[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 19, 2016 12:20:37 GMT -5
My top peeve is the matchmaking, but I think enough ink has been spilled over that, so I'll focus on something else, the overemphasis on kills and damage.
I think like 95% of matches I've played in have been decided by the beacons, not by completely eliminating the other team's robots. So, if it were up to me, the game would reward gold to the top 3 beacon getters in such matches with the secondary bonus for the one player who inflicted the most damage. The top 3 inflicters of damage should be rewarded only in matches won by eliminating the other side's robots. This would merely be giving credit for the match win where credit is due. The beacon points could also have bonuses for how far the beacon lies in enemy territory, whether or not it was hostile, how close it was to enemy robots, and how much it contributed to the team's beacon lead (i.e., getting the 3rd should worth more than the 5th).
Also, any remaining whining over kill stealing could also easily be addressed by dividing up kills proportional to the amount of damage players caused to the killed robot, awarding more points for damage caused near a beacon (more if the player inflicting the damage is the one near the beacon), and with only a small bonus to the player who got in the final shot. If a player damages a camper away from the beacon and the camper then limps off and gets finished off by somebody else, the first player should get the lion's share of the reward for that. The small kill shot bonus could be increased if the team wins by eliminating the other side.
Anyway, I think that ought to focus most players on what they ought to be doing.
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Post by Orukal on Oct 20, 2016 0:01:54 GMT -5
I'd like to take that one step further, but also simpler. I'd like to see a top 3 in both damage and beacons. It's only 4 additional gold given out per match and it might influence a small handful to spend some real money on the game in order to cash in (Which is Pix's goal anyway) on more fights. Plus, it'll increase incentive to actually cap beacons, and don't we all want that. Forget beacon bonuses for the assorted criteria.
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Post by Strayed on Oct 20, 2016 0:08:20 GMT -5
My criticism is that while capping beacons is a sign of skill, capping beacons themselves does not take all that much skill.
Getting top damage is harder to do and more skillful, thus, it is more deserving of to get gold for it.
A better way to incentivize beacon capping, would be to put in a more descriptive and accurate tutorial into the game, explaining mm levels and ranking, beacon bars, importance of beacons, effective setups, etc. Let the noob have a taste of power as well. Put him into an AI match where he is piloting a maxed pdb griff.
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Post by Orukal on Oct 20, 2016 0:17:21 GMT -5
For that matter, just imagine how much mileage they could get out of adding, "90% of matches are decided by capturing beacons, not by destroying all of the enemy robots." to the fight load screen text box.
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Post by Omgtakebeacons on Oct 20, 2016 7:27:56 GMT -5
A bit nonsense. You will get kamikaze pilots that cap 3 4 beacons for gold and leave the game. The whole thing behind damage is to kill before enemy can take a beacon. I often damage enemies till 10% let them get a beacon white an recap it just for the 5 gold. But a split of gold when both have same number of caps will be more fair than the coinflip right now.
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Post by Kinetic1 on Oct 20, 2016 7:32:27 GMT -5
Adriannnn said that they should put gold coins at each beacon and more for the center ones, haha!
While that's a hilarious idea, it's a damn good one!
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Post by SlowReflexes on Oct 20, 2016 9:44:50 GMT -5
A bit nonsense. You will get kamikaze pilots that cap 3 4 beacons for gold and leave the game. The whole thing behind damage is to kill before enemy can take a beacon. I often damage enemies till 10% let them get a beacon white an recap it just for the 5 gold. But a split of gold when both have same number of caps will be more fair than the coinflip right now. People already do that - cap several beacons and quit. Apparently hoping that their team holds on and wins and they get the gold for beacons, for a few seconds work. A split for ties would be nice. That 'most damage, tied for beacons, 5 gold ' meme describes my life.  Letting crippled enemies cap (turn white, anyway) beacons right in front of me so I can kill them and retake feels really sleazy, but I'm still tempted to start doing it. |
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Post by Orukal on Oct 20, 2016 12:50:29 GMT -5
I often damage enemies till 10% let them get a beacon white an recap it just for the 5 gold. Quit telling my secrets. (: |
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
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Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
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Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 20, 2016 13:42:11 GMT -5
A bit nonsense. You will get kamikaze pilots that cap 3 4 beacons for gold and leave the game. That could be addressed by a gold penalty for leaving games (which is already a good idea on its own merits, as many players leave simply after seeing the map, unbalancing the game further than matchmaking and gold farming already do). This was addressed in my proposal by making damage worth more when near a beacon. Right now, damage away from a beacon is awarded the same as damage that saves or wins a beacon. I do think strayed's tutorial idea would also be helpful, but right now, both the fun and the money incentives are set up for people to fight anywhere and everywhere, particularly against weak and damaged opponents, and hope that some of their teammates take on beacon capturing so that their damage ends up worth gold (particularly in the numerous 1-sided matches where nothing the player does will make much of a difference). People who realize this will just ignore any tutorial. Taking a neutral or undefended beacon doesn't take much skill, but it still has value to the team than damage to a robot nowhere near a beacon (and that only takes skill if the opponent is dangerous). It does take awareness and skill to take one behind enemy lines. It takes a lot of skill (and help) to take a contested one, and this is all covered by the different beacon bonuses. |
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Post by Orukal on Oct 20, 2016 21:57:13 GMT -5
This was addressed in my proposal by making damage worth more when near a beacon. Right now, damage away from a beacon is awarded the same as damage that saves or wins a beacon. I'd have to disagree with this one. At its core, it's a simple game. No need to muck it up by having a Griffin break out a yard stick to get maximum points. People like us make it more complicated than it needs to be.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 16:53:48 GMT -5
Whats worth more killin a few bots, or takin a piece of many - you should be able to figure it out. I do think kills should have some influence though. Beacons only - no point. Take a guy who get 1 beacon, but does 750k worth damage - figure it out!
