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Post by Browncoats4ever on Sept 30, 2020 9:18:37 GMT -5
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Post by spectre729 on Sept 30, 2020 9:36:06 GMT -5
so... if i am in master league with 4000ish points(idk the exact number) does that mean im back in expert league??? if so, i guess i'll be destroying people left and right in expert league with my scorpion then...(i was already doing very well in masters)
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Post by BlackGrouse on Sept 30, 2020 10:11:14 GMT -5
so... if i am in master league with 4000ish points(idk the exact number) does that mean im back in expert league??? if so, i guess i'll be destroying people left and right in expert league with my scorpion then...(i was already doing very well in masters) Yes that's correct. But please note you are not only one who goes to Expert. You will be seeing same players like before this, just league badge is different. Another story is those who are in lower leagues like Silver: now their MM is filled with "old" Diamond players. Right now Silver 3 starts from 1100, Diamond 3 from 2300. You can't go below 1000. |
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Post by spectre729 on Sept 30, 2020 10:38:06 GMT -5
so... if i am in master league with 4000ish points(idk the exact number) does that mean im back in expert league??? if so, i guess i'll be destroying people left and right in expert league with my scorpion then...(i was already doing very well in masters) Yes that's correct. But please note you are not only one who goes to Expert. You will be seeing same players like before this, just league badge is different. Another story is those who are in lower leagues like Silver: now their MM is filled with "old" Diamond players. Right now Silver 3 starts from 1100, Diamond 3 from 2300. You can't go below 1000. so everything is the same except that im getting less silver from the supply drop... |
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Sept 30, 2020 10:59:24 GMT -5
Yes that's correct. But please note you are not only one who goes to Expert. You will be seeing same players like before this, just league badge is different. Another story is those who are in lower leagues like Silver: now their MM is filled with "old" Diamond players. Right now Silver 3 starts from 1100, Diamond 3 from 2300. You can't go below 1000. so everything is the same except that im getting less silver from the supply drop... You got it! |
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msk10k
Destrier
Don't concern yourself with what I have done; rather tremble at the thought of what I am about to do
Posts: 28
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Pilot name: Meks10K
Platform: iOS
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Bulgasari
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Post by msk10k on Sept 30, 2020 11:07:44 GMT -5
My goodness....
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Sept 30, 2020 11:13:40 GMT -5
It still doesn't fix the disparity between high Champs and low Champs. For Champs, it really doesn't solve anything except dropping players below 6000 league points down to Masters League. Resetting everyone else in Champs to 5000 happens every month then they spread out from 5000 to 20,000 league points so you're still going to be pitted against vastly different levels of league points. They should have just further divided Champs into 9 different new leagues to reduce the risk of 5000 league point players being matched with 10-20,000 league point players and kept the same drop to 5000 and climb back up which the players with higher league points do anyway. The only time the low level Champs players would have to play the high level players would be at the beginning of the month as the high level players work their way back up.
But that would make too much sense. Let's just reduce the rewards for everyone below 6000 league points and keep Champs as catch all for anyone unlucky enough to pass 5000 league points so they can be cannon fodder until they pass 10,000 league points themselves.
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Post by spectre729 on Sept 30, 2020 11:40:41 GMT -5
so everything is the same except that im getting less silver from the supply drop... You got it!  |
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Post by Replicant on Sept 30, 2020 11:50:50 GMT -5
Its stuff like this that makes it so hard to give Pix the benefit of doubt... The net result of this change is a loss of 6 league points (the total awards sum to -12 plus an additional 6 points for high beacons/kills). This will create downward pressure on league scores, but only for Masters and Champions. IF the leagues had exclusive integrity (e.g. Diamond was only matched with Diamond), this would create a lot more mixing at the line between Expert and Master. The standard system would continue to push Experts up while the new awards would create a little less upward pressure.
Thing is, the leagues aren't exclusive and Champs are already mixed down into Expert (and sometimes Diamond). The slight change in league awards won't change the distribution of players. Where before the MM might team two Experts, three Masters and a Champion, it might now grab three Experts, two Masters and a Champion. The shift of one Master to an Expert is just a label. No meaningful change will have happened. Same hanger, same opponents. The only real change is the demoted Expert will no-longer get the Master Reward box.
Oh, and its now easier for Masters and Champs to tank down to Expert...
