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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 19:22:35 GMT -5
Someone described as a being stuck in a local minimum. While there, you get *really* punishing matches. But the way you play, when you do start losing you lose just enough to *stay where you are* in that bad place, not drop down to anything easy. Or normal. That would be me. Treading water at the lower boundary of a very rough place. The answer is to play less aggressively and give up on matches that start to go sideways - being the "best loser" is as bad a title as it sounds. The problem is that goes against how I want to play. Always more challenges to overcome it seems...
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Post by buzzard on Feb 9, 2017 20:48:10 GMT -5
Wonder what the record is for most pages in a thread...
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 9, 2017 21:10:24 GMT -5
Someone described as a being stuck in a local minimum. While there, you get *really* punishing matches. But the way you play, when you do start losing you lose just enough to *stay where you are* in that bad place, not drop down to anything easy. Or normal. That would be me. Treading water at the lower boundary of a very rough place. The answer is to play less aggressively and give up on matches that start to go sideways - being the "best loser" is as bad a title as it sounds. The problem is that goes against how I want to play. Always more challenges to overcome it seems... The good news is, you don't have to play the game at all if you are not enjoying it. If you aren't having fun then do something else. If you can't stomach tanking to get matches that are more fun, then do something else. Not trying to be a jerk here. But why play something that isn't fun anymore?
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odin63
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Post by odin63 on Feb 9, 2017 23:14:42 GMT -5
Jesus...I make one post about things being sorted out and the next day I'm tied down and gang 「grape」. It's amazing really. Right down to 38%. Did something change today? Cause damn, I'm getting just beat here. Added a fifth slot and I think that made it worse. So frustrating. If you are finishing in the top 2 damage when you lose you will continue to see stronger opponents. If you finish 5th or 6th on the losing side you will drop rank quickly and find more entertaining matches. The only solution is to inflict less damage on the reds. I think this is an insane method for matching players. Having to deliberately limit what you can do in order to get a fair match?!? That's crazy. MM should just concern itself with relative hangar strength and experience level and let player skill work itself out. Really the only fair way to do it. Skillful players should be permitted to do well in whatever bracket they chose to play because they're better players. I can't stand the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. Doesn't teach anyone to deal with a fair loss or to persevere and get better in order to compete against similar hangars and experience levels. I don't think anybody believes that it's fair to face TT hangars with obviously inferior equipment.
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odin63
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Post by odin63 on Feb 9, 2017 23:18:55 GMT -5
That would be me. Treading water at the lower boundary of a very rough place. The answer is to play less aggressively and give up on matches that start to go sideways - being the "best loser" is as bad a title as it sounds. The problem is that goes against how I want to play. Always more challenges to overcome it seems... The good news is, you don't have to play the game at all if you are not enjoying it. If you aren't having fun then do something else. If you can't stomach tanking to get matches that are more fun, then do something else. Not trying to be a jerk here. But why play something that isn't fun anymore? I think that the whole point of the forum is to contribute insights with the hope that the game will once again be enjoyable. That's why we are still playing in this present misery.
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Post by Muhlakai on Feb 10, 2017 0:02:28 GMT -5
Jesus...I make one post about things being sorted out and the next day I'm tied down and gang 「grape」. It's amazing really. Right down to 38%. Did something change today? Cause damn, I'm getting just beat here. Added a fifth slot and I think that made it worse. So frustrating. If you are finishing in the top 2 damage when you lose you will continue to see stronger opponents. If you finish 5th or 6th on the losing side you will drop rank quickly and find more entertaining matches. The only solution is to inflict less damage on the reds. Um, or no, that's not it at all and Pix already confirmed that avg damage over the last 50 matches is the largest factor. So adding a 5th slot bumps the average damage and therefore the tier, at least temporarily.
