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Post by whatttupG on Feb 15, 2017 3:29:18 GMT -5
Gonna state the obvious here.. nobody gonna go back 4 pages, we ain't got time for that haha.
Better idea for BBS (forums) use is quote or copy something, paste it into your new reply, and hit send/create/whatever.
This bumps the thread, puts your name as the last reply and Leta everyone see what you mean instead of having to page around.
BBS... bulletin board system... upgraded poster = upgraded posts.
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Post by SoCalGrndR on Feb 15, 2017 12:30:26 GMT -5
My experience from last week has been on a rise! I have been steady in my climb to 50%+ and went on to 60% 4 days ago. I have stayed above the 50% mark since then, in addition my Ave Dam has been increasing from 35pk and now to 400k Ave. I swapped a few bots around but hanger is 8.5/9. The consistent 10-12 level hangers as the majority of reds and blues has basically disappeared, I do see 1-2 on a side regularly, but not the majority of bots anymore. I started today about 390k dam / War Robots 52% and played roughly 15-17 battles. I am now at 417K dam / War Robots 52%. I was looking for a change in levels/tiers etc... as I went above the 400k mark. If there was a change it was not drastic. Nothing in my hanger has changed level, doing 8 to 9 on Lancelot with day and half left. Hanger start of day: Attachment DeletedThis is current now: Attachment DeletedI am really suprised and feel like I am playing to PLAY and COMPETE again vs. trying to play through and endure the new MM process. Most battles have lasted to sub 3 min. I hope this is what we can expect going forward.
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raine
Recruit
Posts: 7
Karma: 7
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Post by raine on Feb 15, 2017 20:49:01 GMT -5
yeah, i don't really mean to beat a dead horse, but i just logged in to play a game. haven't played in a week and my quests were building up...
i had most damage on my team, and the strongest hanger at 6/6. but we got thoroughly trashed by a team full of 9-12 level bots with 8-12 weapons. it was a slaughter. i think my damage, as top of my team, was 7th overall, behind everyone on their team.
why the hell did i bother playing this match? i died over and over uselessly, as did everyone else on my team. what was the matchmaker trying to prove? were 11 of us riding alone while one player had their win rate adjusted? this is stupid. a sprinkle of silver isn't worth my time.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 15, 2017 20:50:35 GMT -5
yeah, i don't really mean to beat a dead horse, but i just logged in to play a game. haven't played in a week and my quests were building up... i had most damage on my team, and the strongest hanger at 6/6. but we got thoroughly trashed by a team full of 9-12 level bots with 8-12 weapons. it was a slaughter. i think my damage, as top of my team, was 7th overall, behind everyone on their team. why the hell did i bother playing this match? i died over and over uselessly, as did everyone else on my team. what was the matchmaker trying to prove? were 11 of us riding alone while one player had their win rate adjusted? this is stupid. a sprinkle of silver isn't worth my time. Ditching is acceptable if you know you're screwed... im now gonna hide because there are many people on this forum who disagree.
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Post by Muhlakai on Feb 15, 2017 21:49:35 GMT -5
Ditching is acceptable if you know you're screwed.... Ditching is acceptable if: ...you are a coward. ...you don't want to try to improve your ability to fight in tough situations. ...you have deluded yourself to believe there's never been a time that a match like yours has ever flipped. ...you've carefully forgotten the game you lost when you had the same advantage that the Reds have right now. ...you don't care about your teammates who are still trying to tough it out. ...you don't care whether there is a ditch/tanking penalty and would still do it if such a penalty existed. ...you only brought Natashas and long-range artillery to the match. ...you're thinking about uninstalling anyhow. ...your real life just surprised you with something you absolutely have to deal with immediately and can't wait a few minutes to address. ...but not for other reasons. Just take the loss like a champion and make those scumbag Reds pay for every inch.
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Feb 15, 2017 21:53:00 GMT -5
yeah, i don't really mean to beat a dead horse, but i just logged in to play a game. haven't played in a week and my quests were building up... i had most damage on my team, and the strongest hanger at 6/6. but we got thoroughly trashed by a team full of 9-12 level bots with 8-12 weapons. it was a slaughter. i think my damage, as top of my team, was 7th overall, behind everyone on their team. why the hell did i bother playing this match? i died over and over uselessly, as did everyone else on my team. what was the matchmaker trying to prove? were 11 of us riding alone while one player had their win rate adjusted? this is stupid. a sprinkle of silver isn't worth my time. Ditching is acceptable if you know you're screwed... im now gonna hide because there are many people on this forum who disagree. In league loosing but placing top 3-4 will still matter for points and possibly AU or AG
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phoenix232
GI. Patton
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 132
Karma: 74
Pilot name: Phoenix-232
League: Diamond
Server Region: North America
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Post by phoenix232 on Feb 15, 2017 22:32:36 GMT -5
Almost all my matches tonight involved people ditching the match 1-2 bots in, usually because (can't be coincidence) the enemy team brought had 2-3 Trident bots on the field, and the knifers just couldn't get in range. That's the only common theme I was able to find throughout. High amounts of Tridents + Knife Hangars = Leavers.
