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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 5, 2017 21:02:50 GMT -5
I remember making a similiar thread before, but i still find myself doing underwhelming; rarely do i do above average. Usually i do just average. Here are some that i think are my problems.
All bots: I don't do enough cornering, but when i am engaging the thought of cornering doesn't come across.
Over-Aggressive; charge onto nerarest white/red beacon, resulting me to get meched out in some games. Gareth and Rhino are worst offenders. I also charge with MRS as a result. Experimenting Poor man's Fury Natasha to prevent to a degree, but it is really slow... And can't use thunder carn properly.
Lack of situational awareness: Worst offender is Gareth. I hardly notice if anyone else is about to get me.
Gareth: Death by MRS; When i see a RDB or Trident user on a beacon i want to cap, i die. Such as A/C beacon(DC) at start of the game, after capping B/D, I go there and Trident Carn/RDB anything wants to cap it. I fly to the sky.
Not enough cornering; see above, hits especially hard in a squishy bot.
Hellfire Rhino: What purpose does this bot serve in battles? I used him as side beacon capper and that doesn't seem to be working.
How do I fix these? Or better, how to practice?
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Post by Fιεχροιητ™ on Jan 5, 2017 21:12:08 GMT -5
What levels are your robots and weapons?... I remember one of the best things that helped was running max weapons on level one robots like a Cossack to work on my aiming and situational awareness. Forces you to learn how to play smart and make the best of every situation.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 5, 2017 21:30:54 GMT -5
All 6/8.
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Post by moody on Jan 5, 2017 21:37:43 GMT -5
Get yourself a bunch of pinata pattons (say lev 3/5) and start hunting with them. A slow fragile bot with a long cooldown is going to teach you situational awareness. (if it kills you).
All of what you are talking about I have issues with. A way around it that doesn't really teach anything is to use a tank. Either a Boa or a Leo depending on the tier that can take a lot of punishment if you are over exposed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:41:27 GMT -5
Get yourself a bunch of pinata pattons (say lev 3/5) and start hunting with them. A slow fragile bot with a long cooldown is going to teach you situational awareness. (if it kills you). All of what you are talking about I have issues with. A way around it that doesn't really teach anything is to use a tank. Either a Boa or a Leo depending on the tier that can take a lot of punishment if you are over exposed. Go 4/6 thunder shlutze + 1x Cossack Taran + 1x Mag Destrier. It will teach you when to take out enemies, when to go in and push for beacons/enemies, how to cornershoot effectively (only for cossack) and knife fighting strategies when facing stronger opponents like Gepards.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 5, 2017 21:42:25 GMT -5
What levels are your robots and weapons?... I remember one of the best things that helped was running max weapons on level one robots like a Cossack to work on my aiming and situational awareness. Forces you to learn how to play smart and make the best of every situation. Was literally about to suggest this. I wouldn't even bother with max weapons (unless you already had them, as Flex may have). Just buy a hangars' worth of straight Cossacks and practice, practice, practice. Maybe mix in a Destrier, which is fragile enough to make you want to develop peripheral awareness- but (crucially) in an environment where you won't get melted in your tracks for making the wrong decision. Don't put your priority on winning or losing. Learn to perfect cornershooting. FOr instance, on Shenzhen, get in the routine of running along the upper or lower cross-streets, capping the mid-high or mid-low beacon (depending on where you spawn) and continuing on to the corner where you'll get to practice every. single. game.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 5, 2017 21:44:36 GMT -5
Get yourself a bunch of pinata pattons (say lev 3/5) and start hunting with them. A slow fragile bot with a long cooldown is going to teach you situational awareness. (if it kills you). All of what you are talking about I have issues with. A way around it that doesn't really teach anything is to use a tank. Either a Boa or a Leo depending on the tier that can take a lot of punishment if you are over exposed. This is excellent guidance, too. I learned the most about situational awareness when I bought my newbie Gepard, which came with Pinatas. That long cooldown, which is a mix of avoiding retribution and setting up your next shot, is superb at brain training.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:46:34 GMT -5
I remember making a similiar thread before, but i still find myself doing underwhelming; rarely do i do above average. Usually i do just average. Here are some that i think are my problems. All bots: I don't do enough cornering, but when i am engaging the thought of cornering doesn't come across. Over-Aggressive; charge onto nerarest white/red beacon, resulting me to get meched out in some games. Gareth and Rhino are worst offenders. I also charge with MRS as a result. Experimenting Poor man's Fury Natasha to prevent to a degree, but it is really slow... And can't use thunder carn properly. Lack of situational awareness: Worst offender is Gareth. I hardly notice if anyone else is about to get me. Gareth: Death by MRS; When i see a RDB or Trident user on a beacon i want to cap, i die. Such as A/C beacon(DC) at start of the game, after capping B/D, I go there and Trident Carn/RDB anything wants to cap it. I fly to the sky. Not enough cornering; see above, hits especially hard in a squishy bot. Hellfire Rhino: What purpose does this bot serve in battles? I used him as side beacon capper and that doesn't seem to be working. How do I fix these? Or better, how to practice? I use Gareth as the last bot I play as, when you must heavily push for beacons. It takes that role very well when most player are on their last plasma Griffins that are jumping around at half health. For Orkan Mag Rhino, it is purely a distraction and an all offensive meatbag. Orkan Mag is best suited for keeping and suppressing enemies to stay out of canter beacon (with mags) and if they do make a run for it, then you unload.
