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Post by whatttupG on Feb 13, 2017 14:35:17 GMT -5
So please excuse me in advance if I did not get the memo or posted in the wrong place but is it not possible to play lower bots anymore with the new MM ? My top hangar are 8/8 s more or less (9/8, and 6/7 as well) but when i m trying to play with my lower lvl bots (4/6 & 2/4s ) I m still getting the same enemies as in my top hangar. That makes me really sad... I dont wanna level them all up to be competitive, but there has to be a way to play them all or am I wrong? In my opinion, correct. Lower bots are no longer part of the game once you level up the ladder. I tried too, so this isn't some long winded do 50 of this or calculate your average ELO like that theory. I have 4 Cossack that used to work for capping and since 2.5, spawning a Cossack is just dumb. First your team tries to shoot you, then you run to a beacon and after easily getting it.. the only second beacon left is center. (Shenzen, talking to you baby). So you can sit there and die, hop to center and die, or eject and die I guess. You get the picture... if one beacon in 30 sec is your thing, that still works... but you aren't gonna win anything. It takes at least 3 from what I see to have a shot at that 5 gold.. and you gotta win damage for that 5 gold.. trying to make either of those happen in a grasshopper is a waste of time. They fold in two shots and once they (the beacons) turn colors, you're done capping because you sure as heck aren't gonna peel red off one and flip it. At least trolling yamantau in a Gareth gives you a sliver chance at 5 for beacons because it's sometimes easy to bag 3 or 4. In something "lower" like a Cossack or Destrier, no way... and I don't mean dumb and dumber one in a million now way.. I mean 0 for infinity no way.. and yeah, pretty sure Gareth isn't remotely a lower bot either so.. OK, here's my memo.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 13, 2017 15:02:22 GMT -5
I partly disagree, at least about the Cossack. I've been having a blast with an Orkan Cossack in my 6/7 hangar on my iOS account. It's been the keypin to getting MoC more often than not, and I can kill with it. Find a heavy brawler and escort inside of 300 m, concentrate fire and flank as much as possible. Especially effective against shield brawlers, as they can either block your damage or your buddy's heavy damage, and KF bots tend to ignore the "lowly" Cossack anyways. I'm a backstabbing rogue with a rocket pod... never turn your back on an insane (-ly skilled) Cossack pilot.
MRS and snipers will still target you for squishy kills, so staying in cover is essential, don't get all hoppy across the landscape or you'll get picked off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 16:00:13 GMT -5
I'm still using a thunder Schultz. Usually take the long way everywhere(at 50kmph it isn't that long of a way), harass anything boa sized or larger at any range. It's amazing how many people will abandon their post to chase you, or follow you into an obvious ambush. Loading a full thunder(5) on a flank will still kill anything not named Raijin or Leo.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 18:33:28 GMT -5
The new MM made the vast quantity of bronze and silver tier stuff I levelled totally worthless. I sorely regret pretty much everything I invested in. Just cleared out my inventory last week... something like 30 bots went up in smoke. What a waste of my upgrade queue and silver.
The new model is simple: run cossacks & level end-game worthy weapons in the background. Once you hit heavies, run heavies using those levelled weapons. The only mid-game that exists now is an illusion created by player ignorance and poor decision-making.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 13, 2017 21:39:07 GMT -5
I would partly concede on Cossack, but once you can afford something like a Gareth why would you bother with the hopper?
Is it faster with the jump? Can you level it way up and out run everything... is it the SR-71 of bots?
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Post by Muhlakai on Feb 14, 2017 0:41:02 GMT -5
I sorely regret pretty much everything I invested in. Just cleared out my inventory last week... something like 30 bots went up in smoke. What a waste of my upgrade queue and silver. Selling old equipment right now is extremely premature. The new update should be out in a week or two and is supposed to change the landscape of the meta game. You probably just wasted all of that time by selling everything off just before leagues are introduced.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 1:06:58 GMT -5
I sorely regret pretty much everything I invested in. Just cleared out my inventory last week... something like 30 bots went up in smoke. What a waste of my upgrade queue and silver. Selling old equipment right now is extremely premature. The new update should be out in a week or two and is supposed to change the landscape of the meta game. You probably just wasted all of that time by selling everything off just before leagues are introduced. Mayhaps. But its far more likely that leagues are just rating based with an incremental reward structure to provide incentive to upgrade/progress. In any case, I just got tired of scrolling through mech after mech that I couldn't really use.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 1:07:52 GMT -5
" Muhlakai" The only thing leagues will change is reward distribution by replacing the "pilot of" rewards currently only available to tankers, dedicated TT, or shared accounts, as pix has already stated it will not change anything MM wise.
