Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 2:27:42 GMT -5
Wow! This has become a long wicked thread, with many twists, turns and loop-dee loops.
Lot of good information and observations in it, and some, well, not so good.
All due to a simple code change. (Maybe not so simple code after all, considering links in the next post of this thread.)
Just amazing.
I'm still having fun playing the game.
Old man what are you doing up at this hour? Woman leave me alone. Going to play War Robots.
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Jan 22, 2017 2:32:01 GMT -5
There seem to be widespread misconceptions about what Elo is about and how Pixo is using it. Elo doesn't take into account any stats like average damage, and based on what they've told me, hangar score no longer matters in matchmaking. Here's a good introduction to the mechanics of Elo and this is a more in-depth look at the inner workings of the system.
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Post by ivx on Jan 22, 2017 2:56:26 GMT -5
...and based on what they've told me, hangar score no longer matters in matchmaking. If this is currently true, which I guess we don't really know for sure - and if Pixonic keeps it that way - how does that keep medium and light bots relatively desirable to purchase in the game?
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carvr
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Post by carvr on Jan 22, 2017 3:24:54 GMT -5
...and based on what they've told me, hangar score no longer matters in matchmaking. If this is currently true, which I guess we don't really know for sure - and if Pixonic keeps it that way - how does that keep medium and light bots relatively desirable to purchase in the game? Carnage, Galahad and to some extent Gareth are still quite good in high brackets. Stalker is being used commonly and sometimes quite effectively aswell. I do not own a rogatka but it's recently been buffed so maybe we start seeing more of them too. Not likely with its price tag that ties with galahad, though. I wouldn't expect a gepard that has the chassis of a destrier to compete with anything else stronger than a silver medium bot like golem or vityaz. (Don't get me wrong, golem and vityaz are amazing bots with corner shooting ability.) This might be a wrong point of view to some but think about it; Would a lightweight robot with tiny armour be good in a world where every robot has automatic targeting system? No. (Maybe yes for a covert Ops mission but even that doesn't really make much sense since even the lightest bot probably weighs tens, maybe hundreds of tonnes and wouldn't really be able to do those covops missions silently or without being detected. Not to mention we only have beacon battles.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 3:48:47 GMT -5
I have been seeing a lot of Galahad's and Gareth's in the battles that I have had lately. They are quicker than my heavies and more maneuverable. Also with their shields they have given me fits on some of the maps. Especially Dead City with all of it crooks and crannies. Plus they seem to stand up very well to my ECC's, Magnum's and Taran's from frontal attacks. My Orkan's seem to hurt them the quickest. Of course they are more vulnerable if you can get a side or from the rear shot, just like Rhino's where the shield doesn't help.
This is in high gold tier with lvl 11 and 12 bots and lvl 11 and 12 weapons. On the iOS platform.
This being said, I am in the process of upgrading one of each now for future spots in my hangar just from what I have observed.
Old man rambles all the way over to android and starts a new battle.
Can't wait to see the reaction from them when new rating system starts.
Hi ho, hi ho it's off the iPad I go.
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hithere
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Post by hithere on Jan 22, 2017 6:03:09 GMT -5
I think the new MM is absolute rubbish!
It seems to be basically only depending on stats.
So, if you are a good player who wins a lot the game will get rigged to make sure you lose, no matter what you do as a player.
If you are a lousy player the game will get rigged to make sure you win, no matter what you do as a player.
I've seen really good straight lvl 12 solo top gold players with a win rate of about 40%. And I've seen people who are researching the new MM go in with all lvl 1 cossacks and sandbag their way through 50 games (thus hitting 0 kills and 0 damage in their stats) and still have a win rate of about 40%.
Also, the new MM is ridiculously easy to manipulate. Hellbent on being a seal clubber or just want some easy gold? Just take 30-40 min and sandbag yourself through 30-40 games and you'll be down with absolute noob Destriers.