Don't have a solution for this, just wanted to point it out.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 16, 2017 3:19:23 GMT -5
I'm seeing alot of ditching tonight too, but not for 12/12's at all.. as I posted elsewhere I spend all day yesterday destroying my numbers and the results are amazing still. What I mean is I'm no where near TT anymore, I'm more like way too low and back with near n00b's again... I'm seeing cossack and destriers and zenit boa's again so what's that, maybe old bronze tier?
It looks like the recipe for fighting the MM is spreading because I'm seeing it in play. People today are trying what I did all day yesterday. I have to think word is getting around because it works. Other than the ditching of course, I have seen ppl zero out score wise and even though that team wins, there is no coin (back for lunar event) or gold rewarded no matter what if you post zero zero.
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Post by couchtrader on Feb 16, 2017 3:36:49 GMT -5
Where did you get the information or data? I'm still / also waiting for the answer.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 16, 2017 4:23:58 GMT -5
Where did you get the information or data? I'm still / also waiting for the answer. I answered that, but to be more specific, Charles proxy. ![](https://s32.postimg.org/bkeb5cdqd/image.jpg) I bet this info is gonna go server side after posting this ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
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Post by buzzard on Feb 16, 2017 7:12:54 GMT -5
I'm still / also waiting for the answer. I answered that, but to be more specific, Charles proxy. ![](https://s32.postimg.org/bkeb5cdqd/image.jpg) I bet this info is gonna go server side after posting this ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) This may be how we are put into league divisions. It isn't possible that matchmaking based on a relative system would have to teams have exact avg damages as being seen. Maybe the pool of players matched is from within a league division?
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Post by miatahead on Feb 16, 2017 14:22:26 GMT -5
how do I get that proxy info from my tablet?
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 16, 2017 15:40:56 GMT -5
I answered that, but to be more specific, Charles proxy. ![](https://s32.postimg.org/bkeb5cdqd/image.jpg) I bet this info is gonna go server side after posting this This may be how we are put into league divisions. It isn't possible that matchmaking based on a relative system would have to teams have exact avg damages as being seen. Maybe the pool of players matched is from within a league division? read page 21, itll all make sense as to why you see similar avg damages
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Post by jaeger88 on Feb 16, 2017 17:07:31 GMT -5
Seriously, if you haven't figured it out by now there's a bigger problem than worrying about the new MM.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 16, 2017 18:52:37 GMT -5
This may be how we are put into league divisions. It isn't possible that matchmaking based on a relative system would have to teams have exact avg damages as being seen. Maybe the pool of players matched is from within a league division? read page 21, itll all make sense as to why you see similar avg damages Ive already answered this in the "I bring you a damage based match maker" thread, but let me try to put it to you another way. You have shown that Pix is collecting a league score and have done a very nice job in showing how this league score changes based on where you land on the scoreboard after a match. You can't tell how this score relates to others within a match or what Pix is doing with the number server side. You are assuming it is the primary determinant for match making, but with no way of knowing if this is true or not (it makes complete sense that it is involved in some way). What we do know is that within a match, the average profile damage of the pilots is within 10%, and usually less, of the average profile damage of all 12. When you look at the mean of the average profile damage of the 2 teams and compare them against each other, they are different by 2% different or less (!). My PhD adviser always used to use an expression that is also taught to physicians- When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. The hoof beat here is that the avg dmg scores are incredibly close. The horse is that average profile damage is the primary factor being used by the new MM. Is it possible that the league score is being used as the primary determinant of the MM? Sure, we can't prove otherwise because we cant see the data. But if you ask me, the idea that a relative sorting system (doesn't even use the absolute values) is so effective that you end up with teams that have basically identical 50 game avg dmg scores....this is not a zebra, it is a unicorn (and the Pix devs are magicians). We will know more once the league system is live and we can see if leagues sort beautifully with a players damage rating. I would guess that the two will be related but the dmg rating is what the MM uses. For example, the pool of potential matches comes from the league you are in and then the MM uses avg dmg to select out of that pool.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 16, 2017 18:53:16 GMT -5
Seriously, if you haven't figured it out by now there's a bigger problem than worrying about the new MM. True, but I can't personally throw Trump out of the White House...wish I could.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 16, 2017 20:35:43 GMT -5