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Post by Replicant on Feb 10, 2017 17:41:44 GMT -5
Yes. If you are one of those who plays for damage and have a knack for being in the top two in damage when you lose, following the 'just play more and it'll all get better' advice so common around here will cause you endless misery that will only get *worse* over time. But, even then you are outperforming most of your peers and your rating climbs until the competition knocks you down. If you're consistently scoring in the top two for damage on the losing side you are contributing more than your teammates and your rating is not misplaced, you're playing in the right pool. Sure, it can feel like you are being punished a bit and those that focus more on winning games via beacons rather than raw damage may get "easier" matches, but the difference isn't that large that it invalidates a player like you. I mean, you'll climb until you are no longer scoring top two on the losing team, your rating falls, and you'll end up with easier competition. Now, I've theorized that as the system works itself out it creates some grouping in certain ranges that can be problematic for sorting and good matches, but time fixes this. It isn't necessarily the number of games you've played, but the number of games others have yet to play. That being said, I've suggested more than once that Pix factor in beacons in their rating adjustment, that way it'll be more "fair". But, dealing damage is often required to win the game, and if you're putting out more damage than your teammates or on average what they are putting out, you're playing in the right depth of the pool. Z, if league score is an absolute (additive) value as opposed to something normalized to the last X games, the number of games you play relative to your theoretical equals (in gear+skill) could easily skew the MM results to the point where time will not fix the problem. That doesn't read the same as the problematic sorting you referred to earlier (but I may have misinterpreted the problem you were identifying). I guess my bottom line is that failing to normalize league scores around a static number of games played most recently will create breakdowns in matchups that aren't fixable short of not playing x amount of time, or sand-bagging to some degree. Between that and failing to factor in Beacon capping, all Pix is managing to do with the new MM is moving the corruption from how we build hangers to how we play the hangers we've built.
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raine
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Post by raine on Feb 11, 2017 1:05:14 GMT -5
in another game i heard someone describing the team experience as follows:
40% of the time, my team mates will carry me to victory. i make little to no difference 40% of the time, the other team is just better, and we will loose. i make little to no difference 20% of the time, my effort will tip the scales, and my contributions make all the difference.
and i've been thinking about this alot.
in the old MM system, i would have completely disagreed, because it was not true for me. my hanger was built for my tier, and i had a 90% win rate. i made a difference to my team, and i felt like i was in control of my destiny. i play good, i get gold. my team does too. yes, the MM was kinda screwed up, but after alot (and i mean ALOT) of trial and error, i found the place i liked to play.
these days, i feel like when i tap to join a game, the dice are rolled: 20% of the time i will have fun, and 80% of the time i wait to see if my team gets the win. i feel like most of the time, my part in the game was irrelevant. destiny (and any gold rewards) is totally out of my hands. in fact, the scoreboard is often shocking: sometimes i find myself at the top after thinking i did terrible, and many times i see (based on damage dealt) that my team never even had a small hope of victory. at these rates, i feel that a monkey poking blindly at my ipad would have nearly the same win rate that i do.
ive just been playing along, hoping things will sort themselves out, but not really having fun. someone said "play 50 games" so i did. then someone said "play 100" so i did that too. its not sorting itself out. and since i learned of this way of looking at things, well, i haven't been playing much. i turn the game on out of habit, click my WSP bonuses, check my daily quests, and then when i should click to play i stop, think it over, and go play something else.
i think the bottom line for me is, i don't want to play if i'm going to be 80% irrelevant. and right now that's how i feel.
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Post by wildboar on Feb 11, 2017 3:45:35 GMT -5
in another game i heard someone describing the team experience as follows: 40% of the time, my team mates will carry me to victory. i make little to no difference 40% of the time, the other team is just better, and we will loose. i make little to no difference 20% of the time, my effort will tip the scales, and my contributions make all the difference. and i've been thinking about this alot. in the old MM system, i would have completely disagreed, because it was not true for me. my hanger was built for my tier, and i had a 90% win rate. i made a difference to my team, and i felt like i was in control of my destiny. i play good, i get gold. my team does too. yes, the MM was kinda screwed up, but after alot (and i mean ALOT) of trial and error, i found the place i liked to play. these days, i feel like when i tap to join a game, the dice are rolled: 20% of the time i will have fun, and 80% of the time i wait to see if my team gets the win. i feel like most of the time, my part in the game was irrelevant. destiny (and any gold rewards) is totally out of my hands. in fact, the scoreboard is often shocking: sometimes i find myself at the top after thinking i did terrible, and many times i see (based on damage dealt) that my team never even had a small hope of victory. at these rates, i feel that a monkey poking blindly at my ipad would have nearly the same win rate that i do. ive just been playing along, hoping things will sort themselves out, but not really having fun. someone said "play 50 games" so i did. then someone said "play 100" so i did that too. its not sorting itself out. and since i learned of this way of looking at things, well, i haven't been playing much. i turn the game on out of habit, click my WSP bonuses, check my daily quests, and then when i should click to play i stop, think it over, and go play something else. i think the bottom line for me is, i don't want to play if i'm going to be 80% irrelevant. and right now that's how i feel. That pretty much sums up my experience since the MM changes my win rate was previously 80% but as you said "I found a place I liked to play"...