A little review:
The reset to 5,000 is not a new thing. Its constant and necessary. The basic structure of the League Point award system is inflationary (bottom 2-3 on the winner's side need a meaningful negative award to avoid this). Without a periodic league score reset, Champion scores ultimately inflate to arbitrarily large numbers. This is a problem because the MM looks at league score (not leagues) and tries to match near-scores. IF the MM can't find near-scores it relaxes the definition of what it considers "near." With a "very high" league score, a Champion will not be naturally matched with anyone until there's a match with an open slot and literally no one else to fill it. The resulting wait times for these Uber-Champions is measured in minutes. Since League score ultimately correlates with spending this is an untenable situation for Pixonic, ergo the reset and the absolute fustercluck it creates for Masters and Experts.
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Post by Garbage game on Sept 30, 2020 11:53:53 GMT -5
People tank because of the more lucrative Master Crate track. Winning 65 Cerebrus parts after grinding a Month for the Champ Chest is a 「fluffernutter」ing joke.
Once again Pixo completely misses the point
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Post by Loganspawn on Sept 30, 2020 12:03:07 GMT -5
I was thinking this is the guy at Pix in charge of this........  |
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Post by hi5 on Sept 30, 2020 13:07:35 GMT -5
People tank because of the more lucrative Master Crate track. Winning 65 Cerebrus parts after grinding a Month for the Champ Chest is a ?fluffernutter?ing joke. Once again Pixo completely misses the point Yeah, so did I miss the part where they say they’ll adjust the Champ battle rewards given players get fewer point now? Or did they just make it even more arduous to achieve and reset the ladder? Also, this just punts the disparity down to Expert where it will be much harder to climb the wall and stay in M. |
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Sept 30, 2020 13:20:55 GMT -5
-Deleted- I need to read better.
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Post by hi5 on Sept 30, 2020 14:46:01 GMT -5
I’m actually liking this, from a gameplay perspective. Played a few games and competition is much better, no more rando low level players and ignored beacons. Close games and I might actually drop out of Champs for the first time in . . . cant remember. I’m totally cool with that, but doubt it’s more than a dalliance.
Could just be like a league reset and all the (remaining) beasts are clustered now until there is separation. But I can hope!
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Post by BB on Sept 30, 2020 15:06:42 GMT -5
“OUR DATA CONFIRMED THAT THE ISSUE WAS SYSTEMATIC“  |
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Post by BB on Sept 30, 2020 15:12:34 GMT -5
Iâm actually liking this, from a gameplay perspective. Played a few games and competition is much better, no more rando low level players and ignored beacons. Close games and I might actually drop out of Champs for the first time in . . . cant remember. Iâm totally cool with that, but doubt itâs more than a dalliance. Could just be like a league reset and all the (remaining) beasts are clustered now until there is separation. But I can hope! I think Im with you, I just rolled a Rog session and caught some mad action with some really high leveled guys (names I haven't seen in awhile). My teammates surprisingly knew 「whiskey tango foxtrot」 they were doing it seems! Haven't had that much fun being smashed down to masters in a long time. is it possible that this latest mass exodus has prompted pix to ACTUALLY MOVE ON SOMETHING ? |
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Post by Poopface on Sept 30, 2020 15:55:30 GMT -5
I'm running into insane matches almost exclusively since the switch.
Maybe it'll eventually work out, but I have zero faith that Pixonic is being benevolent here. I suspect there's an attempt at reducing payouts in some manner. Reduced honor, reduced silver, something.
Their track record is entirely too far in the red for me to start cutting them slack on anything.
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Post by Munki on Sept 30, 2020 16:18:15 GMT -5
I'm running into insane matches almost exclusively since the switch.
Maybe it'll eventually work out, but I have zero faith that Pixonic is being benevolent here. I suspect there's an attempt at reducing payouts in some manner. Reduced honor, reduced silver, something.
Their track record is entirely too far in the red for me to start cutting them slack on anything.
