|
Post by Muhlakai on Oct 3, 2016 15:08:52 GMT -5
What's the catch to Orkans? Rarely can I ever land most of a salvo on the target. If I aim straight at them it tends to be just to the left side (makes sense, since I'm using them on a Boa) but if I try to lead the target or aim towards their right side (from my perspective) then they seem to fly off to the right. Where the heck is the sweet spot?
|
|
|
Post by Duodec on Oct 3, 2016 15:22:10 GMT -5
I keep hearing that you have to lead the targets a little bit but I find that to be spotty at best. I just keep shooting and live with it. I definitely seems to be a bug that they're in no hurry to fix. I run three boas with tarans so I feel your pain.
|
|
|
Post by Muhlakai on Oct 3, 2016 19:44:25 GMT -5
Read again. Leading doesn't seem to help. ?
I may have to switch it to a taran for now. If you miss with the taran there's another chance in, at most, 5sec. By the time I know that I'm missing with the Orkan I'm nearly depleted ...with a much longer reload.
|
|
|
Post by Duodec on Oct 3, 2016 21:00:38 GMT -5
I read you just fine the first time. Conventional wisdom is to lead your targets a little. At max range this can be spotty at best because flight times are so long. Occasionally you get an entire salvo that seems to miss at long ranges for no apparent reason though. This could be due in part to a faster opponent backpedaling which when combined with a slow rocket speed means they've moved out of the splash radius by the time it reaches them. Shooting from high angles above they can even walk right past (think from a bridge on yamantau). It's easier to correct for when it's left to right movement because you can lead. Back and forth your best bet is to get closer to minimize travel times for the rockets.
|
|
|
Post by DogTrail on Oct 4, 2016 5:44:19 GMT -5
Half of it is leading, the other half is timing, and yet another half is understanding which direction your target is walking (I know, it adds up to more than 1, I just want to illustrate that it's not simple). Two things you need to understand:
1. They're the slowest rockets (i.e. non-homing missiles) in the game 2. They have the smallest splash radius
The leading part is simple enough - the farther the target is, the farther ahead you lead. If the target is close, you can pretty much shoot straight. Faster bots also need leading farther ahead. Judging this comes with experience.
Timing - does the target have momentum, or is it changing direction? Of course it's always best to shoot at something that is stationary or close to it. The main thing is you want to catch someone off-guard and doesn't anticipate the salvo coming. Or, can't do anything about it - like a Leo, a Griffin that just jumped, a Lance that just used rush. This is also acquired from experience.
Direction of target - is it walking in a circle around you? In a straight line sideways but slightly away from you? All this contributes to whether or not your rockets will hit. If it's walking towards you but at an angle, then the rockets could fly past them if they don't make contact with the target. IF they're walking away, then they might be fast enough to escape the splash radius. A Rhino in assault mode is fast enough to dodge this. Obviously this is also acquired with experience.
Bottom line - Orkans (or rockets, in general) are more tricky to use than plasma weapons in general (although a couple of updates ago, the Magnum suffered an accuracy nerf as well). I don't think Orkans are very useful in the lower tiers, but they become important in high silver and gold because of the predominance of shield bots, so it's pretty important to learn how to use them at some point.
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 5, 2016 11:27:35 GMT -5
Also, it is not a bad idea to practice with the Pinatas... same rockets and less forgiving if you miss since Orks can reload while firing and allow you to continuously damage/annoy your target... so I find it encourages me to hone my craft. IF you can get good with say, a Patton Pinata, where missing usually means you are dead due to the lack of any shield and low HP (relatively) but hitting with all 4 will cripple the big guys and destroy the little ones (usually), then by the time you are running an advanced bot/load-out with Orks, you should be more than capable with them.
I practiced with level 1 or 2 bots (Gep, Patton, Destrier) and some brand new lvl 5 pinatas... 2 or 3 bots outfitted with them, and I used them constantly for a few games. Dropping that low in tiers usually puts you against fast bots as most people run either beginner setups or Geps at that level. VERY hard to hit. So, if you are OK with losing at first (dropping that win % and damage earned average), until you get the skills up, it can be a good way to jump feet first into the fray and figure them out. Stats can be recovered since it is just an average of past 50 battles... and is a useful weapon to be good with.