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Post by SlowReflexes on Feb 11, 2017 10:15:19 GMT -5
That would be me. Treading water at the lower boundary of a very rough place. The answer is to play less aggressively and give up on matches that start to go sideways - being the "best loser" is as bad a title as it sounds. The problem is that goes against how I want to play. Always more challenges to overcome it seems... The good news is, you don't have to play the game at all if you are not enjoying it. If you aren't having fun then do something else. If you can't stomach tanking to get matches that are more fun, then do something else. Not trying to be a jerk here. But why play something that isn't fun anymore? Because it used to be so much fun, and it's hard to give up and let go? Because a small percentage of the time, it's still fun? (You luck into a good match and it's like the old magic is back, but it doesn't last.)
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L I N O L E U M
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All Your Beacons Are Belong To Us
Posts: 33
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Pilot name: Linoleum
Platform: Android
Clan: Metal Rain ... for now anyways
League: Silver
Favorite robot: Stalker or Cossack
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Post by L I N O L E U M on Feb 12, 2017 3:15:49 GMT -5
I'm loving the new mm. No joke.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 12, 2017 4:31:07 GMT -5
MM isn't too daft anymore for me. It's about 50-10-20-20 Carry-Carried-Close-Crushed nowadays.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 4:44:40 GMT -5
MM isn't too daft anymore for me. It's about 50-10-20-20 Carry-Carried-Close-Crushed nowadays. Pix pretty much came out and said the MM was based on the average damage over 50 games stat. Cossack= Little damage but big presence. Average damage was possibly the worst stat they could have used, as there are plenty of screenies of people's profiles with 500k, where one hangar obviously shouldn't be against the other. Damage is determined by maps more than anything in this game(cover/distance), looks like skipping Yama and Springfield in favor of straight knife fighting will also earn a swift kick in the nads.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 12, 2017 4:46:36 GMT -5
MM isn't too daft anymore for me. It's about 50-10-20-20 Carry-Carried-Close-Crushed nowadays. Pix pretty much came out and said the MM was based on the average damage over 50 games stat. Cossack= Little damage but big presence. Average damage was possibly the worst stat they could have used, as there are plenty of screenies of people's profiles with 500k, where one hangar obviously shouldn't be against the other. Damage is determined by maps more than anything in this game(cover/distance), looks like skipping Yama and Springfield in favor of straight knife fighting will also earn a swift kick in the nads. I'm sure you didn't mean it but I still find that offensive. its all good though, I'm sure there was no mean intent
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IWantToBeAChickenNug
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Bye game :D))))
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Favorite robot: Carnage
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Post by IWantToBeAChickenNug on Feb 12, 2017 4:51:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 4:53:22 GMT -5
Pix pretty much came out and said the MM was based on the average damage over 50 games stat. Cossack= Little damage but big presence. Average damage was possibly the worst stat they could have used, as there are plenty of screenies of people's profiles with 500k, where one hangar obviously shouldn't be against the other. Damage is determined by maps more than anything in this game(cover/distance), looks like skipping Yama and Springfield in favor of straight knife fighting will also earn a swift kick in the nads. I'm sure you didn't mean it but I still find that offensive. its all good though, I'm sure there was no mean intent In lesser words, the new MM hates DBs, PDBs, and knife fighters in general. A balanced hangar needs a bot for every role or MM will roflstomp it. Cossack, Boa, and Griffin are the best overall Ag bots
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Post by carnage on Feb 12, 2017 4:59:48 GMT -5
in another game i heard someone describing the team experience as follows: 40% of the time, my team mates will carry me to victory. i make little to no difference 40% of the time, the other team is just better, and we will loose. i make little to no difference 20% of the time, my effort will tip the scales, and my contributions make all the difference. [...] i think the bottom line for me is, i don't want to play if i'm going to be 80% irrelevant. and right now that's how i feel. Well, we are 12 players per game, so by the nature of the game, we are less than 10% of the outcome. Sure a good player can have a bigger impact than that, but realistically we always depend on our teammates and on the other team also. I played a lot yesterday trying to get one last silver chest, and while I would like to say I AM THA BEST PLAYER EVAR, the reality is that my results were all over the place. Sometimes I finished first in my team and I imagined other players looking at the end table, in awe in front of such display of skills, and sometimes I finished dead last and I wish I could change my name for everybody to forget I even existed. The MM is important, sure. But by the nature of the game, we depend a lot on circumstances, and on other players as well.