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Post by mechbond on Jan 5, 2017 21:52:02 GMT -5
Cornering just takes practice and isn't always needed depending who you are facing and what bot you are in, but I'll admit I need to do more of it too.
Time yourself when it comes to aggressiveness, analyze the battlefield and your surroundings.. It's better to flank/hide/walk away than pop out, do 20K dmg and die.
Same as above for awareness.
As far as Rhino and Caranage go, I'd say same thing for both of them. It just takes time and practice. I used to rush in with Rhino and stand there like an idiot, do meh damage and die. The key to Rhino is all above + knowing when to be offensive and especially when to be defensive, shield is great but I overused it when I just got my Rhino. It's should be only used for charge and when reloading. Just takes time to master and then really pays off in satisfaction. Carnage is even better, due to it's squishy nature I used to die a lot, sometimes before even doing any damage. You have to hide/rush/ambush in a timely manner and I wish I had a "guide" for it, for me it just took time and practice. Once you are at least semi-decent with it it's a freaking joy. Few days ago I sneaked into enemy spawn on Springfield map, they were on the ledge at the end of the map, nd didn't notice me for good 2+ minutes. I killed 3 of their campers, few others that spawned, then just sat there while Thunders recharged and bots were spawning around me. Finished the game with 730K dmg and only used Carnage.
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Post by petevb on Jan 5, 2017 22:54:43 GMT -5
Very good question. Most people naturally tend to blame their tools; in reality it's usually the craftsman that's at fault. Recognizing this as you have is a critical step... When I wanted to get better I sought to learn from better players, and I still do. Perhaps the best way to do this is to actively watch video. You're getting "target fixation", sensory overload, and you're making poor decisions as a result. What you really need to do is slow the game down so that your brain can catch up. Luckily with video you can do this... I would watch Adrian's video's here: www.youtube.com/channel/UCk_jiByxmYqfZ11tYl0OCOwPause the video regularly and ask yourself what he's doing differently and what you'd do next. See if you can remember who's where on the battlefield, in what bots and at what ranges. You'll get better at answering these questions in slow motion, but more important you'll also get better at full speed. You'll also pick up tips, strong positions, etc. I'd start there and see how it goes...
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Post by B30RLL on Jan 5, 2017 23:04:23 GMT -5
Agree with petevb above. Remembering what bots/weaps and matching with tags is very useful skill. Many youtubers do this. Check out Stew Pendous and Lloyd Le-Mar (aka Ace Thunder) they provide walkthrough of their thought process. Here's a great tutorial from acethunder that broke the internet when it came out. Will be esp. helpful for your gary play.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 0:13:06 GMT -5
I remember making a similiar thread before, but i still find myself doing underwhelming; rarely do i do above average. Usually i do just average. Here are some that i think are my problems. All bots: I don't do enough cornering, but when i am engaging the thought of cornering doesn't come across. Over-Aggressive; charge onto nerarest white/red beacon, resulting me to get meched out in some games. Gareth and Rhino are worst offenders. I also charge with MRS as a result. Experimenting Poor man's Fury Natasha to prevent to a degree, but it is really slow... And can't use thunder carn properly. Lack of situational awareness: Worst offender is Gareth. I hardly notice if anyone else is about to get me. Gareth: Death by MRS; When i see a RDB or Trident user on a beacon i want to cap, i die. Such as A/C beacon(DC) at start of the game, after capping B/D, I go there and Trident Carn/RDB anything wants to cap it. I fly to the sky. Not enough cornering; see above, hits especially hard in a squishy bot. Hellfire Rhino: What purpose does this bot serve in battles? I used him as side beacon capper and that doesn't seem to be working. How do I fix these? Or better, how to practice? Cornering boils down to C-Strafing, when you approach the corner, practice doing a semi circle into, away from, out of, and then back into cover, you never EVER want to fizzle from your legs being pointed in the worst possible direction when you are peeping out to fire. Pulling deeper into cover before actually attempting to corner shoot will also give you two possible advantages: 1: Discovering whether or not your opponent is waiting to engage you, and 2:Possibly baiting a rocket salvo from beyond splash range. Rhino is meant to be an over agressive meat bag, but, when approaching Reds, it's best to stop at 50-100M from your max engagement range to see just how many reds are headed your way. Remember what direction you can charge with your rhino, if there are too many reds to take on, head on, take the safest route to your nearest ally. Acethunder made an excellent point about situational awareness, when your munitions are tapped, feel free to look around while attempting to break off the engagement. Rhino's slow turn speed while charging can be a strength as well 「bum-bum」 a drawback, you can snap the camera 45-90 degrees quickly, then back to center before you turn off course. MRS is a pain to deal with, but your best bet is NOT making a B-line toward them, but instead sticking to cover and flanking. Flanking is a bit more difficult against squads, but in solo play, all you have to do is listen for their volley launched at someone else, barrel in and bite hard. If you count to 11 while advancing, and duck back into cover by 12, you should be safe if they turn to attack you.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 6, 2017 0:49:42 GMT -5
For Video watching suggestions, I would after getting my home internet back. Don't want to waste my cellular data on videos. I have seen Acethunder's vids, but hasn't been able to apply. Will rewatch; have forgotten most lessons already.
