognize that what my team most needs is for me to drive my bot with guns blazing directly into the red maw of death. I could certainly survive by being more cautious, but when Red is about to rout, or can be pushed back from a strong field position, or back into their own base then the sacrifice of that bot is absolutely necessary. ...but that often isn't enough.
You see, in addition, I often score the most damage. It's actually really rare that I don't score in at least the top two spots. If I let myself get meched out in a sacrifice, then not only would I not be gaining as much Au, but my team would also be less likely to win. On average I would say that I lose 1-2 bots from damage in most games and sacrifice a bot at least 33% of the time. When my opponents are better I'm more likely to lose 2-3 or even sacrifice two bots! If those sacrifices save 2-3 allied bots I'm surely gaining, but if I get meched out then those gained bots will probably be lost again. I don't win every game where I survive, but I win close to 0% when I get meched out.
So there's at least one instance where the answer to your question is "as many as they'll let me have." After all, the worst situation I can be in is deciding whether I want to protect my Au or protect the team, especially when the answer could be 'both.'
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WαLL-Σ
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Post by WαLL-Σ on Sept 29, 2016 18:25:06 GMT -5
Perfect example of why you need as many bots as you can get in high level play. Allows you to play aggressively and more freedom to "waste" perfectly playable bots (see 7:04 mark) for a more important objective.
I never got out of a top tier match thinking I didn't need all my hangar slots. Rather the opposite - always wished I had one or two more slots for one or more reasons.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 30, 2016 15:45:37 GMT -5
I need/want 3 hangars that I can select during the countdown phase of MM. 1. A beacon capping hangar with light bots - 2-3 Tri-Mag Geps, 1-2 Thunder Schutze, and 1 Taran or Orkan Cossack. Maybe the occasional Stalker 2. A medium hangar comprised of various combos of medium bots - Patton, Boa, Golem, Rog, Carnage. Maybe a Galahad or Fujin in the future. No Vits, dont like the setup. Knifing, support, and medium range roles. 3. A heavy hangar with combos of Rhino, Leo, Griffin, and Natasha. No Rajin or Lancelot - wont say never, but dont care for the hardpoint setup. Duties Mid-range with some longer range capacity, and close combat, but at greater lengths than with mediums. I think I have missed something..... I do have three hangers like you a light, med and mixed since I don't have any heavys yet.. but when I start the countdown phase I only have the three bots in my main hanger?? how do you switch hangers??
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 30, 2016 16:00:02 GMT -5
@ petevb , If the goal is to maximize win percentage and help your team as much as possible then 5 slots is an imperative, particularly in higher tiers. The high level goal against tough competition is to mech out exactly as the beacon bar gets to zero. Obviously I'm not going to throw bots away to accomplish this, but if I lose a game where I haven't gone through my entire hanger then I've done something wrong- clearly I hung back conserving a bot when I could have been forwards pressing or defending a beacon. (Really? a five bot hanger player should be on their 5th bot basically at the 2 min warning....I understand your obviously not going to throw bots away to accomplish this but to say that you have done something wrong is completely confusing me...When I'm down to one bot and that 2 min warning hits and the red team has 4 beacons and a full 5 or 6 bots left, I'm sorry I'm not going to sacrifice my last bot for a few points, now if I'm the last on my team, we have three beacon and they have two bots left...sure I'll jump in.. a three bot hanger can acomplish the same thing)
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 30, 2016 16:12:46 GMT -5
Perfect example of why you need as many bots as you can get in high level play. Allows you to play aggressively and more freedom to "waste" perfectly playable bots (see 7:04 mark) for a more important objective. I never got out of a top tier match thinking I didn't need all my hangar slots. Rather the opposite - always wished I had one or two more slots for one or more reasons. I don't get the video... Clearly that clan player is at the top of his game, the second place guy is in the 100,000 range...all the red team is in the 100,000 range.. 14 kills to 2 kills or 4 kills....... 1.8 million to 100, 000.... Thats like "Gold tier clubbing" hehehehe strayed, @smokemyweed have done over a million points and still lost and maybe won a few that high....and at thoese odds I'm sure.. I love your statement "Allows you to play aggressively and more freedom to "waste" perfectly playable bots (see 7:04 mark) for a more important objective."Don't get me wrong, the last 3/4 post have been great!! Talking about why you need more hangers!!!! it's super, thank you.. but for everybody wanting more hanger slots, why not just open your entire hanger and have access to all your bots? Like you said "always wished I had one or two more slots for one or more reasons."
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Post by Divine Thunder on Sept 30, 2016 16:20:01 GMT -5
Col.
Ben Franklin once said with regards to being called an Englishman, ...
"It is like a ox being called a bull, 'Thanks for the complement, but I would rather have restored what is rightfully mine.'"
Thanks for the complement by placing me in the one million group. But facts are facts, i average somewhere in the 400,000 range and my highest is around 850,000 and that was a pure accident.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 30, 2016 16:30:39 GMT -5
Col. Ben Franklin once said with regards to being called an Englishman, ... "It is like a ox being called a bull, 'Thanks for the complement, but I would rather have restored what is rightfully mine.'" Thanks for the complement by placing me in the one million group. But facts are facts, i average somewhere in the 400,000 range and my highest is around 850,000 and that was a pure accident. my apologizies sir: I thought you, like the others had broken the 1 mill mark.. So sorry, I resend my statement with regards to you sir.
