nofux
Recruit
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League: Diamond
Server Region: Europe
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Post by nofux on Mar 17, 2017 6:55:11 GMT -5
So you get unlucky ( happens a lot) and your team is mostly comprised of morons....you get left alone, idiots run away, nubs, etc etc...do what you can but lose....
then get bashed by massive point losses ?
So if you want to keep up with the joneses you have to buy gold to get good weps...bolox, I'm deleting robots
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Post by nocluevok on Mar 17, 2017 7:09:48 GMT -5
I have a feeling things will settle down once everyone realizes War Robots is a team effort again, not a solo mission. If not, we'll all end up in Bronze League.
I'm hoping this is a quick fix until Pix works out the details for beacon capping bonuses and other game factors the players are unhappy about.
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Mar 17, 2017 7:13:41 GMT -5
So you get unlucky ( happens a lot) and your team is mostly comprised of morons....you get left alone, idiots run away, nubs, etc etc...do what you can but lose.... then get bashed by massive point losses ? So if you want to keep up with the joneses you have to buy gold to get good weps...bolox, I'm deleting robots ... first post, last post... Welcome to the... nevermind.  |
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Post by osang on Mar 19, 2017 8:45:35 GMT -5
I have a feeling things will settle down once everyone realizes War Robots is a team effort again, not a solo mission. If not, we'll all end up in Bronze League. I'm hoping this is a quick fix until Pix works out the details for beacon capping bonuses and other game factors the players are unhappy about. Bronze League....  |
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Post by Old Dude on Mar 21, 2017 10:07:47 GMT -5
Today.. Team loses match because of no beacon control. I finished 2nd with 472,000 pts, 5 kills and 1 beacon (not shabby). I lose 14 points. I thought 1st and 2nd place on losing team did not lose points?  ?? |
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Post by amidf on Mar 21, 2017 10:16:58 GMT -5
Taking a cue from missleboatssuck, I should change my forum name to pointsbalanceout.
We won't all end up bronze because someone gains points every time someone loses them.
Every time your team is full of morons and you lose because they wouldn't hold the beacons, someone else faced a team full of morons who wouldn't hold the beacons. Sometimes you're on one of those teams, and sometimes you're on the other.
The points awarded were changed recently so all the losers lose points. This has made beacons more important again.
-Amid
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☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Destrier
Posts: 106
Karma: 76
Pilot name: ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Platform: Android
Clan: iΔC
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆ on Mar 21, 2017 10:26:21 GMT -5
Today.. Team loses match because of no beacon control. I finished 2nd with 472,000 pts, 5 kills and 1 beacon (not shabby). I lose 14 points. I thought 1st and 2nd place on losing team did not lose points? ??
Does anyone read Pixonic's updates or release notes? Pixonic explained the change the day it made it on the live server. Search the "News & Announcements" forum for more info.
To put it simply; only winning team gets points. Losing team loses points. Net total between winners and losers is, of course, 0.
Game is no longer just about damage. You have to WIN.
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 21, 2017 10:44:45 GMT -5
Taking a cue from missleboatssuck, I should change my forum name to pointsbalanceout. We won't all end up bronze because someone gains points every time someone loses them. Every time your team is full of morons and you lose because they wouldn't hold the beacons, someone else faced a team full of morons who wouldn't hold the beacons. Sometimes you're on one of those teams, and sometimes you're on the other. The points awarded were changed recently so all the losers lose points. This has made beacons more important again. -Amid Yeah, but the way the league is set up I don't think enough new league points are entering the system. Hangar strength has definitely moved DOWN the league ladder in Android since leagues launched. There aren't enough new players losing league points to balance out the points being earned as some of them climb up in leagues. I guess 12/12 hangar with 5 bots or gtfo. Thanks Pixo. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 10:56:36 GMT -5
The whole purpose of this was to push people to max their hangars. That's where the profit is for Pix. Feeling like you have to overcome the deficiencies of your teammates (which are often created by Pix - the recruit league guy dropped onto my side in a low gold / high sliver battle is a good example of that) creates further pressure. So its no surprise that Pix has switched up the points in this manner. Anything that makes you feel you can't have relatively consistent success with your current hangar is good for Pix's wallet.
