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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 9, 2017 10:51:56 GMT -5
A 12/12/12 Thunder/Taran Boa attacked me when I was in a beacon defense position on Shentzen. I was in Plasma Gal and I'd just finished off an half dead Plasma Griff, a full HP Plasma Griff (both of them seemed to think that it's okay to stand still while firing plasmas - while I was jinking all the time while firing back). A Trident Fury was watching me the whole time, but let the Griffs do the fighting (had the Fury just stepped on 30-40m, he'd ckear shot at me - I got lucky he held back). The first PDB Griff pilot I killed came back with a Thunder Taran Boa and dropped shield and ran behind a corner. For some the Boa pilot took a wide approach to the corner and I used that as my opening. I put up my shield and drove to his right (the Boa's empty side) and I circled him at less than 10m. Boas are weak when circled to their right as usually only 1 weapon will strike (due to the turn radius and usually one weapon being missing due targeting problems) and Galahads are strong when encircling a target when moving to left. Even being at half HP and my shield nealy depleted from the PDB Griffs, I took out the full HP Boa quite easily. The Thunder is the best close range weapon in thus game, but most pilots don't know how to use it properly and depend way too much on the targeting reticle. This Boa pilot got smoked because he couldn't defend against a circling bot and this could not get both weapons on target (which is what happens if you only use your turret to move your weapons). Lesson for Boa users - learn how to counter an encircling attack. Also, the Taran, Orkan, and Thunder have vastly different targeting against moving bots. The smash the big red button attack will frequently get you only 1 weapon hitting the target --- so you must learn how to separately target and fire each weapon (the Lancelot has similar issues). I don't see Boas much anymore in top tier, mostly due to the Lance and Galahad being able to do just about the same duties. Overall, I'm not sure about using a Boa in high bronze. I'm pretty sure that the 96% win rate seems like a squadding and/or cherry picking win rate and that the 70s rate posted by someone that stated they had similar hangar seems more typical.
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Post by Golden Sabre on Jan 9, 2017 11:05:18 GMT -5
Great post, I'm slowly working my way up to an effective boa hangar for if nothing more, to be a clubber killer. I really wish a few more people would do something like this for ALL of the bots, and sticky them in the tips and tricks section. I for one would love to have some more ideas about the lowly Cossacks I'm terrorizing with right now. (Salty, I'm looking at you)
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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 9, 2017 11:30:19 GMT -5
Thank you for this guide!
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 11:32:52 GMT -5
Overall, I'm not sure about using a Boa in high bronze. I'm pretty sure that the 96% win rate seems like a squadding win rate and that the 70s rate posted by someone that stated they had similar hangar seems more typical. If you're going to call me a liar, have the integrity to be more blunt. My win rate has been discussed in many threads in these forums. I showed >90% when I was originally farming in 2/4 Punisher Cossacks, maintained 80-90% when I moved up to Last Stand, slowly increased the number of Boas I was running, made a dash for Gold to clan up from the silver to gold wiki clans in Nov/Dec by running trash gold and lost 15-20%, came back to silver and have been running in the 90s ever since. (I'm also close to succeeding in that transition to Gold again.) My win rate was high before I was in a clan, didn't spike when I joined a clan, and only made the most recent jump when I refined my brick fighting strategies. These transitions are all thoroughly documented in multiple threads, many of which I even started, which makes them very simple for you to find. Also, you should decline to comment further unless you're actually going to read anything that you're commenting on. You didn't read about my damage numbers, you still haven't figured out which tier I'm in even though other users have corrected you, and the "similar hangar" had less than 50% overlap with mine and that 40% was the portion I said was less preferable! You've talked about your experiences in Bronze and also fighting Top bots like any of that is relevant. Perhaps you'd just be happier somewhere else?
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Jan 9, 2017 12:09:09 GMT -5
Whoops, my fault for not reading everything and not seeing that you play random in silver.
That's very impressive by any measure to attain such a record in silver when playing random, playing all matches, and playing all maps against 4/12 Mag Geps and 4/9 Taran Rogs.
