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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 8, 2020 3:46:10 GMT -5
  I have been running shotgun Shadow the past hour; mine are currently R3L5, and I find them quite nasty. |
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Post by ᥣᵃᵛᵃʲᵃᵛᵃ on Oct 8, 2020 6:39:32 GMT -5
I hope this is true - I've been wavering on what to deck the Shadow out with and shotties sound perfect if they have been buffed.
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 8, 2020 7:31:48 GMT -5
Shotguns only come in 2 and 4 EN flavours right? I remember trying them out very very briefly and hated them. I don't have the resources to level mine up for a trial run, so I'm looking forward to more updates on this.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 8, 2020 8:04:04 GMT -5
I threw mine on my Shadow JIC... will run a game or two over lunch (or earlier  ) if I get the chance... and report back to you fine people. |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Oct 8, 2020 11:39:03 GMT -5
This is live now? Gotta give em a try!
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Post by Munki on Oct 8, 2020 11:49:47 GMT -5
Yeah, waiting on other's testing results. Do not have either shotgun presently but do have the a $0.99 deal on the Shotgun 2 that expires in a few hours. I'm thinking only the Shotgun 4 would be worth having though. Willing to hear arguments for the Shotgun 2.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 8, 2020 12:08:09 GMT -5
This is live now? Gotta give em a try! KSO King Servesh confirmed to me this changes are live now. He said that before this the shotguns had a more precise hit cone like Longarms, but this change back to earlier shotgun mechanics has them perform more like mortars hitting multiple targets. He said they’re good for beginners but not recommended in higher leagues. I am in the 2000+ D1 currently and find the shotgun Shadow really deadly. You gotta be very tactical on ambushing opponents, and carefully use gradual degradation against tougher opponents like Juggs |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 8, 2020 12:27:37 GMT -5
2 Games, and I agree with Ogre... there is a definite increase in usability but these are NOT OP. If using Shadow... in and out is the key. You can kill light mechs and Paras and the like, usually, with no issues. 2 or 3 if they are bunched up.
Jugs, however, require either another Blue or multiple runs.
So... better? Yes. If you like the style of play, they seem to be usable in, and at least up to, Expert Tourney. I have not played them in CP. I intend to, tonight, if I get to play since I have a control point with Shadow task to complete. Will update then.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 8, 2020 12:46:28 GMT -5
ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48Ambush style highly recommended for sure, especially you need to be more careful about overextending when you start facing mechs in the 1000-2000 rating and rely more on gradual degradation against tough mechs like Juggs. Against Juggs and Ares it is advisable to either: 1. wait for shield shutdown, or 2. use the shotguns to take down the shield if allies are also firing at the same target as you As for dealing with Killshot, advisable to either flank attack them or move in quickly directly after they dashed. Once I get further up the tourney circuit this round, I will report on shotgun performance when facing mostly 2000+ opponents
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Post by Deadeye on Oct 8, 2020 13:01:34 GMT -5
This sounds fun, but niche. All my CPC games are literally me (1500 squad rank) vs AI with 2300-2700 hangers. If I fart in the wrong direction, I'm dead (hell, if I fart at all it usually gives my position away and I get mortared). This sounds like a fun diversion when my dream hanger is complete. Ah, the dream hanger...  |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 8, 2020 13:14:27 GMT -5
This sounds fun, but niche. All my CPC games are literally me (1500 squad rank) vs AI with 2300-2700 hangers. If I fart in the wrong direction, I'm dead (hell, if I fart at all it usually gives my position away and I get mortared). This sounds like a fun diversion when my dream hanger is complete. Ah, the dream hanger... Yeah I don't expect my excursion into the CP games to go nearly as well... I face pretty hefty competition even if I am only in Div 4... maybe due to my Tourney win rate or hangar power or something... I don't know since I haven't been paying attention to CP games with Tourney being all I have time for.
Anyway, I am definitely not convinced yet. I can say that I think they are better than they were and have been removed from the useless pile... for now.
Very curious if a maxed set on a maxed Lancer or Shadow would fare well up in the end game levels... the extra range from Ranking them up may make up for their weaknesses in some cases.