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Post by amidf on Mar 21, 2017 10:59:36 GMT -5
Taking a cue from missleboatssuck, I should change my forum name to pointsbalanceout. We won't all end up bronze because someone gains points every time someone loses them. Every time your team is full of morons and you lose because they wouldn't hold the beacons, someone else faced a team full of morons who wouldn't hold the beacons. Sometimes you're on one of those teams, and sometimes you're on the other. The points awarded were changed recently so all the losers lose points. This has made beacons more important again. -Amid Yeah, but the way the league is set up I don't think enough new league points are entering the system. Hangar strength has definitely moved DOWN the league ladder in Android since leagues launched. There aren't enough new players losing league points to balance out the points being earned as some of them climb up in leagues. I guess 12/12 hangar with 5 bots or gtfo. Thanks Pixo. Anyone else can concur with this? My league position hasn't changed much since placement. Up about 150 points after 3 weeks on iOS. -Amid |
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Post by ou812gr8m8 on Mar 21, 2017 11:03:33 GMT -5
"I guess 12/12 hangar with 5 bots or gtfo. Thanks Pixo."
I disagree. I don't feel the need for 12/12. I'm having fun right now.
Sorry you're not.
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Post by [apotheosis] on Mar 21, 2017 11:29:35 GMT -5
Im not having issues at all. Im slowly moving up as you would expect, and have an acceptable mix of good games and bad.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 12:20:33 GMT -5
Im not having issues at all. Im slowly moving up as you would expect, and have an acceptable mix of good games and bad. I wish I had an acceptable mix of games. Generally, it goes through periods where it is pointless to play because right from the start the blues are going to lose (that's certainly where things are at this morning), to multi game win streaks where I can do no wrong... in fact I could probably just sit on the spawn and watch my teammates roll. The truth is that Pix does very little that is actually random - they are prone to being a bit manipulative. Generally to determine what would make a good match, there are a number of factors that can be modelled - the assessment of a player's ability (e.g. rating), the uncertainty of that assessment (which probably isn't a factor in a cumulative rating system) and the estimated game-to-game variability of that player (e.g. reliability). I would not be at all surprised if player reliability was part of the matchmaking equation perhaps tied in with how successful players have been in the last few games - e.g. if there are low reliability players in the draw pool, it's players who have done well recently who they get teamed up with. |
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Post by petevb on Mar 21, 2017 12:59:56 GMT -5
I agree the latest matchmaker evolution is too "harsh". At champion's league level winning solo is rare because the matchmaker seems unable to reliably assemble randoms that match the quality of better squads/ clans. As a result strong players are reluctant to play solo and this compounds the problem. If you care about winning you currently need to squad up, which makes it much more difficult to get a casual game.
Map picking has also become far more common with this evolution- a number of top clans have long designed their hangers to play certain maps (ie play tight maps, drop open ones) but in order to be competitive this has now trickled down to the masses. In my first game on Power Plant today I was the only player with range in- every other player was all brawler and clearly picking maps.
The combination of these factors means the game has gotten far more serious. If you need squad and drop certain maps to keep the playing field level the game is no longer a casual stress relief. I find myself playing less often- why make time for 1-2 games if I know I'll likely lose them?
