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Post by Redfiend on Jun 5, 2021 10:30:30 GMT -5
Pulse cannons are just flat out better than Carb 8 and 10 except 30M or less. Aside from Zephyr, most mechs want to stay out of that range, less they get shafted by Zeps, Guardians, Killshots, or even Redox.
Their optimal range is 60, which doubles the damage per pellet. It's rank up bonus also brings it's bullet grouping to the same tightness of Autocannons/Carbines.
At <60M, 5.1, 6 seconds of fire:
Pulse 8: 31,200
Carb 8: 19,250(entire magazine)
Carb 10: 24,100
At <30M, carbines take the cake by quite a bit, however, the 30M range is literally the kill box for most mech abilities in game.
For sustained fire outside of the 30M, with their full accuracy bonus they're really, really strong. Also, shortest reload in the game.
I feel like a lot of the end game loadouts for mechs other than lights (except dual 12 EN loadouts) forces some specialization.
Some examples:
Heavy mechs(24EN)
Railgun: MR8(Mid/close), LA8(Mid/long).
Stasis 16: MR8(ALL), Pulse(Medium/close), LA8(Mid/Long) RM8(Long)
Mediums(18EN)
Arc Torrent 10: MR8(close+ Hail mary), Carb 8(close/medium)
Carb 10: MR8(Close), Carb 8(close/medium), Pulse 8(medium)
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Post by Danny Linguini on Jun 5, 2021 11:17:52 GMT -5
I had a feeling about this. PCs always seem to tear me up pretty good, especially my Killshot when the dash doesn’t kill its target.
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Post by OU812? on Jun 5, 2021 12:25:07 GMT -5
You’re on to an interesting observation here.
I’ve only recently acquired and cloned carbine 10s and 12s. In comparison, I was struck by the efficiency of Pulse Cannons at distant enough that I’ve run a PC 8 with carbine on Ares and Panther. It’s worked well.
Like you point out, the carbines really shine at thirty meters or less, but being within thirty meters of many other bots is risky, especially for KS and Panthers. I can see why Juggs, Zephs, etc are so deadly with carbines.
One takeaway from the recents buff to AI Mechs with fully upgraded pulse cannons have made me question whether I needed carbines at all. I typically enjoy non-meta builds and tend to like to keep my distance from the enemy. If I’d realized highly upgraded Pulse Cannons (and RPGs) were that efficient I think I’d been tempted to save the A-coins.
I’m confident I won’t be disappointed by the carbines though. If anything, I’m impressed by the perception of balance within MAs current weapons.
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Post by Old-Cat on Jun 5, 2021 12:57:59 GMT -5
I run a Carb 10 and Pulse 8 on my Jug, corner w the pulse wait for the reload and unleash both up close , brutal.
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Post by punishingcossack on Jun 5, 2021 14:19:56 GMT -5
Pulse cannons are just flat out better than Carb 8 and 10 except 30M or less. Aside from Zephyr, most mechs want to stay out of that range, less they get shafted by Zeps, Guardians, Killshots, or even Redox. Their optimal range is 60, which doubles the damage per pellet. It's rank up bonus also brings it's bullet grouping to the same tightness of Autocannons/Carbines. At <60M, 5.1, 6 seconds of fire: Pulse 8: 31,200 Carb 8: 19,250(entire magazine) Carb 10: 24,100 At <30M, carbines take the cake by quite a bit, however, the 30M range is literally the kill box for most mech abilities in game. For sustained fire outside of the 30M, with their full accuracy bonus they're really, really strong. Also, shortest reload in the game. I feel like a lot of the end game loadouts for mechs other than lights (except dual 12 EN loadouts) forces some specialization. Some examples: Heavy mechs(24EN) Railgun: MR8(Mid/close), LA8(Mid/long). Stasis 16: MR8(ALL), Pulse(Medium/close), LA8(Mid/Long) RM8(Long) Mediums(18EN) Arc Torrent 10: MR8(close+ Hail mary), Carb 8(close/medium) Carb 10: MR8(Close), Carb 8(close/medium), Pulse 8(medium) where are you getting these numbers from? pulse cannon at base level does 23400 in a clip |
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 5, 2021 19:10:07 GMT -5