I guess one thing i forgot to mention is i don't play with sounds turned on.
I will try out 5 pinata patton 1/5, I don't exactly have spare weapons that are good to corner with anyways...
Edit: Well not 5. 2 pinata patton and 3 thunder schutze. I don't want to waste so many Ag just for that.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 6, 2017 1:48:01 GMT -5
Ran the hangar three times.
First match was on Shenzhen. Raked first damage. Used both patton and one schutze. First kill was a galahad that engaged my pinata patton shield up... died in one salvo, sweet. Improved ambush skills i think.
Second match was on canyon. Second in damage. Pinata pattons died very quickly.
Third was on springfield. First damage, A vs E spawn. Got E, wanted to camp on A twice with patton but both died. Schitzes lasted till very end though.
I feel like it's not helping very much?
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acethunder
GI. Patton
Posts: 136
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Pilot name: Ace Thunder!
Platform: iOS
Clan: Wiki
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Gary
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Post by acethunder on Jan 6, 2017 1:49:30 GMT -5
Thank you for the shoutout B30RLL . I "broke the internet" you say eh, ha. loopI understand how you may not have been able to apply some of the thinking presented in the Tactician series due to how it's indirectly delivered. The next one I have planned is looking to address this by focusing on logical decision making, but this time I will pause mid action and explain the choices based upon prior knowledge of the scenario (hopefully adding visual aids too if my editing skills are up to the task!) and then unpausing to see the consequence of such. One reason for trying this is to add more variety to the series (and keep myself interested), second is that a more directly explained method with clear breaks to intake the information may be more palatable. Will let you know when I release it and hopefully it may assist you in some way, however minor.
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Post by BLYTHE on Jan 6, 2017 2:10:00 GMT -5
I think it all boils down to practice really. I do enjoy using a variety of bots and try to have one of each in my hangar. But in the beginning I used the same bot over and over till operation became second nature to me. If there was a certain bot I dreaded using, I'd use it first then realize, eventually, that it isn't so bad after all. Bots that gave me some trouble (and sometimes still do) are the stalker and fujin. To be honest though we all develop our own playing style and the bots we use/prefer are highly reflective of that.
I agree with petevd, watching vids really gives one a more varied insight into the game. Adrian, Phoenix, Stew Pendous, and Warlock all have very different styles but they're all very good.
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Post by Strayed on Jan 6, 2017 2:28:44 GMT -5
Honestly, I haven't played in the higher tiers in a long time so I'm fairly out of practice.
My faults would be:
Not agressive enough, can't pick a move and stick with it.
Reactions aren't what they used to be, it takes a second for me to start effectively reacting to a problem now unlike before in which I had memorized plans of contigency for nearly every bot I would come across
Forgot strategies for the bots that I used to use. No longer that great with the pdb rhino, I'm decent with the plasma galahad, but it kinda sucks not being as good with my favorite bot setup anymore.
It would help to have a trident fury as well, currently all I have is a trident carnage. I may get a second galahad first though
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 6, 2017 2:38:29 GMT -5
I forgot to mention:
Natasha: When do I eject from a MRS? Reading a thread is easy, knowing when in battle and practicing it isn't.
All bots: Enemy weapon Identification; I just got killed from the side trying to get to the center beacon in yama lategame by a PDB griff in Thunder Carnage. The center beacon had a TT boa, while i didn't notice a PDB griff below the bridge. When i first saw him jumping i thought it wasn't PDB. Turns out i was wrong, costing the game. Didn't help i don't use sounds...
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acethunder
GI. Patton
Posts: 136
Karma: 224
Pilot name: Ace Thunder!
