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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 15:23:17 GMT -5
Level requirements are not equivalent with MM penalties, nor do levels actually equate to skill. Also, no one would ever join a clan if it worked the way you said. Any actual affiliation would be done outside the game to avoid the penalty. I know that, but they should.... and I don't really believe that...you can't have a Lvl30 noob....or a Lvl 20 beginner I don't know why the clan won't work.. it works for most other games. why do you say no one would join? why DO they join? There are so many things wrong, account sharing, clubbing, clan gangbangs, over powered bots, under powered bots, not enough armor, to much armor..... on and on and on..... Most other games give the options for clan wars, they dont force you to fight clans whenever you're in a clan.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 7, 2016 15:28:15 GMT -5
SNIP.... Why would they need to mess with the Molots & Punishers again? Aren't they going to? I'm waiting patiently for that rapid fire mode, which I DO feel will breathe new life into the whole slew of kinetic combustion based weapons in the game. I still don't know if I like the idea of the shield breaking bonus though... SNIP.... Wonder if that feature is still in the works or if they have fully decided to use it and are just getting all the other things together for the update that it might come out in... Or if it is off the table as an option. I really like the sounds of the Punisher and would like to use it more. Reminiscent of the Warty's real-life, big 30MM
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Post by Muhlakai on Oct 7, 2016 15:48:12 GMT -5
I don't really believe that you can have a Lvl30 noob or a Lvl 20 beginner {edited} Why not? Levels show that you've played a lot, not that you know how to play well, nor that you even understand the MM, why Noricums are always such a bad plan, etc. Lots of folks get to high levels without ever figuring out strategy, etc. Practice makes consistent, not perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 15:55:08 GMT -5
I don't really believe that you can have a Lvl30 noob or a Lvl 20 beginner {edited} Why not? Levels show that you've played a lot, not that you know how to play well, nor that you even understand the MM, why Noricums are always such a bad plan, etc. Lots of folks get to high levels without ever figuring out strategy, etc. Practice makes consistent, not perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. I'm sure lv 30 players with Zenit/nori Natashas are just as good as lv 30 players with Griffins and Galahads. Im sure level 20 players with MiniDB and MiniRDB mediums are just as good as lv 20 players with level 7 bots and lv 2 weapons. Surely
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Post by morgemil on Oct 10, 2016 17:47:13 GMT -5
A fine example of a seal clubber. How long does it take to make this profitable?
It can't be worthwhile, it's got to be malicious glee.
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bryndamor
Destrier
Posts: 16
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Pilot name: McLuven
Platform: Android
League: Bronze
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Post by bryndamor on Oct 10, 2016 17:59:52 GMT -5
that's high Bronze tier. I don't believe that you can have mags at level 8 and normally play in Rookie or low Bronze. I don't think you can call most high Bronze players 'seals' anymore.
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Post by morgemil on Oct 10, 2016 18:55:56 GMT -5
It's either high bronze or low silver. My low silver hangar was able to counter him when I got near him but in the mean time he shredded my team.
These are op and obnoxious builds purposely intended to stay in a lower tier. That's my definition of seal clubbing.
How hard is it really for someone playing for a couple of days to end up in high bronze low silver? I feel like both the gep and rog need mm penalties on par with the British bots.
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Post by RightOn on Oct 10, 2016 20:06:36 GMT -5
It might be best to change how bot and weapon levels work in matchmaking. They can add the weapon and bot levels together, and your highest level bot gets fit into matchmaking accordingly.
Example: You have a level 1 gepard with level 9 magnums. Add 1 + 9 = 10.
If I have a level 10 bot with level 10 weapons, I get a 20.
This will keep everything separated properly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:20:35 GMT -5
It might be best to change how bot and weapon levels work in matchmaking. They can add the weapon and bot levels together, and your highest level bot gets fit into matchmaking accordingly.
Example: You have a level 1 gepard with level 9 magnums. Add 1 + 9 = 10.
If I have a level 10 bot with level 10 weapons, I get a 20.