Losses are now a great commodity, it seems like a good advice in the new MM is: "Think you are going to lose this game? Just sandbag ASAP and make sure you do". Then, you got an easy win comming up to equal it out eventually.
Because why would you stay, waste time, keep your kills and damage up when the MM will punish you for it and you still get 0 rewards?
I'm seeing people sandbag to the left and right in my games, check your battle summaries and see if you do to, or am I just being paranoid?
Also, in the old MM you could move around in the tiers and go play with new players and seasoned pros just by adapting your hangar, which was great fun community-wise, this seems to be all gone now.
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haumiblau
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Platform: iOS
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Post by haumiblau on Jan 22, 2017 6:19:26 GMT -5
So I'm not a hardcore gamer and only playing in wintermonth, in the boring time. I'm in an age, where i could be the grandpa of the youngest players here. So i had problems with the gamer slang like elo and clubbing. I had to ask mr. Google for the meaning of such terms.
i play the game since about 3 month, tried all bots which i can buy for silver and weapons also. For me the light bots are the interesting ones, because i like the agility and like short range weapons for infight. So at the end my favorite setup is, what you will call clubbing. I earned some gold easiely and i understand, that a change of mm should be performed to make the game more fair!
but after the new mm for me the light bots and short range wapons are obsolet. I'm dead in1-2 seconds of the first strike without reaching the range of the weapons.So i go to the unliked heavy bots, but have no competitive weapons. I spend few real money, but i will avoid to be a pay to win gamer. So for me the result after the update is, you have to be a pay to win gamer to be competitive!? For me is a pay to win gamer more worse than a clubber!
at the end, the next update should remove all the light bots and the short range weapons when the want to do something for the rookies, because at the end of the day they are obsolet!
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 22, 2017 6:25:59 GMT -5
Elo is a system for matching people, I think, and named after a people.
Clubbing is a wide term. It is "experienced player playing at lower tiers" up to the narrow "5 MagGeps".
Longest thread in new War Robots Forum? And android hasn't even ot it yet.
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Post by Battlemasters rule! on Jan 22, 2017 8:02:12 GMT -5
Ok, let's say this again.... New to MM players gets default Elo. Default Elo is low. Playing raises and establishes your Elo over time. Medium/Low Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default/Unestablished Elo This results into a bad match, but is part of the sorting process. Elstablished Elo players with Medium to Low hangers are the proverbial whipping boy until the system sorts the strong hangers out by establishing their Elos. At High Gold 9/9.5 this was routinely happening to me, seeing lots of 12/12 players mixed with all kings. As my Elo got established I was seeing less and less of the weak hangers, but still lots to TT, then less and less of the Mediums, then less and less of anything 8/8 or less. Now I'm seeing less and less of the 12/12s. A system like this sorts from the top down. Basically TT guys rise higher and and they separate off by establishing a high Elo in addition to their strong Hanger. Then the sorting moves lower through the Elo score and sorts more and more. Basically it settles from the top down, while the bottom and middle stay turbulent for a long time and it doesn't matter how established and fine tuned your Elo is, your weak Hanger is keeping you in the turbulence. For me it looks like most of the TT guys I was facing have established their Elo and are now above me. Sure, I'll see the occasional guy establishing his Elo, but that is getting rarer. It is. Is settling down to High Gold, and will keeps settling lower and lower. The more people play over time the better it gets, but the low to Middle will stay turbulent longer and I bet if we really crunched the numbers I bet we would see this happening, the frequency of the TT guys hitting the low end goes down rapidly as they establish their Elos. I'm seeing signs of it getting sorted and I bet over the next couple of days that'll get lower and lower until the whole system is sorted. So, thank you all the guys with weak hangers and established Elos who are playing tons of games, you're masochistic and helping sort the system, and unfortunately, you're the last to see the benefits