Maybe but it is entirely possible that Pix is facing end times with a player exodus that forced them to make the title somewhat fun to play again. |
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Post by Munki on Sept 30, 2020 16:21:18 GMT -5
Well, this change actually worked out for me personally given I was a bit over 6000 and just past the Master Crate.   |
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Post by T34 on Sept 30, 2020 17:36:09 GMT -5
Its stuff like this that makes it so hard to give Pix the benefit of doubt... The net result of this change is a loss of 6 league points (the total awards sum to -12 plus an additional 6 points for high beacons/kills). This will create downward pressure on league scores, but only for Masters and Champions. IF the leagues had exclusive integrity (e.g. Diamond was only matched with Diamond), this would create a lot more mixing at the line between Expert and Master. The standard system would continue to push Experts up while the new awards would create a little less upward pressure. Thing is, the leagues aren't exclusive and Champs are already mixed down into Expert (and sometimes Diamond). The slight change in league awards won't change the distribution of players. Where before the MM might team two Experts, three Masters and a Champion, it might now grab three Experts, two Masters and a Champion. The shift of one Master to an Expert is just a label. No meaningful change will have happened. Same hanger, same opponents. The only real change is the demoted Expert will no-longer get the Master Reward box. Oh, and its now easier for Masters and Champs to tank down to Expert... A little review: The reset to 5,000 is not a new thing. Its constant and necessary. The basic structure of the League Point award system is inflationary (bottom 2-3 on the winner's side need a meaningful negative award to avoid this). Without a periodic league score reset, Champion scores ultimately inflate to arbitrarily large numbers. This is a problem because the MM looks at league score (not leagues) and tries to match near-scores. IF the MM can't find near-scores it relaxes the definition of what it considers "near." With a "very high" league score, a Champion will not be naturally matched with anyone until there's a match with an open slot and literally no one else to fill it. The resulting wait times for these Uber-Champions is measured in minutes. Since League score ultimately correlates with spending this is an untenable situation for Pixonic, ergo the reset and the absolute fustercluck it creates for Masters and Experts. Indeed, there is now a seeming downward pressure. However, there is one additional consideration that we dont know how it will play out at this stage. Those -22 points were only awarded previously after climbing the leagues for something like 80 cup. So both the old and the new system awarded -22. -13 was the more common award. Will this new system consistently award -22s or will it only do it after a climb. Will it consistently award the +32 points after several losses or is that a thing of the past. This matter should have a considerable bearing on the outcome. The other thing as you have mentioned in regard to intermixing of leagues by the MM-er is also very important. if the MM-er will keep intermixing leagues the effect of this change will be watered down. The thing is that Pix does this regularly and seemingly not for competitiveness but to balance the population in each league. And yes, seems like a huge gift to tankers. Edit: And also worth noting that we need to keep our eyes open for unannounced changes. Pix is really good with sneaking those in. |
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Post by T34 on Sept 30, 2020 17:40:18 GMT -5
I’m actually liking this, from a gameplay perspective. Played a few games and competition is much better, no more rando low level players and ignored beacons. Close games and I might actually drop out of Champs for the first time in . . . cant remember. I’m totally cool with that, but doubt it’s more than a dalliance. Could just be like a league reset and all the (remaining) beasts are clustered now until there is separation. But I can hope! The effects of the league reset would have far more bearing on the shape of matches at this stage. We will need to wait a week to see how all the changes play out. Everyone is in one big cluster atm and the MM-er cant distinguish between players very well. The randomness of the MM-er after a reset always produced more interesting games imo. |
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Post by Replicant on Sept 30, 2020 17:54:27 GMT -5
<snip> there is one additional consideration that we dont know how it will play out at this stage. Those -22 points were only awarded previously after climbing the leagues for something like 80 cup. So both the old and the new system awarded -22. -13 was the more common award. Will this new system consistently award -22s or will it only do it after a climb. Will it consistently award the +32 points after several losses or is that a thing of the past. This matter should have a considerable bearing on the outcome. Do you have a site for this? I know its been discussed and I vaguely remember a pix post about needing to do it because "tankers" or some such B.S., but I can't find anything on it (I try to keep links on everything pix releases on the MM). |
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Post by Pulse Hadron on Sept 30, 2020 18:32:44 GMT -5