What's your planned hangar in gold/top tier?
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[AurN] perfectlyGoodInk
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Jan 9, 2017 12:11:34 GMT -5
Oh shoot, wish I'd read that second part before I formatted my tablet ROM in order to brick it. On the up side, I sure don't see any Red faces anymore... besides my own.
Just kidding, awesome post, man!
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 12:46:43 GMT -5
How about a subforum for guidelines?
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jan 9, 2017 12:49:42 GMT -5
I like that idea... a tips, tricks, and tutorials section. Within the Advice forum.
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 13:02:34 GMT -5
How to use bots and how to use weapons. And the good ones could be pinned.
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 13:38:26 GMT -5
Whoops, my fault for not reading everything and not seeing that you play random in silver. That's very impressive by any measure to attain such a record in silver when playing random, playing all matches, and playing all maps against 4/12 Mag Geps and 4/9 Taran Rogs. What's your planned hangar in gold/top tier? No worries. (And yes, I play everything, every time. I argue for exactly that style of play in threads all the time. Why? Well, to improve your skills. I think it's a fairly solid argument from me at this point, no?) ?? The trash gold I was running was 4 Griffins (2x PDB, RDB, DB) and a Thunder Carnage. I'll probably have swapped both PDBs for Galahads before I move back up, though. (That's only another 1500 Au and I may make sure the wraps are at 9, not just 8.) Otherwise, it'll probably stay the same for a while. I suspect I'll have a passel of Galahads long-term, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 13:39:17 GMT -5
Both your statements are correct. Boas are huge nopes for me, I just swerve and look for a support bot to munch on. TBH I would be afraid of a Zeus Carnage, I personally would just run around a capture beacons and annoy the enemy team, that's what Cossacks are for and its really funny seeing a whole bunch of people try to kill you as you got so little health I've run into Zeus and Thunder Carnages that were devastating. Both barrels go off 2-3x and a bot folds. Thunder of God!
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 13:40:27 GMT -5
How to use bots and how to use weapons. And the good ones could be pinned. Huh. Sounds like a wiki. Neat idea! Ohwaitaminnit..... Should I share this post as a wiki article, then? Didn't know if it was useful enough to warrant such promotion.
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 13:43:02 GMT -5
TBH I would be afraid of a Zeus Carnage, I personally would just run around a capture beacons and annoy the enemy team, that's what Cossacks are for and its really funny seeing a whole bunch of people try to kill you as you got so little health I've run into Zeus and Thunder Carnages that were devastating. Both barrels go off 2-3x and a bot folds. Thunder of God! When you're brickfighting the nice thing is that when bots decide to hunt you down they generally don't get a good shot off until you're lunging at them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 13:48:25 GMT -5
I run 7/9 Boas, and they are so tough. Almost makes ya feel sad for those PDB Griffin's, almost.
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Pbartender
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Post by Pbartender on Jan 9, 2017 13:50:27 GMT -5
Okay, so I've used similar tactics with my Orkan Cossacks, and my "Stormtrooper" Golems. I'm wondering... How do you deal with more open maps, such as Canyon or Springfield?
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 13:59:24 GMT -5
How to use bots and how to use weapons. And the good ones could be pinned. Huh. Sounds like a wiki. Neat idea! Ohwaitaminnit..... Should I share this post as a wiki article, then? Didn't know if it was useful enough to warrant such promotion. Well, I use the wiki, when I got a general idea and want to confirm something about it. I also use the wiki, when I wanna know, how something works. But I use the forum, when I wanna know, how something is done.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jan 9, 2017 14:02:40 GMT -5
Huh. Sounds like a wiki. Neat idea! Ohwaitaminnit..... Should I share this post as a wiki article, then? Didn't know if it was useful enough to warrant such promotion. Well, I use the wiki, when I got a general idea and want to confirm something about it. I also use the wiki, when I wanna know, how something works. But I use the forum, when I wanna know, how something is done. That's about how I see it... the forum is where I go to get advice on "how", for the "what" the WIKI is my destination.