of all that work. Thank Zman for this post. It makes a bit more sense now. I must have missed it earlier sorry. And as one of the whipping boys, glad to be of service sir!....I think..... :-( My only question - wouldn't hangar strength in some way influence ELO? In which case a heavy 12/12 hangar should never be fighting a Light 1/1 under any circumstance? I would imagine that there must still be some tiers for the ELO's to be reasonable (but going by the reports, this is not the case). And what about people who change hangars? The ELO must scale if they switch from lights to heavies? I understand the origin of ELO's in chess, and appear to be used in other PvP games, but aren't they more skill based games where you can't dramatically change your configuration? That said, something I have noticed which may or may not be related. I changed my hangar back to default Cossack, Destriers, Vityaz and Golems - but I was still getting silly matches. One battle I was matched against a heavy 10/12 clan squad. They were an impressive squad - and it would have been fun if I and several others in my team weren't using low level lights and mediums.... A little frustrated, I went the whole hog and bought a few Cossacks and left them 1/1 and played with 4 of them. Something someone mentioned in a post about avg damage potentially affecting elo occurred to me, so I resolved to play those damn Cossacks and not fire a shot. The irony is that I've played 12 games with those 4 Cossacks and my team has won about half. I spend the entire time capturing and holding beacons and making a general nuisance of myself to those big, slow lumbering mechs and it was unexpectedly effective! As I have not fired a shot, the other thing is my avg damage has progressively plummeted and with that, I am starting to see less ridiculous matchings. I'm now seeing Griffins 6/8 and a lot less Stalkers and shield bots, but more Mag Geps unfortunately. Can't have everything. That said, it still doesn't take a lvl 6/6 Taran/Magnum Griffin long to tear up a lvl 1 Cossack. :-( So previously, I was fighting and contributing to my avg damage and the mechs were enormously above my level. As my avg damage score has dropped, I'm seeing a genuine change in the type of opponents (and team mates). There are still aberrations like a Stalker 9/10, but this is likely because of what you describe - their ELO is out of whack, not mine. So maybe player level and avg damage and other stats influence elo?
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salty af
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Pilot name: sierra alpha lima tango
Platform: iOS
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Cossack
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Post by salty af on Jan 22, 2017 8:13:05 GMT -5
I don't think sandbagging will become an issue, I'm sure Pix won't be dumb enough to make the rewards the same in low and high tiers.
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Post by Battlemasters rule! on Jan 22, 2017 8:24:27 GMT -5
Hmm...bit rude...but meh, I'll take it. How magnanimous of you, given that you came here denigrating other posters first. okay, so firstly, I started the game a week or two ago, and a don't have much time to play it thanks to having to work, so no, I don't play it a lot. Good for you. So with your casual 1-2 weeks of invested time, you're taking the piss out of others who have potentially played since it started and feel aggrieved? If you've only been playing 1-2 weeks as you claim, it would be more prudent to keep your inflammatory opinions to yourself until you better understand how many months/years of effort is being adversely affected. And where does it say you have to progress in war robots? That's a joke, right..? Right?! Are you saying, that your preference in video games is to never progress, and just stay in Lvl 1 whatever's, forever? You have a very narrow viewpoint. People measure progress in different ways. I don't play games to stay at lvl 1 and nor am I here. I'm slowing down my progress. It's a game. There are many ways to play a game - being it board, role playing or computer game. I don't intend to play in clans at the highest level. That just isn't my thing. Sorry you can't comprehend that. Okay, secondly, what's wrong with simplistic arguments? Do you not want everyone to understand what I'm saying? You may not if realised mate, but not everyone here has a degree in rocket science, so you can shove your condescendence up your arse. Further more, you might as well of just agreed with me. You said that you didn't like facing noobs, but, the thing is, you still ARE ruining the game for noobs who don't have a chance against experienced players, so don't sit there and say "oh, I don't LIKE fighting newbies, I just do" and whatever, because like I said in my last, overly simple comment, you don't need geps to pummel noobs (even though you DO have one). And, to your last snarky, condescending Etc. Comment, firstly, I don't appreciate being thought of as a child, and secondly, I'm Auzzie, so get ?firetruck?in used to it, I'm not here to denigrate anyone, I'm just trying to get the fact the the new MM is fine through your thick skulls, so y'all will stop complaining to the admins and whatnot like it will change anything. As everyone has said so many times, let the MM flatten out, try a different hangar, b flattered that the MM thinks your as skilled as maxed players. OMG I won a single Gep. Light up the Seal Clubber alert. This has been covered. Having a gep (or geps) doesn't make anyone a clubber. It's how they're fitted out and used that makes a difference, but these subtleties are lost on you. This argument appears to be commonly used here by those with an agenda and who seek to force their views forward regardless of counterpoints. Also, unusually, most genuine Aussies spell it AUSSIE, unless this is a generational thing and Aussie was too hard to spell or something. As a real Aussie, claiming to be an Aussie doesn't give you a free pass to be an obnoxious prat online. An arsehole is an arsehole, regardless of nationality. I can't make my arguments simple enough for you to understand so I won't try. I'll continue playing the game as best I can, discussing it with people capable of reading, and just ignore your belittling posts until you have something useful to contribute after you finish your second week in game.
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Post by Battlemasters rule! on Jan 22, 2017 8:35:00 GMT -5
I don't think sandbagging will become an issue, I'm sure Pix won't be dumb enough to make the rewards the same in low and high tiers. By sandbagging, do you mean just running beacons? If so, for me it is just a test and not a sustainable strategy. At some point, you have to fight and then your avg will go up. It has been a fun experiment, but challenging because sometimes you just want to take out the enemy Cossack who is blocking you from a beacon. I just want to lower my avg damage to see if it influences the MM. To my coarse testing, it does, but it could be other factors too as ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed says it doesn't use player stats and hangar scores. If that is the case, switching hangars to play with friends or clan mates is pointless now. :-(
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 22, 2017 8:35:16 GMT -5
Ok, let's say this again.... New to MM players gets default Elo. Default Elo is low. Playing raises and establishes your Elo over time. Medium/Low Hanger + Established Elo = Strong Hanger + Default/Unestablished Elo This results into a bad match, but is part of the sorting process. Elstablished Elo players with Medium to Low hangers are the proverbial whipping boy until the system sorts the strong hangers out by establishing their Elos. At High Gold 9/9.5 this was routinely happening to me, seeing lots of 12/12 players mixed with all kings. As my Elo got established I was seeing less and less of the weak hangers, but still lots to TT, then less and less of the Mediums, then less and less of anything 8/8 or less. Now I'm seeing less and less of the 12/12s. A system like this sorts from the top down. Basically TT guys rise higher and and they separate off by establishing a high Elo in addition to their strong Hanger. Then the sorting moves lower through the Elo score and sorts more and more. Basically it settles from the top down, while the bottom and middle stay turbulent for a long time and it doesn't matter how established and fine tuned your Elo is, your weak Hanger is keeping you in the turbulence. For me it looks like most of the TT guys I was facing have established their Elo and are now above me. Sure, I'll see the occasional guy establishing his Elo, but that is getting rarer. It is. Is settling down to High Gold, and will keeps settling lower and lower. The more people play over time the better it gets, but the low to Middle will stay turbulent longer and I bet if we really crunched the numbers I bet we would see this happening, the frequency of the TT guys hitting the low end goes down rapidly as they establish their Elos. I'm seeing signs of it getting sorted and I bet over the next couple of days that'll get lower and lower until the whole system is sorted. So, thank you all the guys with weak hangers and established Elos who are playing tons of games, you're masochistic and helping sort the system, and unfortunately, you're the last to see the benefits of all that work. Thank