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Post by jazzykat on Mar 6, 2017 14:30:52 GMT -5
I am currently working towards a 12/12 hangar and currently have an 8/8 RDB Griff. Obviously it would be much cheaper for me to get that to 12/12 than to save up for the Fury and upgrade it and the Tridents. However, when I look at the top 50 players, most have a TT Fury and I didn't see any with a RDB (so my question might be answered already).
Bonus question, will the new moon map possibly change your answer?
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Post by Feezou on Mar 6, 2017 14:49:35 GMT -5
Well you have the painful reloads for the Griffin, you get more damage out of it. On the other hand, the TT Fury has 100m more range, so you can stay at a safe distance from certain weapons. It also has the crazy splash damage. So it's your choice. One thing you'll get from the TT Fury is Mid Range Meta hate.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 6, 2017 14:53:23 GMT -5
No, RDB is not a cheap TT Fury. However, I don't think they should be comparable as they are used very differently.
If anything, the Natasha with dual Tridents and 2 CRVs, 2 Molots, 2 Gekkos, or even 2 Spirals are more directly comparable.
IMO, if you wanted a cheap TT Fury, go Tasha with Tridents and 2 Molots. The Molots give you the flexibility to make opposing TT Furies or Zeus Furies to move from their best firing positions and to actually hurt them enough that they have to hide from you --- which hides your teammates from them as well. Once a TT Fury is behind cover, you'll win the Trident dual with them, as you can hit them before they get LOS on you.
The good thing about the Tasha setup is that you will know if a TT is good for you if you can make the Tasha perform --- cause if you can't then it's a good indicator of what to expect with a Fury.
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Post by amoebastudios on Mar 6, 2017 14:55:54 GMT -5
I don't really like to say that you get more damage out of the Griffin. The pin and tulu are on different cycles. Maximizing the damage output means that you have to expose yourself twice to fire the pin and tulu as they become available. Otherwise, you have to wait for the tulu to reload so you can fire a full volley while minimizing exposure.
If you wait for a full reload then the damage will be less than the the trident fury. This is what I struggle with, the cycle time difference of Grif.
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 6, 2017 15:05:43 GMT -5
No, but a Molot Griffin is. The problem is, everyone is looking for a counter to the TT Fury that is ALSO better than every other bot on the field. This isn't, and shouldn't be the case.
If you want to focus on being able to take out TT Furies, you just aren't going to have an advantage over the rest of the field. The reason being, TT Furies are very different than the majority of the rest of the bots in the field. That is why most of your setups work against most of your opponents, because they all have similar weaknesses. The TT Fury has a different weakness, and to exploit that weakness, you'll be giving up the ability to exploit weaknesses in the rest of the field.
You're looking for an overpowered solution to a bot that isn't overpowered. Just be smart and don't expect the best of both worlds. This game is well balanced, and there aren't many "best of both worlds" situations available. That's a good thing.
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Post by jazzykat on Mar 6, 2017 15:12:47 GMT -5
No, but a Molot Griffin is. The problem is, everyone is looking for a counter to the TT Fury that is ALSO better than every other bot on the field. This isn't, and shouldn't be the case. If you want to focus on being able to take out TT Furies, you just aren't going to have an advantage over the rest of the field. The reason being, TT Furies are very different than the majority of the rest of the bots in the field. That is why most of your setups work against most of your opponents, because they all have similar weaknesses. The TT Fury has a different weakness, and to exploit that weakness, you'll be giving up the ability to exploit weaknesses in the rest of the field. You're looking for an overpowered solution to a bot that isn't overpowered. Just be smart and don't expect the best of both worlds. This game is well balanced, and there aren't many "best of both worlds" situations available. That's a good thing. Maybe that is what I want subconsciously. In my experience my RDB is failing miserably compared to TT Furies. It seemed that even my rocket Golem was racking up more kills with it's trident, so I was wondering if I needed to save up the 5k for the fury or if I can get similar performance. From the initial responses the answer seems to be a resounding "No".