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 14:18:15 GMT -5
Okay, so I've used similar tactics with my Orkan Cossacks, and my "Stormtrooper" Golems. I'm wondering... How do you deal with more open maps, such as Canyon or Springfield? Again, by making a beeline for the place that is going to stick in the craw of the Reds the most. In Canyon if the spawns are way back in the corners then I'm usually heading to the beacon on their side of the bridge. My goal is to shove into the beacon and use the giant pillar to pole dance with attackers. If the spawns are more straight across the bridge then I'm probably going to dance around the bottom of the center beacon with them. This can vary if the Reds don't seem as interested in coming over to me or spend their whole time trying to rush the spawn with waves of Geps. In Springfield I get out of the ditch ASAP. I strongly prefer the plant-side and will typically immediately charge across the bridge from the farm, but I have no problems going for the center farm-side beacon if that's what'll annoy the Reds most. If I start farthest from the farm then I'll cap both plant-side beacons and either spawn raid right there (if their spawn is also plant-side) or look for an opportunity to cross towards the farm beacon, cap that, and corner shoot any Reds who spawn and don't come my way. Again, your goal isn't to walk into the largest cloud of Reds. You want to pick a spot that causes the majority of the Reds to come to you instead. You don't need most damage to be successful with a high win% while brickfighting. Rather, you need to have the most eyes for the most time pointed at you. Also, while you cross the occasional open areas on your way, don't worry about losing too much health. Worry about whether you can make it to your spot and draw attention. That doesn't mean that you blindly tromp through bullets and plasma, though. Like I mentioned above, you should feel free to use points of cover to stay alive and viable. Just don't let those detours prevent you from actually making it TO the spot where you can shove that brick right between the teeth of the Reds.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 14:53:40 GMT -5
I ran Thunder Schutzes in bronze for months and I've seen all kinds of bronze hangars, but those numbers look like squading numbers to me. If that is so, it's hard to judge whether the setup would work if going completely random. I lead with a Gep to capture beacons and then flip to the Boas. I'm not in a clan and have never joined a squad. While I'm just an average player I can imagine it being possible based on my numbers, just not by me:
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Post by Pbartender on Jan 9, 2017 16:06:56 GMT -5
Okay, so I've used similar tactics with my Orkan Cossacks, and my "Stormtrooper" Golems. I'm wondering... How do you deal with more open maps, such as Canyon or Springfield? Again, by making a beeline for the place that is going to stick in the craw of the Reds the most. In Canyon if the spawns are way back in the corners then I'm usually heading to the beacon on their side of the bridge. My goal is to shove into the beacon and use the giant pillar to pole dance with attackers. If the spawns are more straight across the bridge then I'm probably going to dance around the bottom of the center beacon with them. This can vary if the Reds don't seem as interested in coming over to me or spend their whole time trying to rush the spawn with waves of Geps. In Springfield I get out of the ditch ASAP. I strongly prefer the plant-side and will typically immediately charge across the bridge from the farm, but I have no problems going for the center farm-side beacon if that's what'll annoy the Reds most. If I start farthest from the farm then I'll cap both plant-side beacons and either spawn raid right there (if their spawn is also plant-side) or look for an opportunity to cross towards the farm beacon, cap that, and corner shoot any Reds who spawn and don't come my way. Again, your goal isn't to walk into the largest cloud of Reds. You want to pick a spot that causes the majority of the Reds to come to you instead. You don't need most damage to be successful with a high win% while brickfighting. Rather, you need to have the most eyes for the most time pointed at you. Also, while you cross the occasional open areas on your way, don't worry about losing too much health. Worry about whether you can make it to your spot and draw attention. That doesn't mean that you blindly tromp through bullets and plasma, though. Like I mentioned above, you should feel free to use points of cover to stay alive and viable. Just don't let those detours prevent you from actually making it TO the spot where you can shove that brick right between the teeth of the Reds. So, in other words... I should basically use the same tactics I already use with my Cossacks, just a little slower and with a lot more firepower. Rock on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 17:11:39 GMT -5
I actually dislike Orkans on a Boa. In low silver, there are no reasons to use Orkans. The main purpose of the Boa is to destroy gepards and compete with heavy bots like Leos and Griffins. There are no shield bots except an occasional molot Gareth. Orkans should only be used for their burst damage, and if you can't kill the enemy in 5-6 seconds with Orkan Boa, you might as well be using a Punisher Boa. With the Boa, to conserve your health, you want to fight 1 enemy at once. The Boa has the worst firepower of all medium bots. Enemies should die in 9 seconds, the time it takes until you have to reload both your Taran and your Thunder. But your win rate's higher than mine so....