IMHO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 16:56:43 GMT -5
Being realistic, long range + Orks = miss quite a lot, but there are 32 of them. Paired on a Rog, levelled up to 8+ and they are just brutal at >150m. Put the same on a Griffin, and it will carry you a long way into Gold. My standard fix to a Gep/Mag is to wait just around a corner, and do 60k of damage in 3 seconds....
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 5, 2016 17:43:02 GMT -5
Just FYI, I played a few games just now, and the only robot I have with Orks atm is the Boa with a thunder. I tried to take note of when I used the orks the most this time to better answer your post, and tbh, almost all of the shots were ambushing (Like the post above said, waiting around the corner is one example, took out a lot that way) and holding on to them until the very last second, absorbing their opening salvos sometimes in order to get close enough to "see the white of their eyes," as that old WW1 ace would say. Not much leading going into it, very few times did I even pull the trigger over 200 meters. Since I paired the Ork with a Thunder, it works outstandingly up close in conjunction. Little to no skill needed if they don't move... and if they do the Boa makes it pretty easy to keep sidestepping and/or circling them (say, if it is a shield bot like a Rhino or Rajiin.) So, it may not be that people who use them well are much better than you at it, just that they wait until there can't be much of a miss... at least, if my experience is any guide. It is very much a "bait and wait... devastate" type weapon. So, my question to you is, are you trying to use them at their max range on moving targets? If so, maybe just wait till you get a little closer and for them to focus on someone else, then just give them the reward for their good behavior. P.S. I am not saying you cannot hit them at 300 - 200 meters effectively, many do, and I do remember a few shots that I hit as soon as the range got under 300m... but if they are moving perpendicular to you and you have to lead at that range, it is almost a guarantee that some of the salvo will miss, even if you are perfect with your placement. Especially a fast bot. They will still feel it though, so if not a 1 v 1 battle, it may be worth emptying your magazine just to soften or distract the target. All depends on the situation.
|
|
|
Post by Muhlakai on Oct 5, 2016 20:11:08 GMT -5
{snip} ....close enough to "see the white of their eyes," as that old WW1 ace would say. P.S. I am not saying you cannot hit them at 300 - 200 meters effectively, many do, and I do remember a few shots that I hit as soon as the range got under 300m... History fun fact: "Hold until you can see the whites of their eyes" comes from the US Revolutionary War. I'm seeing the aiming variance with them coming straight at me, mostly 200-300m out. Heading straight at me shouldn't be a major issue. (Correction is, of course, with the small movement bug right now, but that's a different issue.) I'm actually doing ok if they're moving laterally at under 300m. Sure, some will miss, but if you start ahead of them and track slower than they're crossing you end up hitting with many.
|
|
|
Post by DogTrail on Oct 5, 2016 20:20:07 GMT -5
Thing is, Tricky48, getting into that ambush position and getting to under 200m is a skill in itself. Sure it's not much skill once you get into shooting position, but getting there isn't always easy.
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Oct 5, 2016 21:41:32 GMT -5
This is me playing the thunder orkan pinata golem.
|
|
|
Post by Strayed on Oct 5, 2016 21:42:26 GMT -5
I usually run a thunder taran boa but I was trying out the new cossack speed.
|
|
|
Post by Muhlakai on Oct 6, 2016 1:22:10 GMT -5
Hmm. I can't decide if I think the Orkan does or does not have parallax. In other words, I can't decide if the Orkan's missiles are fired at a slight angle towards the inside (to converge at the target's center) or if they fire straight from the launcher.
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 6, 2016 11:38:54 GMT -5
{snip} ....close enough to "see the white of their eyes," as that old WW1 ace would say. P.S. I am not saying you cannot hit them at 300 - 200 meters effectively, many do, and I do remember a few shots that I hit as soon as the range got under 300m... History fun fact: "Hold until you can see the whites of their eyes" comes from the US Revolutionary War. I'm seeing the aiming variance with them coming straight at me, mostly 200-300m out. Heading straight at me shouldn't be a major issue. (Correction is, of course, with the small movement bug right now, but that's a different issue.) I'm actually doing ok if they're moving laterally at under 300m. Sure, some will miss, but if you start ahead of them and track slower than they're crossing you end up hitting with many. Fair enough, then the only issue I have had at when they are moving straight at me is when they are in a bot that can outrun the rockets at the 200 - 300 m range. Galahads, Gareths, (With shields down), fast light bots, Bots with Rush or Assault abilities, etc. IF they see it coming they can backpedal and avoid most if not all of the salvo, as was stated above... but otherwise I haven't noticed anything amiss... pun intended ;p I do not think that running forward will cause the same miss, by those backpeddalers, as I haven't looked for that scenario. I would assume running into the fray will not save them the way running backwards would, but that's just a guess. And roger that on the quote... I swore it was the Red Baron... lol
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 6, 2016 11:41:18 GMT -5
Thing is, Tricky48, getting into that ambush position and getting to under 200m is a skill in itself. Sure it's not much skill once you get into shooting position, but getting there isn't always easy. true enough...
