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Post by Thunderkiss on Jul 11, 2019 17:50:48 GMT -5
Charge an ares train.
Brilliant.
You'll be dead in 300m.
Oops sorry, I meant "yah if you run head first, no ecu from distance." You can get close and turn on your ability and charge the ares-train. The ECU will melt under a withering hail of retribution fire while the other 2 destroy whats left.
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Post by bronzeknee on Jul 11, 2019 17:57:59 GMT -5
Why is a super uber god shield bot faster than a blitz and as fast as a hellburner and many other smaller weaker bots. I think you know the answer... so they can sell them for ridiculous prices to people who like to buy power. In a year from now, the Ares will look tame next to what they release. And people will ask the same thing of the next line of robots.
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Post by dobby on Jul 11, 2019 18:08:29 GMT -5
endyu : I know what your saying, but it sounds better in theory than it plays out in practice; I have disrupted them (with Blitz, Strider, and an underlevelled Hellburner) and have managed to break them up and even mech one or two on occasion, but it is not at all consistent or reliable, especially if they are semi-competent players. Also, as much as I may not want to admit it, the Ares-train beats me far more often than I beat them. There are a few problems when trying to take out an Ares train, the first is as Thunderkiss said the sheer amount of firepower they have available - so to counter that you are forced to have Last Stand (plus they likely have it as well); so with that equipped on Strider or HB you now only have 1 module slot left and that's for the AC mod; which is the next problem item... In its current state the AC mod is underwhelming (at least on the 3 bots I mentioned when facing Ares), especially when only 1 is equipped; the Blue flash will often happen at the early stages of your assault run, so by the time their Last Stand is ticking down your AC is in cooldown, they lock you and back-pedal away and then your Last Stand is over, as are you. Sure Blitz has that extra slot but it doesn't do you much good as the extra AC just decreases the CD, which still leaves you with a pitifully small period of LD immunity to get your ?dookie? done against multiple opponents. Perhaps if I maxed out my low level HB I'd do better, but I suspect not by much due to the issues above. As I said, sometimes it works out, sometimes they don't have Last Stand, sometimes they are so overconfident they don't notice a flanking attack until it's too late; but usually it doesn't work out all that well, especially playing amongst randoms who often fail to capitalise on any openings you force. Personally, for the cost of it (and because lockdown is such a BS mechanic anyway) I think the AC mod needs a serious buff, more like 10 seconds of immunity from the start of the Blue flash.
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Post by endyu on Jul 11, 2019 18:14:52 GMT -5
endyu : I know what your saying, but it sounds better in theory than it plays out in practice; I have disrupted them (with Blitz, Strider, and an underlevelled Hellburner) and have managed to break them up and even mech one or two on occasion, but it is not at all consistent or reliable, especially if they are semi-competent players. There are a few problems when trying to take out an Ares train, the first is as Thunderkiss said the sheer amount of firepower they have available - so to counter that you are forced to have Last Stand (plus they likely have it as well); so with that equipped on Strider or HB you now only have 1 module slot left and that's for the AC mod; which is the next problem item... In it's current state the AC mod is underwhelming when only 1 is equipped; the Blue flash will often happen at the early stages of your assault run, so by the time their Last Stand is ticking down your AC is in cooldown, they lock you and back-pedal away and then your Last Stand is over, as are you. As I said, sometimes it works out, sometimes they don't have Last Stand, sometimes they are so overconfident they don't notice a flanking attack until it's too late; but usually it doesn't work out all that well, especially playing amongst randoms who often fail to capitalise on any openings you force. Personally for the cost of it (and because lockdown is such a BS mechanic anyway) I think the AC mod needs a serious buff, more like 10 seconds of immunity from the start of the Blue flash. Keep in mind, you're talking about the current Ares with 60 speed while the ability is on. Once that speed gets reduced to 45, things will change. It will be easier to get inside an Ares train, the entire train itself isn't as mobile. You're talking about a bot that can run at 120kmph vs a bot that will only move at 45kmph. Keep in mind that pilot ability, boosts, modules will benefit the hellburner more since it's a percentage gain. 45 speed is the same speed as a bulwark.