In regards to being RM food... I think if you continually move when not Stealthed, and never stay in the vicinity of where you started the Stealth timer, it might mitigate the danger posed by them... IDK though... haven't tested.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 8, 2020 13:27:57 GMT -5
This sounds fun, but niche. All my CPC games are literally me (1500 squad rank) vs AI with 2300-2700 hangers. If I fart in the wrong direction, I'm dead (hell, if I fart at all it usually gives my position away and I get mortared). This sounds like a fun diversion when my dream hanger is complete. Ah, the dream hanger... Yeah I don't expect my excursion into the CP games to go nearly as well... I face pretty hefty competition even if I am only in Div 4... maybe due to my Tourney win rate or hangar power or something... I don't know since I haven't been paying attention to CP games with Tourney being all I have time for.
Anyway, I am definitely not convinced yet. I can say that I think they are better than they were and have been removed from the useless pile... for now.
Very curious if a maxed set on a maxed Lancer or Shadow would fare well up in the end game levels... the extra range from Ranking them up may make up for their weaknesses in some cases.
In regards to being RM food... I think if you continually move when not Stealthed, and never stay in the vicinity of where you started the Stealth timer, it might mitigate the danger posed by them... IDK though... haven't tested.
I will max the shotguns and my Shadow and let you know. I don’t regard it as a distraction from a dream hangar, because I see these as part of my dream hangar. I’ve watched video on shotgun shadow and now i have played it a bunch and it really fits how i have wanted to play Shadow. I will be playing this game for a long time so I’m not in a rush to get the carbine/rg. They’ll appear at some point. In the meantime I can help here by giving a performance report on this particular content, mkayy |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Oct 8, 2020 13:35:38 GMT -5
This sounds fun, but niche. All my CPC games are literally me (1500 squad rank) vs AI with 2300-2700 hangers. If I fart in the wrong direction, I'm dead (hell, if I fart at all it usually gives my position away and I get mortared). This sounds like a fun diversion when my dream hanger is complete. Ah, the dream hanger... Yeah I don't expect my excursion into the CP games to go nearly as well... I face pretty hefty competition even if I am only in Div 4... maybe due to my Tourney win rate or hangar power or something... I don't know since I haven't been paying attention to CP games with Tourney being all I have time for.
Anyway, I am definitely not convinced yet. I can say that I think they are better than they were and have been removed from the useless pile... for now.
Very curious if a maxed set on a maxed Lancer or Shadow would fare well up in the end game levels... the extra range from Ranking them up may make up for their weaknesses in some cases.
In regards to being RM food... I think if you continually move when not Stealthed, and never stay in the vicinity of where you started the Stealth timer, it might mitigate the danger posed by them... IDK though... haven't tested.
Actually, I’m thinking they’d be better in CP games than TDM, where you’re more likely to get into CQC around the beacons. Conversely, I’m a little more hesitant to try them in TDM. But I’m giving mine another try, and so far I can tell there’s a difference. Slapped em on Lancer, because it can run in, unload a clip, and jump away from (or over) the target while reloading, plus it’s got a bucket load of health for a ‘light’ mech (and I don’t have a Shadow). Tried it a few times and was able to kill most mechs I came up against in two or three clips, as long as I could stay alive that long. Juggs are particularly difficult, as you would expect. Very different dynamic from any of the other weapons, which is always a good thing. Mine are only 2.6, so I really need to crank them up a bit to give them a fair assessment. My only wish is that they had a slightly faster firing rate. |
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 8, 2020 13:59:31 GMT -5
They deal only slightly less damage per magazine at level than the Missile Rack 6.
I guess the biggest difference between them and MR6 now is that there's almost no chance to miss as long as you're aiming in the enemy's general direction.
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 8, 2020 14:05:00 GMT -5
Looks like on paper, the SG4 have similar damage to RPG6, so I guess it could be a good weapon for a light mech. IDK, still not convinced enough to throw precious resources at it. I'm resource poor again, so I'm gonna wait and see. I did play it for a couple of games and it IS better than before, but still NMCOT.