This will keep everything separated properly. That wouldn't work, currently weapon levels weigh MORE than bot levels, The GEP is broken. That's not even considering a 6/6 heavy has, on average, 25% more firepower and 15-25% more HP than a medium, and so forth for mediums to lights. Geps are the fastest lv 1 bot by over (now) 14kmph, and has nearly 40% more HP than it's runner ups in speed. It has 50% more firepower than it's runner ups as well. Gep is the ONLY non penalized bot with that much of an advantage at lv1. The upccoming gep nerf will be good enough, it will have to be leveled like every other bot to keep it's speed advantage. And before everyone cries over it, Gep still has 50% more firepower and HP only second to the stalker for light bots.
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Post by RightOn on Oct 10, 2016 23:43:29 GMT -5
Well yeah, you could run a level 1 gepard with level 1 weapons to play against players in their destrier diapers, but if you slapped level 9 mags on it, you would play against beginners with base level 5 weapons and maybe hours towards bot level.
Basically if they leave the system the way it is and nerf gepard, nothing is going to change because a new bot will be crowned to farm with.
The problem is the numbers, not the bot.
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Post by Chill on Oct 11, 2016 9:18:38 GMT -5
Every game you play people cry NERF!!
Righton is completely right, its not the Bot. You Nerf the GEP and someone will figure out that a certain combo will kick arse with a different bot - Thus the cycle begins with crying of NERF!!
Everyone has the option to purchase the GEP and level up your weapons, if you choose not too and play a different way that's fine but don't 「female dog」 about it.
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Post by nodalwars on Oct 11, 2016 10:30:22 GMT -5
Well yeah, you could run a level 1 gepard with level 1 weapons to play against players in their destrier diapers, but if you slapped level 9 mags on it, you would play against beginners with base level 5 weapons and maybe hours towards bot level. Basically if they leave the system the way it is and nerf gepard, nothing is going to change because a new bot will be crowned to farm with. The problem is the numbers, not the bot. I disagree. If you can take a any bot and add some weapons and be dominant no matter your playing skill then it is OP. I never have used Geps. I hunt them when I find them. I currently only use Mediums that are all 4/6. I see Geps that are 1/9 on up to 3/9 fairly often and focus on them when I see them. I just played a game where I killed a guys three times with two bots because he had a hangar of 1/9 Geps and 2/8 Cossacks and was just there to farm. His name was Foam Finger, so if you see him kill him a few more times for me. If you are going to farm, using something way OP to your opponents means you are using the system instead of using whatever skill you have. Geps have to be bought so it becomes a game of players wanting to have fun vs those who spend $. Annoying as hell. It is also a pretty big killjoy for newer players. Currently I have Golem 4/6 Kang/Tulumbas/CRV Patton 4/6 4x CRV Boa 4/6 Thunder/Taran Vityaz 4/6 Thunder/Pinatas None of these are OP. I see lots of Leos and Griffins when I play and rarely a few Brit Bots but regularly rack up 3+ kills sometimes as much as 5 or 6 and 250k+ damage and die once or twice. I've been tempted to make a pure Gep hunting hangar. Been considering Boas with Thunder/Taran or Vityaz with Thunder/Pinatas or Pattons with 4 Mags.
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Post by RightOn on Oct 11, 2016 10:42:54 GMT -5
If you're fighting against gepard mags with pinatas, you are going to get thrashed as all the gepard has to do is use his speed to backtrack and stay between 300 and 350 meters, his safe zone. Back when I was a newbie I just started using RDB and thrashing plasma bots before they got into range.
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Post by morgemil on Oct 11, 2016 11:15:55 GMT -5
Anyone who argues against some balance being brought to the Gep is either hopelessly unaware or, a gleefull user of them. The problem is in the tiers where the maggep is so prevalent there is no real way to counter them effectively. They are too fast with too much health and too many weapons. Something needs changed.
I don't advocate a nerf as such, just balance. Id suggest lowering its base speed to the same as the cossack and let increase with upgrades. As it stands at level 1 it has the same speed as a level 9 cossack with the health of a golem and about 66% of the firepower of a boa. If that isn't overpowered then I don't know what is.