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Post by dobby on Jul 11, 2019 18:22:19 GMT -5
Keep in mind, you're talking about the current Ares with 60 speed while the ability is on. Once that speed gets reduced to 45, things will change. It will be easier to get inside an Ares train, the entire train itself isn't as mobile. You're talking about a bot that can run at 120kmph vs a bot that will only move at 45kmph. Keep in mind that pilot ability, boosts, modules will benefit the hellburner more since it's a percentage gain. 45 speed is the same speed as a bulwark. True, but I should note my issue isn't really with getting in the bubble; with good positioning and timing and the AC mod, I can get in there, the issue is staying in there long enough to take them down to Last Stand and then through maxed Last Stand duration, and then to finish them off. That's just too much total time seeing as the AC is in cooldown before their Last Stand has finished, so then 3 of them firing root weapons at me will most definitely lock me and allow at least 2 of them (and probably all 3) to back-pedal to safety before I can move again, at which point I'm probably meched or about to be. Heh, I'll give it a go when the changes hit Last Stand, because I can never know for sure without trying, but honestly from RW experience I don't see this doing all that much to the serious Ares-trains.
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Post by godzillasaurus on Jul 11, 2019 19:17:34 GMT -5
Don't know why they want to nerf the other Pantheon bots, as they're pretty balanced compared to Ares.
Next thing you know, they'll be nerfing Ao Qin along with Ao Jun because that bot is TOO OVERPOWERED, NERF IMMEDIATELY!!!1!!11
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Post by orionpax on Jul 11, 2019 19:36:02 GMT -5
Keep in mind, you're talking about the current Ares with 60 speed while the ability is on. Once that speed gets reduced to 45, things will change. It will be easier to get inside an Ares train, the entire train itself isn't as mobile. You're talking about a bot that can run at 120kmph vs a bot that will only move at 45kmph. Keep in mind that pilot ability, boosts, modules will benefit the hellburner more since it's a percentage gain. 45 speed is the same speed as a bulwark. True, but I should note my issue isn't really with getting in the bubble; with good positioning and timing and the AC mod, I can get in there, the issue is staying in there long enough to take them down to Last Stand and then through maxed Last Stand duration, and then to finish them off. That's just too much total time seeing as the AC is in cooldown before their Last Stand has finished, so then 3 of them firing root weapons at me will most definitely lock me and allow at least 2 of them (and probably all 3) to back-pedal to safety before I can move again, at which point I'm probably meched or about to be. Heh, I'll give it a go when the changes hit Last Stand, because I can never know for sure without trying, but honestly from RW experience I don't see this doing all that much to the serious Ares-trains. . This is the problem I have also. It’s last stand that makes it a problem for the exact reason you stated. Can’t last the 13 seconds! Rooted then toasted.
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kuto
GI. Patton
Posts: 139
Karma: 124
Pilot name: PUNISH€R
Platform: Android
League: Champion
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Post by kuto on Jul 11, 2019 19:52:49 GMT -5
Is there a full list of all these proposed changes somewhere? In the video shared by op
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Post by spartan44 on Jul 11, 2019 23:03:56 GMT -5
Not if you run head first, no ecu, from a distance away HB's have a normal running speed of 60 which goes up to 120 when its ability is active. Add Road Hog, Speed boosters, Speed modules (future), Adamant Road Hog... that thing will close the distance on an Ares quick. Charge an ares train.
Brilliant.
You'll be dead in 300m.
You damn Skippy. The hellburner will get vaporized trying to break up a train of 3 totally pimped out ares. Forget it. It's not gonna happen. These Ares are completely out of control. Factor in as well the tremendous boost that the squads get as they all run fully boosted. In squads, I've seen Ares moving at unbelievable speeds....at least 75 kph maybe a bit more. You can forget getting in there shield when they are that fast unless you play PERFECTLY. Ares needs a meaningful nerf not this softcore, mealy mouth, luke warm porige they are calling a nerf. Speed needs to be 50. Cool down 20 and the shield needs to only cover the bot itself. Anything short of this is a waste if time.
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Post by hon_shu on Jul 12, 2019 2:56:15 GMT -5
I feel they should just nerf the speed all the time myself. Why is a super uber god shield bot faster than a blitz and as fast as a hellburner and many other smaller weaker bots. LAME I also think the shield duration should be shortened and the cool down lengthened. This! How can Ares be faster than a Mender with road hog?