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 8, 2020 14:34:46 GMT -5
Looks like on paper, the SG4 have similar damage to RPG6, so I guess it could be a good weapon for a light mech. IDK, still not convinced enough to throw precious resources at it. I'm resource poor again, so I'm gonna wait and see. I did play it for a couple of games and it IS better than before, but still NMCOT. Since I'm in no rush, I brought my SG4 to rank 3. It's a step up from RPGs 4 on my Shadow, by a lot actually. The hit angle means there's no missing while dancing, and I was actually able to whittle down a few R4 Juggernauts/Killshots with it instead of being completely ineffectual against them. Plasma cannons got a ninja buff to their projectile speed/RoF as well. |
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 8, 2020 21:49:40 GMT -5
OGRE REPORT OCT 8 2020: Shotgun 4
My shotguns are currently R3L6. In tourney top of the Expert bracket, I am encountering a lot of opponents 1600+, and in QM they are mostly 2000+. Targets with 1300+ are tougher to do any devastating work on. In general, en4 shotguns are for lower rank gameplay with softer opponents. However, this does not mean they cannot function in higher ranked combat, so here is my position on it -
I prefer a higher degree of difficulty, but since the shotgun 4 has insufficient power to take on full health higher ranked targets, the shotgun 4 Shadow should be considered very niche in such combat. By that I mean that the main role of this load out will be to take on targets with weakened hp, or to take down energy shields for allies. I plan to still bring these to R5 for this type of ambush. Some of you may not prefer this type of challenge, or the gradual degradation of an opponent as opposed to quick kills. In that case I cannot recommend the upgrading of the shotgun 4 past R3, because they perform just fine at this level against lower ranked targets. In fact, I would say the time to enjoy high damage output of these against lower ranked targets is during the early period of a tourney when targets are ranked in the triple digits.
Maybe they’ll make an en 6+ shotgun
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 8, 2020 23:45:59 GMT -5
OGRE REPORT OCT 8 2020: Shotgun 4 My shotguns are currently R3L6. In tourney top of the Expert bracket, I am encountering a lot of opponents 1600+, and in QM they are mostly 2000+. Targets with 1300+ are tougher to do any devastating work on. In general, en4 shotguns are for lower rank gameplay with softer opponents. However, this does not mean they cannot function in higher ranked combat, so here is my position on it - I prefer a higher degree of difficulty, but since the shotgun 4 has insufficient power to take on full health higher ranked targets, the shotgun 4 Shadow should be considered very niche in such combat. By that I mean that the main role of this load out will be to take on targets with weakened hp, or to take down energy shields for allies. I plan to still bring these to R5 for this type of ambush. Some of you may not prefer this type of challenge, or the gradual degradation of an opponent as opposed to quick kills. In that case I cannot recommend the upgrading of the shotgun 4 past R3, because they perform just fine at this level against lower ranked targets. In fact, I would say the time to enjoy high damage output of these against lower ranked targets is during the early period of a tourney when targets are ranked in the triple digits. Maybe they’ll make an en 6+ shotgun They're technically a side-grade to MR6 on Shadow since they pretty much can't miss in their current form. They do one thing better than pretty much every other weapon in the game too: kill other Shadows. MR6: 13 second cycle: 2 second unload, 10 second reload. 16,200 max cycle damage. Shotgun4: 13 second cycle: 6.25 unload, 6.8 reload. 16,005 max cycle damage. |
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 9, 2020 0:14:03 GMT -5
RedfiendDespite relatively similar stats, there’s quite a difference between the range options for those two weapons. MR6 can hit from 0-150m, and this gives a significant advantage as far as combat longevity goes. To really be effective, you gotta get the shotguns closer than 33m, optimal range being 0-16m means you are more exposed to retaliation. Hence my recommendation for ambush especially on mechs with low hp
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 9, 2020 0:41:00 GMT -5
Projectile speed tends to make the range advantage moot because rockets travel slow as molasses.In terms of close range reliability, having the huge accuracy cone is a game changer.
I'd say the choice between MR6, RPG6 and Shotguns is what ranges you really expect to be constantly engaged at.
