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Post by T34 on Dec 13, 2017 18:57:27 GMT -5
If there was real matchmaking that didn't pit f2p lvl 10 mk1 against whale mk2 I'd abhor tanking, but there isn't. Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Dec 13, 2017 19:34:17 GMT -5
It's a thread about tanking, I think it degenerates from the first post on. Let's at least make it entertaining before it fizzles out into nothingness. It really isn't a nice scene when amidf and the other guy clash. Sort of not entertaining and more like I don't want to see it bad. Are you the other guy?
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Post by karlhungus on Dec 13, 2017 19:47:39 GMT -5
If there was real matchmaking that didn't pit f2p lvl 10 mk1 against whale mk2 I'd abhor tanking, but there isn't. Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
It's an important point though. Taking my lvl 10 hangar down to silver where folks are lvl 6 is moraly deficient tanking and I should be ashamed. But these folks are fine to throw you to the wolves/whales/wholves? in champ where it's the same 40% difference in stats with the added disadvantage of solid DIES hangars.
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Post by T34 on Dec 13, 2017 21:03:04 GMT -5
It really isn't a nice scene when amidf and the other guy clash. Sort of not entertaining and more like I don't want to see it bad. Are you the other guy? No.
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Post by T34 on Dec 13, 2017 21:15:11 GMT -5
Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
It's an important point though. Taking my lvl 10 hangar down to silver where folks are lvl 6 is moraly deficient tanking and I should be ashamed. But these folks are fine to throw you to the wolves/whales/wholves? in champ where it's the same 40% difference in stats with the added disadvantage of solid DIES hangars. Yes indeed. By participating in this game every person is either a bully (using that analogy) or is being bullied as a result of the MM and the monetization system. Participation equals condoning that behaviour. Using the common arguments why is the MM induced bullying accepted to be fine when other forms of manipulations are not? Why is it fine for a person to buy and max out OP gear in bronze and thrash everyone all the way to champs and even there. This game is design around the concept of power and rewards the player who can put himself into that position.
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rusty
Destrier
Posts: 16
Karma: 0
Platform: iOS
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Post by rusty on Dec 13, 2017 22:07:13 GMT -5
What us “tanking” anything like “ amping” i have posted comments on camping elsewhere rhat camping seems to be a growing trend for some players it would nice nice to have a map where you can use terrain but if you are not on the attack in a very short timespan you loose strenght. aggressive players can loose to these campers IMHO
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rusty
Destrier
Posts: 16
Karma: 0
Platform: iOS
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Post by rusty on Dec 13, 2017 22:09:50 GMT -5
How. To. Beat. A. Dead. Horse. Not sure what is going on here
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Post by AVC on Dec 13, 2017 22:10:38 GMT -5
If there was real matchmaking that didn't pit f2p lvl 10 mk1 against whale mk2 I'd abhor tanking, but there isn't. Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
Yes there is. Hangar based matchmaking. The MM is based on your HIGHEST level bot in your active hanger(s). Your league is based on your score, and should have no effect on the MM process.
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Post by T34 on Dec 13, 2017 23:07:07 GMT -5
Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
Yes there is. Hangar based matchmaking. The MM is based on your HIGHEST level bot in your active hanger(s). Your league is based on your score, and should have no effect on the MM process. Yes, that would solve it. But Pix wont do it.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 13, 2017 23:14:44 GMT -5
What's your stance on blocking other blue players from moving out of their spawn? IDK about that but yesterday I shoved a bot off the bridge on Yam b/c kept stepping into the line of fire of my two tempests to hit something that was 200m outside of range of his tarans. I felt it was totally justified.
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 13, 2017 23:18:03 GMT -5
Yes there is. Hangar based matchmaking. The MM is based on your HIGHEST level bot in your active hanger(s). Your league is based on your score, and should have no effect on the MM process. Yes, that would solve it. But Pix wont do it. They could also eliminate tanking entirely by not awarding positive or negative points, beacons, commercials, nothing for any player that does not use at least 3 bots and play for at least 90 seconds.