In short this evolution seems an over-reaction. Players went from caring too little about winning with the previous system to caring too much now, and that's hurting the game just as much if not more. I'm certain I'm not the only one playing less...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 13:25:29 GMT -5
petevb - you make a number of solid points. It has been my feeling for a while that Pix really isn't doing a thorough analysis of the potential consequences related to the decisions they make. Perhaps this is because they lack a clear vision of the ideal state (outside of being profitable). You need a framework to align these kinds of decisions, otherwise you get into weird spaces where you are giving players lots of individual rights (skip maps, leave games, idle freely) but then assessing results mainly based on team performance. That's the whole "keep the whole class after school because one kid misbehaved" kind of problem. I've already done enough testing to know that at any league higher than bronze II, one side being short a man from the start is close to an automatic loss.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 13:30:07 GMT -5
A few random thoughts that I think fit here in this thread: 1) I run all brawlers right now. Its better for me than using Trident Fury. I don't drop any maps. I can make brawlers do work on Yam, Canyon, and Springfield. I am not a great player by any means. I just like brawlers best and so i run them. So not every 5 brawler hangar is selecting maps. Some are just dorks like me that dont enjoy the trident shooters experience. 2) Why is the loss of league points such a big deal to everyone? I mean it. Please describe to me so i understand the pain you feel losing 15 league points? There are guys who purposely lose to shed points. If you are trying your best, and go on a losing streak, be patient. It turns around. Either on its own, or after you drop. Everyone seems to think they are a Legend League player in a Silver/Gold Hangar with bronze teammates, and therefore, losing points (its always their teammates fault) is some type of affront. Just own it, and move along. Last night I lost 5-6 games with VivaLaResistance and HEATHEN HERETIC as we squadded with a clanmate from Masters League, and faced full squads of Expert and Masters league players. Yeah it hurt, but it was fun and intense too. Then, after the squad broke up, i won 4-5 games straight. I think my net loss for the night was -10. No big deal. But even if I never won the points back, and dropped from Diamond to Gold, it's still no big deal. Help me understand why it bothers some people to lose these little points so badly? 3) The games are good. I like having leagues, and progression. I do miss being able to pick my comp by running lower gear from the old tiers system, but from what I understand, we can still do this. If you drop down by losing in your medium or light bots, you can face bronze or silver leagues and enjoy the heck out of your golems again. Just because you drop, doesn't mean you have to insert your max gear to crush the noobs. You could run fair gear and play with them. A lot of guys complaining and tanking keep yo-yo-ing up and down. Just stay down there. Run your Geps and Golems. Have fun with it. |
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 21, 2017 13:44:31 GMT -5
A few random thoughts that I think fit here in this thread: 1) I run all brawlers right now. Its better for me than using Trident Fury. I don't drop any maps. I can make brawlers do work on Yam, Canyon, and Springfield. I am not a great player by any means. I just like brawlers best and so i run them. So not every 5 brawler hangar is selecting maps. Some are just dorks like me that dont enjoy the trident shooters experience. 2) Why is the loss of league points such a big deal to everyone? I mean it. Please describe to me so i understand the pain you feel losing 15 league points? There are guys who purposely lose to shed points. If you are trying your best, and go on a losing streak, be patient. It turns around. Either on its own, or after you drop. Everyone seems to think they are a Legend League player in a Silver/Gold Hangar with bronze teammates, and therefore, losing points (its always their teammates fault) is some type of affront. Just own it, and move along. Last night I lost 5-6 games with VivaLaResistance and HEATHEN HERETIC as we squadded with a clanmate from Masters League, and faced full squads of Expert and Masters league players. Yeah it hurt, but it was fun and intense too. Then, after the squad broke up, i won 4-5 games straight. I think my net loss for the night was -10. No big deal. But even if I never won the points back, and dropped from Diamond to Gold, it's still no big deal. Help me understand why it bothers some people to lose these little points so badly? 3) The games are good. I like having leagues, and progression. I do miss being able to pick my comp by running lower gear from the old tiers system, but from what I understand, we can still do this. If you drop down by losing in your medium or light bots, you can face bronze or silver leagues and enjoy the heck out of your golems again. Just because you drop, doesn't mean you have to insert your max gear to crush the noobs. You could run fair gear and play with them. A lot of guys complaining and tanking keep yo-yo-ing up and down. Just stay down there. Run your Geps and Golems. Have fun with it. I have to disagree here. @kingkull is definitely correct that there are some MM shenanigans Pixonic is pulling that aren't visible to common players. They are Matchmaking on more than just league score. It becomes obvious when you start manipulating your league score like the two of us have. Players who play the game "straight" will be blind to it, and that's what Pixonic is counting on. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 13:47:36 GMT -5
@heavypanda - My experience has been that there has been significant hangar inflation in the lower leagues. Silver is 8+/8+ territory with no shortage of near max weapons and bots. New players are bulked up on heavies, because that's what they see being used against them. There is literally no environment for the old "high bronze" kind of hangar anymore unless you are a true newb, and even then it really doesn't last long.