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Post by hon_shu on Jul 12, 2019 3:00:02 GMT -5
endyu : I know what your saying, but it sounds better in theory than it plays out in practice; I have disrupted them (with Blitz, Strider, and an underlevelled Hellburner) and have managed to break them up and even mech one or two on occasion, but it is not at all consistent or reliable, especially if they are semi-competent players. Also, as much as I may not want to admit it, the Ares-train beats me far more often than I beat them. There are a few problems when trying to take out an Ares train, the first is as Thunderkiss said the sheer amount of firepower they have available - so to counter that you are forced to have Last Stand (plus they likely have it as well); so with that equipped on Strider or HB you now only have 1 module slot left and that's for the AC mod; which is the next problem item... In its current state the AC mod is underwhelming (at least on the 3 bots I mentioned when facing Ares), especially when only 1 is equipped; the Blue flash will often happen at the early stages of your assault run, so by the time their Last Stand is ticking down your AC is in cooldown, they lock you and back-pedal away and then your Last Stand is over, as are you. Sure Blitz has that extra slot but it doesn't do you much good as the extra AC just decreases the CD, which still leaves you with a pitifully small period of LD immunity to get your ?dookie? done against multiple opponents. Perhaps if I maxed out my low level HB I'd do better, but I suspect not by much due to the issues above. As I said, sometimes it works out, sometimes they don't have Last Stand, sometimes they are so overconfident they don't notice a flanking attack until it's too late; but usually it doesn't work out all that well, especially playing amongst randoms who often fail to capitalise on any openings you force. Personally, for the cost of it (and because lockdown is such a BS mechanic anyway) I think the AC mod needs a serious buff, more like 10 seconds of immunity from the start of the Blue flash. Yes, LD is a much bigger problem than any Ares train
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Post by Munki on Jul 12, 2019 8:28:52 GMT -5
the speed of Hades and nemesis is already 52 km/h. Maybe they forgot it? The info I saw was from Islander's video which had the notes from the test server. I think the notes show how the bots will be on that server alone since it they get set to a fixed level. Just going by what was shown changed there. How much is added or reduced to the stats of the bots in the production servers is still an open question. We as a group do like to share our unvarnished opinions even on rumors. Guess we would just need to play the test server to see how things go but it is hard to compare to the same bots we run on the live servers.
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Post by Josiris on Jul 12, 2019 14:13:21 GMT -5
I feel that doing a speed reduction is to promote their current Anti-Control module and the upcoming Accelerator module. ?
To really solve the problem, just make the shield to how the lockdown and suppression effect is. Just mask over the whole bot with purple web-like shield. So there isn’t any way of doing Ares/Hades/Nemesis trains and AOE can still goes through the shield.
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Post by dom0aragato on Jul 12, 2019 14:13:32 GMT -5
Not a chance. 3 Ares is a RIDICULOUS amount of fire power.
Hellburner won't stand a chance. As it is a strider has to be so carefully played to get in, and even then it's not 100% effective, more like 50%-60%.
Not if you run head first, no ecu, from a distance away HB's have a normal running speed of 60 which goes up to 120 when its ability is active. Add Road Hog, Speed boosters, Speed modules (future), Adamant Road Hog... that thing will close the distance on an Ares quick. My lvl.12 hb with ancile, armor, ancile booster skill, and silver booster gets wrecked by two Ares let alone three or four. So many spark scourge Ares, ancile is about useless.
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Post by careyfan on Jul 12, 2019 17:25:04 GMT -5
I, for one, think that if the speed nerf hits, it’s really going to hurt the Ares.
Just as 3 man ares train requires teamwork to keep intact, so too will teamwork be required to bring it down. If people expect to solo run headfirst into a crowd of ares, they’re gonna die. This would also be tru if you were running headfirst into a pack of ao Juns, a pack of tyrs, etc.
But imagine a coordinated strike...a hell burner charging at 140+, an invader jumping in from the periphery, then boom! Ares train destroyed. Maybe all 3 ares dead, even. Game conditions vary greatly, of course. The point is that part of the power of the ares train is to move in sync at ridiculous speeds, backpedal to buy time, and then spam another shield when ready.
Speed nerf will turn a speedy swarm into something much mor manageable.
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Post by alpharius on Jul 12, 2019 18:10:41 GMT -5
Ellio War Robots forum!!!!! Been sometime since I’ve been on here or played but i’m Back. So as to this God bot i say it’s not enough, and my reason isn’t for my Main account running dash and inquis , no it’s for my apple account that has run into god bots in bronze and they proceed to crush anyone they see easily. And in the low leagues mid maxing is still very much a thing, reminds me of the old days with mid maxed rogs and geps.
