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Post by Koalabear on Sept 10, 2020 7:54:09 GMT -5
Lets get some discussion around general tactics going. Redfiend has been great with his gear and upgrade posts so lets expand on that and post what tactics for us. For example: Use the Panther's fence to counter RM and Jav mechs. Lay the fence out straight and walk through it lengthwise as this protects your top. Use Killshot to hunt Panthers as the Melee Dash will go through the fence. Plus, with Javs on it, you will hit any Panther whose pilot isn't using the fence described above. Hide against tall cover to protect yourself from RM. You have to be kissing the cover and it has to be high. If in a fast bot, make sure you don't stop moving. Minimum range of the RM is ridiculously long, so if you ever get one in your sights, charge it and hope no other reds come to help it. Even if it's a Guardian and it puts your guns in cool down, if you're close enough to it, it can't hit you. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 10, 2020 8:25:58 GMT -5
Corner Shoot, Corner Shoot, and Corner Shoot. If you aren't in a tank... use the Blues that are. They are happy to take fire for you... at least, I think they are. I know I try to when I am in either the Jug or the Ares. Use Killshot's ability to cross shooting lanes. It's much safer. I know we have talked about it already, but just so it's all here in this thread, use Javs in a sequential pattern rather than a simultaneous pattern when attacking Jugs. Wear down the shield with shot 1, then start on the meat with shot 2. Use Javs not just to hit from behind cover, but to hit their flanks and 6. You get damage bonus when hitting sides are rear... so curving around an obstacle may not only be necessary for safety, but may allow an otherwise attentive player to not look at you and keep looking where they were...which would allow for the hits to occur on the side or rear if they were firing at different Blues... an example is the intersections at CB on a few maps... the Ice map comes to mind, as does the nighttime city map... but there are much more places where this can be done. Further, if you are in a Killshot, use your ability to quickly reposition and do the same thing again if possible... with the increased criticals that Javs have, especially as you rank them up, this can cause some REAL damage. All I got at the moment... supposed to be working...  |
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 10, 2020 13:47:13 GMT -5
Killshot vs any RM or Jav mech (especially Guardians and Shadows). I run Javs on my KS, so to avoid return fire from these mechs, I will get inside their range and just ram them until they die. I believe the RM range is somewhere between 40-50 meters and the Jav is about 15 meters. Get in close and kill 'em with kindness...and the ram...definitely use the ram too. I imagine this makes the Shadow pilots mad (even though I know most are AI) like  |
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 10, 2020 14:19:35 GMT -5
Here's what I've learned from all of the bots I've played extensively with.
Lancer: Not bad at anything, not great at anything, Lancer has more health than all of the other fast bots, even Killshot. The biggest thing the little bugger has going for it is being able to reach places in the maps that other bots really can't, and just skipping around ramps and walls to get places faster than pretty much any other bot can.
Being a light bot means avoiding head to head confrontations and flanking. Other bots will chase you because you're squishy, lead them you their death and use the terrain to get out of sticky situations. There are tons of spots and travel paths that only Lancer can access.
Suggested loadouts:
Javelins: Rain from the rooftops. Enemies can't do much about it in quite a few of the nooks Lancer can get to.
RPGs: Shoot things in the butt, from near or far, and run away when they decide to pay attention to it.
Plasma Cannons: Pick off anything hanging by a thread, especially if it's challenging friendly Tanks.
Pulse cannons: stick and move, pepper anything that isn't focused on you, and when they do give chase, lead them to friendly fatbois and sniper lanes for their eternal reward.
Paragon: Same as Lancer, not bad at anything, but not necessarily good at it either.
MOVE DAMMIT. Paragon's mobility is the biggest plus it has on the battlefield. You want to get the most damage you can where it needs to be. Close attention to your own exposure is mandatory, because Paragon has no built in protections. Paragon at intermediate ranks(3-4) can be training wheels for pretty much everything you want to be able to get done with rank 4+Killshot. If you can manage Paragon well, everything learned in it can be taken to Killshot once it has 16 energy, and even Shadow or guardian in terms of movement, exposure, and what fights to avoid.
Suggested loadouts:
Long Arms: Paragon is the best training bot for learning how to line up your shots before entering a lane. There's no forgiveness for missing like with Panther, and no failsafe if enemies get too close like with Guardian.
Missile racks: More of a Rank 3 loadout. The Peek and play is practice for Ares and Killshot at rank 4(MR8). The biggest mistake a lot of people make with these is staying in the same general area after dropping a volley, instead of using the long reload timer to reposition. Learning how to read the battlefield on Paragon makes your MR play far more effective on faster or chunkier bots wielding them.