Zman for this post. It makes a bit more sense now. I must have missed it earlier sorry. And as one of the whipping boys, glad to be of service sir!....I think..... :-( My only question - wouldn't hangar strength in some way influence ELO? In which case a heavy 12/12 hangar should never be fighting a Light 1/1 under any circumstance? I would imagine that there must still be some tiers for the ELO's to be reasonable (but going by the reports, this is not the case). And what about people who change hangars? The ELO must scale if they switch from lights to heavies? I understand the origin of ELO's in chess, and appear to be used in other PvP games, but aren't they more skill based games where you can't dramatically change your configuration? That said, something I have noticed which may or may not be related. I changed my hangar back to default Cossack, Destriers, Vityaz and Golems - but I was still getting silly matches. One battle I was matched against a heavy 10/12 clan squad. They were an impressive squad - and it would have been fun if I and several others in my team weren't using low level lights and mediums.... A little frustrated, I went the whole hog and bought a few Cossacks and left them 1/1 and played with 4 of them. Something someone mentioned in a post about avg damage potentially affecting elo occurred to me, so I resolved to play those damn Cossacks and not fire a shot. The irony is that I've played 12 games with those 4 Cossacks and my team has won about half. I spend the entire time capturing and holding beacons and making a general nuisance of myself to those big, slow lumbering mechs and it was unexpectedly effective! As I have not fired a shot, the other thing is my avg damage has progressively plummeted and with that, I am starting to see less ridiculous matchings. I'm now seeing Griffins 6/8 and a lot less Stalkers and shield bots, but more Mag Geps unfortunately. Can't have everything. That said, it still doesn't take a lvl 6/6 Taran/Magnum Griffin long to tear up a lvl 1 Cossack. :-( So previously, I was fighting and contributing to my avg damage and the mechs were enormously above my level. As my avg damage score has dropped, I'm seeing a genuine change in the type of opponents (and team mates). There are still aberrations like a Stalker 9/10, but this is likely because of what you describe - their ELO is out of whack, not mine. So maybe player level and avg damage and other stats influence elo? In my opinion, average damage would be the best way to take player skill as one of the basis for ELO. I also suggested it in this thread but not sure if anyone suggested it before me. Average damage would let you sort the weaker hangars away from the stronger ones, while keeping the clubbers away from the seals. A weak hangar would have lower damage mainly because the HP of the bots they are fighting are low. This will also create separation for 3 slot strong units and 5 slot strong units because they won't be doing as much damage. Also 5 mediums > 3 heavies. So matches between silvers with 5 slots and golds with 3 slots isn't entirely unfair, which can be sorted through average damage again, because obviously 5 slots will do more damage than 3. Furthermore a skilled player will do more damage than his compatriots with similar level bots. Meaning his skill puts him at a level to compete with bigger boys despite the weaker bot handicap. This allows the matchmaker to consider his superior skill despite hangar weakness in making matches. All in all I see it as one of the best stats to use in this ELO system, as properly used, this one stat can take into account both hangar strength and skill of the player. In fact, it's a better parameter for hangar strength since a hangar of 5 4/8 mediums is potentially stronger than a hangar of 3 6/8 heavies, due to the fact that 5 level 4 mediums has potentially equal or higher total hp than 3 level 6 heavies, making it actually a stronger hangar when used right.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Jan 22, 2017 9:46:13 GMT -5
I think some algorithm between damage and beacon capture would be good. I want to see some lights and fast mediums even in upper tier play, not just tanks. We had that with the old MM already.
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Jan 22, 2017 18:29:35 GMT -5
Average damage doesn't mean much. Running solo with a top tier hangar I can average 700k ->1 mill. Clan squads my average drops to 500k or less (better team mates soak up more damage individually).
Conversely, win rates drop in solo play while win rates rise in clan squads. Randoms are (generally) poor substitute for solid top tier players from my clan.
Sorry, avg damage simply wouldn't help enough due to the dynamic nature of the games.