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 18:01:02 GMT -5
I actually dislike Orkans on a Boa. In low silver, there are no reasons to use Orkans. The main purpose of the Boa is to destroy gepards and compete with heavy bots like Leos and Griffins. There are no shield bots except an occasional molot Gareth. Orkans should only be used for their burst damage, and if you can't kill the enemy in 5-6 seconds with Orkan Boa, you might as well be using a Punisher Boa. You really think so? The main reason, I field Boas is another: To capture and hold beacons. Sometimes I can go on a hunt. About my Gareth: It is equipped full plasma and will rip any lone heavy apart, without breaking a sweat. Edit: frigging autocorrect....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 18:13:37 GMT -5
I actually dislike Orkans on a Boa. In low silver, there are no reasons to use Orkans. The main purpose of the Boa is to destroy gepards and compete with heavy bots like Leos and Griffins. There are no shield bots except an occasional molot Gareth. Orkans should only be used for their burst damage, and if you can't kill the enemy in 5-6 seconds with Orkan Boa, you might as well be using a Punisher Boa. You really think so? The main reason, I field Boas is another: To capture and hold beacons. Sometimes I can go on a hunt. About my Gareth: It is equipped full plasma and will rip any lone heavy apart, without breaking a sweat. Edit: frigging autocorrect.... My Boas are used in low silver. In my 600+ games there, the only full plasma bot I seen was a 1/1 Plasma Galahad. My gareth also can put up a fight with Boas and Leos. Maybe not a griffin
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 18:23:00 GMT -5
Then I challenge you! Bring a pic, only use your Gary. If it is better than mine, well, we see about that.
Btw, my Gary is lvl 4\6. What is yours?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 18:29:37 GMT -5
Then I challenge you! Bring a pic, only use your Gary. If it is better than mine, well, we see about that. Btw, my Gary is lvl 4\6. What is yours? My Gareth is level 4 / 5 / 6 with Orkan Mag. Which tier do you want me to play with it?
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 18:46:02 GMT -5
Mine is 4\6\6 full plasma.
Usually I play high bronze, low silber.
I would suggest, you name your favorite tier and we meet in the middle.
Fair?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2017 18:48:48 GMT -5
I play there too, but what is your lineup?
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 18:53:33 GMT -5
Lineup? A picture? Coming soon...
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Jan 9, 2017 19:00:17 GMT -5
Here is my favorite Hangar!
Could you tell me MM changes, when you experience them?
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 9, 2017 19:04:13 GMT -5
I actually dislike Orkans on a Boa. In low silver, there are no reasons to use Orkans. The main purpose of the Boa is to destroy gepards and compete with heavy bots like Leos and Griffins. But your win rate's higher than mine so.... There are more Orkans than Tarans in Gold and Top. In those crime fighting shows on the teevee they call that 'a clue.' Boas can do a lot more than just take on heavies and, realistically, they're not very good at all for chasing down Geps. They're FANTASTIC, though, for smashing a brick into the face of every Red that tries to chase YOU down. Also, while Tarans are generally a little better for fighting multiple opponents, the "reload as you go" nature of Orkans should not be underestimated. When you're brickfighting you'll rarely have a full load to let loose on an opponent of either the Thunders or Orkans. Between pole dancing and the constant loading, however, this isn't necessarily a problem, so long as you stay aware and aggressively pound on Reds the moment that it's feasible. The precise reason for the Orkans as I mentioned above, however, is precisely that burst damage that saves your hide in the long run.
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