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 6, 2017 15:18:35 GMT -5
No, but a Molot Griffin is. The problem is, everyone is looking for a counter to the TT Fury that is ALSO better than every other bot on the field. This isn't, and shouldn't be the case. If you want to focus on being able to take out TT Furies, you just aren't going to have an advantage over the rest of the field. The reason being, TT Furies are very different than the majority of the rest of the bots in the field. That is why most of your setups work against most of your opponents, because they all have similar weaknesses. The TT Fury has a different weakness, and to exploit that weakness, you'll be giving up the ability to exploit weaknesses in the rest of the field. You're looking for an overpowered solution to a bot that isn't overpowered. Just be smart and don't expect the best of both worlds. This game is well balanced, and there aren't many "best of both worlds" situations available. That's a good thing. Maybe that is what I want subconsciously. In my experience my RDB is failing miserably compared to TT Furies. It seemed that even my rocket Golem was racking up more kills with it's trident, so I was wondering if I needed to save up the 5k for the fury or if I can get similar performance. From the initial responses the answer seems to be a resounding "No". The RDB fails because nothing about it is designed to take on a TT Fury. The 100m of range difference allows the Fury to get two salvos into you before you can finally get one in. If you want to beat a bot that performs because of its range, you need a bot with more range, not just closer to its range. Then you fall into the tradeoff. You can beat TT Furies with ease, but the other bots gain an edge over you. You need to make a decision there, and with every situation. Pixonic doesn't give you the OP option you're looking for.
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Post by Feezou on Mar 6, 2017 15:22:34 GMT -5
<snip> If you want to focus on being able to take out TT Furies, you just aren't going to have an advantage over the rest of the field. The reason being, TT Furies are very different than the majority of the rest of the bots in the field. That is why most of your setups work against most of your opponents, because they all have similar weaknesses. The TT Fury has a different weakness, and to exploit that weakness, you'll be giving up the ability to exploit weaknesses in the rest of the field. <snip> Ancile is a decent counter.
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Post by blastronaut on Mar 6, 2017 16:25:22 GMT -5
Also nobody wants to fight TT furies with TT furies. But as said earlier, try out the Natasha with Tridents/Molots to see if you like the point and click gameplay of TT Fury before buying one.
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Post by jazzykat on Mar 6, 2017 17:27:44 GMT -5
Maybe that is what I want subconsciously. In my experience my RDB is failing miserably compared to TT Furies. It seemed that even my rocket Golem was racking up more kills with it's trident, so I was wondering if I needed to save up the 5k for the fury or if I can get similar performance. From the initial responses the answer seems to be a resounding "No". The RDB fails because nothing about it is designed to take on a TT Fury. The 100m of range difference allows the Fury to get two salvos into you before you can finally get one in. If you want to beat a bot that performs because of its range, you need a bot with more range, not just closer to its range. Then you fall into the tradeoff. You can beat TT Furies with ease, but the other bots gain an edge over you. You need to make a decision there, and with every situation. Pixonic doesn't give you the OP option you're looking for. I'm still not effectively communicating. I have 1 mid-range slot to fill. Currently I use a RDB. All of the Top Tier Hangars seem to use a TT Fury. I am asking if there is any midranger better than the TT Fury because I don't want to save up and have to buy one. I am not trying to kill other Furies I want to know if there is any bot/setup better for the mid-range.
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Post by amoebastudios on Mar 6, 2017 17:40:21 GMT -5
RDB is good. Stick with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 17:54:33 GMT -5
No. After I bought a Fury, I never touched my Russian Griffin again.
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Post by mijapi300 on Mar 6, 2017 17:57:36 GMT -5
The RDB fails because nothing about it is designed to take on a TT Fury. The 100m of range difference allows the Fury to get two salvos into you before you can finally get one in. If you want to beat a bot that performs because of its range, you need a bot with more range, not just closer to its range. Then you fall into the tradeoff. You can beat TT Furies with ease, but the other bots gain an edge over you. You need to make a decision there, and with every situation. Pixonic doesn't give you the OP option you're looking for. I'm still not effectively communicating. I have 1 mid-range slot to fill. Currently I use a RDB. All of the Top Tier Hangars seem to use a TT Fury. I am asking if there is any midranger better than the TT Fury because I don't want to save up and have to buy one. I am not trying to kill other Furies I want to know if there is any bot/setup better for the mid-range. Oh okay, that makes more sense now. And no, there isn't a better pure mid range setup. The RDB isn't a bad option at all, which is why you still see some. But the TT Fury is the endgame if you're looking specifically at midrange.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 6, 2017 18:28:46 GMT -5
The RDB fails because nothing about it is designed to take on a TT Fury. The 100m of range difference allows the Fury to get two salvos into you before you can finally get one in. If you want to beat a bot that performs because of its range, you need a bot with more range, not just closer to its range. Then you fall into the tradeoff. You can beat TT Furies with ease, but the other bots gain an edge over you. You need to make a decision there, and with every situation. Pixonic doesn't give you the OP option you're looking for. I'm still not effectively communicating. I have 1 mid-range slot to fill. Currently I use a RDB. All of the Top Tier Hangars seem to use a TT Fury. I am asking if there is any midranger better than the TT Fury because I don't want to save up and have to buy one. I am not trying to kill other Furies I want to know if there is any bot/setup better for the mid-range. The mid-range meta (TT Fury) will most likely changing with the introduction of the Dash and the Heavy Molot. Pix has stated that the Heavy Molot is back on the table and this weapon will allow many platforms to credibly carry it that will allow them to outperform a TT Fury and even a triple Heavy Molot Fury --- specifically the Raijin, Carnage, and even the Lancelot. With the Dash, it would be difficult to keep away this bot from getting close to Furies (aside from what some pilots have said that the Dash is easy to kill with a TT or Zeus Fury - complete rubbish). That being said, I'd keep your RBD in service or make it a Quad Molot Griffin --- either setups are superior setups until the Heavy Molot or Dash get here. So just hold tight, use these Griffibs and save that Au till then.