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Jan 22, 2017 18:52:19 GMT -5
Not taking hangar strength into account at all is terrible, imo. Hopefully not the case. Or changes if so..
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Post by SGT D00M! on Jan 22, 2017 20:45:36 GMT -5
Average damage doesn't mean much. Running solo with a top tier hangar I can average 700k ->1 mill. Clan squads my average drops to 500k or less (better team mates soak up more damage individually). Conversely, win rates drop in solo play while win rates rise in clan squads. Randoms are (generally) poor substitute for solid top tier players from my clan. Sorry, avg damage simply wouldn't help enough due to the dynamic nature of the games. Yeah, but win% can be a fickle indicator of "skill" in a multiplayer game as well. All they had to do was make the Gep speed vary by level like all the other bots and the the cries for Elo would have gone away. Another good tactic would have been to delay the MM change when downgrading hangars (48 hrs?) to kill farming and to push hangars up a tier after a certain win % (80 or 90% maybe) to kill tier camping. With current Elo, damage done to damage taken? Maybe a combined team (red and blue) ranking with an algorithm between damage/beacons and kills? ug, my head hurts, glad I'm not on an iPhone.
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maracas
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Post by maracas on Jan 22, 2017 21:38:35 GMT -5
why do i feel it is a big fat lie luring us in a big trap just to steal all of our eu??? nevertheless i will keep farming until i get galahad, 2 fury and 1 ancid yeah... long way to go...
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Post by Battlemasters rule! on Jan 22, 2017 22:49:19 GMT -5
Seems like The Warwolves (#1 Clan I think it said) have found a way around the system. A squad of 4 Warwolves (mostly 4/12 Geps) are schlepping amongst us plebs. They aren't even showing up to the Battle - they're just using the two non squad members to fight the 6 enemy until the inevitable and quick loss. Poor buggers, mustn't be able to afford the silver to repair their mechs. Maybe we should organise a collection?
I can only guess that this must lower their ELO (as I have not seen 4/12 Geps in quite awhile), although I would have hoped that failing to even show up to a Battle would not count?
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Post by Battlemasters rule! on Jan 22, 2017 23:07:18 GMT -5
In my opinion, average damage would be the best way to take player skill as one of the basis for ELO. I also suggested it in this thread but not sure if anyone suggested it before me. Average damage would let you sort the weaker hangars away from the stronger ones, while keeping the clubbers away from the seals. A weak hangar would have lower damage mainly because the HP of the bots they are fighting are low. This will also create separation for 3 slot strong units and 5 slot strong units because they won't be doing as much damage. Also 5 mediums > 3 heavies. So matches between silvers with 5 slots and golds with 3 slots isn't entirely unfair, which can be sorted through average damage again, because obviously 5 slots will do more damage than 3. Furthermore a skilled player will do more damage than his compatriots with similar level bots. Meaning his skill puts him at a level to compete with bigger boys despite the weaker bot handicap. This allows the matchmaker to consider his superior skill despite hangar weakness in making matches. All in all I see it as one of the best stats to use in this ELO system, as properly used, this one stat can take into account both hangar strength and skill of the player. In fact, it's a better parameter for hangar strength since a hangar of 5 4/8 mediums is potentially stronger than a hangar of 3 6/8 heavies, due to the fact that 5 level 4 mediums has potentially equal or higher total hp than 3 level 6 heavies, making it actually a stronger hangar when used right. You're right that average damage does incorporate those, but I foresee that it would be too easy to manipulate and it also has some limitations. There are some games where I focus on capturing beacons and do little damage, but the contribution is important - particularly when it is a middle contested beacon. So damage alone is not reflective of player skill or the deadliness of their hangar when used judiciously. I see hangars full of heavies that just walk into a cross fire and blast - they do lots of damage, but use no tactics and could be much more effective. But your point does hold merit in that a skillful pilot with the same mechs should theoretically do more damage by lasting longer and being more opportune in their attacks. The game is certainly about blasting each other to bits, but you don't want the game to purely be DPS - that is what I like about the beacon element of this game. Imho, the balance between these two elements provides it more longevity than just building the heaviest hangar and holding down the red button. There definitely needs to be some discrimination between a hangar with 3 vs 5 mechs. Some battles are won purely on attrition which has nothing to do with skill. I'd also suggest hangar averages rather than strongest - which is hurting the newer players most. Before I saw TintheFiend's post, I wondered what had happened when I started using my Leo and my opponents were suddenly way too powerful. Once I understood the need for a balanced hangar, I parked the heavies and worked on my light beacon runner and med knife fighters/ranged. I agree that the system should be more than just elo, and incorporate other elements. By including hangar strength/averages, you can then change hangars at will and still be tiered properly.