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Post by Muhlakai on Feb 14, 2017 8:48:15 GMT -5
" Muhlakai" The only thing leagues will change is reward distribution by replacing the "pilot of" rewards currently only available to tankers, dedicated TT, or shared accounts, as pix has already stated it will not change anything MM wise. Fair enough, but the next update is also supposed to give us visibility of our MM score. For the first time ever we'll have a better sense of exactly how the MM is placing us. All of those "useless" bots could become shims to prop us slightly up or down to fit exactly within certain MM "power brackets." Even if there's no hard bracket line the ability to intentionally drop yourself by changing your damage potential will give us actual feedback in almost-real-time. It may not change your MM, per se, but it'll let you push yourself towards exactly the league rewards that you think will benefit you most.
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Post by gr3ygh05t on Feb 14, 2017 13:40:58 GMT -5
Ok I did some testing of my own and I need some testers to confirm. It appears that the new lower level is capped at Lv 6 for Bots and Lv 5 weapons at 50% or lower wins. If you exceed any of these parameters Yamantau will spawn, otherwise it won't. There is no clear way to determine of there is a separation for Gold and Silver tiers so I can't figure out how to test that.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 14, 2017 14:03:42 GMT -5
Ok I did some testing of my own and I need some testers to confirm. It appears that the new lower level is capped at Lv 6 for Bots and Lv 5 weapons at 50% or lower wins. If you exceed any of these parameters Yamantau will spawn, otherwise it won't. There is no clear way to determine of there is a separation for Gold and Silver tiers so I can't figure out how to test that. Hi gr3yghost. I don't think equip or bots will factor in. They arent tiering on hangars anymore- they are using avg damage for MM. I am starting to track this to see what the matches look like and it is definitely the case. I haven't tried to figure out when yam starts appearing, but I doubt that is based on hangars given this is not factored into anything else now. It is most likely avg damage lvl for that as well.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 14, 2017 14:31:23 GMT -5
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Post by gr3ygh05t on Feb 14, 2017 14:48:00 GMT -5
Ok I did some testing of my own and I need some testers to confirm. It appears that the new lower level is capped at Lv 6 for Bots and Lv 5 weapons at 50% or lower wins. If you exceed any of these parameters Yamantau will spawn, otherwise it won't. There is no clear way to determine of there is a separation for Gold and Silver tiers so I can't figure out how to test that. Hi gr3yghost. I don't think equip or bots will factor in. They arent tiering on hangars anymore- they are using avg damage for MM. I am starting to track this to see what the matches look like and it is definitely the case. I haven't tried to figure out when yam starts appearing, but I doubt that is based on hangars given this is not factored into anything else now. It is most likely avg damage lvl for that as well. Well if it is based on damage the cap might be around 250000 which my general average is. If this is true I will tank my hangar down for beacon capping because that is now where the gold is. I will start a new test run to check this.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 14, 2017 17:59:25 GMT -5
And every so often, the MM actual does a proper job, and the match is more about skill than sheer damage output... If only this would happen more often, am I right? ![](http://i.imgur.com/6PMJMaH.png) Your squad finished with quite a bit more damage, kinda runs contrary to your assertion.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Feb 14, 2017 18:24:15 GMT -5
And every so often, the MM actual does a proper job, and the match is more about skill than sheer damage output... If only this would happen more often, am I right? Your squad finished with quite a bit more damage, kinda runs contrary to your assertion. Yeah, squad tactics and situational awareness, out of a bunch of random teammates, up against a 6 man squad... totally not possible. Couldn't possibly be that the lead score was made on our team by a smurf, what with the 5K victories and 44% win rate. But hey, I got an amazing number of beacon captures! I think your sarcasm meter needs calibrated. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by anindyameister on Feb 14, 2017 20:01:42 GMT -5
I've been following the thread, and I've noticed the various theories to explain the new mm. After a month of not giving up and pushing through the endless defeats and ignoring the countless events of being nothing more than target practice for maxed premium bots with premium weapons, I'm at a moment of pause. This is me right now ![](http://i.imgur.com/dbIOin2.png) And these are the average guys I face. ![](http://i.imgur.com/3KshPKX.png) I would like to know just one thing. What kind of a matchmaker built on what kind of algorithm decides that I'm suitable to go up against players who have higher stats than me in every aspect ?