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Post by Strayed on Sept 30, 2016 16:37:06 GMT -5
Blackjack, Spring, I've reset your karma counts because of the karma war you had going on.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Sept 30, 2016 16:39:32 GMT -5
Blackjack, Spring, I've reset your karma counts because of the karma war you had going on. Thank you sir. I will post on your thread.. Karma?
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Post by Divine Thunder on Sept 30, 2016 16:59:58 GMT -5
No offense taken. Just wanted to set the record straight.
Peace.
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Post by petevb on Sept 30, 2016 17:13:24 GMT -5
(Really? a five bot hanger player should be on their 5th bot basically at the 2 min warning....I understand your obviously not going to throw bots away to accomplish this but to say that you have done something wrong is completely confusing me...When I'm down to one bot and that 2 min warning hits and the red team has 4 beacons and a full 5 or 6 bots left, I'm sorry I'm not going to sacrifice my last bot for a few points, now if I'm the last on my team, we have three beacon and they have two bots left...sure I'll jump in.. a three bot hanger can acomplish the same thing) I'm talking about squeezing every bit of potential out of every bot I have. If I end up losing with bots on the shelf I have clearly failed to use their full potential. Ditto if I mech out early. A three bot hanger simply has much less potential. As far as giving up I don't consider it. I'm going to do everything I can to win, even if the situation appears hopeless. It's a matter of principle, but in my experience it's also a mindset that helps get the win percentage up...
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Post by Muhlakai on Sept 30, 2016 21:24:35 GMT -5
but for everybody wanting more hanger slots, why not just open your entire hanger and have access to all your bots? Like you said "always wished I had one or two more slots for one or more reasons."That's exactly what I said I'm trying to do. Perhaps I misunderstand?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 0:17:45 GMT -5
blackjackA farmer hangar exists for the soul purpose of gaining gold with little effort.It has nothing to do with higher level gameplay. As for hangar slots,if you're the kind of person that can win games with one and done, so be it.But the biggest purpose of having more slots is flexibility.Yes, there are boring players that have 5x the same bot and try to make that one bot do everything, but in most cases, those players can be turned on their head fairly easily with a little thought. I'm saving for my 5th slot at the moment, currently my hangar consists of: Hit and run/ Capper: Gepard: 3x Aphid Ambush : Patton: 4x Sura F Pinata Brawler: Golem: Thunder/Taran/Magnum Support: Golem:Trident/Tulumbas/CRV Pin I can go the whole match in any of these bots, but when I do that, I often find myself having to be picky about my engagements with the enemy. Each bot has a role, and I play them in accordance to the players on the field. I won't try to deal with Stalkers and gepards with my Aphids, just as I won't try to walk into the line of fire of a group of reds with my Pinatas. Buy your slots at your leisure, but having more bots with more jobs is always better than trying to play a hail mary every match.
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Post by - Exteel 2.0 on Oct 1, 2016 0:57:36 GMT -5
One. I'll play this forum game a bit, but the answer is one.
You NEED 1 bot. You NEED 1 hanger slot. To literally participate in the game.
Theoretically you need TWO hanger slots; as two of the beginning tasks are to buy a second slot and another bot.
Thats it. Start another thread for subjective discussion.
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Post by Orukal on Oct 1, 2016 12:07:26 GMT -5
I, myself, prefer a full hangar. I'm here to tank some bots so if I'm getting my butt kicked, I want to be able to stay in the fight. I hang around until the match is over so I can check out my teammates and competition and I don't like watching the battle from the sidelines. I would say a majority of my fights find me on my third bot when it finishes. In second is probably a close race between my second and fourth. Using all five would be third. Next, I think I'd have to pick meching out followed closely by using one bot the whole game. I actually don't like ending on my first bot because it feels like I didn't do enough. As though I could have been more aggressive, regardless of how my ranking ended up. Just my personal preference. I do, however, find myself disappointed when others mech out and I later find that they only have a three bot hangar. Just their personal preference as well, so I get over it by the end of the next heartbeat. The matches are quick and the next one is only seconds away.
I did read one noticeable difference in our strategies, Colonel, and it very well could be that I'm the odd ball out of the norm with regards to it. You mentioned that there are times that you bail on a map because it doesn't fit your hangar. I prefer to stick it out from "To Battle" to "Win/Lose." Again, my preference, but I think that's an important factor in having a difficult time (At times) in relating to your strategic choices. In the end, once again, it's your/my choice and that's all that really matters. I'm pretty confident that you would outlast me in most fights, anyway. I can be a bit reckless, which is probably why I'm content to stick it out at the 4/7, all AG med bot level.
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Post by colonelblackjack on Oct 1, 2016 14:42:48 GMT -5
COOL......
Everyone has some great points...
Well Spoken like true players!
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