That's why I'm looking forward to the gun update. It'll bring some variation from all the plasma and rockets.
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Post by nodalwars on Oct 11, 2016 13:22:05 GMT -5
If you're fighting against gepard mags with pinatas, you are going to get thrashed as all the gepard has to do is use his speed to backtrack and stay between 300 and 350 meters, his safe zone. Back when I was a newbie I just started using RDB and thrashing plasma bots before they got into range. Not if you let them get close. I don't spar with them at long range. They always assume they can ambush and run in and out. I love to disabuse them of that idea. Two Pinatas and a Thunder can take down the Hits on a Lvl 1 Gep pretty quickly. The key is to get them into a spot where their mobility is not a problem. Most Gep players are not smart enough and if they are I can pull out a Patton with CRVs and take them out. If they close I stay next to another unit or some terrain that I can hide behind while I reload.
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Post by nodalwars on Oct 11, 2016 13:22:23 GMT -5
Anyone who argues against some balance being brought to the Gep is either hopelessly unaware or, a gleefull user of them. The problem is in the tiers where the maggep is so prevalent there is no real way to counter them effectively. They are too fast with too much health and too many weapons. Something needs changed. I don't advocate a nerf as such, just balance. Id suggest lowering its base speed to the same as the cossack and let increase with upgrades. As it stands at level 1 it has the same speed as a level 9 cossack with the health of a golem and about 66% of the firepower of a boa. If that isn't overpowered then I don't know what is. That's why I'm looking forward to the gun update. It'll bring some variation from all the plasma and rockets. ^^^ Agreed
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 13:41:27 GMT -5
Every game you play people cry NERF!! Righton is completely right, its not the Bot. You Nerf the GEP and someone will figure out that a certain combo will kick arse with a different bot - Thus the cycle begins with crying of NERF!! Everyone has the option to purchase the GEP and level up your weapons, if you choose not too and play a different way that's fine but don't Fuzzy Bunny about it. Get a Gep through weeks of grinding uphill against them, or spending $100 (5x gep 6k gold, 4th slot 5th slot) to join the Gep clubber party. I'm sure that's an ultimatum that many people starting the game will walk away from. We aren't talking about a player that has 1 gep and 4 other bots, we're talking about people that run 5 of them and end games in 4 minutes scoring 3-500k damage. Even with the upcoming speed nerf on the gepard it will STILL be the top light bot in lower tiers, hands down. It just won't be as unbearable. Every Ag light has to be level 6+ to be anywhere near a level 1 gep in speed or HP, which greatly lowers their ALREADY INFERIOR damage potential in comparison to it. The upcoming nerf will put gep on even grounds with the Cossack in speed, leaving it's advantage at 50% more firepower and Medium bot HP.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 11, 2016 14:20:23 GMT -5
Every game you play people cry NERF!! Righton is completely right, its not the Bot. You Nerf the GEP and someone will figure out that a certain combo will kick arse with a different bot - Thus the cycle begins with crying of NERF!! Everyone has the option to purchase the GEP and level up your weapons, if you choose not too and play a different way that's fine but don't Fuzzy Bunny about it. Get a Gep through weeks of grinding uphill against them, or spending $100 (5x gep 6k gold, 4th slot 5th slot) to join the Gep clubber party. I'm sure that's an ultimatum that many people starting the game will walk away from. We aren't talking about a player that has 1 gep and 4 other bots, we're talking about people that run 5 of them and end games in 4 minutes scoring 3-500k damage. Even with the upcoming speed nerf on the gepard it will STILL be the top light bot in lower tiers, hands down. It just won't be as unbearable. Every Ag light has to be level 6+ to be anywhere near a level 1 gep in speed or HP, which greatly lowers their ALREADY INFERIOR damage potential in comparison to it. The upcoming nerf will put gep on even grounds with the Cossack in speed, leaving it's advantage at 50% more firepower and Medium bot HP. "But... but... by the time you are in high bronze or low silver... you should know enough and have high enough bots to handle them," said the clubbers. If that were true, them why go there to farm? It's not "Farming" if it is a challenge. I agree with you tin. People who say "Anyone can buy one," take 2 things for granted... 1.) that people are always going to spend money. 2.) that they HAVE money to spend. I am an adult with a job and can justify dropping cash on whatever my current game fascination is... but I am not the rule in these kinds of games, I am the exception. And I don't spend all the time. I wont. If I just have to have a weapon because I am feeling old and impatient, then I will, but otherwise I will grind it out like everyone else... The game is more FUN if you earn your upgrades, IMHO. Plus, the harder you play at lower tiers, the better you are at the higher ones. My .02
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Post by sochilli (Saltesers) on Oct 12, 2016 6:33:12 GMT -5
^^completely agree. I could easily blow a couple bucks for an easy club, but a) no fun b) why even bother throw money at a game I'm bound to stop playing within a few years?