0-30M: Shotgun(though I think it's just under 40 when at it's full bonus)
0-50M: MR6. Unless you're certain something is going to pop out where you expect your rockets will be at ranges higher than that, there's plenty of time for most bots to dodge most of the salvo beyond that range.
0-100: RPG6. The projectile speed from rank ups keeps them more reliable from point blank to their max range.
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Post by mechtout on Oct 9, 2020 0:46:25 GMT -5
Flash back to thunder carnage heyday!! time to get me some shotguns
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 9, 2020 8:54:40 GMT -5
Ok, so do the shotguns perform like their War Robots counterparts? Like unless you're "close enough to see the enemy pilot pick his nose" range, they only do partial damage? So the paper damage comparison to MR6 and RPG6 doesn't really count?
I found the hard way that there are clear advantages to getting that close. Today, I found out that my PC8 and MR8 couldn't track and hit reliably an opponent who got that close to me. This ended in a 50/50 chance of me winning the engagement - unless it was a PC8 KS, in which case, I invariably lost because when it dashed in that close and that fast, it knocked my camera off kilter too or maybe it dashed in under my guns? Either way, I got toasted in my fancy smancy R4 Jugg.
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 9, 2020 9:29:04 GMT -5
Ok, so do the shotguns perform like their War Robots counterparts? Like unless you're "close enough to see the enemy pilot pick his nose" range, they only do partial damage? So the paper damage comparison to MR6 and RPG6 doesn't really count? I found the hard way that there are clear advantages to getting that close. Today, I found out that my PC8 and MR8 couldn't track and hit reliably an opponent who got that close to me. This ended in a 50/50 chance of me winning the engagement - unless it was a PC8 KS, in which case, I invariably lost because when it dashed in that close and that fast, it knocked my camera off kilter too or maybe it dashed in under my guns? Either way, I got toasted in my fancy smancy R4 Jugg. Their maximum range is only 30-39M depending on rank. They don't do any damage at longer ranges than that. Inside that range though they do 90% of their listed damage on glancing blows, 100% of listed damage on direct hits, and at point blank they can critical for 1.5x damage. Example: Listed:1.8k Max range:33M 33M-16M: 1.7k glancing, 1.8k on target. 16M and under: 1.8k glancing, or on target, 2.5k crit. The damage profiles matter, the intended ranges vary. Weapons don't soft track the close range. The ranges in this game compared to their War Robots counterpart is basically 50 MA meters to 300 War Robots meters. Missile racks perform best at 40-60M because of launching the entire salvo, projectile speed, and tracking. Unlike War Robots rockets, they don't just explode near the enemy. If they miss, they miss. Too close, can't hit diddly dancing across the screen. Too far, the enemy can see the rockets a mile away and just move. In either case, you just emptied the whole Pinata and can't do Jack diddly for 10 seconds. RPGs can time their shots, and travel faster. So they're more reliable up to their max range. Shotguns fill the point blank niche at the closer ranges these weapons will have a hard time with, much like Long Arm covers the longer distances these weapons would be bad at. Long arm has unique damage scaling, 40M and under it tends to deal only half of it's listed damage. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Oct 9, 2020 9:51:06 GMT -5
Ok, so do the shotguns perform like their War Robots counterparts? Like unless you're "close enough to see the enemy pilot pick his nose" range, they only do partial damage? So the paper damage comparison to MR6 and RPG6 doesn't really count? I found the hard way that there are clear advantages to getting that close. Today, I found out that my PC8 and MR8 couldn't track and hit reliably an opponent who got that close to me. This ended in a 50/50 chance of me winning the engagement - unless it was a PC8 KS, in which case, I invariably lost because when it dashed in that close and that fast, it knocked my camera off kilter too or maybe it dashed in under my guns? Either way, I got toasted in my fancy smancy R4 Jugg.That may also be mitigated by changing the control from vertical to horizontal... I have seen a vid where someone changed it depending on the weapon and it made me look into it. I think if you are running CQB weapons, the horizontal aiming would benefit more... haven't tested it yet but fully intend to.