where are you getting these numbers from? pulse cannon at base level does 23400 in a clip Optimal range doubles the damage of bullet weapons regularly, and bullet weapons have a critical chance where pellets can do triple damage. My 4.1 Pulse 8's are listed as 20,070 per magazine, 223 per pellet. Optimal range hits 446, with about the same amount of stray bullets hitting 223 and 669. In 60M, 20,070, which is 90x223, becomes 40,140 if the entire mag is fired <60M 5.1 pulse is listed at 23,400, 260 per bullet. 520 average damage per pellet <60M. 6 seconds of fire is 60 bullets : 31,200 damage. 46,800 for the entire magazine(90, 9 seconds). |
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 5, 2021 19:33:31 GMT -5
OU812? I have both Stasis lasers, since I'm still a ways away from having the coins to R5 my hangar, I put stasis 12 and MR8 on Paragon, and intend on keeping the MR8 with Stasis 16 after ranking it up. I didn't realize the Stasis beams have a max range of 150 like the missile racks. Anything that gets slowed can't get out of the way, and eats all 6 missiles at range. Optimal range for Stasis, 90M, functions the same as Pulse cannons, where it's damage per tick doubles. While progress gets tedious late game, the items themselves are actually pretty balanced on a level for level basis. It's pretty much the only reason I've stuck with this game. 
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Post by dukeofadvil on Jun 7, 2021 9:21:48 GMT -5
Pulse cannons are just flat out better than Carb 8 and 10 except 30M or less. Aside from Zephyr, most mechs want to stay out of that range, less they get shafted by Zeps, Guardians, Killshots, or even Redox. Their optimal range is 60, which doubles the damage per pellet. It's rank up bonus also brings it's bullet grouping to the same tightness of Autocannons/Carbines. At <60M, 5.1, 6 seconds of fire: Pulse 8: 31,200 Carb 8: 19,250(entire magazine) Carb 10: 24,100 At <30M, carbines take the cake by quite a bit, however, the 30M range is literally the kill box for most mech abilities in game. For sustained fire outside of the 30M, with their full accuracy bonus they're really, really strong. Also, shortest reload in the game. I feel like a lot of the end game loadouts for mechs other than lights (except dual 12 EN loadouts) forces some specialization. Some examples: Heavy mechs(24EN) Railgun: MR8(Mid/close), LA8(Mid/long). Stasis 16: MR8(ALL), Pulse(Medium/close), LA8(Mid/Long) RM8(Long) Mediums(18EN) Arc Torrent 10: MR8(close+ Hail mary), Carb 8(close/medium) Carb 10: MR8(Close), Carb 8(close/medium), Pulse 8(medium)  Currently running Carb12(5-6) and PC8(4-7) on my Panther and have been hyper-focused on Cloning the Carb.....waiting on blueprints... I like how running the 2 different weapons give you an almost sustained weapon becouse of magazine and reload differences. ☆☆☆☆☆☆ SO WHAT DO YOU THINK, SHOULD I SPEND SOME OF MY RESOURCES TO UPGRADE THE PC8's? |
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 7, 2021 9:56:56 GMT -5
Depends...do you have a platform you really want to run leveled PC8's on?
I don't have anything in my hangar right now that I want to run PC8 on. But, when I do have a mech that I want/need to run, then I'd like to have leveled gear for that mech. For that reason alone, I'm thinking of taking my PC8 to R5 soon.
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 7, 2021 14:39:37 GMT -5
dukeofadvil what koala said. Pairs with Stasis 16 on heavies and carb 10 on mediums to improve the midrange performance of either weapon.
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 9, 2021 9:50:17 GMT -5
I still fall back on the DPS of a full magazine. The Carbines unload faster than the PC8s. This means you lessen you exposure time. Reload is faster, but only by about a second (right?) over the carbines. Also, the accuracy argument seems strange to me. I realize this is probably because I haven't taken my PC8s over R5, so I haven't really seen the full capability of the maximum accuracy. But my observation is that the Carbines are extremely accurate on targets up to 90+ meters out. The catch being that bullet speed and strafing will force near complete inaccuracy, so it still doesn't do fast targets at a distance. Still, with the AI giving instant focus to any hooman, limiting exposure comes at a premium to me. Also, the Carbs gel better with some of the abilities, especially the Zephyr as you can fully unload during an EMP blast.