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karljackson
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Post by karljackson on Mar 6, 2017 18:31:29 GMT -5
Zues Molot Tasha is decently well rounded. Two Zues have decent DPS and the Molots are good at moving other midrange bots off their mark. Plus both can hit a jumping Griffin, something you'll see a lot of in higher leagues.
Not saying it's comparable to a TT Fury, just a fairly useful midrange option. If used properly...
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Post by CrownBlack on Mar 6, 2017 19:00:15 GMT -5
I am currently working towards a 12/12 hangar and currently have an 8/8 RDB Griff. Obviously it would be much cheaper for me to get that to 12/12 than to save up for the Fury and upgrade it and the Tridents. However, when I look at the top 50 players, most have a TT Fury and I didn't see any with a RDB (so my question might be answered already). Bonus question, will the new moon map possibly change your answer? I checked out the TOP league guys and all run TT Fury so I am on the same page as you. I have two tridents now and will get the last one once I get closer to 5k au. Now if the change the tulumbas the be like orks then that would change this plan some. At this time it is the best mid ranger because of the firepower
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Post by wannabetoughguy on Mar 6, 2017 19:42:43 GMT -5
No, I eat molot and TT Fury' alive with my hydra/aphid Griff.
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Post by jazzykat on Mar 6, 2017 19:46:21 GMT -5
No, I eat molot and TT Fury' alive with my hydra/aphid Griff. Is that meant to be a troll or are you serious?
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 6, 2017 20:27:10 GMT -5
No. After I bought a Fury, I never touched my Russian Griffin again. same here. but in small map like PP and DC rdb griffins are more useful. im still planning to max my rdb someday.. someday..
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Post by BLYTHE on Mar 6, 2017 21:35:36 GMT -5
The fury's not great on maps like DC and PP. Recently I've been taking out the RDB more since it's less map-dependent and an absolute killer on maps that would hinder the Fury.
When I play the fury I usually skip those maps during countdown. Now if we start getting penalized for skipping maps (regardless of time) then I anticipate more people will use the RDB.
Some people have reported getting demerits for skipping; would be good to get confirmation from Pix as this would change the way people configure their hangar.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 6, 2017 21:42:32 GMT -5
Some people have reported getting demerits for skipping; would be good to get confirmation from Pix as this would change the way people configure their hangar. so far i didn't experience getting penalty for leaving a map. i just leave asap if i dont like it. some guys maybe just unlucky there are no other pilot available to replace them
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Post by BLYTHE on Mar 6, 2017 21:46:19 GMT -5
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 6, 2017 22:45:07 GMT -5
Some people have reported getting demerits for skipping; would be good to get confirmation from Pix as this would change the way people configure their hangar. so far i didn't experience getting penalty for leaving a map. i just leave asap if i dont like it. some guys maybe just unlucky there are no other pilot available to replace them Yes, I can confirm 100% that you can get a -20 point hit for leaving a match before it officially starts on matches that your team loses ---- but only on certain matches (read on). Have you ever entered a match (i.e. not skipping it) in the first few seconds (like there's 10-12 seconds left on the start timer), but after your bot lands you find the match had already started? To clarify, this is different from the matches at you find ALREADY started as soon as the map opens (which you HAVE to play else be guaranteed a -20 if your team loses). The matches that I mentioned first are stealth starts and they are matches you think haven't started yet, but they are no different from the ones that drop you in an already active match. I've gotten -20 points knocked off my total after skipping matches that clearly had not started yet if I went strictly by the start timer and it appears that maybe one in 10 early exits is one of these stealth starts. I now play every map, but this is not enjoyable to me to waste time on low silver producing maps. I may end up just going back to skipping through maps again and not care about the league ranking, as Pixonic will be implementing large changes to it anyhow.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 6, 2017 22:58:01 GMT -5
so far i didn't experience getting penalty for leaving a map. i just leave asap if i dont like it. some guys maybe just unlucky there are no other pilot available to replace them Yes, I can confirm 100% that you can get a -20 point hit for leaving a match before it officially starts on matches that your team loses ---- but only on certain matches (read on). Have you ever entered a match (i.e. not skipping it) in the first few seconds (like there's 10-12 seconds left on the start timer), but after your bot lands you find the match had already started? To clarify, this is different from the matches at you find ALREADY started as soon as the map opens (which you HAVE to play else be guaranteed a -20 if your team loses). The matches that I mentioned first are stealth starts and they are matches you think haven't started yet, but they are no different from the ones that drop you in an already active match. I've gotten -20 points knocked off my total after skipping matches that clearly had not started yet if I went strictly by the start timer and it appears that maybe one in 10 early exits is one of these stealth starts. I now play every map, but this is not enjoyable to me to waste time on low silver producing maps. I may end up just going back to skipping through maps again and not care about the league ranking, as Pixonic will be implementing large changes to it anyhow. so far i havent encounter that on android, i only play on PP and DC. my bots are setup only for this 2 map. i will try to monitor my cups later. and oh... who the hell cares about league if i got plenty of cup deduction then good luck to silver guys facing my 9/12 hangar
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Post by BLYTHE on Mar 6, 2017 23:06:51 GMT -5
who the hell cares about league if i got plenty of cup deduction then good luck to silver guys facing my 9/12 hangar LOL. So true.