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Post by linearblade on Jul 12, 2019 19:13:54 GMT -5
We should jump on the test server and do a 6 man Ares train to see if the nerf helps! LOL it will just move slower Is it me or does this make the ares trainer better? Now if doesn’t move away from the huddle as fast? And ares @ 45 = Bulwark/weyland/fenrir/lance/invader (not jumping)/raijin/bulg/haechi : still screwed Spectre/inquisitor/ : no change in effectiveness. Merc: slight buff Beneficiaries Burner / strider / blitz This “nerf” is moronic and half assed Not every one of these bots is top end (frankly none are), but everyone of these bots is champion level gear
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Post by linearblade on Jul 12, 2019 19:15:37 GMT -5
Oops sorry, I meant "yah if you run head first, no ecu from distance." You can get close and turn on your ability and charge the ares-train. The ECU will melt under a withering hail of retribution fire while the other 2 destroy whats left. Considering a single ares will slag a level 12 fenrir, I fail to see how am ecu will resist a single ares. Let alone 3. If anything, now nemesis and hades can participate in the train as well
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Post by linearblade on Jul 12, 2019 19:17:27 GMT -5
I, for one, think that if the speed nerf hits, it’s really going to hurt the Ares. Just as 3 man ares train requires teamwork to keep intact, so too will teamwork be required to bring it down. If people expect to solo run headfirst into a crowd of ares, they’re gonna die. This would also be tru if you were running headfirst into a pack of ao Juns, a pack of tyrs, etc. But imagine a coordinated strike...a hell burner charging at 140+, an invader jumping in from the periphery, then boom! Ares train destroyed. Maybe all 3 ares dead, even. Game conditions vary greatly, of course. The point is that part of the power of the ares train is to move in sync at ridiculous speeds, backpedal to buy time, and then spam another shield when ready. Speed nerf will turn a speedy swarm into something much mor manageable. Ares train will not be stopped. 45 is still faster than / fast as almost everything , and now the other lesser gods can keep up with the train, and can now even participate in it. This is not a nerf. It is a closet buff
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Post by spartan44 on Jul 12, 2019 20:58:47 GMT -5
They really need to remove the shield and replace it with "retribution armor". It still blocks everything and still absorbs incoming energy but it can't protect any other bot.
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Post by Curry Pot on Jul 12, 2019 21:31:17 GMT -5
Changing the shield to only cover the Ares isn't the best idea IMO since it means that the old trick getting inside it with Strider or Mercury won't be possible anymore. It'd be more balanced and look cooler if the shield had a flat cross section and only covered the frontal arc like the Lancelot's and Galahad's, but I'd imagine that that would be harder to implement.
A 25% speed reduction is hardly a nerf at all, and Ares trains are still easily run at 45 kph. The Ares' base speed shouldn't be more be that number, and now that the whales are already stirred up, there's no reason Pixo shouldn't go further and bring the bot into balance.
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Jul 12, 2019 23:09:15 GMT -5
With this tiny nerf, the Ares pilots will negate that with the soon to be launched Accelerator module. This means base speed goes up and purple shield almost no speed nerf.
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Post by linearblade on Jul 13, 2019 1:34:08 GMT -5
Changing the shield to only cover the Ares isn't the best idea IMO since it means that the old trick getting inside it with Strider or Mercury won't be possible anymore. It'd be more balanced and look cooler if the shield had a flat cross section and only covered the frontal arc like the Lancelot's and Galahad's, but I'd imagine that that would be harder to implement. A 25% speed reduction is hardly a nerf at all, and Ares trains are still easily run at 45 kph. The Ares' base speed shouldn't be more be that number, and now that the whales are already stirred up, there's no reason Pixo shouldn't go further and bring the bot into balance. Actually it’s a buff, the other bots will be able to keep up and contribute to the train now
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Post by The VVatcher on Jul 13, 2019 7:27:12 GMT -5
Honestly it looks pretty bad to me. 25% is pretty significant. I have an unleveled Cthulhu at base 48 kph and it’s very sluggish. I can’t imagine running shotguns on it anymore, and shotguns are the very thing that would protect it from fast bots that gets in the shield.