Please don't get me wrong, I think you've proven that the PC8 is a viable and deadly weapon and it's much more budget friendly than saving for all the Carbs. However, I think it comes down a bit more to playstyle preference when cost is removed from the equation. The good thing is, now that we have custom matches, we can test this!
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 10, 2021 14:09:34 GMT -5
I still fall back on the DPS of a full magazine. The Carbines unload faster than the PC8s. This means you lessen you exposure time. Reload is faster, but only by about a second (right?) over the carbines. Also, the accuracy argument seems strange to me. I realize this is probably because I haven't taken my PC8s over R5, so I haven't really seen the full capability of the maximum accuracy. But my observation is that the Carbines are extremely accurate on targets up to 90+ meters out. The catch being that bullet speed and strafing will force near complete inaccuracy, so it still doesn't do fast targets at a distance. Still, with the AI giving instant focus to any hooman, limiting exposure comes at a premium to me. Also, the Carbs gel better with some of the abilities, especially the Zephyr as you can fully unload during an EMP blast. Please don't get me wrong, I think you've proven that the PC8 is a viable and deadly weapon and it's much more budget friendly than saving for all the Carbs. However, I think it comes down a bit more to playstyle preference when cost is removed from the equation. The good thing is, now that we have custom matches, we can test this! R5 Pulse cannons have the same accuracy cone that Autocannons and Carbines have, so, lasers at Optimal range, same accuracy 100M out. On mechs that WANT to get into the 30M range, Carbine 8 is the better all-range option for the EN slot. Slower mechs and mechs that can't shut down retaliation at point blank, pretty much everything outside of Zephyr and Guardian, gain quite a bit of consistency for choosing Pulse 8 over Carb8. For example: I'll eventually be the guy that plagues people on midrange maps with Pulse 8/Thermal 4, or Pulse 6 Thermal 6 with Shadow from 50M+, because this game is my outlet for cruelty to strangers. Carb 10 and 12 have high enough base damage that they are comparable without modifiers to Pulse 8 with modifiers. With the addition of Arc Torrent 10, Zephyr has access to Carb8+AT10, which is the highest damage it can deal while under 30M while still having a reliable peek and poke up to 105M. AT6+ Carb 12 would be a waste of both weapons because both of them perform better on Light and Heavy mechs respectively. 24EN mechs are still better served by dual Carb 12. The mediums other than zephyr, either have issues closing the gap(tanks) or are extremely squishy (Dashers). That means they need to deal decent damage consistently from further out, while still being effective at point blank, which Pulse8 with Carb 10 can provide for them. The more specialized weapons added, the more specialized setups can get. While symmetrical setups are effective and consistent at what do, they do have weaknesses. Asymmetrical sets, especially on 24en mechs are nothing new. Much like the two weapons paired with RG(LA and MR), the offset if used with a big stick can be used to double down on it's effective range, or symbiotically counteract the downside of the weapon. |
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Post by Deadeye on Jun 11, 2021 11:07:00 GMT -5
I still fall back on the DPS of a full magazine. The Carbines unload faster than the PC8s. This means you lessen you exposure time. Reload is faster, but only by about a second (right?) over the carbines. Also, the accuracy argument seems strange to me. I realize this is probably because I haven't taken my PC8s over R5, so I haven't really seen the full capability of the maximum accuracy. But my observation is that the Carbines are extremely accurate on targets up to 90+ meters out. The catch being that bullet speed and strafing will force near complete inaccuracy, so it still doesn't do fast targets at a distance. Still, with the AI giving instant focus to any hooman, limiting exposure comes at a premium to me. Also, the Carbs gel better with some of the abilities, especially the Zephyr as you can fully unload during an EMP blast. Please don't get me wrong, I think you've proven that the PC8 is a viable and deadly weapon and it's much more budget friendly than saving for all the Carbs. However, I think it comes down a bit more to playstyle preference when cost is removed from the