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kucing
Destrier
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellowgreen.png)
Get those beacons already...
Posts: 47
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Kucing Hijau / Kucing Hitam
Platform: Android
Server Region: Asia
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Post by kucing on Feb 14, 2017 20:02:27 GMT -5
Hi gr3yghost. I don't think equip or bots will factor in. They arent tiering on hangars anymore- they are using avg damage for MM. I am starting to track this to see what the matches look like and it is definitely the case. I haven't tried to figure out when yam starts appearing, but I doubt that is based on hangars given this is not factored into anything else now. It is most likely avg damage lvl for that as well. Well if it is based on damage the cap might be around 250000 which my general average is. If this is true I will tank my hangar down for beacon capping because that is now where the gold is. I will start a new test run to check this. Gr3ygh05t may be on to something. I run 6/6 light/meds on one of my android accounts and have been fighting like hangars consistently. Sometimes I run across Destriers and Cossacks on the low end, Griffs, Leos, and Nats on the high end. Mostly I see Golems, Boas, Vityaz, Geps, Pattons. Average damage in the low 200s, peak damage a whisker below 400. Win hovers around 60%, 54% on the low end. With this I never once drop into Yamantau to the point that I miss the icy slopes. I levelled up my Stalker to 7 and immediately 1 in 3 I drop into Yamantau. Still seeing same hangar reds at +2 levels.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 14, 2017 20:10:35 GMT -5
Avg dmg in your profile is a rough indicator of what division you may be playing in, but it's not a stat that is factored into the mm.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 14, 2017 20:21:23 GMT -5
Avg dmg in your profile is a rough indicator of what division you may be playing in, but it's not a stat that is factored into the mm. That is not correct. I have been tracking things and unless squads are involved, avg damage is exactly what the MM uses, just as pix stated in the dev news post. I will make a new thread tomorrow with the data, but crunching the numbers it is spot on.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 14, 2017 20:27:37 GMT -5
I've been following the thread, and I've noticed the various theories to explain the new mm. After a month of not giving up and pushing through the endless defeats and ignoring the countless events of being nothing more than target practice for maxed premium bots with premium weapons, I'm at a moment of pause. This is me right now ![](http://i.imgur.com/dbIOin2.png) And these are the average guys I face. ![](http://i.imgur.com/3KshPKX.png) I would like to know just one thing. What kind of a matchmaker built on what kind of algorithm decides that I'm suitable to go up against players who have higher stats than me in every aspect ? Do you have the main team screen capture by chance? I will bet you that either 1- this guy was part of a squad in this match, or 2- someone left right before the match started and he was a fill in/outlier.
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kucing
Destrier
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellowgreen.png)
Get those beacons already...
Posts: 47
Karma: 13
Pilot name: Kucing Hijau / Kucing Hitam
Platform: Android
Server Region: Asia
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Post by kucing on Feb 14, 2017 20:29:13 GMT -5
I was referring to gr3ygh05t sighting the barrier between lower and higher tier, which uses dropping into Yamantau as an indicator. Almost exactly what happened to me.
