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Post by BLYTHE on Feb 21, 2017 1:06:13 GMT -5
With all the dictionary references here, no one bothered with the entry from Urban Dictionary?
Cheating
worst thing in the world.. breaks peoples hearts, and once you've done it sometimes you wish you hadn't or if it happens to you, you want to flip out and you get the worst feeling that there is... not a good thing.
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Post by spawnreaper on Feb 21, 2017 1:14:44 GMT -5
With all the dictionary references here, no one bothered with the entry from Urban Dictionary? Cheating worst thing in the world.. breaks peoples hearts, and once you've done it sometimes you wish you hadn't or if it happens to you, you want to flip out and you get the worst feeling that there is... not a good thing. /hug Hey you want to fix tanking join a active clan and group with them. Haven't had a problem with tankers on our side all night.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 2:18:32 GMT -5
I love tankers, they improve my win percentage in the negative direction
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Post by SlowReflexes on Feb 21, 2017 2:23:03 GMT -5
With all the dictionary references here, no one bothered with the entry from Urban Dictionary? Cheating worst thing in the world.. breaks peoples hearts, and once you've done it sometimes you wish you hadn't or if it happens to you, you want to flip out and you get the worst feeling that there is... not a good thing. Yeah but War Robots doesn't have a cute roomate or a sweet younger sister to, um, game with. So we're not cheating.
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Post by HEATHEN HERETIC on Feb 21, 2017 2:24:16 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that tanking hurts those playing the game around you, both on the way down and on the way back up. As such I consider it cheating the system and poor sportsmanship. I also consider a game won too easily to be no fun. (Having been on a squad side against reds with three tankers). So yes, I vote cheating. I think that is referred to as ditching. Tanking is LOWERING your damage output in the battle usually by capping beacons only (and sometimes standing idle) Ditching is intentionally leaving matches after you shot a bit at the enemy or capped a beacon. Wait, Pixonic purposely creates these situations by the way you're describing "tanking". Because just today I had to drop all of my mediums and heavies to pack in lights to go after 45 beacons in one challenge and 18 in another. Sometimes it just wants you to kill so many enemy bots in a light bot. Lost a great number of matches and of course my damage and kill percentages plummeted dramatically as a result of the low amount of damage a light can do comparatively. Won a lot more matches when I dropped a light and added a taran-magnum Griffin. But it still affected my overall game scores. If Pixonic is issuing these types of challenges it actually forces higher level players to do as I do. If that's what tanking is then I have to vote No, it's definitely not cheating. It's not even unethical. It's just part of the game. It is however something only Pixonic can fix by not throwing higher leveled players in with lower leveled players. In my last match I was checking the ranks of other players because it seemed to me that my Griffin was totally outmatching the competition. It totally was. And I found I was playing against 2-21 leveled players while I am leveled to 30. Not much fun when you can obliterate a players Nat or Leo in less than 7 seconds. My Griffen carrys 2 tarans at 6 and 2 magnums at 7. So if I drop my Griffen and added another Destier I'll just be exasperating the predicament by lowering my scores even more. Catch 22 or damned if you do or damned if you don't. I guess I'm going to be damned because I want to win the challenges. I need the gold and the workshop chips.
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RΛИDØM
Destrier
iOS - clan BMF
Posts: 91
Karma: 77
Pilot name: RANDOM
Platform: iOS
Clan: BMF
League: Top
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Post by RΛИDØM on Feb 21, 2017 2:40:18 GMT -5
No - tanking is not cheating. Maybe Pixonic will update the rules at some point in the future to prevent it or ban it - until then not cheating. Im against sensoring of information and opinions both for and against tanking. Maybe make a separate section of the forum for it an ask that it only be discussed in that section.