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Post by zoamelgustar on Oct 23, 2016 8:31:13 GMT -5
Maybe something like in the game MAG. All "points" scored near objectives are worth more points. Maybe 1.5x for the two side beacons opposite spawns and 2x for center beacon. Not that it really works all that well with damage. Maybe a multiplier, more robots on center beacon makes the domination bar go down faster.
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Post by Muhlakai on Oct 23, 2016 8:40:30 GMT -5
More robots DO cap faster. Nothing stops them from getting a new beacon after snagging the first. Why penalize a beacon assault by shorting their time simply because there are more defenders?
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Post by zoamelgustar on Oct 23, 2016 12:08:54 GMT -5
I understand more robots cap faster, what I'm suggesting is that more robots on said beacon will increase the rate at which the domination bar decreases. Obviously center beacon would be ideal so people don't camp home beacon.
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Post by Muhlakai on Oct 23, 2016 15:53:22 GMT -5
Oh, I caught the difference. My point is that if that crowd of bots wants the bar to move faster they should move together to another beacon. Making the bar move faster simply because defenders are present penalizes attempts to recap.
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Post by Muhlakai on Oct 23, 2016 16:13:16 GMT -5
More to the OP, this just happened and made me feel a bit cheated...  |
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denzark
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Post by denzark on Oct 23, 2016 17:38:21 GMT -5
I think there should be more awarded for beacon capture and on your statistics page beacon captured per game (kills are less relevant than damage).
I do think damage is important and awarded correctly.
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Post by Deadalready on Oct 24, 2016 9:52:22 GMT -5
Maybe the longer beacon stays under team control the more silver it's worth, maybe a bonus for breaking the hold on a beacon.
I don't see Pixonic changing the system as is though, they have an incentive to keep damage as the winning mark as it encourages high DPS weapons.
Side note: I think it would really be nice to be awarded gold/half gold on the losing team. Being MVP on a camping/afk team is pretty frustrating.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 13:25:45 GMT -5
Grab a beacon at the very beginning of battle, then fight, and go from there.
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Post by Orukal on Oct 25, 2016 3:40:25 GMT -5
K.I.S.S. No need to make it complicated.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
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Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 25, 2016 7:41:48 GMT -5
Grab a beacon at the very beginning of battle, then fight, and go from there. That's a recipe for ending up 2nd or 3rd in beacons. This is worthless on the scoresheet right now, and my point is that it shouldn't be. If you're in a knife-fighter, you're never going to keep up with the faster bots in terms of beacons, but every beacon you do grab is tremendous and is worth something more than zero to the team effort. |
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 25, 2016 7:51:48 GMT -5
Orukal: "I'd have to disagree with this one. At its core, it's a simple game. No need to muck it up by having a Griffin break out a yard stick to get maximum points. People like us make it more complicated than it needs to be. " Quarterbacks don't need to understand the complicated QB rating formula. They just do what the team needs to win, and the formula will rate them a lot more accurately than a simpler formula than, say, win/loss or the ratio of touchdowns to interceptions. The same would go here. All a player needs to do to maximize their bonus is, "Help your team win." That's not really true now. A knife-fighter who realizes they're the closest bot to an uncontested beacon is far better off staying in the fray and doing damage, hoping some other bot on their team takes it. |
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 25, 2016 11:44:52 GMT -5
Just lost a match in Springfield against a team where one of the top 3 in damage was a Patton with 4 Noricums. The only reason we lost is that we had TWO bots with Noricums camping at the Industrial beacon. I took center beacon in a Boa against three opponents. I'm pretty sure I held it long enough for reinforcements to arrive, but none ever came.
As far as I understand it, the only reason anyone uses a Noricum at all is that damage is overly rewarded with gold (and silver). Heck, if you lose because of beacons and all you did was damage, you were one of the reasons your team lost. I'd say that, on a team that losing due to beacons, the only players that deserve any silver are ones that did take beacons.