Another point from experience - once you get out of the low bronze world, being down a man from the start is close to an automatic loss for that side (unless someone in red bails out too). This is relatively easy to test by doing the thing-that-cannot-be-named. Bronze II is where you start to see shorthanded wins on a more frequent basis. This tends to create that perspective of "my allies are killing me", because there are 5 of them who all individually can have a huge impact if they decide to flake out on a game you want to play. That being said, any game where the whole team stays and tries to win will generally be a good one (win or lose).
I scored over a million points and had 9 kills last night in a game where two players on my side ditched after scoring around 25k. Seeing the "You lose" and the -12 really doesn't reflect the relative contribution of the players in blue. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Pix could easily fix that if they wanted to and still maintain the overall loss and gain of points on the two sides.
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 21, 2017 13:51:57 GMT -5
the amount of text in threads, or the number of threads alone.. is like the amount of thought and prep needed to play this flipping game now.. way too much.. way way way too much... too much reading, too many threads, too much surgical everything needed to 'properly' play a game... the majority don't bother, why should they.. because you have to if you want to survive?? what happened to just being able to sit back and blast stuff... oh yeah... enjoy your express lane to bronze
the TT don't seem to be in love from what I read, anywhere in the middle sucks pretty badly and being new.. if this thread is any indicator.. at least I'm not new??
ooof, some 'game'
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:02:36 GMT -5
@kingkull and blastronaut , I defer to you both on the MM and programming and hidden strings, and I am always interested in reading people's theories and proposed solutions on improving the MM, and why or why not Pix may want a more balanced gameplay. My points are more directly related to the loss of league points, and why we don't need a new thread created every dang time someone feels their -15 wasn't justified. I am sad to hear that the low medium builds are not viable even down in bronze league. That is too bad. That was a fun meta. New players today should get to do that. whatttupG , sitting back and blowin' up bots is what i do. No high prep here, nor any super strategy matrix ninja moves. In-game, as in forum, I am just a slow, chunky bear with a gun, trying to make you go boom. |
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 21, 2017 14:17:34 GMT -5
@kingkull and blastronaut , I defer to you both on the MM and programming and hidden strings, and I am always interested in reading people's theories and proposed solutions on improving the MM, and why or why not Pix may want a more balanced gameplay. My points are more directly related to the loss of league points, and why we don't need a new thread created every dang time someone feels their -15 wasn't justified. I am sad to hear that the low medium builds are not viable even down in bronze league. That is too bad. That was a fun meta. New players today should get to do that. whatttupG , sitting back and blowin' up bots is what i do. No high prep here, nor any super strategy matrix ninja moves. In-game, as in forum, I am just a slow, chunky bear with a gun, trying to make you go boom. The problem with power creeping down the league ladder is that people will get angry that they have to spend money to buy bots, weapons, and speed upgrades just to stay where they are, and where they think that they belong. I personally have no issues with losing league points. I can definitely understand why there has been an uptick in posts by frustrated players though. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:25:42 GMT -5
blastronaut, yes, but I think a lot of the frustration is also derived from people confusing "where they are" and "where they think that they belong". There is anger at the game for pushing Pilot ABCDE down from Gold to Silver. But if that gives Pilot ABCDE better matches and lets him finish better on the table, Pilot ABCDE should not get so salty about the demotion. The MM and the game could use improvement, sure, but its not the MM's fault every time. Dropping a league does not lower your in game resources by any tangible amount, so other than ego, there should not be so much angst about being labelled Silver vs Gold.
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Post by whatttupG on Mar 21, 2017 14:29:26 GMT -5
Yeah, fun is what I fell back too as well, cost me a few hundred points and progressing into the next league. Now that I don't really care about points or leagues I guess I'm finally in the right mindset to have fun still. This sure seems like a stupid stance to have in something called a 'game' but that seems to be the current formula.
You know in the contracting world, there is a phrase that says "chaos is cash". Funny how parallel that is to this, given they likely started at opposite ends of the world. I mean one is more of a reaction you wind up with when a project is overwhelmed, and the other seems to be an approach that is being proactively rolled out over and over.
While these two stances don't share a thing, it's odd.. almost statistically impossible perhaps.. to say they don't both arrive at the same place.
chaos
chaos is cash
hmm...