<snip> there is one additional consideration that we dont know how it will play out at this stage. Those -22 points were only awarded previously after climbing the leagues for something like 80 cup. So both the old and the new system awarded -22. -13 was the more common award. Will this new system consistently award -22s or will it only do it after a climb. Will it consistently award the +32 points after several losses or is that a thing of the past. This matter should have a considerable bearing on the outcome. Do you have a site for this? I know its been discussed and I vaguely remember a pix post about needing to do it because "tankers" or some such B.S., but I can't find anything on it (I try to keep links on everything pix releases on the MM). They posted about Rating Amortization on April 20th on FB and I pasted the text of it here... war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/39840/rating-amortizationThat’s the -13 instead of -22 T34 is talking about. But there’s also rating inflation, the +32, that I don’t think Pix has ever commented on. It’s just something you see when you get say +26 points for 4th place. |
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Post by T34 on Sept 30, 2020 18:41:12 GMT -5
<snip> there is one additional consideration that we dont know how it will play out at this stage. Those -22 points were only awarded previously after climbing the leagues for something like 80 cup. So both the old and the new system awarded -22. -13 was the more common award. Will this new system consistently award -22s or will it only do it after a climb. Will it consistently award the +32 points after several losses or is that a thing of the past. This matter should have a considerable bearing on the outcome. Do you have a site for this? I know its been discussed and I vaguely remember a pix post about needing to do it because "tankers" or some such B.S., but I can't find anything on it (I try to keep links on everything pix releases on the MM). I've more or less experimented to tie down how it works. Pix did publish an article some time ago sighting that this was done to ensure people do not lose points unfairly and that people are pushed up if they are too OP for their league position. Cant remember the exact words used by Pix but it was a protection mechanism. They've never detailed how it works. However, the way it works (in brief), is if you keep getting points and pass that 80 cup (around 80) accumulation than the -22 comes into play should you lose and be at the bottom of the table. -17 if you are the 5th loser and so on. During a decline you wont get penalised twice by getting -22 (twice in a row). The loss drops to -13 and eventually to -7 (80 cups in reverse). If the player is in the -7 range than any win is likely to get him 24-32 cups even if he is last on the winning team. The +32 can come into play any time if the player gets a relatively big score (unsure of the new thresholds). So at the extremes the point system behaves differently. Thats why i said that it will be interesting to see if the new points system is uniform across the board or not. If it is there will be tankers everywhere as it will be dead easy to lose cups. |
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Post by T34 on Sept 30, 2020 21:14:13 GMT -5
Preliminary testing indicates the points system is as per the table published by Pix. There is no reduction in points on a loss string.
Unbelievable. All that garbage about making it harder to tank and so on and now they have reversed the inhibiting tool totally. Tanking is now as easy as it was before. You just keep racking up -22s one match after another by the looks of things. Pix is so full of 「dookie」.
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Post by Heishiro on Sept 30, 2020 21:21:58 GMT -5
Preliminary testing indicates the points system is as per the table published by Pix. There is no reduction in points on a loss string. Unbelievable. All that garbage about making it harder to tank and so on and now they have reversed the inhibiting tool totally. Tanking is now as easy as it was before. You just keep racking up -22s one match after another by the looks of things. Pix is so full of ?dookie?. Yup same as my thinking. Now if i want i can stay 4ever in master and farm more golds. In champ we are pressured to push our bots and weapons to max. If we stay in master battles are more chill and we dont need to worry about pushing our resources. |
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Sept 30, 2020 21:46:31 GMT -5
I think it will definitely lead to people straddling the masters/champ line. Can reset battle rewards crate at will essentially.
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Post by Browncoats4ever on Sept 30, 2020 22:04:06 GMT -5
I think it will definitely lead to people straddling the masters/champ line. Can reset battle rewards crate at will essentially.  Champs...Masters...Champs...Masters...Champs...Masters... |
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Post by foxypotato on Sept 30, 2020 23:36:03 GMT -5
So the leagues returned to the way they used to be? Before the change to push everyone up into Champions League. This will diminish the Champions League pool and concentrate more players in lower leagues which is fine.
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Happy Fun Ball
Destrier
Posts: 112
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Platform: iOS
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Post by Happy Fun Ball on Sept 30, 2020 23:44:34 GMT -5
So the leagues returned to the way they used to be? Before the change to push everyone up into Champions League. This will diminish the Champions League pool and concentrate more players in lower leagues which is fine. It depends upon how it is implemented. What is the ratio of masters to champs in combined games? If it stays the same as before, wait times for Champs will go up which might turn off some people but will certainly be better for the masters players as they will see less champs. If they increase the ratio (put more masters in), then we have the same wait times as before but the newly minted masters players won't get as many rewards (reduced honor points) as they would have if they had remained in champs. Here is a graph from June showing the number of masters players on red and blue sides during that season. I played hard the entire season and was in Legend League from start to finish. My team got weaker and weaker as time went on.  |
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![](https://i.imgur.com/tNa1VMh.png")