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Post by themadmac on Mar 6, 2017 23:20:02 GMT -5
Molots counter TT fury a good team will come after you though. I hate protect the fury games on canyon in solo matches.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 6, 2017 23:29:38 GMT -5
so far i didn't experience getting penalty for leaving a map. i just leave asap if i dont like it. some guys maybe just unlucky there are no other pilot available to replace them Yes, I can confirm 100% that you can get a -20 point hit for leaving a match before it officially starts on matches that your team loses ---- but only on certain matches (read on). just update, my cups 3321. after my last post i open the app and leave 3 match. i didnt drop my bot i just leave as soon as i saw the map. i close the app and open again after 11 mins (im sure those 3 match are finish) so far my cups are the same, thou im not sure if those 3 match are all win by the blue team..
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 7, 2017 0:25:35 GMT -5
Yes, I can confirm 100% that you can get a -20 point hit for leaving a match before it officially starts on matches that your team loses ---- but only on certain matches (read on). just update, my cups 3321. after my last post i open the app and leave 3 match. i didnt drop my bot i just leave as soon as i saw the map. i close the app and open again after 11 mins (im sure those 3 match are finish) so far my cups are the same, thou im not sure if those 3 match are all win by the blue team.. The stealth start only occurs once every 10 matches from what I've seen --- I'm on iOS. That's not a lot and a loss is not guaranteed. Try doing something like 25 matches where you leave in under 5 seconds each (ie well before the game start timer of 15 seconds is up) see if your league score stays the same ----- mine didn't, it went down 40 points when I tested this.
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Post by Heishiro on Mar 7, 2017 0:36:35 GMT -5
just update, my cups 3321. after my last post i open the app and leave 3 match. i didnt drop my bot i just leave as soon as i saw the map. i close the app and open again after 11 mins (im sure those 3 match are finish) so far my cups are the same, thou im not sure if those 3 match are all win by the blue team.. The stealth start only occurs once every 10 matches from what I've seen --- I'm on iOS. That's not a lot and a loss is not guaranteed. Try doing something like 25 matches where you leave in under 5 seconds each (ie well before the game start timer of 15 seconds is up) see if your league score stays the same ----- mine didn't, it went down 40 points when I tested this. i played some games this lunch break, i leave around 12 games because i only choose the PP and DC map. so far no cup deduction for leaving the game. i left as soon as i saw the map still 12 secs left most of the time. maybe you wait too long to leave the match, and MM already cant find other player to replace you.
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Post by Team Alpha Strike on Mar 7, 2017 0:44:24 GMT -5
The stealth start only occurs once every 10 matches from what I've seen --- I'm on iOS. That's not a lot and a loss is not guaranteed. Try doing something like 25 matches where you leave in under 5 seconds each (ie well before the game start timer of 15 seconds is up) see if your league score stays the same ----- mine didn't, it went down 40 points when I tested this. i played some games this lunch break, i leave around 12 games because i only choose the PP and DC map. so far no cup deduction for leaving the game. i left as soon as i saw the map still 12 secs left most of the time. maybe you wait too long to leave the match, and MM already cant find other player to replace you. That's the thing, I made sure I left all my matches with at least 10-12 seconds left. I basucallt left the matches as soon as the map was revealed and I was sure the game had not already started. No match had a timer count under 10 seconds - that matches that jumped from 14 or 15 secinds and then down to under 5 seconds on the timer I simply played.
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