equation. The good thing is, now that we have custom matches, we can test this! R5 Pulse cannons have the same accuracy cone that Autocannons and Carbines have, so, lasers at Optimal range, same accuracy 100M out. On mechs that WANT to get into the 30M range, Carbine 8 is the better all-range option for the EN slot. Slower mechs and mechs that can't shut down retaliation at point blank, pretty much everything outside of Zephyr and Guardian, gain quite a bit of consistency for choosing Pulse 8 over Carb8. For example: I'll eventually be the guy that plagues people on midrange maps with Pulse 8/Thermal 4, or Pulse 6 Thermal 6 with Shadow from 50M+, because this game is my outlet for cruelty to strangers. Carb 10 and 12 have high enough base damage that they are comparable without modifiers to Pulse 8 with modifiers. With the addition of Arc Torrent 10, Zephyr has access to Carb8+AT10, which is the highest damage it can deal while under 30M while still having a reliable peek and poke up to 105M. AT6+ Carb 12 would be a waste of both weapons because both of them perform better on Light and Heavy mechs respectively. 24EN mechs are still better served by dual Carb 12. The mediums other than zephyr, either have issues closing the gap(tanks) or are extremely squishy (Dashers). That means they need to deal decent damage consistently from further out, while still being effective at point blank, which Pulse8 with Carb 10 can provide for them. The more specialized weapons added, the more specialized setups can get. While symmetrical setups are effective and consistent at what do, they do have weaknesses. Asymmetrical sets, especially on 24en mechs are nothing new. Much like the two weapons paired with RG(LA and MR), the offset if used with a big stick can be used to double down on it's effective range, or symbiotically counteract the downside of the weapon. No additional comment...just want to highlight my favorite statement.  |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 11, 2021 13:25:15 GMT -5
Right before this thread was posted, like maybe the day before, I took my PC 8s to 6* Lvl 1.
I read this thread and decided I would try some things out...
The Shadow build was great against AI in CPC. I haven't used it a lot so I withhold final judgement, but it worked pretty damned well. And the accuracy of the PCs is definitely notable sub 60M. It was like a hose of laser fire lol.
I need to try it after I play enough games for the AI to start ramping up, as well as against live players, before I call it a keeper... but that game was fun.
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 11, 2021 13:39:04 GMT -5
Would dual PC6 be better than that PC8/TL4 build? I know on paper, the damage output should be close but the TL series takes a while to fully reload. Plus, I'm also wondering if maybe RPG6 wouldn't be a better weapon for the Shadow? I did try PC6 very briefly on my Shadow way back when but didn't really like that I had to be exposed for so long. Sure, against AI it did alright, but good human players can pick off Shadows in Stealth pretty easily.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 11, 2021 14:04:04 GMT -5
Would dual PC6 be better than that PC8/TL4 build? I know on paper, the damage output should be close but the TL series takes a while to fully reload. Plus, I'm also wondering if maybe RPG6 wouldn't be a better weapon for the Shadow? I did try PC6 very briefly on my Shadow way back when but didn't really like that I had to be exposed for so long. Sure, against AI it did alright, but good human players can pick off Shadows in Stealth pretty easily. Personally, I didn't like the RPG Shadow. Various reasons... but mostly it was just not very good dealing with things close up. I haven't leveled my PC 6s past 4* so IDK if 2 of them would be better or not... but I did run it back when my whole hangar was 4 - 5*. I didn't really like it. I can definitely say I enjoyed the PC 8 TL 4 build. It was surprisingly good, and if I used corner shooting along with the Stealth, I was able to keep firing almost non-stop. It actually just felt right.
I prefer my RPGs either on the MD, or as secondary weapons. Combos that I used to use MR 6s as the second weapon, the RPG 6 has taken their place. Both are leveled the same and I get better "alternate" fire from it. It's hard to pin down exactly which is better, but for the way I use it, I like RPG 6s.
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 11, 2021 14:08:06 GMT -5
Yeah, in a contest between MR6 and RPG6, the RPG6 wins hands down for me too.