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carvr
Destrier
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Post by carvr on Jan 22, 2017 23:32:51 GMT -5
Seems like The Warwolves (#1 Clan I think it said) have found a way around the system. A squad of 4 Warwolves (mostly 4/12 Geps) are schlepping amongst us plebs. They aren't even showing up to the Battle - they're just using the two non squad members to fight the 6 enemy until the inevitable and quick loss. Poor buggers, mustn't be able to afford the silver to repair their mechs. Maybe we should organise a collection? I can only guess that this must lower their ELO (as I have not seen 4/12 Geps in quite awhile), although I would have hoped that failing to even show up to a Battle would not count? Really, truly, madly, deeply sad and pathetic thing to do. I hope pix finds a way around that. It would be lovely to kick the arses of those peasants but then again, I don't have geps and they do what you say in my "bracket"... Seriously... that is even lower than pathetic.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 22, 2017 23:36:46 GMT -5
Seems like The Warwolves (#1 Clan I think it said) have found a way around the system. A squad of 4 Warwolves (mostly 4/12 Geps) are schlepping amongst us plebs. They aren't even showing up to the Battle - they're just using the two non squad members to fight the 6 enemy until the inevitable and quick loss. Poor buggers, mustn't be able to afford the silver to repair their mechs. Maybe we should organise a collection? I can only guess that this must lower their ELO (as I have not seen 4/12 Geps in quite awhile), although I would have hoped that failing to even show up to a Battle would not count? Really, truly, madly, deeply sad and pathetic thing to do. I hope pix finds a way around that. Seriously... that is even lower than pathetic. Already being addressed by Pixo and posted in this thread: war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/1657/developer-news-1-21-17they are are looking at penalties for players who intentionally quit matches to suppress win rates to fight lower level opposition. There are already a couple of threads discussing this topic.
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carvr
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Post by carvr on Jan 22, 2017 23:39:24 GMT -5
That's great news. I hate that kind of behavior even if I'm never the victim.
Plus, BS like that is one of the things that causes games to fade out.
Hopefully they give the harshest fair punishment to regular 0 damage 0 cap pilots too. In 3 weeks, I almost never had a battle that has 5 active friendlies. Almost always at least 1 afk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 1:30:10 GMT -5
Also games where one player turns up about 2 minutes into the fight, 5vs6 isn't much fun. Being number 6 to turn up and finding the battle underway and beacons capped already blows.
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Post by ivx on Jan 23, 2017 2:15:16 GMT -5
Also games where one player turns up about 2 minutes into the fight, 5vs6 isn't much fun. Being number 6 to turn up and finding the battle underway and beacons capped already blows. Yeah but this happens because the game drops people into late fights when someone drops out or isn't there to begin with. I mean, it's genuine. Never more than half a minute late for me though. As for dropping win rates... It's a bit desperate. It's just a game, if you can't play it you should move on and not spend hours fluctuating between tiers to try to game the system for a $3 real life equivalent advantage for hours of play. Can't see how it can be fun for them.