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Post by T34 on Dec 13, 2017 23:39:15 GMT -5
Yes, that would solve it. But Pix wont do it. They could also eliminate tanking entirely by not awarding positive or negative points, beacons, commercials, nothing for any player that does not use at least 3 bots and play for at least 90 seconds. Those things would have work arounds such as playing 3 bots for 90 secs. Problem is that IMO it is very difficult for an algorithm to identify who is tanking and who is playing properly. Hanger strength playing a role in allocation is by the far the best IMO. But then the problem is how do you keep deep pocketed paying customers happy when all evidence thus far shows that Pix has made a bundle by selling power and offering up weaker opponents to those deep pocketed customers. Someone on the forum recently said that, that is exactly what most people want. Only the minority complains and wants a level playing field. the more I think about the more I tend to agree with that assessment. Consider this, how many people don't upgrade or stop upgrading their weapons at a particular level. How many people do not want to have a hanger of highly leveled premium stuff. Not many........ why?
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Post by cmdrperalta on Dec 14, 2017 0:16:06 GMT -5
They could also eliminate tanking entirely by not awarding positive or negative points, beacons, commercials, nothing for any player that does not use at least 3 bots and play for at least 90 seconds. Those things would have work arounds such as playing 3 bots for 90 secs. Yes, but the marginal benefit drops. Especially if they don't publish the minimum time. I'm not sure whether your assessment is true or not. I level my bots to the minimum level needed to hit their max speed and most of my weapons are 10 or less. I would rather level up stuff up from the 6-7 range rather than take everything past 10-12 b/c I prefer playing with different setups, including low damage light bots. For me, the sweet spot for that level of gear is D1/E3. So that's where I am at. Perhaps after the tournament now that there is soon to be such a big difference between my a and b hangars, I will go ahead and move up to champion. BTW, maybe you are implying some other psychological factor with major tanking. I would say that it's bc tankers are exposed to high reward -- kicking the snot out of their competition when they stay and fight (even if they lose the match); task completion/farming -- whereas they never really see the result of the defeat. Tankers never see all of the -22 dead last screens, only good stuff, even though they have tons of -22 matches where they are overwhelmingly the worst performer and the main reason their team loses.
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Post by T34 on Dec 14, 2017 1:03:19 GMT -5
Those things would have work arounds such as playing 3 bots for 90 secs. Yes, but the marginal benefit drops. Especially if they don't publish the minimum time. I'm not sure whether your assessment is true or not. I level my bots to the minimum level needed to hit their max speed and most of my weapons are 10 or less. I would rather level up stuff up from the 6-7 range rather than take everything past 10-12 b/c I prefer playing with different setups, including low damage light bots. For me, the sweet spot for that level of gear is D1/E3. So that's where I am at. Perhaps after the tournament now that there is soon to be such a big difference between my a and b hangars, I will go ahead and move up to champion. BTW, maybe you are implying some other psychological factor with major tanking. I would say that it's bc tankers are exposed to high reward -- kicking the snot out of their competition when they stay and fight (even if they lose the match); task completion/farming -- whereas they never really see the result of the defeat. Tankers never see all of the -22 dead last screens, only good stuff, even though they have tons of -22 matches where they are overwhelmingly the worst performer and the main reason their team loses. Point 1. Yes the marginal benefit would decrease but the overall benefit would still remain huge. Not sure if you remember what happened since about April this year (cant really recall when the big changes were made). Tanking back than was hard. People were forced into squads for tanking. Than every single update/change in relation to the leagues or points assisted tanking. In addition, Events, BM, velocity wheels, ads, MK2, escape from the LQ, conditions to get into the LQ and just about everything else favoured the tankers. The only people Pix looks after more are the customers who pay a lot. Its like the entire game is set up for big whales to little whales and tankers. Point 2. Yes people want to succeed and win. Thats what drives most and people are willing to pay for it or grind for it. A while ago there was a poll on this forum as to why people tank. The majority went with resource generation. If I remember correctly (gold fish memory) even collectors ranked higher than those that clubbed for the pleasure of it. I’d say that reflects reality. Most resource farmers and collectors descend to fatten up and then ascend for fun and better quality fights. Never underestimate grinders and collectors in their ruthless determination. They are very determined and play a lot and investigate every opportunity to gain maximal resources in the minimal time. Pixonic knows that too and rewards their high activity level by almost raising them to large whale status. In the mean time the average middle of the table guy is still collecting components for the first item.
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Post by Payxonic on Dec 14, 2017 1:43:08 GMT -5
Are we really having a tanking thread?
Move on guys, nothing will change. Tanking will stay. Either you dont tank or you tank. Its up to you
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Post by Russel on Dec 14, 2017 10:09:24 GMT -5
I really really really hate Orkan\Shocktrain Haechi, and think it should never ever been introduced to the game. I hate it to that extent that I:
1) Never use it on TestServer now 2) Do not buy it's component on offers 3) I did some writing work for Pix, and got choice to pick any dash for free. I picked Bulgasari.