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Post by angrygoat on Oct 18, 2016 22:42:29 GMT -5
THE CENTER BEACON has a video on "seal clubbing" u may find worth watching..I did
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 19, 2016 9:07:17 GMT -5
DISCLAIMER: I like TCB's channel and enjoy his humor and gameplay. How one stands on a particular issue does not make me feel negatively towards anyone. I just want to say: To use the same analogy Warlock used in that video... a major league baseball team isn't going head to head against little league. I'm sorry, but a 4/12 all or mostly Gep hanger is not on the same level as a 4/6 medium. No matter how you slice it, the tier isn't the same. But this is pointless... those who do it, defend it, those who don't, don't think it is right.
Personally I do agree with part of what he said... if you don't like it do something about it... Most people who keep playing do. It's just that many at that level quit. Or they level up to get to a tier that sees those types of hangers less. Going out and buying another all gep hanger takes the fun of the game away. Very bland. All the same robots is not the answer... but hey, if that's what Pix wants... then they are getting it. Slowly but surely. Top clans prove it. Maybe... Should call it War Gepards and just be done with it.
Either way... to each their own. I don't complain anymore (barring this reply... which is less a complaint and more a this-is-how-I-see-it) because after the bot speed adjustment that included the Rog, but not the Gep, it was very plain what the Devs want to see at those levels. All Geps. All the time. Dollar Dollar bills yo. Good for them. Hope they make enough to do whatever it is they want to do. But I'll not agree that this is the path the game needs to take.
JMO, might not even be worth .02, but there it is.
All that said... If I see any of y'all on the red team, lets shoot each other. If I see you on blue, let's shoot the reds together... The seal clubbing issue isn't going away unless Pix wants it to. People who complain usually haven't grasped that yet... I was one of them. Now I do.
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Post by morgemil on Oct 19, 2016 12:17:45 GMT -5
The problem with that video is his arguments are easily countered.
Running mag geps in order to counter mag geps is not adaptation. It's homogenization. Yes, anyone can do it but that is its own counter argument. If anyone can do it why is it worth doing? It doesn't make you special or skilled, it just makes you boring and cheap. You want to show your skills? Stop running five 2/10 mag geps just so you can stay where the targets are soft. Level those bots to 12/12 and run them at the top level, then show us your skills and the value of the bot.
Untill then you're all you're doing is showing the rest of us your ability to recognize a way to exploit quirks of the match-making system and your willingness to use it.
Apart from bullying, what else is there to gain from constructing a hangar that will require a minimum of 600 #1 match wins, beating people who can't compete with you, to become profitable?
The point to all this is that when you look at any given bot setup, there are multiple other bots and setups that will be able to match it on even footing. The problem is, these 5x 2/10 mag gep hangars have no effective counter amongst the bots they are likely to face...except another hangar just like it.
Hogenization is the death knell for games like this. Hopefully Pix figures that out.
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Post by ShutUpAndSmokeMyWeed on Oct 19, 2016 12:41:41 GMT -5
Quick side note to the OP: the first 5 or so battles are with AI opponents, after that it's all PvP.