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Jan 23, 2017 12:28:32 GMT -5
This is going to be a mess for a while I fear. And this is not fun anymore. I never know what I am dropping into as far as competition. I started to try various hangars to see if anything works consistently.
My win rate was 64%. My "test" hangar of L1 Cossacks with W8 Orkans and Tarans (medium and light bots) matched me with a maxed 12/12 Red and multiple 6/6-9 heavies including Carnages and Rhinos. I repeated 3x to confirm. It did. What is that! I am def OK with using weapon levels more now for MM, but there must be accounting for bot weight levels.
For test hangar 2 I swapped to 2 Aphid Geps, 2 Thunder Taran Boas, and a Thunder Taran Mag Golem: all weapons at level 8.
The MM match...... for a previously solid medium Silver hangar...... multiple Griffs, Galahads, Rhinos, Carnages at 6-9/6-10. Not fun, mostly because my squad mates aren't those shielded and WSP bots. I get high damage and squad is crushed. I don't know what PIX is doing but the MM is a mess and in flux as far as I can tell. MM seems to change every day.
I don't see ELO sorting this out with win rates alone. There needs to be an accounting for bot weights and likely hangar averaging.
Isn't this what the Test Server is for? I have never seen any mention of Pix requesting testing for matchmaking, only weapons and bots.
I am in IT and routinely use multiple test servers for software implementations. Pix could test all this out with a trusted user group before creating this crazy unpredictable situation in the live server. I am sure they have to some extent and want to give them credit, but MM seems dysfunctional.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 23, 2017 12:41:35 GMT -5
Thump - where have you been for the last 5 days while we in IOS were going thru the same thing? Welcome to the new world. Throw out a lot of the stuff you thought you know about how to create match ups with bot and wep levels and types - hanger scores as we used to know them are irrelevant. Get bot levels more inline with wep levels as 1/8 or 4/9 combos leave speed and hit points on the table. From my experience so far, win rate and wep level (weighting unknown) seem to drive my matches as the system settles down. Transient players (like 12/12 pilots) moving up or down will gradually settle outside of your Elo score range, giving you more consistent matches....but the number of matches to do this is a big variable with players, especially those in the middle level range on weapons. We all wished the new system would have had a smoother introduction or at least something from Pixo on telling us about it to set some expectations....maybe since it is across all of us we may hear something from them.
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Jan 23, 2017 13:09:56 GMT -5
I agree. There is no more creating advantage with high weapons and low bot levels. My weapon levels seem to be the most consistent match with Reds so far. My low bot levels don't allow survival.
Do you think bot penalties are also eliminated?
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 23, 2017 13:16:09 GMT -5
I agree. There is no more creating advantage with high weapons and low bot levels. My weapon levels seem to be the most consistent match with Reds so far. My low bot levels don't allow survival. Do you think bot penalties are also eliminated? Yes - the only penalty is not having 12/12 equipment right off the bat. You can run whatever you want now days - brit bots, wsp bots and weps, gold bots, etc. Seems like wep levels and not types are one of the criteria for MM. But the amount of time for the Elo thing to adjust is also something in play....it is not quick. Drop in 1/1 grasshoppers and you will still face the same opposition until your win rate tanks so much that you then may see 1/1 to 3/3 competitors. And then you can drop in 12/12 equipment and ride it upwards for 25 or so matches....that is the new version of clubbing. Well, it is more like Bludgeoning because it is even more brutal - please don't do it as it really is a crap way of playing, but it is what some on IOS are doing as a way of protest that is causing even more instability. Hang in there!
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Post by Sybill on Jan 23, 2017 13:21:45 GMT -5
Maybe they adjusted mm a bit before they released it on Android with the data they had from iOS? I run 6/8 mediums and heavies right now with a win rate about 74% and yes, competition is strong, but I get no completely unbalanced matches. I loose quite a bit, but as damage is soaring high make much more ag than before.
Right now it feels not too bad. After having played for about two hours now, I begin to like it.
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