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Post by player1hasleft on Oct 25, 2016 15:57:10 GMT -5
I think we should have buttons that signals teammates that support is needed at your location. It should be located close to the special ability button.
Once that button is pressed your allies will get notifications to press/hold/stay.
Edit: Springfield map should be revised quickly...
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Post by Prowler on Oct 25, 2016 19:52:28 GMT -5
I understand more robots cap faster, what I'm suggesting is that more robots on said beacon will increase the rate at which the domination bar decreases. Obviously center beacon would be ideal so people don't camp home beacon. I almost never go for or fight over the center beacon. you can have it I will take the other 4. so rewarding more for a certain beacon is unfair all beacons count.
I would like to see who caps beacons during a game just like kills rather that the 3 lines of text we have now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 21:21:20 GMT -5
Just lost a match in Springfield against a team where one of the top 3 in damage was a Patton with 4 Noricums. The only reason we lost is that we had TWO bots with Noricums camping at the Industrial beacon. I took center beacon in a Boa against three opponents. I'm pretty sure I held it long enough for reinforcements to arrive, but none ever came. As far as I understand it, the only reason anyone uses a Noricum at all is that damage is overly rewarded with gold (and silver). Heck, if you lose because of beacons and all you did was damage, you were one of the reasons your team lost. I'd say that, on a team that losing due to beacons, the only players that deserve any silver are ones that did take beacons. Losing to a team, where the top player was a 4 Noricum Patton is pretty said. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 21:27:15 GMT -5
That's a recipe for ending up 2nd or 3rd in beacons. This is worthless on the scoresheet right now, and my point is that it shouldn't be. If you're in a knife-fighter, you're never going to keep up with the faster bots in terms of beacons, but every beacon you do grab is tremendous and is worth something more than zero to the team effort. Dude you are missing the point! Im saying grab a beacon at the beginning, dont wait. Then as you are fighting grab some more. You fight, you do your damage, you kill some BGs. Beacons are the most important thing, followed by damage. Sounds like all you care about is being 1st in gold. 2n and 3rd in beacons, if your teams wins is likely to still get you gold - not always, but on average. If thats not good enough, buy some gold. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 21:30:49 GMT -5
That's a recipe for ending up 2nd or 3rd in beacons. This is worthless on the scoresheet right now, and my point is that it shouldn't be. If you're in a knife-fighter, you're never going to keep up with the faster bots in terms of beacons, but every beacon you do grab is tremendous and is worth something more than zero to the team effort. Dude you are missing the point! Im saying grab a beacon at the beginning, dont wait. Then as you are fighting grab some more. You fight, you do your damage, you kill some BGs. Beacons are the most important thing, followed by damage. Sounds like all you care about is being 1st in gold. 2n and 3rd in beacons, if your teams wins is likely to still get you gold - not always, but on average. If thats not good enough, buy some gold. BTW - This is just some friendly advice, pick a new avatar. You have a pic of you and your entire family out there. Not a good thing in todays day and age. TMI! Admins dont even like some putting their age out - under 18 members. Just saying, its something to consider. |
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Post by Ron Gaul on Oct 25, 2016 23:00:52 GMT -5
Problem: players focus too often on damage and leave beacons untouched. Resulting in many matches lost when one team or the other neglects to cap or recap beacons.
The simplest solution, as I see it, would be to award Au as follows:
Damage, 1st place - 5 Au
Damage, 2nd place - 3 Au
Damage, 3rd place - 1 Au
Beacons, 1st place - 5 Au
Beacons, 2nd place - 3 Au
Beacons, 3rd place - 1 Au
Now, if a player deals the most damage AND caps the most beacons on his team, he is awarded an additional 5 Au. Meaning, beating the $&#%! out of enemy bots is great and all that, but if you also grab the most beacons on your team, you not only get 5 Au for damage and 5 Au for beacons; you also get 5 more Au for greatest team contribution. Thus, you get 50% more Au for carrying your team. In the event you deal the most damage but tie for most beacons, the bonus 5 Au are split 3/2 in favor of the top-damage player.
This system factors in increased rewards for beach capping, but it helps discourage players from simply stacking their lineup with runners. By the same token it also encourages the use of at least one fast(er) bot rather than nothing but heavy brawlers or Fury snipers. Because you might get five Au for most beacons, or five Au for most damage, but if you can do both you get both rewards plus half.
I think that would strike a good balance. Thoughts?
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Post by Orukal on Oct 25, 2016 23:25:51 GMT -5
Im saying grab a beacon at the beginning, dont wait. Then as you are fighting grab some more. You fight, you do your damage, you kill some BGs. Fire and displace. Fire and displace. Eventually, you'll run upon a beacon. Grab it. Fire and displace. |
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