read page 21, itll all make sense as to why you see similar avg damages Ive already answered this in the "I bring you a damage based match maker" thread, but let me try to put it to you another way. You have shown that Pix is collecting a league score and have done a very nice job in showing how this league score changes based on where you land on the scoreboard after a match. You can't tell how this score relates to others within a match or what Pix is doing with the number server side. You are assuming it is the primary determinant for match making, but with no way of knowing if this is true or not (it makes complete sense that it is involved in some way). What we do know is that within a match, the average profile damage of the pilots is within 10%, and usually less, of the average profile damage of all 12. When you look at the mean of the average profile damage of the 2 teams and compare them against each other, they are different by 2% different or less (!). My PhD adviser always used to use an expression that is also taught to physicians- When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. The hoof beat here is that the avg dmg scores are incredibly close. The horse is that average profile damage is the primary factor being used by the new MM. Is it possible that the league score is being used as the primary determinant of the MM? Sure, we can't prove otherwise because we cant see the data. But if you ask me, the idea that a relative sorting system (doesn't even use the absolute values) is so effective that you end up with teams that have basically identical 50 game avg dmg scores....this is not a zebra, it is a unicorn (and the Pix devs are magicians). We will know more once the league system is live and we can see if leagues sort beautifully with a players damage rating. I would guess that the two will be related but the dmg rating is what the MM uses. For example, the pool of potential matches comes from the league you are in and then the MM uses avg dmg to select out of that pool. Did your adviser also teach you the phrase "correlation does not imply causation"? Players with similar avg damages being matched together is just effect of the new MM, but the not basis on which it matches people. Its all about the artificial points system they have setup. I know its probably difficult to understand without seeing your league numbers, PM me and I'll show you how, and I'm positive you will agree with me. Oh, and I wanted to add that looking at avg dmg is a good way to approximate what bracket you are playing in, and probably the best way for players to do so without being able to see any of the underlying league framework. I'm just pointing out that avg damage isn't the basis that MM uses to select players, and also doesn't account for the oddities in MM that are seen, league score does however.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 16, 2017 21:25:13 GMT -5
Lol, ok cheers. We are equally stubborn
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 16, 2017 21:38:17 GMT -5
This isn't an opinion I'm giving you here lol! I'm just telling you how it is. ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ?
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 17, 2017 15:33:16 GMT -5
This isn't an opinion I'm giving you here lol! I'm just telling you how it is. ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Refusing facts and moving goalposts is a tactic hard wired in many, I love how you stick to your guns. Let em argue facts not people... excellent. Browsing the network news channels alone proves this, in less color however as the chumps one booth over, crying a river loud enough to be a part of my lunch... ironically for this forum, both include references to baby seals... and both cannot be infiltrated in the least on any level for any reason, if you're not already sympathetic to that plight or under similar delusions. Averages don't drive anything in War Robots and facts in RL won't convince some of very obvious things like Trump won and is now in charge. Neither is gonna change despite a river of tears at flash flood levels and both topics can be driven by a mountain of facts that will never be acknowledged or shared by half the crowd. Again stellar write up Boo Boo, nice job decrypting the cryptic. I tested your findings hoping they worked and they do. The new MM is now a high paying asset, one I'm guessing will last until about 2.6.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 17, 2017 15:50:12 GMT -5
This isn't an opinion I'm giving you here lol! I'm just telling you how it is. ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Refusing facts and moving goalposts is a tactic hard wired in many, I love how you stick to your guns. Let em argue facts not people... excellent. Browsing the network news channels alone proves this, in less color however as the chumps one booth over, crying a river loud enough to be a part of my lunch... ironically for this forum, both include references to baby seals... and both cannot be infiltrated in the least on any level for any reason, if you're not already sympathetic to that plight or under similar delusions. Averages don't drive anything in War Robots and facts in RL won't convince some of very obvious things like Trump won and is now in charge. Neither is gonna change despite a river of tears at flash flood levels and both topics can be driven by a mountain of facts that will never be acknowledged or shared by half the crowd. Again stellar write up Boo Boo, nice job decrypting the cryptic. I tested