I have run Shadow with RPG6 and found it ok. Not great, but not bad either. I much prefer JR6 on the Shadow. But, I've been playing with the idea of running an all light mech hangar with maybe only one CB12 Panther as my clutch mech. I'd only do this after I run out of things to upgrade of course and it would only be for fun.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 11, 2021 14:31:38 GMT -5
Yeah, in a contest between MR6 and RPG6, the RPG6 wins hands down for me too. I have run Shadow with RPG6 and found it ok. Not great, but not bad either. I much prefer JR6 on the Shadow. But, I've been playing with the idea of running an all light mech hangar with maybe only one CB12 Panther as my clutch mech. I'd only do this after I run out of things to upgrade of course and it would only be for fun. YES.
ATM I am running a Beacon Hangar that is also really good for today's Tourney map. Same idea for the "clutch" bot here! And while these aren't light mechs, the idea is speed and quick ambushes.
It's fun to be able to switch things up... I have never been one of those that focused on a few bots and weapons... not in War Robots and not in MA. But yeah, I throw the Lancer and MD in with the Shadow at least once a week for a few games to get my light bot fix. It's definitely fun for CPC. I have to change the way I play since it is so much less about pure damage than about beacons and flanking/ambushing. First couple of games always lack the OOMPH, but after that it starts to gel and it's fun as Hell. I usually keep 1 KS in, and then alternate between Panther, Guardian, and Zep for the 5th bot. If I had the Cheetah, I'd throw that in there, too.
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 11, 2021 19:11:11 GMT -5
Would dual PC6 be better than that PC8/TL4 build? I know on paper, the damage output should be close but the TL series takes a while to fully reload. Plus, I'm also wondering if maybe RPG6 wouldn't be a better weapon for the Shadow? I did try PC6 very briefly on my Shadow way back when but didn't really like that I had to be exposed for so long. Sure, against AI it did alright, but good human players can pick off Shadows in Stealth pretty easily. R5 TL4 should be able to apply overheat with the ammo generated from it's "hard reload" of 3 seconds. It doesn't have to charge completely, just the 25-30 ish percent to inflict overheat. I'd say it's a personal preference. Since the key to playing light mechs is attacking the distracted or being the destraction, applying overheat is teamwork to make the dream work. Dual pulses (4+8 or 2x6) will deal slightly more damage per full magazine, BUT, applying overheat makes peak-shooting more viable, and softens them up to force a lose lose on the opponent's part. They can't ignore you, because they'll get melted if they leave you at their 「bum-bum」. But they can't commit to chasing you either, because chances are, something with even more firepower is ready to 3-4x damage their flank. To give you an example, I'm at the point in the MM where MR8 juggernaut AI are the bane of my existence. Chewing through them with MR8 or Pulse 8 Juggy is time consuming and really slowed down my K/D in the CQC tournament map. The solution? TL+Stasis Paragon. I may not be killing them directly most of the time, but making sure they take the most damage possible from all sources is the only way to get them off of the field with any expediency. |
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Post by scape211 on Jun 15, 2021 10:41:47 GMT -5
I enjoy this kind of discussion and tbh its where I have sat for a while with the Carb8 and PC8 discussion. I know some still dont agree with my assessment for the PC8 being a little better in my comparison, but I still think it plays out better overall. I know it takes longer to use its clip, but how it actually plays where you can keep a greater distance and deal optimal range more often while staying out of typical damage zones is key. The only difference to me is when the mech prefers that close range (zephyr with dual carb8 > PC8 generally). But PC8s allow you to dictate typical encounters more often. You can keep distance from killshots and zephyrs while generally maintaining more damage and move in on smaller mechs with javs while still keeping optimal damage.
Kind of off topic (but not), some assessments I still wonder if I make the right call though. For EG - I have found a lot more uses for RPG6s end game than I have mr6s. On paper and in certain execution the mr6 wins, but the more and more I play the 2, the more I reach for RPG6s. Guess I cant get em all right lol.