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Post by Fanghorn on Mar 21, 2017 14:33:55 GMT -5
Im not having issues at all. Im slowly moving up as you would expect, and have an acceptable mix of good games and bad. This. Exactly. |
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☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Destrier
Posts: 106
Karma: 76
Pilot name: ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆
Platform: Android
Clan: iΔC
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Galahad
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Post by ☆ CORVUSNEX ☆ on Mar 21, 2017 14:35:06 GMT -5
I have a set of data points from last night.
I played 13 games last night in Master league with a max 5-bot hangar; 3 games with a similarly-leveled squad (Expert thru Champion) and 10 solo.
Results:
Games 1 & 2 - Full clan squad - WINs
Game 3 - Full clan squad vs. full clan squad - LOSS
Games 4-13 - Solo - WINs
My experience with the new league system and matchmaker has been nothing but positive (in terms of overall points progression). Last night alone I progressed halfway through Master 3 to Master 2. It has been great! Maybe I have been unbelievably lucky, but I have no had problems with (blue) players ditching. Many matches were started 5v6 put were brought to parity in under a minute.
My experience with the League system has been so different than what I read on this forum that I sometimes think I'm playing a different game.
I would like to know the thoughts of others in Master & Champion league; is this typical of games in these leagues? What has been your experience, and how similar is it to what people have been posting on this forum?
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Post by petevb on Mar 21, 2017 14:38:29 GMT -5
1) I run all brawlers right now. Its better for me than using Trident Fury. I don't drop any maps. I can make brawlers do work on Yam, Canyon, and Springfield. I am not a great player by any means. I just like brawlers best and so i run them. So not every 5 brawler hangar is selecting maps. Some are just dorks like me that dont enjoy the trident shooters experience. In top you'll be stacked against squads specifically running both types of maps including range maps. On open maps like Canyons you'll find 1-2 range bots each, a selection of TT and Zeus Fury, Butch Trebs, Ancilots to protect the Fury, lots of shield bots and Ancilots at center. If your team is roughly equal skill and all brawler it's virtually a guaranteed loss. I've accepted plenty of invites to run with these squads- I'm not guessing that many if not most are choosing maps, I know it for a fact. The bots that are most effective on each map are very different, so overcoming a good team that's choosing maps by definition requires either much greater skill than that team or a lot of luck. I'm glad that you've found a relatively level playing field in the lower tiers. Two weeks ago in Top I would have agreed with you. Today that's no longer the case. I don't want to squad and choose maps to get an even playing field, and currently the matchmaker and game is rigged against those unwilling to do that. The game is effectively predetermining outcomes, and in many games I know even before I drop that the game is a lost cause. No matter how well I play a loss is a forgone conclusion, and not because I lack the skill to play at my current level. I'll play it anyway, but that's something I have a big problem with. I'm playing less until it's fixed. Solo game yesterday. Then I squad up and win. YMMV...  |
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 21, 2017 14:49:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:55:16 GMT -5
petevb, thanks for your response. I read your initial post again, and i see your point. If a new way to game the system for league points is to specialize the maps, that does seem like a bad thing, and hopefully Pix can address. These guys are not getting negative points for dropping maps I take it? At my lower tier, i don't really see this behavior or coordination in bots, but we see fewer full squads in general in Gold and Diamond, so it may be something that plagues only the top.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 15:01:24 GMT -5
Oh man, blastronaut, that's some high level stuff right there. I need an ancilot to lessen my fun pain. Maybe so. Never thought about it like that. Does this mean I take my wife out to the movies because my kids are fun pain too? They are fun, and a pain. Here I thought I was just blowing up robots... |
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Post by Paps on Mar 21, 2017 18:32:38 GMT -5
I don't think dropping maps because you and your buddies specialize in a different map should be ok. Either get penalized for dropping, or play the matches you're given. Probably not gonna happen, but that's how I feel about it.
That bein said, maybe the game will evolve with modes and such eventually and I'll change my mind about how people play (read game) the game. Right now, War Robots isn't much fun when you're caught in a tug-o-war between Pixonic and the large portion of the player base being self absorbed peckerheads.
Enough 'holdin forth' for me. Not my favorite thing to do anyhow.
Good luck, and Happy Huntin.
Edit: I agree with the new scoring. Not too harsh at all.
Winners win.
Losers lose.
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