your findings hoping they worked and they do. The new MM is now a high paying asset, one I'm guessing will last until about 2.6. OK, I have been holding off, but after this post I cant. I am the one who showed data to back up my claim. Bkitty showed a post that there is a league score being calculated. Of course there is....leagues will be introduced soon. I was able to see exactly what she is looking at. You have no visibility to anyone else's data but your own, so there is no way to test if this is used for anything at all other than to determine what league you are in. You cannot make any correlation between your score and that of the pilots you are grouped with- zero, because you cant get any data but your own by Bkitty's method. On the other hand you can actually run stats on the relationship between the dmg score and the MM. There is precedence for what I am proposing. In the old system, the match maker used your tier as the pool for your matches. I am saying they will do this then as well, but you dmg rating is the calculation they will run to do the matching out of this pool. I keep saying all will be apparent when the league system is live because we will get to see how ppls dmg ratings correlate to their league. Until then sit tight. But do not criticize something that is backed up by data, when the person opposing it cannot test their hypothesis, other than to say if my leagues score goes down, my matches are easier. That is not a data based conclusion. So tell me exactly how you tested Bkitty's findings WhattupG? Did the league scores of the people you were matched with have a stronger correlation than their dmg profile? If so, show me the data....because you cant get it.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 17, 2017 16:01:20 GMT -5
And as a side note, again kudos to Bkitty for figuring out how your scoreboard position will determine your league placement. This really was good work.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 17, 2017 16:17:01 GMT -5
Refusing facts and moving goalposts is a tactic hard wired in many, I love how you stick to your guns. Let em argue facts not people... excellent. Browsing the network news channels alone proves this, in less color however as the chumps one booth over, crying a river loud enough to be a part of my lunch... ironically for this forum, both include references to baby seals... and both cannot be infiltrated in the least on any level for any reason, if you're not already sympathetic to that plight or under similar delusions. Averages don't drive anything in War Robots and facts in RL won't convince some of very obvious things like Trump won and is now in charge. Neither is gonna change despite a river of tears at flash flood levels and both topics can be driven by a mountain of facts that will never be acknowledged or shared by half the crowd. Again stellar write up Boo Boo, nice job decrypting the cryptic. I tested your findings hoping they worked and they do. The new MM is now a high paying asset, one I'm guessing will last until about 2.6. OK, I have been holding off, but after this post I cant. I am the one who showed data to back up my claim. Bkitty showed a post that there is a league score being calculated. Of course there is....leagues will be introduced soon. I was able to see exactly what she is looking at. You have no visibility to anyone else's data but your own, so there is no way to test if this is used for anything at all other than to determine what league you are in. You cannot make any correlation between your score and that of the pilots you are grouped with- zero, because you cant get any data but your own by Bkitty's method. On the other hand you can actually run stats on the relationship between the dmg score and the MM. There is precedence for what I am proposing. In the old system, the match maker used your tier as the pool for your matches. I am saying they will do this then as well, but you dmg rating is the calculation they will run to do the matching out of this pool. I keep saying all will be apparent when the league system is live because we will get to see how ppls dmg ratings correlate to their league. Until then sit tight. But do not criticize something that is backed up by data, when the person opposing it cannot test their hypothesis, other than to say if my leagues score goes down, my matches are easier. That is not a data based conclusion. So tell me exactly how you tested Bkitty's findings WhattupG? Did the league scores of the people you were matched with have a stronger correlation than their dmg profile? If so, show me the data....because you cant get it. Not here to eDebate dude, sorry. I tested things out personally and know what I saw and what helped me. Sure averages point you correctly, but as said already, aren't the end of the road. Not interested in teaching cause and effect either, but you are focused so all I can offer is you're both in the same room, but one of you is close where the other is there. Again I tested it myself and averages eventually align with the theory, because the theory eventually drives the averages. This may not read obvious but it should and maybe all you need to do is continue your work until you reach our conclusions. As Boo Boo said, facts not opinions. What I see and say may look like an opinion, but I'll disclose a little trick I use, also to hopefully avoid more flames.. this opinion was built on fact, and any argument, from any angle, won't stick because I've already stacked the deck in a game that can't be won. It's like 3 card Monty where you don't know the trick.