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hithere
Destrier
Posts: 48
Karma: 18
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Post by hithere on Feb 21, 2017 4:13:55 GMT -5
No
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Feb 21, 2017 4:19:44 GMT -5
No - tanking is not cheating. Maybe Pixonic will update the rules at some point in the future to prevent it or ban it - until then not cheating. Im against sensoring of information and opinions both for and against tanking. Maybe make a separate section of the forum for it an ask that it only be discussed in that section. Agreed, just set up a 'Complaints' section, where none of the posts go towards your total post count. dont even bother monitering it, every thread will just be a total 「dookie」-storm. (So, its pretty much an unmoniterd rants section, where logic goes to die)
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Post by SATmaster728 on Feb 21, 2017 7:34:53 GMT -5
cheat t?i?t/ verb verb: cheat; 3rd person present: cheats; past tense: cheated; past participle: cheated; gerund or present participle: cheating 1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. "she always cheats at cards"
exploit verb verb: exploit; 3rd person present: exploits; past tense: exploited; past participle: exploited; gerund or present participle: exploiting ?k?spl??t,?k?spl??t/ 2. make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand. "the company was exploiting a legal loophole"
Mhm, absolutely, with out a doubt different. making use of a situation to unfairly benifit and acting unfair, to, wait for it, benefit are waaaaay different. I mean, as if tanking is making use of a situation to benefit, or acting unfairly to gain an advantage, bah!for all of those still debating if tanking is cheating, i quoted my post. Tanking is considered an exploit, yes? this post explains exploting and cheating are more or less the same, so.....argument finished, good day to you all! this is the same thing that happened to the are gepard clubbers cheating. The underlying issue is that people choose to do this. Do you have to do this to win? No. Will this help you? Yes, but at the cost of others. The same could be said for gepard clubbers. I cannot see why no one else is drawing comparisons to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 7:37:02 GMT -5
Yeah. And thats another point. Blame is on Pix and they better sort this out FAST, bc to be honest I can understand tankers more than the Gep Clubbers of the old days (which, tbh were a nuisance in one out of ten games maybe - tankers by now appear nearly every game. Both those that ditch and the 1 million damage guy with 30% winrate and 200k avg dmg). Somebody produced a completely ?firetruck?ed up matchmaking that actually gives you the stick if you play well and fight it out, and rewards those bigtime who basically screw every teammember. See this is the REAL difference that all the seal clubbing was okay, but tanking was bad. When we had seal clubbers it only affected the newbies not themselves and they might even have clubbed with impunity. Now the tanking AFFECTS them. Now they're up in arms.... bloody hypocrites... The new matchmaker is better than the old one. Take it from a 'grown' seal who used to get clubbed constantly. I like the new matchmaker tremendously. Dejnov. I dunno why you fullquoted me to make that statement, tbh. I never clubbed... (nor tanked) But...ehm...its always an honour to serve a purpose *bows* And its great that the new MM lets me blow up a few Geps sometimes - only thay doesnt happen very often ( or they are blue... and then they ditch...). Its also great if you found your sweet spot in the MM. I just hope that the leagues settle it down a bit for me because I am just very tired of my good ol' 9/9.5 - 10 getting torn apart by 12/12 Fury duos. My Boas could shoot back at Geps at least a bit...:/
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Post by launchpad on Feb 21, 2017 7:47:43 GMT -5
This is a funny topic. If it is cheating, people doing it will be banned.
Tough trying to looks neutral, in actual this thread only looks for justification in declaring tanking is cheating. Rallying the support of the masses.
Lol
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Post by ♧SGT FURY 24/7♧ on Feb 21, 2017 7:50:08 GMT -5
In life there is a difference between "right/wrong" and "legal/illegal". Somethings that are wrong are legal, and there are things that are right that are illegal.
Same thing with tanking. It's not illegal, but I think it's wrong.
Clubbing was legal and right, btw all you whiners :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 8:02:39 GMT -5
This is a funny topic. If it is cheating, people doing it will be banned. This is the worst explanation ever. So an aimbot and a wallhack are totally not cheating unless a developer brings in anti-cheat tools to detect them? Its pretty much the same with abusing a system, especially because tankers are looked at by Pix already. To be honest I dont care if its called "cheating" or "beeing a looser" (with gamers I know/ play with those mean pretty much the same) - as long as this "not very creative exploit of a system" is fixed. Even leave it in the forums, whatever. This "info" obviously spread faster than the fact that zenit/nori tashas aint the best idea...