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Post by punishingcossack on Jun 15, 2021 12:29:13 GMT -5
I enjoy this kind of discussion and tbh its where I have sat for a while with the Carb8 and PC8 discussion. I know some still dont agree with my assessment for the PC8 being a little better in my comparison, but I still think it plays out better overall. I know it takes longer to use its clip, but how it actually plays where you can keep a greater distance and deal optimal range more often while staying out of typical damage zones is key. The only difference to me is when the mech prefers that close range (zephyr with dual carb8 > PC8 generally). But PC8s allow you to dictate typical encounters more often. You can keep distance from killshots and zephyrs while generally maintaining more damage and move in on smaller mechs with javs while still keeping optimal damage. Kind of off topic (but not), some assessments I still wonder if I make the right call though. For EG - I have found a lot more uses for RPG6s end game than I have mr6s. On paper and in certain execution the mr6 wins, but the more and more I play the 2, the more I reach for RPG6s. Guess I cant get em all right lol. there are two areas where I think the carbs are better than the pulse, and that's in squad battles, especially against the best clans. faster clip emptying is crucial. the second is in tourney when every second counts |
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 15, 2021 12:52:38 GMT -5
I enjoy this kind of discussion and tbh its where I have sat for a while with the Carb8 and PC8 discussion. I know some still dont agree with my assessment for the PC8 being a little better in my comparison, but I still think it plays out better overall. I know it takes longer to use its clip, but how it actually plays where you can keep a greater distance and deal optimal range more often while staying out of typical damage zones is key. The only difference to me is when the mech prefers that close range (zephyr with dual carb8 > PC8 generally). But PC8s allow you to dictate typical encounters more often. You can keep distance from killshots and zephyrs while generally maintaining more damage and move in on smaller mechs with javs while still keeping optimal damage. Kind of off topic (but not), some assessments I still wonder if I make the right call though. For EG - I have found a lot more uses for RPG6s end game than I have mr6s. On paper and in certain execution the mr6 wins, but the more and more I play the 2, the more I reach for RPG6s. Guess I cant get em all right lol. I agree with you on the RPG6 vs MR6 comparison. I haven't leveled either to R5 yet so I'm not using them end game, but I've found the RPG6 to be far more useful than the MR6. The slightly faster projectile speed on the RPG6 lets it be more useful at further ranges, and the fact that it doesn't have alpha strike means I can stop shooting if my first shot doesn't hit and realign as needed before firing again. The slight extra damage the MR6 is offset by how many missiles miss and how few actually hit when strafing or when not shooting straight on. |
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Post by scape211 on Jun 15, 2021 13:46:34 GMT -5
there are two areas where I think the carbs are better than the pulse, and that's in squad battles, especially against the best clans. faster clip emptying is crucial. the second is in tourney when every second counts I think it depends on how you are using them. For certain mechs (and in that sense; certain situations) carb8s rule here. Things that want to get up close and can close that gap fast or control it like killshots, zephyrs, and guardians (although guardian more so prefers the dual carb12s of course). But some encounters are better when you keep the distance and chew them up. Ive found PC8s better for the tanky guys since they cant get to targets for optimal range as fast and can be at a disadvantage against the type of mechs I mentioned who want to get in close. So the extra range benefits them more. It all depends on playstyle, the build in question, and the map/battlefield situation. I can see the value in both and its always a close race. So many times it comes down to preference. I think what swayed my decision was that the carb8s even though situationally better at times isnt always best and since it costs quite a bit more, I think people can skip it or save it for later most times. tbh, I use both less and less these days. I find my 8 slot is filled more often by LA8s and MR8s if anything. |
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 15, 2021 21:33:09 GMT -5