I think EVERY person who uses Haechi very well understand that it is OP bot and cash grab by Pix. And by using it the player shows to other players just how OP it is. And the more player uses it, the more others willing to get it, and the more people pays for it to Pix, which, in turn, makes Pix want to introduce more OP stuff in the future.
So, in my view Haechi users (however you obtained it) are killing the game, and doing that well-aware of the effect.
BUT
I would NOT shoot blue Haechi. I would NOT block it. I would NOT leave the game when I see either blue or red one. They made their choice, I've made mine. I am not "a better" or "more fair" or "more honorable" person, and I should not force other people to behave one way or another while they are having good time.
That's what I dislike about "sealclubber shamers" pretty much. You made your choice, explain to people why it might be bad what they are doing. If they continue on doing so - leave it be. Person got his choices to make.
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Post by amidf on Dec 14, 2017 19:13:41 GMT -5
I would NOT shoot blue Haechi. I would NOT block it. I would NOT leave the game when I see either blue or red one. They made their choice, I've made mine. I am not "a better" or "more fair" or "more honorable" person, and I should not force other people to behave one way or another while they are having good time. That's what I dislike about "sealclubber shamers" pretty much. You made your choice, explain to people why it might be bad what they are doing. If they continue on doing so - leave it be. Person got his choices to make. So a person that did shoot at, block, and harass a blue haechi for the entire match, every match -until it got boring and he tried it on blue ancilots instead - i) is OK, because they are just playing in a way they think is fun or ii) is not OK because they are trying to force others to stop using bots that are "less honorable" or "less fair?"
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Post by ᎶƦ℮℮ƊᎽ ƤΛƝƊΛ on Dec 14, 2017 19:35:34 GMT -5
I would NOT shoot blue Haechi. I would NOT block it. I would NOT leave the game when I see either blue or red one. They made their choice, I've made mine. I am not "a better" or "more fair" or "more honorable" person, and I should not force other people to behave one way or another while they are having good time. That's what I dislike about "sealclubber shamers" pretty much. You made your choice, explain to people why it might be bad what they are doing. If they continue on doing so - leave it be. Person got his choices to make. So a person that did shoot at, block, and harass a blue haechi for the entire match, every match -until it got boring and he tried it on blue ancilots instead - i) is OK, because they are just playing in a way they think is fun or ii) is not OK because they are trying to force others to stop using bots that are "less honorable" or "less fair?" Who says that is not okay? If that is how they choose to enjoy the game, so be it. If you're in a Haechi, all it takes is one dash to keep whatever blue is blocking you from being able to do so any longer. They're wasting their time and effectively doing nothing to you, so why would it matter anyways?
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Post by leavemealone on Dec 14, 2017 19:49:13 GMT -5
The lengths you guys are doing to explain away Pixonic's behavior is ridiculous. The human race went to the moon, do you not think we can devise a league system without a loophole? Seriously? And I can think of many games that (SC2, DOTA2, CS, League, Chess) that have league systems without loopholes. Leagues were not invented to stop seal clubbing. They were invented to stop people from not upgrading and sitting in a spot where they were comfortable. Leagues are there to constantly push you to improve, get new gear, spend more time and money on the game. Lloyd explained this very well: If Pixonic cared about seal clubbing, they wouldn't allow people to tank. But that isn't their priority. Nor is it the priority of tankers to listen to threads like this. this game was created from the ground up from nothing. i'm sure they can devise a system of they wanted to.