Javelins/Rocket Mortars: Paragon is the first bot in your lineup that will be able to use Javelins and Mortars together. Something that can be picked up much more effectively with Killshot. It's a Mid-Range terror that delivers a different experience than straight Javelins. It's something that has to be tried, because it can't be explained. It's much more effective at demolishing slow targets, and does wonders against the advancing wall of Tanks.
Juggernaut: Big, but not invincible. Juggernaut is the base-line for how all of the tanks in game function, and has no glaring weaknesses for it. Using it's shield is more forgiving than Ares, and a regenerating shield sets it apart from the playstyle of Brickhouse. This is the Bot you park in one area at a time, and make a nightmare for the enemy team to push into. Juggeraught should always be where the main confrontation line between friendlies and enemies are, because it is the line. Moving up is a low priority with Juggernaut until the entire team is ready to push up. Moving too far ahead will have the entire enemy team focus you, while allies aren't in a position to take advantage of your impending death.
Suggested loadouts:
Plasma Cannons/Pulse cannon/Carbine: with all of that health, the enemy has to move around you. Sustained fire weapons are great for creating space, because their sustained damage is on par with Missiles Rack's burst damage. With MR, you're helpless for the full ten seconds on reload, which gives the enemy a large window of oppurtunity to finish you off. With sustained fire and consistent, high damage forces enemies to stay out of your lane unless they're bringing heavy firepower.
RPG6: Rank 3 loadout. The controlled fire and shorter reload makes this better suited for Jug, because your role is to be an obstruction.
Stasis 12+ Thermal Lance: I'm working towards this. Juggernaut is area denial on legs. Debuffing the enemy so that they can't escape, or making enemy attackers/Tanks sitting ducks that can't retreat to cover when they're unshielded/empty, makes the whole team happy. It evaporates the faster bots, because it deals consistent medium/high damage, and stops them from getting away.
Missile Rack 8: I'm not a fan of this setup. It's effective as any other bot with MR, but the long cooldown doesn't mesh well with being the center of attention in terms of who the enemy prioritizes getting rid of.
Killshot: easily the most aggressive bot. Lower levels teach you when and where that aggression should be limited, because Killshot is definitely on the squishy side. No bot can steal mid at the start of the match like killshot.
No bot can send other light bots running in terror like Killshot.
Don't be afraid to use the Dash to get OUT of sticky situations instead of ramming face first into your own death. Killshot is great at hunting down scouts, support bots, and attackers, but can get itself into a world of hurt against tanks, and groups of enemies.
When alone, single out enemies, get to flanks,
When in a group, watch for flanks, break off if the enemy has gotten behind you and kill off whatever is trying to steal your home beacons. Getting pinched is not fun. Killshot is the bot most suited to prevent that.
Suggested loadouts:
RPG 6/Missile Rack 8: see the entries for these on bots above.
Pulse cannons/Carbines: These are a bit different on a Killshot. This is the "Bait" setup for it. You want to fire from outside of Dash distance to keep the enemy at bay. It also keeps you far back enough to reliably dodge Missile Rack Volleys. Maintaining the 40-60M range when backing up wears down the enemy to where a friendly can sneeze on them and kill them, or, they're in Dash KO range. Killshots speed means enemies can't easily back away from it either. Just don't turn any corners when something does retreat unless you know there isn't any backup waiting to vaporize you.
Javelins: if you're running Javelins on Killshot, you want to stick with the group and single out whatever friendlies are fighting. As enemies level up, Javs are less reliable to do massive amounts of damage. They take away your ability to push aggressively because of their minimum range and long reload. So while they feel amazing when first obtained, and Killshot can first wield them, that changes as the battlefield changes.
Don't be the guy that spawns Javelin Killshot at the start of the match, and is still in it while the rest of your team is dead. Just don't be that guy.
Panther: the most flexible of the heavy hitters. Panther's wall is pretty much the best territory control ability in the game.
Save teammates by blocking off sniper lanes.
Keep yourself safe while unloading into the enemy team.
Slow retreating enemies down when on flanks. If something is retreating to your lane from a fight, popping the barrier behind them or on them to keep them in the line of sight of what they're running from is what good Panther-bros do.
Suggested loadouts: Panther can do well with any loadout listed under prior bots because of the versatility of having instant 1 way cover. As long as the fence is being used properly, drop your favorites on it and go to town.