I enjoy this kind of discussion and tbh its where I have sat for a while with the Carb8 and PC8 discussion. I know some still dont agree with my assessment for the PC8 being a little better in my comparison, but I still think it plays out better overall. I know it takes longer to use its clip, but how it actually plays where you can keep a greater distance and deal optimal range more often while staying out of typical damage zones is key. The only difference to me is when the mech prefers that close range (zephyr with dual carb8 > PC8 generally). But PC8s allow you to dictate typical encounters more often. You can keep distance from killshots and zephyrs while generally maintaining more damage and move in on smaller mechs with javs while still keeping optimal damage. Kind of off topic (but not), some assessments I still wonder if I make the right call though. For EG - I have found a lot more uses for RPG6s end game than I have mr6s. On paper and in certain execution the mr6 wins, but the more and more I play the 2, the more I reach for RPG6s. Guess I cant get em all right lol. At 30-60M The pulse 8 beats Carbines out by quite a bit. The "faster firing" of the entire magazine of Carbs is irrelevant when 6 seconds of Pulse( Carbine's firing time) still does more damage at that 30+ M range than the full magazine of carbines. 6.7 Pulse 8: 348 per pellet without modifiers, 31,320 per magazine ( 90: 9 seconds) 6 second firing time = 60 pellets : 20,880 With critical hits and the optimal range modifier doubling pellet damage at any range: 30-60M guarantees 41,760m in 6 seconds. Carb still does it's base damage for the entire magazine over 30M, which is only 26,800 Carb 8 Arc 10 Zephyr/ Surge would probably be my recommendations for using carb 8 over Pulse 8. For the Tanks, Pulse 8 + Carb 10 is the better performing bullet setup overall. Killshot is the only medium where MR8+ Carb/Arc 10 makes sense because it needs the burst. MR6 falls behind because it takes longer to unload than MR8, even with less rockets. The slower time to empty puts it between the 1.8 second unload of MR8 and the 3.5 second unload of all of the RPGs. The projectile speed of RPG's makes them more consistent by a long shot. The only maps I can see MR6 beating out RPG6 are on maps like the current tournament map (High Bridge) where there's cover everywhere. Even then, Zephyr takes the shine away from whatever would be using MR6/RPG6 because of the stun. |
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Post by Koalabear on Jun 16, 2021 7:45:24 GMT -5
The projectiles from the pulse cannons also travel a lot faster so if you have it ranked up to get the extra accuracy, then the PC8 should hit more often further out. Plus, like how the alpha strike on the MR6 makes it a liability at further ranges when compared to the RPG6, the burst fire of the CB8 means that a miss hurts you more as that's 5 projectiles that didn't hit, whereas the single projectile firing of the pulse cannons means a miss is a miss with only one projectile.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jun 16, 2021 11:55:52 GMT -5
Just a general "I agree" to the sentiment that tanks do better with PC 8s than Carbs, for the most part.
I still throw both my Jug and my Ares in at different times, and the PC 8 just works well on Mechs that can take a few hits while keeping a bit of distance.
Granted, with RGs in the picture, especially on Thanos builds due to the Overheat, even a small amount of exposure can ruin a high level Tank's day... but for most encounters I would rather run the PC 8s than Carb 8s or even the Carb 10 + 8 build, strictly due to the firing behavior and higher ranged accuracy of the PC 8s.
That said, on the flip side, Carb 12 + TL 6 is effective as Hell on a Tank when you want to get close... so is the Arc 10 with whatever you want to use out of the normal secondary weapon options. That's a whole other post though...
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Post by OU812? on Jun 16, 2021 12:31:11 GMT -5
Just a general "I agree" to the sentiment that tanks do better with PC 8s than Carbs, for the most part. I still throw both my Jug and my Ares in at different times, and the PC 8 just works well on Mechs that can take a few hits while keeping a bit of distance. Granted, with RGs in the picture, especially on Thanos builds due to the Overheat, even a small amount of exposure can ruin a high level Tank's day... but for most encounters I would rather run the PC 8s than Carb 8s or even the Carb 10 + 8 build, strictly due to the firing behavior and higher ranged accuracy of the PC 8s. That said, on the flip side, Carb 12 + TL 6 is effective as Hell on a Tank when you want to get close... so is the Arc 10 with whatever you want to use out of the normal secondary weapon options. That's a whole other post though... I agree with the effectiveness of PC8s on tanks. Before acquiring MR8s a PC8 armed Ares was a solid build for me, even in tourney. I often looked for red AI tea parties and practiced a sort of spray and pray from a distance or at least behind my shield. It was surprising how well it did on certain maps and situations. Playing opportunistically was effective. |
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Post by Redfiend on Jun 18, 2021 13:11:24 GMT -5
Replying to this to correct the OP.
Pulse cannons don't deal double damage, instead, it seems the Numbers displayed have a hard limit to how many are displayed at a time.
The double damage of Pulse Cannons is actually due to each visible number counting two bullets.
To test this I went into a private match with an AI.
10 bullets only showed 5 numbers.
I had to double check after getting Carb 10. With 600rpm(10/second) only 5 numbers pop up.