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Post by Dredd77 on Feb 21, 2017 8:10:01 GMT -5
This is a funny topic. If it is cheating, people doing it will be banned. Tough trying to looks neutral, in actual this thread only looks for justification in declaring tanking is cheating. Rallying the support of the masses. Lol This insightful bit of deduction fails to take into account that in actual fact, no justification is needed. If admin wanted it banned from discussion, it would be. No need to launch some bogus grassroots effort. Occam's razor, and all that.
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tttt
Destrier
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Post by tttt on Feb 21, 2017 8:11:10 GMT -5
I played a game last night with 5 on blue and only 3 on red. Saw at least on of red jump out - not sure if others did. Whatever you want to call it, that seems to be a problem
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Post by Cdr. Crimmins on Feb 21, 2017 8:12:16 GMT -5
In life there is a difference between "right/wrong" and "legal/illegal". Somethings that are wrong are legal, and there are things that are right that are illegal. Same thing with tanking. It's not illegal, but I think it's wrong. Clubbing was legal and right, btw all you whiners :-) I agree with you except for that last line there. Clubbing, in my opinion, was legal and wrong as well. To this day my son, 9 & autistic, who introduced me to this game last July, refers to geps as 'cheater robots' whenever he sees one. Of course that also meant his proudest kills were when he reduced one to a flaming wreck, heh. For the record he runs a mixed 6/6 hangar.
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Post by Mechronis on Feb 21, 2017 8:44:37 GMT -5
Haha. Yeah.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Feb 21, 2017 8:45:54 GMT -5
In life there is a difference between "right/wrong" and "legal/illegal". Somethings that are wrong are legal, and there are things that are right that are illegal. Same thing with tanking. It's not illegal, but I think it's wrong. Clubbing was legal and right, btw all you whiners :-) I agree with you except for that last line there. Clubbing, in my opinion, was legal and wrong as well. To this day my son, 9 & autistic, who introduced me to this game last July, refers to geps as 'cheater robots' whenever he sees one. Of course that also meant his proudest kills were when he reduced one to a flaming wreck, heh. For the record he runs a mixed 6/6 hangar. Does he run on android? If so, I habe a clan for him.
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Post by launchpad on Feb 21, 2017 9:50:39 GMT -5
This is a funny topic. If it is cheating, people doing it will be banned. This is the worst explanation ever. So an aimbot and a wallhack are totally not cheating unless a developer brings in anti-cheat tools to detect them? Its pretty much the same with abusing a system, especially because tankers are looked at by Pix already. To be honest I dont care if its called "cheating" or "beeing a looser" (with gamers I know/ play with those mean pretty much the same) - as long as this "not very creative exploit of a system" is fixed. Even leave it in the forums, whatever. This "info" obviously spread faster than the fact that zenit/nori tashas aint the best idea... You clearly missing the point. Why drag developer into this "building public opinion" things? Just because someone said someone in developer is looking into things? Are you sure that's not a standard customer service in receiving complaints? "Thank you for your concern, we shall investigate this matter". Lol. You are a funny guy
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Post by launchpad on Feb 21, 2017 10:34:07 GMT -5
This is a funny topic. If it is cheating, people doing it will be banned. Tough trying to looks neutral, in actual this thread only looks for justification in declaring tanking is cheating. Rallying the support of the masses. Lol This insightful bit of deduction fails to take into account that in actual fact, no justification is needed. If admin wanted it banned from discussion, it would be. No need to launch some bogus grassroots effort. Occam's razor, and all that. First of all, apology to moderator if I offend anyone. I tend to hit the nerve with logical straightforwardness. Occupational hazard. As the saying goes, "power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely", surely nobody mind being a dictator but nobody wants to be viewed as one. Especially when you have "developer insider" as an important point. By the way, I like your signature "why need 5th hanger if you didn't expect to die 4 times?". It would surely hit the nerve of those keeping rule of thumb of "hanger first bot later" doctrine and defend it to the death. Please do not correlate this into "why discuss the issue if developer didn't even care?". I'm not interested in making and/or leading public opinion regarding "tanking". Just enjoy it. Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 11:46:50 GMT -5