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Post by Russel on Dec 15, 2017 3:37:58 GMT -5
I would NOT shoot blue Haechi. I would NOT block it. I would NOT leave the game when I see either blue or red one. They made their choice, I've made mine. I am not "a better" or "more fair" or "more honorable" person, and I should not force other people to behave one way or another while they are having good time. That's what I dislike about "sealclubber shamers" pretty much. You made your choice, explain to people why it might be bad what they are doing. If they continue on doing so - leave it be. Person got his choices to make. So a person that did shoot at, block, and harass a blue haechi for the entire match, every match -until it got boring and he tried it on blue ancilots instead - i) is OK, because they are just playing in a way they think is fun or ii) is not OK because they are trying to force others to stop using bots that are "less honorable" or "less fair?" Pick your poison, do whatever feels good in game. I used to think that some people (Noricum-Zenit) are stupid some time ago, and was shooting at them some time ago. Then I grew up a bit, and now I think that you can do whatever you want (block Haechi, buy Haechi, swap beacons, use ECU Stalker, use Noricums) as long as you don't shame\abuse other people. You see, it's a fine line here that many don't understand. I am having really great fun shooting at other people IN THE GAME, and I may or may have not shot your couple of times (I definitely did once that to DarkVagabond). However I strongly believe that I would be a really bad person if I shot you in real life. So, as long as something stays "in-game" it's all good. But I would not bring hatred\honour\justice from game to real life or vice versa. So, if blocking Haechi feels like fun in game - do it. If this is a sign of harassment because you really hate the person behind it and try to channel your hatred through the game - please don't. Know the difference between the game and the real life. Related to this topic - see the tanker, don't want to play with him\her - leave the game. Want to kill beacon swappers - it's all good. But "shaming" or judging people based on the way they play the game... well we should start then by saying that War Robots is showing people that the violence is the only way to solve something, and people who chosen to shoot others for fun are morally inadequate. But as smart people, we know the difference between the game and the reality. Or do we?
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Post by Estoplast on Dec 15, 2017 5:09:37 GMT -5
No, no and no. What is this? I see a tanker and leave also? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」. Team of 5 is hard, team of 4 is excellent... I will not write a well argumented long post, because i have not enough time, education and english is not my native language. But saying tanking is tolerable because its a free world is just wrong. It is a multiplayer team game. As if there isn't enough pisspoor things in this great game. Including my irresponsible use of Haechi.
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Post by Domino on Dec 15, 2017 7:51:20 GMT -5
No, no and no. What is this? I see a tanker and leave also? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」. Team of 5 is hard, team of 4 is excellent... I will not write a well argumented long post, because i have not enough time, education and english is not my native language. But saying tanking is tolerable because its a free world is just wrong. It is a multiplayer team game. As if there isn't enough pisspoor things in this great game. Including my irresponsible use of Haechi. Apparantly if a 30 year Grand Chess Champion playing against a 8 yr old amateur is Fun. Playing light bots, playing weird setups, playing snipers might be deemed fun. Tanking is not in any common sense fun outside of a selfish intention. I believe 99.9999% of the time someone will tank (ridicoulsly tank) to get an upper hand for.some perosnal benefit(prizes/Ag/Au/tasks). Not because it makes the game more enjoyable. This logic seems common sense to some or dare I say it to most. But you will always have others for whatever reason they choose to believe otherwise. I seriously question thier motivies. There's no I in Team.. last I checked it was a Team game (some cheese for the end
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Post by optimusprime on Dec 15, 2017 11:26:40 GMT -5
Disagree. Leaving things for Pixonic to right a wrong is like waiting for a corporate company that makes antidotes for ebola for find a permanent cure. That's how they make thier money. Fixing the problem won't help them become more richThere is a massive logical inconsistency here that makes your argument invalid: You're giving Pixonic a pass, stating they can't do the right thing. But why not the tankers a pass, because they can't do the right thing? The arguments reek of elitism, and who are you to decide who can be judged and who can't? Because that's how they make their resources ingame. Fixing the problem won't help them get more resources.If you damn one, you should damn all. Now you could turn that around on me and state that I am defending tankers and advocating action against Pixonic. However, that is a simplistic view of this situation: What I am doing is logically consistent because I defend the tankers method of obtaining resources because it is the best practice (unless you can show me evidence that you can obtain more resources without tanking). However, what Pixonic is doing is not the industry best practices, it does not make the most money, and it is just dumb because it is killing their game. We see evidence of that by the backlash Pixonic has faced, and the declining revenue and player base. Allowing players to tank and implementing pay to win is foolish. So we should be damning Pixonic. It is way past time to stop defending them. Ok PC Principale,you just made me abandon the thread
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Post by TheWWRNerdGuy on Dec 15, 2017 11:27:31 GMT -5
Yes, well said.
It is intrinsic to the game, built in by design and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Cannot understand how people cant recognise that.
Yes there is. Hangar based matchmaking. The MM is based on your HIGHEST level bot in your active hanger(s). Your league is based on your score, and should have no effect on the MM process. Can't wait to use my 2x lvl 12 mk2 Taran lvl 1 mk1 Kumiho!