With a burst from Carbine 10, which fires at 500rpm, only 3 numbers are displayed per burst, 2 individual bullet damage numbers and the last 3 lumped together as a single value.
Example: 485 per pellet. Numbers displayed:
-485, 485, 1.4K
It doesn't change that Pulse 8 greatly outperforms Carbine 8 30M-60M, as Carbines lose a lot of damage outside of their 30M range.
The mistake was not considering the limits of the damage display. Weapons can fire up to 10 bullets per second, but it seems the limit the damage display can actually display is 5 numbers per second.
With the limit of 5 damage numbers per second, that's a single damage value every .2 seconds.
Carbs fire at 500RPM (listed 100rpm x 5 round bursts), meaning each burst takes 0.6 seconds. That being said, it's *why* the carb burst displays 485, 485, 1.4K and why Pulse numbers read as double the bullet damage.
Carb: Damage per pellet: 485, 500RPM
0.2: 485
0.4: 485
0.6: 3 of the bullet damage values haven't been displayed, so they are all lumped together for 1.4K
Pulse: Damage per pellet: 235, 600RPM
0.2 : 235
0.4 : 470
0.6 : 470
0.8 : 470
1.0 : Since the first shot registered only 235, there are 3 bullets that damage display hasn't shown, bringing the visible value at 1 full second to 710.
6 seconds of Pulse shots is still 20,880, but that is still more than what the carbs deal above 30M.
6 seconds of Pulse fire is still less than Carb 8 by 6k, BUT, it beats out Carb by 6K with a full magazine, and doesn't suffer damage falloff from further enough out to deal it's true damage more often overall.
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Post by reconnecting on Jun 20, 2021 12:55:26 GMT -5
Just a general "I agree" to the sentiment that tanks do better with PC 8s than Carbs, for the most part. I still throw both my Jug and my Ares in at different times, and the PC 8 just works well on Mechs that can take a few hits while keeping a bit of distance. Granted, with RGs in the picture, especially on Thanos builds due to the Overheat, even a small amount of exposure can ruin a high level Tank's day... but for most encounters I would rather run the PC 8s than Carb 8s or even the Carb 10 + 8 build, strictly due to the firing behavior and higher ranged accuracy of the PC 8s. That said, on the flip side, Carb 12 + TL 6 is effective as Hell on a Tank when you want to get close... so is the Arc 10 with whatever you want to use out of the normal secondary weapon options. That's a whole other post though... I agree with the effectiveness of PC8s on tanks. Before acquiring MR8s a PC8 armed Ares was a solid build for me, even in tourney. I often looked for red AI tea parties and practiced a sort of spray and pray from a distance or at least behind my shield. It was surprising how well it did on certain maps and situations. Playing opportunistically was effective. Because of this thread I invested my saved A-coins and credits into my PC8s and some into TL6. My Jugg does a lot better with them now, getting more kills with the higher damage and better accuracy. Plus I added the new Fire light skin.  One Panther also has a PC8 with Carbine 12, A good combo.   |
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Post by scape211 on Jul 1, 2021 8:08:38 GMT -5
The double damage of Pulse Cannons is actually due to each visible number counting two bullets. To test this I went into a private match with an AI. 10 bullets only showed 5 numbers. THIS. I cannot tell you frustrating this is. I remember having a discussion with quite a few people about DPS and TTK and why DPS generally trumps it. However, since this game doesnt easily let us get an ideal numbers based on what it can display, I have a tough time getting DPS ratings that are accurate. This mostly comes into play with crit hits (double damage). Its sometimes impossible to tell when you are seeing 2 bullets stack with fast firing weapons or when you are actually getting a crit. And Carbs are the worst for this. Fire bullets stacked on top of each other and only one tick of 1.4k shown.....good luck trying to figure out if any bullet crit or what each one does individually. Hence why I went more so the route of the written damage values, entire clip damage, how long it takes to use the full mag and reload. Gave me a better stack of data to work with than trying to figure in crit and stuff. But tbh, I'm not a great number cruncher when it comes to this. I get some good general data, but I cant handle the nitty-gritty. |
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One Panther also has a PC8 with Carbine 12, A good combo.