MA: Weapon observations
Jul 1, 2021 10:00:01 GMT -5
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ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48, scape211, and 1 more like this
Post by Redfiend on Jul 1, 2021 10:00:01 GMT -5
The double damage of Pulse Cannons is actually due to each visible number counting two bullets.
To test this I went into a private match with an AI.
10 bullets only showed 5 numbers.
I cannot tell you frustrating this is. I remember having a discussion with quite a few people about DPS and TTK and why DPS generally trumps it. However, since this game doesnt easily let us get an ideal numbers based on what it can display, I have a tough time getting DPS ratings that are accurate. This mostly comes into play with crit hits (double damage). Its sometimes impossible to tell when you are seeing 2 bullets stack with fast firing weapons or when you are actually getting a crit. And Carbs are the worst for this. Fire bullets stacked on top of each other and only one tick of 1.4k shown.....good luck trying to figure out if any bullet crit or what each one does individually. Hence why I went more so the route of the written damage values, entire clip damage, how long it takes to use the full mag and reload. Gave me a better stack of data to work with than trying to figure in crit and stuff. But tbh, I'm not a great number cruncher when it comes to this. I get some good general data, but I cant handle the nitty-gritty.
The damage display seems to run on server "ticks" instead of actual time. Server ticks are basically a time system that operates in 10's instead of normal seconds. Most netcode operates on a system like that in one way or another.
Going by the hit registration, there are 5 ticks a second. To explain why such a thing makes sense in code, a minute is 300 ticks, making any code concerning time divisible by 10, 5, and 3 for calculations.
The only weapons that critical hit are Javelins and Railgun. What "critical" damage is for any other weapon, is actually caused by the flanking multiplier, which is +50% to damage taken when hit in the sides, and +100% damage taken when hit in the rear.
Long arms have negative scaling that functions in reverse to the other weapons with a lower optimal range than their maximum range.
As an example, Pulse cannons have an optimal range of 60m, and a max range of 105m.
At 60M and below, the projectile is dealing it's printed damage.
Above 60M, the damage of each projectile is scaled down until the maximum of 105M.
Long arm however, has a max range of 180M and an optimal of 105M.
At 105+ it is dealing it's printed damage.
Below 105M, it's damage scales down the way Pulse scales up. The dropoff isn't noticeable until around 70M, where the reduction takes off a few hundred damage, becoming visible because the damage indicator is x.xK.
For higher damage numbers than printed per particle: the number displayed is the damage dealt in that server tick.
So, for weapons that fire at a rate of 300RMP or higher, the projectiles damage indicator showing extra damage is just the damage of the projectiles that hit in a single server tick.
For examples I've noticed:
That's why Plasma and the Stasis beams(300RPM) can show the occasional double damage per number displayed. 2 pips/projectiles hit in the same server tick(0.2 seconds), so it displays x2 damage, even though the DPS is true to the printed value(at optimal range).
This is why Javelins can look like a projectile "misses", for Jav 4, 3 numbers are displayed even though 4 missiles were fired. Two missiles are lumped together in one of the numbers. For javelin 6 fires 6 missiles, so the same thing happens, where one or two pairs of missiles are registered as a single damage value.
Pulse cannons, and Autocannons hit all of their projectiles at their optimal range, where their cone of fire and damage scaling beyond their optimal range is what makes their numbers seem pathetic when further out. Because they fire at 600RPM, two pellets hit in a single server tick, causing the displayed damage to be double the printed damage.
Thermal lance also fired at 600RPM, but since it's a laser, it's numbers beyond it's 60M optimal range are 2x pip damage per number displayed with scaling applied.
Overheat causes 50% more damage, which is why it's displayed numbers are considerably larger at optimal range once overheat procs.
Carbines fire at 500RPM, but much like Javelins, the projectiles it fires in burst do not come out simultaneously. The last 3 bullets in the 5 round burst are closer together than the first 2 bullets of the burst. This means the individual numbers of the first 2 bullets are the damage each pellet is dealing, while the last "chunk" number is just the combination of the projectiles grouped tighter together.
Tl:DR
-Only Javelins and Railgun crit, nothing else.
-"Critical" hits for other weapons are actually hitting the sweet spot of side flanks for 50% bonus damage.
-Long arms and Thermal lance get overheat modifiers, which ups their damage by 50% when proc'd.
-500 and 600 RPM weapons display up to 3 bullets per damage number displayed, depending on server ticks.
-300 RPM weapons usually show their individual pip/pellet damage per damage number displayed, BUT sometimes two pips/pellets hit in a single server tick, causing the number displayed to be double.
-Optimal range for weapons with lower optimal range than their max range ONLY deal their listed damage unless they hit flanks or the overheat modifier is applied.
-Long Arm range scaling works in reverse to the prior point's statement on scaling, bottoming out at around half damage at 30M and below.
As for DPS vs TTK:
Different weapons fill different niches. The devs have done an excellent job of actually balancing the weapons.
Weapons with low active cycle time are punishable if they miss, and suffer from "overkill", where their low projectile count and high damage causes them to waste damage in many situations when killing an enemy mech.
Weapons with high active cycle time can spread their damage around more effectively, leading to less waste.
High DPS weapons deal high burst damage in the active part of their cycle time, but they are weighed down by long reloads, making them punishable once they're empty.
Missile Racks, Railgun, Mortars, Javelins and Long Arms inflict massive damage in a short amount of time. However Missile Racks can only get off 5 salvos in a minute, Railgun can only fire 7 shots in a minute when firing as often as possible.
Mortars have ridiculous damage potential, but they are tricky to aim and can only fire 4 salvos in a minute.
Weapons with a long active time in their cycle have shorter reloads, more action time, and less wasted damage. Thermal Lance, Autocannons, and Pulse cannons have very shortdowntime, while dealing about the same damage per minute(Thermal lance supplementing the non TL with 50% more damage makes this equally true for it).
Weapons that tend to fall in the middle have caveats. Carbines, Plasmas, and shotguns have restricting range or optimal range.
Arc Torrent regenerates 33% of it's ammo while firing for it's initial 5 seconds (25 rounds, 300RPM, 15s reload to full), adding another 8 ammo(1.6 seconds of fire time), and regenerates another 3 ammo in that time(.6 seconds of fire time) bringing it's total magazine duration to 7.2 seconds. So, at optimal range, firing to empty is actually 40% more than it's listed magazine damage.
Stasis beam does the same thing.
It's base fire time to empty by it's magazine count (50 ammo, 300RPM) is 10 seconds.
With a reload of 20 seconds, it's auto reloaded 50% of it's magazine in those 10 seconds, increasing it's fire time by 5 seconds.
In those 5 seconds it's regenerated another 25% of it's total magazine, increasing it's fire time again by 2.5 seconds.
In that additional fire time, 12.5% of the magazine was regenerated, adding 1.25 seconds.
It's total fire time, when just laying on the fire button, is almost a full 20 seconds. The magazine damage lists only 10 seconds of fire. With only a 3 second "hard reload" on empty.
Given this information:
A max stasis 16 has a DPM of 108,000 in optimal range.
A max Railgun has a DPM of about 114K without factoring in critical hits(proc % is listed).
A max Pulse 8 has a DPM of about 105K, it will be mid magazine at the 60 second mark.
A max MR8 has a DPM of 107K.
The differences in the damage profiles in terms of actual performance lie in how much damage is wasted with weapons that deal high damage per projectile, versus how little damage is wasted with sustained fire weapons. For example, if you hit a mech that only has 5K health left, with a projectile that does 18K per shot(railgun), you've just reduced your DPM by 13K.
Hope this helps.