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Feb 12, 2017 5:08:34 GMT -5
in another game i heard someone describing the team experience as follows: 40% of the time, my team mates will carry me to victory. i make little to no difference 40% of the time, the other team is just better, and we will loose. i make little to no difference 20% of the time, my effort will tip the scales, and my contributions make all the difference. [...] i think the bottom line for me is, i don't want to play if i'm going to be 80% irrelevant. and right now that's how i feel. Well, we are 12 players per game, so by the nature of the game, we are less than 10% of the outcome. Sure a good player can have a bigger impact than that, but realistically we always depend on our teammates and on the other team also. I played a lot yesterday trying to get one last silver chest, and while I would like to say I AM THA BEST PLAYER EVAR, the reality is that my results were all over the place. Sometimes I finished first in my team and I imagined other players looking at the end table, in awe in front of such display of skills, and sometimes I finished dead last and I wish I could change my name for everybody to forget I even existed. The MM is important, sure. But by the nature of the game, we depend a lot on circumstances, and on other players as well. i can't relate.
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Feb 12, 2017 5:10:02 GMT -5
MM isn't too daft anymore for me. It's about 50-10-20-20 Carry-Carried-Close-Crushed nowadays. Pix pretty much came out and said the MM was based on the average damage over 50 games stat. Cossack= Little damage but big presence. Average damage was possibly the worst stat they could have used, as there are plenty of screenies of people's profiles with 500k, where one hangar obviously shouldn't be against the other. Damage is determined by maps more than anything in this game(cover/distance), looks like skipping Yama and Springfield in favor of straight knife fighting will also earn a swift kick in the nads. Perfect! My average damage never goes over 250K!
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Feb 12, 2017 5:12:47 GMT -5
Holy Guacamole! That reaper guys hangar is almost exactly the same as Saltys!
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Post by den1z on Feb 12, 2017 5:26:37 GMT -5
On recent reflection I've surmised that; a, I play a little less now. b, I've dropped my lights which I love as beacons don't mean a thing and no matter how good or bad I am , a cossack or stalker just ain't helping with gold acquisition, still fun though... Briefly, patiently! c, I'm less dizzy, acclimatising?, even though I'm bouncing up and down tables like a demented rubber ball. I understand, from posts here, that is because I'm possibly on the boarder of a tier and get bounced as others find their right place. Still, there is a certain element of 'meh!' when I pick up my phone to play now. Hopefully it's just the lunar cycle and I'll swiftly return to my happy unicorn state soon. Peace.
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delighter
Destrier
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Post by delighter on Feb 12, 2017 6:27:14 GMT -5
So please excuse me in advance if I did not get the memo or posted in the wrong place but is it not possible to play lower bots anymore with the new MM ?
My top hangar are 8/8 s more or less (9/8, and 6/7 as well) but when i m trying to play with my lower lvl bots (4/6 & 2/4s ) I m still getting the same enemies as in my top hangar.
That makes me really sad... I dont wanna level them all up to be competitive, but there has to be a way to play them all or am I wrong?
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IWantToBeAChickenNug
Destrier
Bye game :D))))
Posts: 49
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Pilot name: Reaper's 镰刀
Platform: iOS
Clan: 东淫西贱南荡北色
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Favorite robot: Carnage
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Post by IWantToBeAChickenNug on Feb 12, 2017 6:56:49 GMT -5
So please excuse me in advance if I did not get the memo or posted in the wrong place but is it not possible to play lower bots anymore with the new MM ? My top hangar are 8/8 s more or less (9/8, and 6/7 as well) but when i m trying to play with my lower lvl bots (4/6 & 2/4s ) I m still getting the same enemies as in my top hangar. That makes me really sad... I dont wanna level them all up to be competitive, but there has to be a way to play them all or am I wrong? Well there technically is, but then it might ruin the game for others. If you want to play lower bots, you will need ti fail miserably for many games, then you can play with lower bots. There is a way to do this without dragging your teammates down, and that is to find people who have the same will as you, make up a platoon of six specifically grouped together to "downgrade" your tier in the new MM, so that your hanger score will be as low as possible, to achieve the goal of playing with lower bots. But if you actually use this to your advantage, and use very high level weapons to crush your opponents, or simply "seal clubbing", is not appreciated.