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
Aurora Clan Moderator
Posts: 729
Karma: 556
Platform: Android
Clan: leader of Aurora Nova [AurN]
League: Gold
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bishop from Aliens, although WALL-E is a close second
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Oct 19, 2016 12:43:49 GMT -5
I think one easy and automatic way to deal with this is to have the prices of weapons and bots reflect the amount of their demand. Popular ones should become more expensive and less popular ones less expensive. So the Gepard would become expensive to the point of not being the most efficient purchase, something else takes its place and then also gets more expensive. Eventually, every item's value should equalize, which should level things automatically and also in the long-term despite any future changes.
One downside is that this would reward the early-adopters, but I think that can be addressed by having the prices of repairs and future upgrades also be adjusted. Besides, a small number of early-adopter over-powered bots/weapons sure beats a whole fleet of them everywhere.
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Post by Strayed on Oct 19, 2016 14:59:44 GMT -5
My opinion would be to just start matching based on player level. Start gving out mm penalties once you're above level 25 unless your win % is lower than 30 and your dmg avg is lower than 200k.
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Post by Strayed on Oct 19, 2016 15:04:22 GMT -5
I think one easy and automatic way to deal with this is to have the prices of weapons and bots reflect the amount of their demand. Popular ones should become more expensive and less popular ones less expensive. So the Gepard would become expensive to the point of not being the most efficient purchase, something else takes its place and then also gets more expensive. Eventually, every item's value should equalize, which should level things automatically and also in the long-term despite any future changes. One downside is that this would reward the early-adopters, but I think that can be addressed by having the prices of repairs and future upgrades also be adjusted. Besides, a small number of early-adopter over-powered bots/weapons sure beats a whole fleet of them everywhere. I disagree, all that would do is make it harder for noobs to acheive a better setup, it would make the natasha/bad teammate problem even worse. A better and simpler solution would be to just keep level 30 players out of the lower tiers in general. Top tier already has enough vareiety. Lancelots, rhinos, griffins, galahads, furies, carnages, etc.
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Post by Noreceipts400 on Oct 19, 2016 17:17:33 GMT -5
If tri mag Gerard's are seal clubbing then what about thunder shutzes? They are powerful but available at level 11 so does that mean you aren't seal clubbing if you use one considering it's like a thunder carnage, far less effective on big maps?
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Post by Strayed on Oct 19, 2016 17:31:09 GMT -5
In my opinion, any experienced player playing at the lower tiers is sealclubbing. There is virtually no way for a noob to beat a moderately experienced player in a straight on fight. A thunder schutze will at least not usually drive off noobs though
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Post by moody on Oct 19, 2016 20:29:10 GMT -5
Player level has little if anything to do with what tier somebody should be in. When I was on level 20 I really wasn't much different from when I was on level 5 - I had just had more games.
If the developers could get say hourly stats on damage rates of particular weapon and bot combos and feed that back into the matchmaker as a negative feedback loop it would slowly equalize which combinations were better or worse.
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Post by Heishiro on Oct 19, 2016 20:42:25 GMT -5
I think one easy and automatic way to deal with this is to have the prices of weapons and bots reflect the amount of their demand. Popular ones should become more expensive and less popular ones less expensive. So the Gepard would become expensive to the point of not being the most efficient purchase, something else takes its place and then also gets more expensive. Eventually, every item's value should equalize, which should level things automatically and also in the long-term despite any future changes. One downside is that this would reward the early-adopters, but I think that can be addressed by having the prices of repairs and future upgrades also be adjusted. Besides, a small number of early-adopter over-powered bots/weapons sure beats a whole fleet of them everywhere. I disagree, all that would do is make it harder for noobs to acheive a better setup, it would make the natasha/bad teammate problem even worse. A better and simpler solution would be to just keep level 30 players out of the lower tiers in general. Top tier already has enough vareiety. Lancelots, rhinos, griffins, galahads, furies, carnages, etc. yup this can cure the balance, for L30 players with gold or wsp bot/weaps they should go straight to mid-high silver. PX should let the new players enjoy the lower tier so they will stay.
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