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Post by S1E1 on Sept 10, 2020 14:45:52 GMT -5
Was playing duo and ran Ares side-by-side. Did several rounds of the old Ares train trick and it worked pretty well. Of course you need a human player for it and generally seems to work best if you're in a narrow part of the map.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 10, 2020 18:06:40 GMT -5
Was playing duo and ran Ares side-by-side. Did several rounds of the old Ares train trick and it worked pretty well. Of course you need a human player for it and generally seems to work best if you're in a narrow part of the map. That would be a blast... and with only 1 per hangar for most of the player population, it wouldn't get out of hand unless it was all lategamers on a team with 2 per hangar. Even the, the flanks are unprotected and that can be taken advantage of, unlike the worst of the Ares days (pre-nerf). |
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Post by Danny Linguini on Sept 10, 2020 19:19:52 GMT -5
This is probably not a good tactic. But late yesterday I was on a bit of a bad streak, just not being able to do much of anything. It reached a head when I got pulled into a team game with a couple of ‘friends’ who had much weaker hangars and were about 1000 XP below me. I tried to play ‘smart’ and really be an asset to the team, and when it was over, we lost, and they all finished higher than me. So I got pissed, jumped into another game and went at it like a total lunatic, just balls to the wall and caution to the wind. Screw cover, screw hugging walls, if I saw a red, I’d go right at it, unload a clip of javelins then dash what was left to death. I went almost the whole game with that Killshot, and ended up top of the team, and not just by a little. I played a few more like that, won a few, lost a few, but it sure felt good to just stop over-thinking everything for awhile and play by the seat of my pants. So when AI seems to have your number all night long, screw it, go nuts and play angry, and see what happens. Worst case you mech out early and leave the game to go do it again.  |
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Post by hicycles on Sept 10, 2020 19:45:49 GMT -5
Was playing duo and ran Ares side-by-side. Did several rounds of the old Ares train trick and it worked pretty well. Of course you need a human player for it and generally seems to work best if you're in a narrow part of the map. I actually did this with another panther player the other day. Not sure if it was ai or not, but we were rotating our fences. It was pretty cool. |
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Post by S1E1 on Sept 10, 2020 20:39:05 GMT -5
Was playing duo and ran Ares side-by-side. Did several rounds of the old Ares train trick and it worked pretty well. Of course you need a human player for it and generally seems to work best if you're in a narrow part of the map. That would be a blast... and with only 1 per hangar for most of the player population, it wouldn't get out of hand unless it was all lategamers on a team with 2 per hangar. Even the, the flanks are unprotected and that can be taken advantage of, unlike the worst of the Ares days (pre-nerf). Plus the shields aren't invincible and the cooldown timer doesn't start if the shield gets dropped early. With 15 seconds shields up and then 12 second cooldown two players can technically keep themselves shielded the whole time, but really a powerful salvo can leave you both exposed. For us though it worked just fine until we came to a junction and started having to deal with fire from all sides. Was really fun but not OP. It is nice playing a game with balance :-) |
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Post by S1E1 on Sept 10, 2020 20:42:52 GMT -5
Was playing duo and ran Ares side-by-side. Did several rounds of the old Ares train trick and it worked pretty well. Of course you need a human player for it and generally seems to work best if you're in a narrow part of the map. I actually did this with another panther player the other day. Not sure if it was ai or not, but we were rotating our fences. It was pretty cool. Yeah I've done this a bunch and it's a great tactic. I've seen AI get some decent timing with it, which surprised me. |
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Post by Koalabear on Sept 11, 2020 7:06:51 GMT -5
Here's a note about the Javelins. They are kinda like a hybrid between Spirals and Aphids from the War Robots side. They fire their entire magazine at once and they fly fast and hit hard. You can also get better arcs to get those pesky mechs around corners by moving your targeting a bit to the side - not too much to lose lock though. If you're using vertical targeting, then Javs can be a bit tricky to use as you have to put your crosshairs directly on a red to start the lock on process.
Thankfully, the Javs don't fly with single minded determination like Spirals and Hydras. If you're behind tall cover you should be fine. Sometimes though, if I'm behind low cover, it's enough to block the missiles and sometimes it's not. Ditto when I'm the one chucking the Javs. Has anyone figured why? Is it lag? One time, I was duking it out with a Jav6 Ares in my Jav6 Killshot. We were across the map behind the same level of cover. I was a bit below mine and he was a bit taller than his. When I stepped out to fire directly at him, my missiles went over both his cover and his shield, but when I fired from cover and tried to arc my missiles to the side, they hit cover. One of his vollies hit my cover and I was protected, but another of his vollies went over and I got toasted. This was Tournament, so I know we spent at least two rounds doing this type of exchange - we kinda looked for each other or at least I was hunting him. Thoughts?