I think this is going to change things. At the very least, limit the weapons people can use on it. I won’t be surprised if selling Hussars and Marquis is part of Pix’s decision to nerf it this way.
One thing that won’t change is that it’s still an Ao Jun killer. But if the whales start switching to Ao Jun, it wouldn’t matter anyway if there are less of them on the field. So we have to see what happens.
I think they should’ve just change the shield bubble and kill the Aries train concept as everyone suggested. It’s should’ve been so simple.
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Post by Thunderkiss on Jul 13, 2019 8:10:28 GMT -5
I, for one, think that if the speed nerf hits, it’s really going to hurt the Ares. Just as 3 man ares train requires teamwork to keep intact, so too will teamwork be required to bring it down. If people expect to solo run headfirst into a crowd of ares, they’re gonna die. This would also be tru if you were running headfirst into a pack of ao Juns, a pack of tyrs, etc. But imagine a coordinated strike...a hell burner charging at 140+, an invader jumping in from the periphery, then boom! Ares train destroyed. Maybe all 3 ares dead, even. Game conditions vary greatly, of course. The point is that part of the power of the ares train is to move in sync at ridiculous speeds, backpedal to buy time, and then spam another shield when ready. Speed nerf will turn a speedy swarm into something much mor manageable. Not even close.
It's going to be a slower unmanageable train.
The speed nerf does nothing to undermine the inevitability of the whole mess.
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Post by hi5 on Jul 13, 2019 10:34:27 GMT -5
I think I see where Pixonic is coming from with this nerf. It's to make it easier for fast bots like the Pursuer, Strider, Blitz, Hellburner, etc to get inside the Ares bubble and kill it. Pixonic is trying a rock > paper > scissors type of balance: Ares > Ao Jun Ao Jun > Tanks Fast bots > Ares Tanks > Fast bots This can work, but they need to fix the bug where retribution does full damage to resistance bots (tanks) when charged up. The Ares cannot lose firepower, AJs would run rampant without Ares to keep them in check. At the same time, Ares needs a hard counter. I'm thinking that the logic behind this move is that Hellburners with AC module will be the hard counter for Ares-trains and fast bots will be workable counters. So we know from RW testing that retribution bypasses DR. Has pix publically acknowledged that or is it being saved for a silent nerf like pix is so fond of doing? New in v5.3 ... Also, misc other tweaks and bug fixes.This is my assumption, the the DR bypass “bug” is being kept in n their back pocket. Once Aries saturation is at full volume (I think we may be there now) they will nerf it slowly/multiple time vs one big Spec-like nerf to avoid to much anger/refund request and transition to the next meta push - tanks. Fixing the DR bypass bug will be the last nerf, and right now that’s the big thing holding back T-birds and Fenrirs. Aries and Ao Jun can take those down because of the bypass. Once they can’t, what builds can quickly kill a DR tank? Corrosion builds maybe?
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Post by Koko Bop on Jul 13, 2019 10:47:54 GMT -5
Does it really matter, when you drop to a field of 4 Ares and 2 Ember Ao Juns?
Game over in 3 min, Expert 1
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Jul 13, 2019 12:22:27 GMT -5
Honestly it looks pretty bad to me. 25% is pretty significant. I have an unleveled Cthulhu at base 48 kph and it’s very sluggish. I can’t imagine running shotguns on it anymore, and shotguns are the very thing that would protect it from fast bots that gets in the shield. I think this is going to change things. At the very least, limit the weapons people can use on it. I won’t be surprised if selling Hussars and Marquis is part of Pix’s decision to nerf it this way. One thing that won’t change is that it’s still an Ao Jun killer. But if the whales start switching to Ao Jun, it wouldn’t matter anyway if there are less of them on the field. So we have to see what happens. I think they should’ve just change the shield bubble and kill the Aries train concept as everyone suggested. It’s should’ve been so simple. Reducing the shield bubble is a bad idea. I see that as a buff as there is no counter to it when shield is up.
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Post by mechtout on Jul 13, 2019 12:28:43 GMT -5
Pixonic wants you to spend on your phase shift module to escape back to safety.
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Post by unclescary on Jul 13, 2019 17:58:38 GMT -5
None of these changes mean a damn thing until Pixonic fixes the damn matchmaker. Even if I make it inside an Ares shield, my level 9 pursuer can't kill a mark 2 level 12 Ares before it kills me.
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