Pixonic doesn't want tanking to happen. But every solution they've tried has failed. Let me hear your solution for it. Are there any loopholes? Is it realistic? Can Pixonic implement it? Can it punish innocent players? Is anybody going to complain about it?
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Post by Domino on Dec 15, 2017 12:23:46 GMT -5
Yes there is. Hangar based matchmaking. The MM is based on your HIGHEST level bot in your active hanger(s). Your league is based on your score, and should have no effect on the MM process. Can't wait to use my 2x lvl 12 mk2 Taran lvl 1 mk1 Kumiho!
Pixonic doesn't want tanking to happen. But every solution they've tried has failed. Let me hear your solution for it. Are there any loopholes? Is it realistic? Can Pixonic implement it? Can it punish innocent players? Is anybody going to complain about it?Some people think it's easy to do something. I'm in I.T and I think I see this on a daily if not hourly basis. Management will tell me, "Oh let's do etc etc, You can get that done before end of day right?" Little do they know all the aspects in I.T that need to happen for the request to work. Same thing for match making. A lot of suggestions have just as big loop holes as they have now. Also, it's a given that you don't make rules on the exceptions, they usually do more bad then good.
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Post by Russel on Dec 15, 2017 19:23:01 GMT -5
No, no and no. What is this? I see a tanker and leave also? 「whiskey tango foxtrot」. Team of 5 is hard, team of 4 is excellent... I will not write a well argumented long post, because i have not enough time, education and english is not my native language. But saying tanking is tolerable because its a free world is just wrong. It is a multiplayer team game. As if there isn't enough pisspoor things in this great game. Including my irresponsible use of Haechi. Apparantly if a 30 year Grand Chess Champion playing against a 8 yr old amateur is Fun. Now I am really puzzled, because that what was real fun in my childhood. Playing chess against adult pro chess player. It is not like you are losing money, or being physically abused or something if you lost, am I right? And Pix is DEFINITELY not trying to create unfair advantage for some, no. They are NOT introducing OP bots that can break the game, or making another tier of upgrades that could be achieved only by paying alot, right? And they WERE trying to balance Dashes after "gathered enough statistics", yes? And they "heard players" and made sure no Mk2 stuff would get into the same fight as your common players, yeah? Please don't tell me you forgot all of their unfulfilled promises. All of this were "impossible to introduce"? I think you are just making things up now.
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Post by AVC on Dec 15, 2017 20:44:44 GMT -5
Can't wait to use my 2x lvl 12 mk2 Taran lvl 1 mk1 Kumiho!
Pixonic doesn't want tanking to happen. But every solution they've tried has failed. Let me hear your solution for it. Are there any loopholes? Is it realistic? Can Pixonic implement it? Can it punish innocent players? Is anybody going to complain about it? Some people think it's easy to do something. I'm in I.T and I think I see this on a daily if not hourly basis. Management will tell me, "Oh let's do etc etc, You can get that done before end of day right?" Little do they know all the aspects in I.T that need to happen for the request to work.
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Post by Russel on Dec 16, 2017 9:04:28 GMT -5
Some people think it's easy to do something. I'm in I.T and I think I see this on a daily if not hourly basis. Management will tell me, "Oh let's do etc etc, You can get that done before end of day right?" Little do they know all the aspects in I.T that need to happen for the request to work. I love "seven red lines" more, especially the "Scott Williamson Expert" answer to it. Great example showing how some people are looking for excuses while others looking for answers.
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Post by rollinfknpower on Dec 16, 2017 21:23:31 GMT -5
Well I've been a huge advocate of anti tanking for a while now. But I see a lot have already finished the tasks for event and now have bulgasari and shockers. They either had huge clan help or tanked. If you can't beat them, join them. I'm tired of these game ruining fkers getting rewarded. I've been grinding my ads off and I'm not even close. Sorry little guys. I'm coming down to put a hurt on y'all. Dunno if I have time to complete even when I do but it's my only shot. Blame pix for making an impossible task unless you tank
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Post by FlashAhAhh on Dec 16, 2017 21:38:15 GMT -5
Well I've been a huge advocate of anti tanking for a while now. But I see a lot have already finished the tasks for event and now have bulgasari and shockers. They either had huge clan help or tanked. If you can't beat them, join them. I'm tired of these game ruining fkers getting rewarded. I've been grinding my ads off and I'm not even close. Sorry little guys. I'm coming down to put a hurt on y'all. Dunno if I have time to complete even when I do but it's my only shot. Blame pix for making an impossible task unless you tank
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