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 11, 2020 8:16:13 GMT -5
Here's a note about the Javelins. They are kinda like a hybrid between Spirals and Aphids from the War Robots side. They fire their entire magazine at once and they fly fast and hit hard. You can also get better arcs to get those pesky mechs around corners by moving your targeting a bit to the side - not too much to lose lock though. If you're using vertical targeting, then Javs can be a bit tricky to use as you have to put your crosshairs directly on a red to start the lock on process. Thankfully, the Javs don't fly with single minded determination like Spirals and Hydras. If you're behind tall cover you should be fine. Sometimes though, if I'm behind low cover, it's enough to block the missiles and sometimes it's not. Ditto when I'm the one chucking the Javs. Has anyone figured why? Is it lag? One time, I was duking it out with a Jav6 Ares in my Jav6 Killshot. We were across the map behind the same level of cover. I was a bit below mine and he was a bit taller than his. When I stepped out to fire directly at him, my missiles went over both his cover and his shield, but when I fired from cover and tried to arc my missiles to the side, they hit cover. One of his vollies hit my cover and I was protected, but another of his vollies went over and I got toasted. This was Tournament, so I know we spent at least two rounds doing this type of exchange - we kinda looked for each other or at least I was hunting him. Thoughts? I haven't gotten that deep with trying to figure out the javs' firing mechanics... but that sounds like something worth testing:
How does standing behind cover affect it? Does the direction you are facing change things like altitude and final target approach? Is it random? Does the critical hit chance affect flight path and accuracy or just the damage if it hits? |
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Post by ᥣᵃᵛᵃʲᵃᵛᵃ on Sept 11, 2020 9:01:10 GMT -5
This is probably not a good tactic. But late yesterday I was on a bit of a bad streak, just not being able to do much of anything. It reached a head when I got pulled into a team game with a couple of ‘friends’ who had much weaker hangars and were about 1000 XP below me. I tried to play ‘smart’ and really be an asset to the team, and when it was over, we lost, and they all finished higher than me. So I got pissed, jumped into another game and went at it like a total lunatic, just balls to the wall and caution to the wind. Screw cover, screw hugging walls, if I saw a red, I’d go right at it, unload a clip of javelins then dash what was left to death. I went almost the whole game with that Killshot, and ended up top of the team, and not just by a little. I played a few more like that, won a few, lost a few, but it sure felt good to just stop over-thinking everything for awhile and play by the seat of my pants. So when AI seems to have your number all night long, screw it, go nuts and play angry, and see what happens. Worst case you mech out early and leave the game to go do it again. I now see where I'm going wrong and meching out too early, cos this playstyle sounds very much like my normal matches!! Banzai! |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 11, 2020 10:49:31 GMT -5
This is probably not a good tactic. But late yesterday I was on a bit of a bad streak, just not being able to do much of anything. It reached a head when I got pulled into a team game with a couple of ‘friends’ who had much weaker hangars and were about 1000 XP below me. I tried to play ‘smart’ and really be an asset to the team, and when it was over, we lost, and they all finished higher than me. So I got pissed, jumped into another game and went at it like a total lunatic, just balls to the wall and caution to the wind. Screw cover, screw hugging walls, if I saw a red, I’d go right at it, unload a clip of javelins then dash what was left to death. I went almost the whole game with that Killshot, and ended up top of the team, and not just by a little. I played a few more like that, won a few, lost a few, but it sure felt good to just stop over-thinking everything for awhile and play by the seat of my pants. So when AI seems to have your number all night long, screw it, go nuts and play angry, and see what happens. Worst case you mech out early and leave the game to go do it again. I will definitely agree that the KS is one of, if not THE best, bot to go all LEEEEROOOOYYYY JEEEENNNKKKIIINSSS with. It's just made for it. I have been really working on keeping my aim while jinking, too... I'm not perfect at it but I have gone toe to toe with a few folks and dodged MANY of their shots while hitting them... so... basically Muhammed Ali - Float like a butterfly... Sting like a bee. I use the MR6s instead of the Javs now, but the principle is the same... hit as much as you can while not getting hit lol, and the KS is just so good at that. |
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 11, 2020 11:09:26 GMT -5