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Post by buzzard on Feb 17, 2017 16:36:35 GMT -5
OK, I have been holding off, but after this post I cant. I am the one who showed data to back up my claim. Bkitty showed a post that there is a league score being calculated. Of course there is....leagues will be introduced soon. I was able to see exactly what she is looking at. You have no visibility to anyone else's data but your own, so there is no way to test if this is used for anything at all other than to determine what league you are in. You cannot make any correlation between your score and that of the pilots you are grouped with- zero, because you cant get any data but your own by Bkitty's method. On the other hand you can actually run stats on the relationship between the dmg score and the MM. There is precedence for what I am proposing. In the old system, the match maker used your tier as the pool for your matches. I am saying they will do this then as well, but you dmg rating is the calculation they will run to do the matching out of this pool. I keep saying all will be apparent when the league system is live because we will get to see how ppls dmg ratings correlate to their league. Until then sit tight. But do not criticize something that is backed up by data, when the person opposing it cannot test their hypothesis, other than to say if my leagues score goes down, my matches are easier. That is not a data based conclusion. So tell me exactly how you tested Bkitty's findings WhattupG? Did the league scores of the people you were matched with have a stronger correlation than their dmg profile? If so, show me the data....because you cant get it. Not here to eDebate dude, sorry. I tested things out personally and know what I saw and what helped me. Sure averages point you correctly, but as said already, aren't the end of the road. Not interested in teaching cause and effect either, but you are focused so all I can offer is you're both in the same room, but one of you is close where the other is there. Again I tested it myself and averages eventually align with the theory, because the theory eventually drives the averages. This may not read obvious but it should and maybe all you need to do is continue your work until you reach our conclusions. As Boo Boo said, facts not opinions. What I see and say may look like an opinion, but I'll disclose a little trick I use, also to hopefully avoid more flames.. this opinion was built on fact, and any argument, from any angle, won't stick because I've already stacked the deck in a game that can't be won. It's like 3 card Monty where you don't know the trick. I posted my facts and they are actual data points- I am happy to show you a slew more with pics if you would like- send me a PM because I am sure noone else on this board wants to see a squabble. If you are not able to do the same and instead say "trust me" then it is obvious what "facts" you have. I tried to myself to confirm and it is not possible to get the data to look at anyone else's leagues score but your own. You are entitled to your opinion, but it IS an opinion unless it is testable.ANd you saying that is fact, but you dont want to get into it is an obvious way of saying you have no proof and are avoiding the question. Like I said, I was trying to let sleeping dogs lay, but I am a scientist (and have been for the last 30 years) and when you say that I am spouting "cryptic" mysteries and ignoring facts, I take that to heart. I do not do that and if you or Bkitty are able to show ANY data that can answer the question, and if in fact the data show that the league score is the MM factor, I will acknowledge this, happily, because it is the correct answer. I apologize to you board members for having to see this BS back and forth. I was trying to do it privately with Bkitty in PM, but I was just called out publicly about something I take seriously (not MM!- but my scientific integrity).
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 17, 2017 16:47:14 GMT -5
Frankly... I would rather it be in the open as long as it is getting to the bottom of what the hell is going on... but that's just me ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by buzzard on Feb 17, 2017 16:51:50 GMT -5
Quite happy to do that, because theys ain't just words. I will not say something if I cannot back it up.
And if whattupG, or anyone else, has a way to get the data that is needed to answer the question, which are the league scores of ALL pilots in a few matches, I can easily do an ANOVA with that and the avg dmg profile through my labs SAS software and we will have the answer in 2 seconds.
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situmas
Destrier
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellowgreen.png)
Really do not enjoy the game... maybe in a month
Posts: 24
Karma: 17
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Post by situmas on Feb 17, 2017 17:29:40 GMT -5
Given the apparent propensity for sand bagging the matches (see the other posts)....I think any understanding of the MM is out the window. It's been getting worse where I'm now seeing the same players, sitting in their bots watching the match go by... Incredible... Speechless really.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 17, 2017 20:35:05 GMT -5
Well, as far as I see it, short of direct answer from Pixonic, both MM scenarios we are proposing are just theories. But I've given you examples in PM of where your avg damage theory is broken, and again, I just ask you to try it yourself.
While it may be impossible to get the league scores of all 12 players in a match, I have tested it with another player with a far different avg dmg, win%, and hanger, BUT with a league score 50 points within one another. And we were able to sync drop together numerous times, and then as our league scores started to drift apart, we no longer were able to do so. The only common basis I have seen in my MM experimentation is league score. And while it may not be a "fact" it appears to be the most likely basis for MM.
And how do you explain being able to consistently go against noobs after tanking league score when ur average damage is far above theirs?
I feel like my "theory" explains all the mm idiosyncrasies we see, while yours does little but tell us general trends that can be observed.
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 17, 2017 20:40:44 GMT -5
I have an idea, lets tank both our league scores to 0. And play and log 50 games and see if there is a stronger correlation between our league scores and opponents avg dmg, vs our own average dmgs vs theirs.
i am already quite certain of the results we would see, are you?
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 17, 2017 20:52:28 GMT -5
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