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Post by anindyameister on Feb 14, 2017 20:31:46 GMT -5
I've been following the thread, and I've noticed the various theories to explain the new mm. After a month of not giving up and pushing through the endless defeats and ignoring the countless events of being nothing more than target practice for maxed premium bots with premium weapons, I'm at a moment of pause. This is me right now ![](http://i.imgur.com/dbIOin2.png) And these are the average guys I face. ![](http://i.imgur.com/3KshPKX.png) I would like to know just one thing. What kind of a matchmaker built on what kind of algorithm decides that I'm suitable to go up against players who have higher stats than me in every aspect ? Do you have the main team screen capture by chance? I will bet you that either 1- this guy was part of a squad in this match, or 2- someone left right before the match started and he was a fill in/outlier. This guy had top kills and top damage, and the rest were part of a squad. Map was yamantau, by the time blue bots reached center beacon, trident and treb furies reduced health to 1/3rd
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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 14, 2017 20:42:04 GMT -5
The new MM made the vast quantity of bronze and silver tier stuff I levelled totally worthless. I sorely regret pretty much everything I invested in. Just cleared out my inventory last week... something like 30 bots went up in smoke. What a waste of my upgrade queue and silver. The new model is simple: run cossacks & level end-game worthy weapons in the background. Once you hit heavies, run heavies using those levelled weapons. The only mid-game that exists now is an illusion created by player ignorance and poor decision-making. You're probably right but how do you run Cossacks and still get enough silver to be able to afford leveling end-game worthy weapons?
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 14, 2017 21:44:57 GMT -5
Avg dmg in your profile is a rough indicator of what division you may be playing in, but it's not a stat that is factored into the mm. That is not correct. I have been tracking things and unless squads are involved, avg damage is exactly what the MM uses, just as pix stated in the dev news post. I will make a new thread tomorrow with the data, but crunching the numbers it is spot on. Refer to page 21 of this thread, I think whatever pix said may have been misinterpreted. Damage is the main determinant yes. But avg damage in your profile is not considered at all by mm, although it is a correlated statistic.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 14, 2017 23:08:04 GMT -5
Someone finally cracked the new MM, and that recipe is already posted on this site. No.. I'm not going to link it.. figure it out on your own.
This post is a plea... one, everyone can stop crying about the MM because you're correct, it's jacked and unfair and screws the average player, so stop posting, you're right, I just proved that today.
Second, stop hypothesizing on what makes up the new rating algorithm because that secret recipe is no longer a secret. Everything I read, other than what I have referenced already, is pretty much wrong. Some threads contain pieces of correctness, but do not pull it all together or figure it out totally. In this case, yes they are partially correct but I am not issuing partial credit anywhere. This is pass/fail and unless you solve the entire puzzle, you do not pass. Someone passed... I copied/validated/verified... we have a winner.
By the way, on vacation in Paris one year an artist confided in me this...
'good artist's paint, great artist's steal'
I had asked her why all the other paintings around her looked the same, she pointed out the original and told me she liked her's better because of the color and whatever... artist gab... whatever... inside, I fully agreed... I bought her painting on the spot, it's in front of me now.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Feb 14, 2017 23:29:43 GMT -5
That is not correct. I have been tracking things and unless squads are involved, avg damage is exactly what the MM uses, just as pix stated in the dev news post. I will make a new thread tomorrow with the data, but crunching the numbers it is spot on. Refer to page 21 of this thread, I think whatever pix said may have been misinterpreted. Damage is the main determinant yes. But avg damage in your profile is not considered at all by mm, although it is a correlated statistic. Pretty sure this is correct. It fits in well with everything I've observed across 4 accounts (the ones on the devices I own), up and down.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 14, 2017 23:41:31 GMT -5
Refer to page 21 of this thread, I think whatever pix said may have been misinterpreted. Damage is the main determinant yes. But avg damage in your profile is not considered at all by mm, although it is a correlated statistic. Pretty sure this is correct. It fits in well with everything I've observed across 4 accounts (the ones on the devices I own), up and down. I will post data in a new thread in about 10 minutes that shows it is profile average damage that is what the MM uses. It is too consistent to be anything else boobookitty.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 15, 2017 0:06:40 GMT -5
Read page 21... It's not speculation... It's fact
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Post by buzzard on Feb 15, 2017 0:18:01 GMT -5
Where did you get the information or data?
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 15, 2017 3:15:38 GMT -5
From game data transmitted to my device. When pix says mm is damage based, they are referring to the scheme I describe earlier in the thread, not avg dmg stats.
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