Here's a note about the Javelins. They are kinda like a hybrid between Spirals and Aphids from the War Robots side. They fire their entire magazine at once and they fly fast and hit hard. You can also get better arcs to get those pesky mechs around corners by moving your targeting a bit to the side - not too much to lose lock though. If you're using vertical targeting, then Javs can be a bit tricky to use as you have to put your crosshairs directly on a red to start the lock on process. Thankfully, the Javs don't fly with single minded determination like Spirals and Hydras. If you're behind tall cover you should be fine. Sometimes though, if I'm behind low cover, it's enough to block the missiles and sometimes it's not. Ditto when I'm the one chucking the Javs. Has anyone figured why? Is it lag? One time, I was duking it out with a Jav6 Ares in my Jav6 Killshot. We were across the map behind the same level of cover. I was a bit below mine and he was a bit taller than his. When I stepped out to fire directly at him, my missiles went over both his cover and his shield, but when I fired from cover and tried to arc my missiles to the side, they hit cover. One of his vollies hit my cover and I was protected, but another of his vollies went over and I got toasted. This was Tournament, so I know we spent at least two rounds doing this type of exchange - we kinda looked for each other or at least I was hunting him. Thoughts? It may have to do with which side of your mech you're firing your volleys from. Let's say you're facing to the right to fire. If you fire both sides facing to the right like this, the left side Javs will be closer to the target than the right side and will take a slightly different trajectory. I've noticed (watching my own missiles fly) that the further away you are, the "flatter" the trajectory is. This is important to note because (since we were talking about the Ares) a higher trajectory will make the missiles arc higher and come down from a steeper angle, thus avoiding the cover more. If your opponent is doing this and hiding behind cover, closer is better (more likely to hit). Therefore, a good strategy when a Jav KS is fighting a Jav Ares is to wait until he fires first, dash in close under his Javs (they can't track that fast and many will miss you), then fire closer to him and have them arc over his shield/cover. Also, another tactic I'm exploring is that of "overkill" (I just made that up...I'm going to have to work on marketing this more). I think that by creating a wider path, you can have the missiles swing wider than they normally would and almost come back like a boomerang to reach around corners. I need to keep testing this, but I think it may work. I'm including a picture of what I'm talking about.  |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 11, 2020 11:14:15 GMT -5
Here's a note about the Javelins. They are kinda like a hybrid between Spirals and Aphids from the War Robots side. They fire their entire magazine at once and they fly fast and hit hard. You can also get better arcs to get those pesky mechs around corners by moving your targeting a bit to the side - not too much to lose lock though. If you're using vertical targeting, then Javs can be a bit tricky to use as you have to put your crosshairs directly on a red to start the lock on process. Thankfully, the Javs don't fly with single minded determination like Spirals and Hydras. If you're behind tall cover you should be fine. Sometimes though, if I'm behind low cover, it's enough to block the missiles and sometimes it's not. Ditto when I'm the one chucking the Javs. Has anyone figured why? Is it lag? One time, I was duking it out with a Jav6 Ares in my Jav6 Killshot. We were across the map behind the same level of cover. I was a bit below mine and he was a bit taller than his. When I stepped out to fire directly at him, my missiles went over both his cover and his shield, but when I fired from cover and tried to arc my missiles to the side, they hit cover. One of his vollies hit my cover and I was protected, but another of his vollies went over and I got toasted. This was Tournament, so I know we spent at least two rounds doing this type of exchange - we kinda looked for each other or at least I was hunting him. Thoughts? It may have to do with which side of your mech you're firing your volleys from. Let's say you're facing to the right to fire. If you fire both sides facing to the right like this, the left side Javs will be closer to the target than the right side and will take a slightly different trajectory. I've noticed (watching my own missiles fly) that the further away you are, the "flatter" the trajectory is. This is important to note because (since we were talking about the Ares) a higher trajectory will make the missiles arc higher and come down from a steeper angle, thus avoiding the cover more. If your opponent is doing this and hiding behind cover, closer is better (more likely to hit). Therefore, a good strategy when a Jav KS is fighting a Jav Ares is to wait until he fires first, dash in close under his Javs (they can't track that fast and many will miss you), then fire closer to him and have them arc over his shield/cover. Also, another tactic I'm exploring is that of "overkill" (I just made that up...I'm going to have to work on marketing this more). I think that by creating a wider path, you can have the missiles swing wider than they normally would and almost come back like a boomerang to reach around corners. I need to keep testing this, but I think it may work. I'm including a picture of what I'm talking about. So... by creating a wider path, do you mean just increasing the angle at which you are facing away from the target? |
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 11, 2020 11:19:46 GMT -5