Shotties? Horizontal
LAs? Vertical
Like I said, I want to test this out, maybe today if I get the chance.
I normally only use Vertical.
It would make CP games more formulaic for me, though, as I would try to drop gear at certain times in a way that would allow me to change that setting only once, or 2x at most. For instance... during early gameplay keep it on Horizontal and use CQB gear on beacon runners. Then, when it comes time to hold what we have, reassess and determine if LR will be better. If so, drop while a beacon isn't being contested into a LR bot and switch to Vertical. IDK if this would work... but it got my gears turning.
Thoughts, everyone?
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Post by Redfiend on Oct 9, 2020 10:32:01 GMT -5
Ok, so do the shotguns perform like their War Robots counterparts? Like unless you're "close enough to see the enemy pilot pick his nose" range, they only do partial damage? So the paper damage comparison to MR6 and RPG6 doesn't really count? I found the hard way that there are clear advantages to getting that close. Today, I found out that my PC8 and MR8 couldn't track and hit reliably an opponent who got that close to me. This ended in a 50/50 chance of me winning the engagement - unless it was a PC8 KS, in which case, I invariably lost because when it dashed in that close and that fast, it knocked my camera off kilter too or maybe it dashed in under my guns? Either way, I got toasted in my fancy smancy R4 Jugg.That may also be mitigated by changing the control from vertical to horizontal... I have seen a vid where someone changed it depending on the weapon and it made me look into it. I think if you are running CQB weapons, the horizontal aiming would benefit more... haven't tested it yet but fully intend to.
Shotties? Horizontal
LAs? Vertical
Like I said, I want to test this out, maybe today if I get the chance.
I normally only use Vertical.
It would make CP games more formulaic for me, though, as I would try to drop gear at certain times in a way that would allow me to change that setting only once, or 2x at most. For instance... during early gameplay keep it on Horizontal and use CQB gear on beacon runners. Then, when it comes time to hold what we have, reassess and determine if LR will be better. If so, drop while a beacon isn't being contested into a LR bot and switch to Vertical. IDK if this would work... but it got my gears turning.
Thoughts, everyone?
I dislike juggling settings mid match. It hurts consistency overall, and custom layouts are reset to default every time you change your aim assist type. The sensitivity settings also have dramatically different impacts on each targeting type, which is even more scales to tweak/variation of muscle memory consistency mid match. To put it in more conventional shooter terms, no one would ever consider learning to use a Sniper Rifle and an Assault Rifle on two completely different control schemes, sensitivity settings, and HUDS. |
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 9, 2020 10:38:05 GMT -5
I think that just changing your control on the fly. Not something I would want to do much if I'm in the heat of battle.
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Post by Deadeye on Oct 9, 2020 10:49:58 GMT -5
Ok, so do the shotguns perform like their War Robots counterparts? Like unless you're "close enough to see the enemy pilot pick his nose" range, they only do partial damage? So the paper damage comparison to MR6 and RPG6 doesn't really count? I found the hard way that there are clear advantages to getting that close. Today, I found out that my PC8 and MR8 couldn't track and hit reliably an opponent who got that close to me. This ended in a 50/50 chance of me winning the engagement - unless it was a PC8 KS, in which case, I invariably lost because when it dashed in that close and that fast, it knocked my camera off kilter too or maybe it dashed in under my guns? Either way, I got toasted in my fancy smancy R4 Jugg.That may also be mitigated by changing the control from vertical to horizontal... I have seen a vid where someone changed it depending on the weapon and it made me look into it. I think if you are running CQB weapons, the horizontal aiming would benefit more... haven't tested it yet but fully intend to.
Shotties? Horizontal
LAs? Vertical
Like I said, I want to test this out, maybe today if I get the chance.
I normally only use Vertical.
It would make CP games more formulaic for me, though, as I would try to drop gear at certain times in a way that would allow me to change that setting only once, or 2x at most. For instance... during early gameplay keep it on Horizontal and use CQB gear on beacon runners. Then, when it comes time to hold what we have, reassess and determine if LR will be better. If so, drop while a beacon isn't being contested into a LR bot and switch to Vertical. IDK if this would work... but it got my gears turning.