|
|
|
Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 6, 2016 11:41:55 GMT -5
Hmm. I can't decide if I think the Orkan does or does not have parallax. In other words, I can't decide if the Orkan's missiles are fired at a slight angle towards the inside (to converge at the target's center) or if they fire straight from the launcher. I think that it is straight out of the launcher...
|
|
|
Post by Orukal on Oct 6, 2016 11:50:16 GMT -5
Well in the match, target something that is just beyond your Orkan range. Close the range but make sure they're not centered in your HUD but off to one side. When you get into range, look to see if the Orkan moves left or right in order to compensate for their position.
|
|
|
Post by Ron Gaul on Oct 6, 2016 11:58:18 GMT -5
The phrase "hold until you can see the whites of their eyes" was from the Battle of Bunker Hill, where a small colonial militia force fought a much larger British army almost to a standstill. The British army was eventually able to force the militia to retreat, but only after suffering vastly more casualties than the colonists. So, while it was a technical victory for England, it also proved that the colonists were more than capable of holding their own against the British army, which hitherto had assumed the colonists would not be capable of putting up much of a fight. This had a major effect on British strategy and tactics throughout the remainder of the war, making them much more cautious. Which, in turn, allowed the colonists to exploit some situations where the British were reluctant to advance or to press an advantage. The colonists had nothing to lose; the British, everything.
Orkans...I try to use them only at 150m or less, unless my target is a heavy bot. And even then, against a rushing Lancelot, a lot of rockets may still miss (depending on which way the Lance is going). But, for anything fast like a Gareth, Galahad, Gepard, or rushing Carnage, I'll try to hold my fire until the range is less than 150m. By that point they can't really dodge.
I'll even deliberately bait Orkans users into firing prematurely when I'm running my Gareth or Galahad...it's the only way to survive if you have to close range.
But, I only own two Orkans and only use one of them on a semi-regular basis. I play in low gold tier and try to stick to either midrange splash, Thunders, or plasma. A good RDB can take out a DB setup long before the DB is in firing range; to me, 300m is just too close for comfort in most scenarios, and if I'm engaging at that range, I'd rather have a Thunder anyway.
|
|
|
Post by DogTrail on Oct 6, 2016 21:18:11 GMT -5
Not 100% sure here, but I think they converge at a point a little behind the target... except they never reach that point because they explode at the target's exact distance already. Specifically, at the target's exact distance at the time you launched the rocket, unless it makes contact with the target earlier.
Anyway, I think they converge because if you notice, if your target is very close, your weapons point towards a point of convergence. They don't just go up or down, they also go inwards. If the weapons don't converge, then a Rhino shouldn't be able to shoot at you if you're a Cossack on its nose. But it can.
|
|
|
Post by Heishiro on Oct 7, 2016 23:03:04 GMT -5
at 1st i also have some difficulty on using orkans, i just watch youtube and see how other people use them, then i start using orkan with cossack. if you can successfully run orkan with cossack then you can use them with other bot
|
|
Neg0Pander
Site Designer!
Grab 'em by the Griffin
Posts: 329
Karma: 221
Pilot name: Neg0Pander
Platform: Android
Clan: WIKITTENS [WiKi]
League: Silver
|
Post by Neg0Pander on Oct 27, 2016 18:17:12 GMT -5
I just found this thread. Very helpful because my aim with Orks is atrocious. It seems I was trying to use them at Max range too much. probably why I hadn't been a big fan. I'm going to practice holding till 150.
|
|
|
Post by amintorz on Oct 27, 2016 19:07:11 GMT -5
I wanted to make a similar post about Aphids. All I can hit with those is the side of a building. Lol
As for the Orkins; Remember, when your targeting, you can pop off a few shots quickly to see where they are landing before dropping the whole load.
Put two of them on a Rog and you can melt pretty much anything if you land them all
|
|