It may have to do with which side of your mech you're firing your volleys from. Let's say you're facing to the right to fire. If you fire both sides facing to the right like this, the left side Javs will be closer to the target than the right side and will take a slightly different trajectory. I've noticed (watching my own missiles fly) that the further away you are, the "flatter" the trajectory is. This is important to note because (since we were talking about the Ares) a higher trajectory will make the missiles arc higher and come down from a steeper angle, thus avoiding the cover more. If your opponent is doing this and hiding behind cover, closer is better (more likely to hit). Therefore, a good strategy when a Jav KS is fighting a Jav Ares is to wait until he fires first, dash in close under his Javs (they can't track that fast and many will miss you), then fire closer to him and have them arc over his shield/cover. Also, another tactic I'm exploring is that of "overkill" (I just made that up...I'm going to have to work on marketing this more). I think that by creating a wider path, you can have the missiles swing wider than they normally would and almost come back like a boomerang to reach around corners. I need to keep testing this, but I think it may work. I'm including a picture of what I'm talking about. So... by creating a wider path, do you mean just increasing the angle at which you are facing away from the target? Yes. The blue path arc shows the view that the green circle is initially taking. The player on the left is not turning as far left as the player on the right is. The beginning of the arc is showing the initial viewing angle. And a big shout-out to Microsoft Paint for making this illustration possible.  |
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Post by ᥣᵃᵛᵃʲᵃᵛᵃ on Sept 11, 2020 11:22:02 GMT -5
So... by creating a wider path, do you mean just increasing the angle at which you are facing away from the target? Yes. The blue path arc shows the view that the green circle is initially taking. The player on the left is not turning as far left as the player on the right is. The beginning of the arc is showing the initial viewing angle. Need to test this, sounds plausible and I wonder if it works in 3D - i.e. vertical axis to really 'spoon' the javs over cover... |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 11, 2020 11:22:04 GMT -5
So... by creating a wider path, do you mean just increasing the angle at which you are facing away from the target? Yes. The blue path arc shows the view that the green circle is initially taking. The player on the left is not turning as far left as the player on the right is. The beginning of the arc is showing the initial viewing angle. Thought so... just wanted to be clear... will try it out too if I get a chance... cheers! |
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Post by Redfiend on Sept 11, 2020 11:22:46 GMT -5
On Javelins:
The greater the distance/Curve to the target, the lower the trajectory.
Swing your crosshair away as the Javs are firing and you can get some pretty gnarly shots.
Once the weapons are firing, lock on being broken doesn't matter.
It is possible to boomerang them if you fire, turn, and dash with Killshot.
An example using the current tournament map:
There are cubbies on either side of the center stack of containers. If someone is in the cubby, and you have a lock, if you fire, then immediately dash forward(so that they're behind you) the missiles will make a U Turn.
It's unreliable, but funny as hell when it works.
Elevation is key to hitting Ares through it's shield. If you fire from far away, the Javs will have a low arc and hit the shield. If you're at the bare minimum range, more missiles will arc over it. If you're at a higher elevation, even better.
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Post by Koalabear on Sept 11, 2020 11:31:11 GMT -5
Yup, wider path. That's what I was refering to about aiming a bit away from the target before firing. It's the same principle behind Spirals and Hydras, except Javs don't have their freakish targeting and flight paths.
As for dashing under the Javs in a Killshot, I've tried that and most of the time, I just end up dying. I think I do miss some of the volley, but usually at that point, I have so little HP that it's moot.
The absolute best results I ever get is when I step out of cover (well roll out of cover) and do a full head on launch. The missiles will go over Ares's shield and most cover that doesn't completely cover the mech's head. A double whammy this way is usually enough to kill healthy Lancers and Paragons and do significant damage to Jugs that don't have their shields up. Panthers are very prone to this tactic too. It's a high risk high reward move.
Free aim and vertical targeting is essential for me cause I can look up and make sure there isn't tall cover or even a ceiling above me that can kill my volley of missiles.
Oh, has anyone else noticed what must be splash of some sort with Javs? I've targeted a red, launched and managed to kill it and it's neighbor in the same volley. I don't know if it's my missiles switching targets when the first one died or if it's splash cause it usually happens behind cover.
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Post by mechtout on Sept 11, 2020 12:13:38 GMT -5
Another tip i learned is to save your crates until tourney time, that way you have a ton to open for tickets.