Thoughts, everyone?
I don't use vertical for a couple reasons. First and foremost, you can't lock a target. For an avid Jav user, this is a complete no-go. Second is that, despite the supposed better targeting from vertical with LAs, I've found that I can be extremely consistent and effective with just the horizontal aiming. Yes, sometimes it picks another nearby enemy, but I can compensate for this with a lock-on if need be. The vertical component is actually taken care of mostly for you. You just need to line up the horizontal aspect. This makes it very appealing to me actually. These things combined with what Redfiend said about switching settings (which I agree with) are why I've chosen to go with Horizontal. I won't be switching either. I've set my buttons and preferences and frequent changes, makes me less effective because it ruins my muscle memory. |
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Post by Koalabear on Oct 9, 2020 10:58:59 GMT -5
Deadeye, I'm a HUGE Jav6 user and I use vertical targeting. The lack of lock on can be annoying, but for me, it's one mech out of 5, and all my other builds rely on the vertical targeting assist. Plus, I like being able to look around and pick my own target instead of relying on the War Robots'esque targeting assist and letting the AI pick my target based on their proximity to my crosshairs. The lack of lock on is balanced by the ability to rapidly switch targets (which has its own cons but can be mitigated with experience). The Javs work like the Spiral/Hydra/Chimera family. If you rapidly switch targets, you don't have to relock on. This is very helpful when there's a lot of reds clustered together and I can pick and choose which one I want to unleash the rain on. As for the shotguns...I tried my SG4s on my Shadow for a few more games. I'm afraid it's a no go for me. I'm just not that good enough to get into PB range, even with a Shadow, and the SG4 at my level just didn't have the oomph I need. I did encounter a red Shadow in stealth and wiped the floor with him, but other than that it's a no for me. I'd rather invest my credits into mechs and weapons I would use on a normal basis. Still, I gotta admit, piloting the speedy Shadow again was fun as hell. Mine is about ready to be ranked up too (finally), but it's only going to get another 2 EN, so it's still not ready to replace one of my other mechs yet.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Oct 9, 2020 11:08:44 GMT -5
So far, even against a bit tougher opponents, I seem to be getting a consistent 5-10 kills with shotgun Shadow in tourney. It is a bit more tricky on larger qm maps, but overall I recommend steering clear of Juggernauts when possible, and try to hit Killshots post melee dash and ideally from flank or behind while they are distracted.
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Post by Deadeye on Oct 9, 2020 12:02:04 GMT -5
Deadeye , I'm a HUGE Jav6 user and I use vertical targeting. The lack of lock on can be annoying, but for me, it's one mech out of 5, and all my other builds rely on the vertical targeting assist. Plus, I like being able to look around and pick my own target instead of relying on the War Robots'esque targeting assist and letting the AI pick my target based on their proximity to my crosshairs. The lack of lock on is balanced by the ability to rapidly switch targets (which has its own cons but can be mitigated with experience). The Javs work like the Spiral/Hydra/Chimera family. If you rapidly switch targets, you don't have to relock on. This is very helpful when there's a lot of reds clustered together and I can pick and choose which one I want to unleash the rain on. As for the shotguns...I tried my SG4s on my Shadow for a few more games. I'm afraid it's a no go for me. I'm just not that good enough to get into PB range, even with a Shadow, and the SG4 at my level just didn't have the oomph I need. I did encounter a red Shadow in stealth and wiped the floor with him, but other than that it's a no for me. I'd rather invest my credits into mechs and weapons I would use on a normal basis. Still, I gotta admit, piloting the speedy Shadow again was fun as hell. Mine is about ready to be ranked up too (finally), but it's only going to get another 2 EN, so it's still not ready to replace one of my other mechs yet. Ultimately, it's great that we have options based on what we like which is super cool. Still, I tried the vertical with the Javs and I couldn't bend them like I needed to. I frequently bend the missiles around corners at crazy angles that wouldn't be possible if I didn't keep a lock. I rotate my torso to the maximum before I lose lock-on. No one is safe. Mwahahahah!  |
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) if I get the chance... and report back to you fine people.