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IWantToBeAChickenNug
Destrier
Bye game :D))))
Posts: 49
Karma: 8
Pilot name: Reaper's 镰刀
Platform: iOS
Clan: 东淫西贱南荡北色
League: Diamond
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Carnage
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Post by IWantToBeAChickenNug on Feb 12, 2017 7:00:35 GMT -5
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Post by den1z on Feb 12, 2017 7:33:22 GMT -5
So please excuse me in advance if I did not get the memo or posted in the wrong place but is it not possible to play lower bots anymore with the new MM ? My top hangar are 8/8 s more or less (9/8, and 6/7 as well) but when i m trying to play with my lower lvl bots (4/6 & 2/4s ) I m still getting the same enemies as in my top hangar. That makes me really sad... I dont wanna level them all up to be competitive, but there has to be a way to play them all or am I wrong? I'm finding the same so have switched to heavier bots. Although I believe there will be in the future, the ability to play but levels of your choice with same level players. I'm holding out for that.
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delighter
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Post by delighter on Feb 12, 2017 7:41:26 GMT -5
Well there technically is, but then it might ruin the game for others. If you want to play lower bots, you will need ti fail miserably for many games, then you can play with lower bots. There is a way to do this without dragging your teammates down, and that is to find people who have the same will as you, make up a platoon of six specifically grouped together to "downgrade" your tier in the new MM, so that your hanger score will be as low as possible, to achieve the goal of playing with lower bots. But if you actually use this to your advantage, and use very high level weapons to crush your opponents, or simply "seal clubbing", is not appreciated. Ok that is sad as well.. And extremely time-intensive. But thank you, kind sir, for explaining me how to play lower bots in theory. I m a little confused why they do this the way they do it. There are a few games where simple restrictions solve that problem: For example: A lvl 1-3 bot can only carry weapons lvl 1 to 3, at lvl 4 you can carry only lvl 4 to 6 weapons, at lvl 7 weapons lvl 7-9, and at lvl 10 weapons lvl 10-12 . This includes a league system (4 leagues) and provides fair matchups (or at least more fair than this) . Also including Bot restricions to certain leagues. last two leagues are the only ones where heavies or specific weapons are allowed, etc etc.. If you inlcude that average damage stat - which is already there - as well, It should be golden for fair matches. And there is still plenty of room to monetize the game. I sincerely hope they working on something that solves that Matchmaking-Issue because I really love this game, but that MM dynamic as it is at the moment takes more away than necessary in my humble opinion.
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raine
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Post by raine on Feb 12, 2017 12:14:10 GMT -5
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raine
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Post by raine on Feb 12, 2017 12:16:45 GMT -5
5 hours ago IWantToBeAChickenNug said: Also this new MM is just "wrong". Look at the setups in both teams:
no, Pix just decided that it was time for one team to get screwed for the greater good. nothing to see here, all according to plan...
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Post by den1z on Feb 12, 2017 16:28:41 GMT -5
Yay! Another game where the only thing I could do was countdown and hope I lasted more than a few minutes. I'm going to watch some dross on TV now. Walks away sadly shaking head.
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cfunk
Destrier
Posts: 71
Karma: 69
Pilot name: CFunk
Platform: iOS
Clan: [252] Zeon
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Whatever is in my hangar
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Post by cfunk on Feb 12, 2017 20:17:31 GMT -5
All I can say is that I am grateful for strayed's gold buyer's guide and the author of the wp buyer's guide for being able to play in the current War Robots MM setup.
I saved gold for that 5th hangar spot, 4 orkans, a Galahad, and a Lancelot and now I can still play competitively.
Sure, it would've been nice to continue to play in the tiered system to farm gold but at least now I'm forced to play the bots that I played so long to get.
Good times!
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