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Post by Danny Linguini on Sept 11, 2020 12:19:35 GMT -5
Yes. The blue path arc shows the view that the green circle is initially taking. The player on the left is not turning as far left as the player on the right is. The beginning of the arc is showing the initial viewing angle. Need to test this, sounds plausible and I wonder if it works in 3D - i.e. vertical axis to really 'spoon' the javs over cover... It definitely works. I carried the practice over from War Robots. I’ve even gotten javelin volleys to go under overhead cover by taking it to the extreme. Gotta be careful though, because it can work against you as well. If you’re in tight quarters and you aim farther to the side than you need to, the missiles could then hit an obstacle you’re not even looking at because it’s away from your target but actually in their flight arc, and everything misses the target. |
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Sept 11, 2020 13:31:00 GMT -5
EVADING ROCKET MORTARS
...especially in tourneys, I have found it essential to:
- Immediately move left or right to distance yourself from clusters of teammates, not to mention they will probably get in your way anyhow, but you will notice that clustered enemies are what typically appears first on radar
- Moving left or right tends to help move out of the blast zone where mortars drop; if you are in Killshot and see the salvo launch, you can Melee Dash away from where they targeted you
- Hug walls and find something with an overhead roof while identifying the mortar mech, then gradually make your way to eliminate them.
- There are some maps where you can safely tuck in under a roof while having los on lots of targets as well as other obstacles you can use for temporary cover. This way, even if you can’t get to the mortar mech, you can avoid their shots an entire match while taking out their teammates who expose.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Sept 12, 2020 18:31:14 GMT -5
RPGs & MISSILE RACK 8s: Taking Advantage of Max Range
Moving into close proximity of targets can be a bad habit, and is not always a wise move, especially when multiple reds are clustered while the other reds may be flanking. I’m writing this for those, who like me have had a habit of mainly using these two types of weapon for close combat.
If you pay close attention to the range indicator together with getting a visual perspective on just how far the max range of these two weapon types are, you realize that you can reach targets from quite a ways out. If you play Longarms or Thermal Lance for example, you already utilize range and have some familiarity with ‘sniper lanes’, so the same advantage should be used for Rpg & Mr. This contributes to combat longevity, and allows you to strike or assist against unsuspecting targets.
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Post by ᥣᵃᵛᵃʲᵃᵛᵃ on Sept 13, 2020 10:23:15 GMT -5
Another tip i learned is to save your crates until tourney time, that way you have a ton to open for tickets. Also works for those daily tasks "Open 5 crates" and "Collect XX blueprints" |
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Post by Koalabear on Sept 14, 2020 8:48:15 GMT -5
So, I got totally owned over the weekend by a guy running a Zephyr. I thought the Guardian was bad with it's ability to put ability and guns on cool down, but the Zephyr has EMP, which completely disables a mech and then it can casually saunter up and kill your mech with MR8. The only thing I could think of to counter him was to "light" him up every match with the Attack icon and hope my team mates could wear him down. Out of several games where I fought with him on the other side, I think I only won one and that was only because I finally decided to stop trying to kill him and focused on killing his team mates faster than he could kill mine. He still outscored me that game, but at least I finally won one! Oh, and I friended him so that I could play on his team in the future.
Anyway, any tips on how to counter the Zephyr? Unlike the Guardian, it's very fast - like a Lancer or Stalker and it has decent HP too. The EMP range seems short, like the Guardian's ability, so off the top of my head, I think that once you identify the player who's running one, the best thing to do is to keep him at range and don't get baited into a close encounter. But, it's so fast that it's hard to keep an eye on it.