Platform: iOS
Clan: Wiki
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Gary
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Post by acethunder on Jan 6, 2017 7:19:08 GMT -5
I forgot to mention: Natasha: When do I eject from a MRS? Reading a thread is easy, knowing when in battle and practicing it isn't. All bots: Enemy weapon Identification; I just got killed from the side trying to get to the center beacon in yama lategame by a PDB griff in Thunder Carnage. The center beacon had a TT boa, while i didn't notice a PDB griff below the bridge. When i first saw him jumping i thought it wasn't PDB. Turns out i was wrong, costing the game. Didn't help i don't use sounds... Same issue here. Even more applicable in the higher tiers with Tridents and RDB's abound. I'm forced to memorise names of who has what, made even more difficult by the fact I play predominantly with Asians. We need a Scan ability
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Post by B30RLL on Jan 6, 2017 7:35:15 GMT -5
acethunder yeah there's a great vid on YT precisely on that topic!
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acethunder
GI. Patton
Posts: 136
Karma: 224
Pilot name: Ace Thunder!
Platform: iOS
Clan: Wiki
League: Gold
Server Region: Asia
Favorite robot: Gary
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Post by acethunder on Jan 6, 2017 7:42:36 GMT -5
acethunder yeah there's a great vid on YT precisely on that topic! Ha, I must admit the guy makes a good point! He needs to work on his thumbnails though, so unprofessional.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 7:47:04 GMT -5
OP: what has worked somewhat well for me, is to get into the habit of *always* scanning the battlefield if I'm not immediately about to enter a confrontation. E.g. while going from A to B I will rotate to get a lock on to every red bot, (for instance starting from left to right). Mentally note down their ranges. Now you know where each one is on the map. With experience, you will also have a good idea if they are behind cover. If you're doing a 20 second run from spawn, you should have enough time to lock on to every red bot twice and you can then use the change in distance (relative to your own direction and speed) to estimate where they are moving and how fast, and this info (combined with what shots you can hear and see) you can use to guess at what bot + loadout they are using. This is not easy, but you'll get better at it if you try, and eventually you'll have a mindmap of the entire red team. If you get really good at it, you'll begin to notice your team as well and be able to capitalize on it to generate as many 2:1 or otherwise favorable confrontations. You'll need to change your movement control counter to the way you are looking to run in a straight line, but that should be pretty easy to learn.
I'm not sure the above is the best possible strategy and tbh I never really got the idea to watch youtube videos of better players (which I certainly will - thanks for the idea everyone), but it is certainly better than charging blindly.
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Post by B30RLL on Jan 6, 2017 7:49:06 GMT -5
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 6, 2017 9:39:27 GMT -5
I have read that thread, believe me, which is the reason i added the last sentence. Give me 5000 Au and 7500 WSP and i'll gladly use a different platform
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Jan 6, 2017 9:49:55 GMT -5
Try using a Cossack/Ecu and try to kill people, if you can, then you're all set for the game, no competition after that, bragging rights given to you
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hizzie
Destrier
Posts: 34
Karma: 7
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Post by hizzie on Jan 6, 2017 10:16:31 GMT -5
Thank you for the shoutout B30RLL . I "broke the internet" you say eh, ha. loopI understand how you may not have been able to apply some of the thinking presented in the Tactician series due to how it's indirectly delivered. The next one I have planned is looking to address this by focusing on logical decision making, but this time I will pause mid action and explain the choices based upon prior knowledge of the scenario (hopefully adding visual aids too if my editing skills are up to the task!) and then unpausing to see the consequence of such. One reason for trying this is to add more variety to the series (and keep myself interested), second is that a more directly explained method with clear breaks to intake the information may be more palatable. Will let you know when I release it and hopefully it may assist you in some way, however minor. Wonderful video Sir. Made all the more enjoyable with your accent and calm demeanor.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 6, 2017 23:49:30 GMT -5
Running 2 1/8 Taran Cossacks, 1/8 Thunder Schutze, and 1/5,5 Patton Pinata right now, gold farming for Galahad.
I can use Taran Cossack cornering in enemy spawn at certain maps, but there's significantly less MRS. I still get aggressive(unless reloading) with pinatas.
What is the best way to not get killed by MRS that hasn't revealed itself yet?
Thanks for all the help up to now btw.
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Post by RightOn on Jan 7, 2017 1:15:16 GMT -5
More often than not you tend to see the battle as having an outcome - instead try giving it one
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Jan 7, 2017 2:15:27 GMT -5
More often than not you tend to see the battle as having an outcome - instead try giving it one Quote everyone should live by lol
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 7, 2017 2:41:01 GMT -5
More often than not you tend to see the battle as having an outcome - instead try giving it one Even with guidelines i would likely fail Guidelines ftw?
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