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Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Sept 14, 2020 9:56:13 GMT -5
So, I got totally owned over the weekend by a guy running a Zephyr. I thought the Guardian was bad with it's ability to put ability and guns on cool down, but the Zephyr has EMP, which completely disables a mech and then it can casually saunter up and kill your mech with MR8. The only thing I could think of to counter him was to "light" him up every match with the Attack icon and hope my team mates could wear him down. Out of several games where I fought with him on the other side, I think I only won one and that was only because I finally decided to stop trying to kill him and focused on killing his team mates faster than he could kill mine. He still outscored me that game, but at least I finally won one! Oh, and I friended him so that I could play on his team in the future. Anyway, any tips on how to counter the Zephyr? Unlike the Guardian, it's very fast - like a Lancer or Stalker and it has decent HP too. The EMP range seems short, like the Guardian's ability, so off the top of my head, I think that once you identify the player who's running one, the best thing to do is to keep him at range and don't get baited into a close encounter. But, it's so fast that it's hard to keep an eye on it. I have also been encountering more Zephyr as I approach D1. Spend more time waiting, observing, corner shooting, sneaking, and taking advantage of longer ranged attacks, especially on distracted opponents. The combination of these things allows you to avoid the Zeph in many cases, and for you to get some damage in. I don’t know about you, but suddenly my weapons are doing less damage to targets. Not all the time, but you’d expect this of Juggs, not a Lancer lol. Because of this, I have been trying to hang back more, identify opponents quickly, and work on them before they get too close, and with some of the longer reload weapons I stagger shots so I’m not left without ammo for too long. These things will help you against Zeph |
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 14, 2020 9:59:33 GMT -5
So, I got totally owned over the weekend by a guy running a Zephyr. I thought the Guardian was bad with it's ability to put ability and guns on cool down, but the Zephyr has EMP, which completely disables a mech and then it can casually saunter up and kill your mech with MR8. The only thing I could think of to counter him was to "light" him up every match with the Attack icon and hope my team mates could wear him down. Out of several games where I fought with him on the other side, I think I only won one and that was only because I finally decided to stop trying to kill him and focused on killing his team mates faster than he could kill mine. He still outscored me that game, but at least I finally won one! Oh, and I friended him so that I could play on his team in the future. Anyway, any tips on how to counter the Zephyr? Unlike the Guardian, it's very fast - like a Lancer or Stalker and it has decent HP too. The EMP range seems short, like the Guardian's ability, so off the top of my head, I think that once you identify the player who's running one, the best thing to do is to keep him at range and don't get baited into a close encounter. But, it's so fast that it's hard to keep an eye on it. 100%, they're very hard to take on for all the reasons you mentioned. Additionally, their ability last 6 seconds and it reloads after 8 seconds so they use it a TON. 2 things they don't have that the Guardian does. They can't cancel shields like the Guardian's ability. That means that heavy Juggs are going to be able to weather their ability more. Panther shields are also effective to slow them down. Not Ares so much because you can't put your shield up afterwards and your shield only lasts 12 seconds so that can be an issue. However, the Juggs are perfect. Also, the Zephyr doesn't restart weapon reloads, so if you weather the attack, you can hit him immediately (if he stays exposed, that is). I don't have a Juggs, so I'm mostly dealing with them with SB/TL Ares with the SB to slow them down. Also, the ole Jav KS standby works great. I gotta back peddle and usually it takes 2 volleys to take them down, but it's better than the alternative. PS, speaking of Zephyr  |
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Post by Deadeye on Sept 14, 2020 10:01:48 GMT -5
So, I got totally owned over the weekend by a guy running a Zephyr. I thought the Guardian was bad with it's ability to put ability and guns on cool down, but the Zephyr has EMP, which completely disables a mech and then it can casually saunter up and kill your mech with MR8. The only thing I could think of to counter him was to "light" him up every match with the Attack icon and hope my team mates could wear him down. Out of several games where I fought with him on the other side, I think I only won one and that was only because I finally decided to stop trying to kill him and focused on killing his team mates faster than he could kill mine. He still outscored me that game, but at least I finally won one! Oh, and I friended him so that I could play on his team in the future. Anyway, any tips on how to counter the Zephyr? Unlike the Guardian, it's very fast - like a Lancer or Stalker and it has decent HP too. The EMP range seems short, like the Guardian's ability, so off the top of my head, I think that once you identify the player who's running one, the best thing to do is to keep him at range and don't get baited into a close encounter. But, it's so fast that it's hard to keep an eye on it. I have also been encountering more Zephyr as I approach D1. Spend more time waiting, observing, corner shooting, sneaking, and taking advantage of longer ranged attacks, especially on distracted opponents. The combination of these things allows you to avoid the Zeph in many cases, and for you to get some damage in. I don’t know about you, but suddenly my weapons are doing less damage to targets. Not all the time, but you’d expect this of Juggs, not a Lancer lol. Because of this, I have been trying to hang back more, identify opponents quickly, and work on them before they get too close, and with some of the longer reload weapons I stagger shots so I’m not left without ammo for too long. These things will help you against Zeph This is the huge increase in HP mechs get when leveling up. Check the best mechs screen to see levels afterward. I've noticed that many mechs are R4 or R5 which is why they laugh at my paltry R3 mechs and weapons. |
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