This is the worst explanation ever. So an aimbot and a wallhack are totally not cheating unless a developer brings in anti-cheat tools to detect them? Its pretty much the same with abusing a system, especially because tankers are looked at by Pix already. To be honest I dont care if its called "cheating" or "beeing a looser" (with gamers I know/ play with those mean pretty much the same) - as long as this "not very creative exploit of a system" is fixed. Even leave it in the forums, whatever. This "info" obviously spread faster than the fact that zenit/nori tashas aint the best idea... You clearly missing the point. Why drag developer into this "building public opinion" things? Just because someone said someone in developer is looking into things? Are you sure that's not a standard customer service in receiving complaints? "Thank you for your concern, we shall investigate this matter". Lol. You are a funny guy Ehm, you are a pretty "funny" guy with your "public opinion"...ehm... "opinion". This is a relatively small forum for a nice little mobile game... Unbelievable enough I witnessed many online games that rolled out balancing patches- asking a community doesnt mean someones gathering torches and pitchforks. Its nobody in danger here. While a few here are actually in contact with Pix, this is not a campaign...(if it would, it officially would be legit due to votes... you did read more than one page?) The Mods wanted arguments how it should be handled HERE. On the other hand you didnt contribute a single valid point (YOU brought the devs into it and if Id see Dredd swinging a Hammer creating flashes in the nightskies and igniting someone id considered your quote meaningful), instead claiming how smart you are and bragging at your general appearance (like, in your eyes...). These symptoms seem famous these days... Edit: but its funny to see a convinced tanker constructing strawmen. Have fun with the leagues - looks like you have a lot of ditching ahead of you to compensate for your lack of skill. Will make you SAD!... Lmao
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 21, 2017 11:59:52 GMT -5
So far, the general consensus is that we do not want to endorse tanking, as it has been defined in this and other threads, as a valid strategy, to newcomers and old hats, alike. That wasn't the question being asked. The question was "Is Tanking Cheating?" and by my tally so far the majority agree that tanking is not cheating (41 No votes VS 17 Yes votes). I don't know what the admins are planning on doing with this information. But it is my belief that a wiki should be an unbiased source of useful information for everyone covering a wide variety of topics. Obviously guides on how to use hacks or abuse bugs should not be permitted. However hacking is not needed to tank, and I'm not aware of any bugs in the MM code that can be used to alter a player's rating. This is the OP question with all the context: My post was absolutely in line with the question, especially as a whole and not just the one sentence that you quoted.
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Post by [AurN]Zenotaph on Feb 21, 2017 12:13:07 GMT -5
It isn't cheating, but it is despicable. I woudn't do it, even when pix would say, it is ok.
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werdnathered
Destrier
Posts: 29
Karma: 19
Pilot name: WerdnaTheRed
Platform: Android
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Taranasaurus (Rogatka with Tarans)
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Post by werdnathered on Feb 21, 2017 12:15:32 GMT -5
Well, I may as well add my two cents to this. Tanking is, as I understand it, intentionally dealing less damage in a match in order to make matchups more favorable to you. I've seen this in two varieties: simply standing in spawn or not even dropping a bot in, or equipping shields to all bots and focusing on beacon dominance.
As much as I strongly dislike the former variant and tolerate the latter, the morality involved is not the focus of this. Tanking as I understand it is not cheating, but I feel it should be frowned upon in general.
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Post by Trogon on Feb 21, 2017 12:29:12 GMT -5
The problem really is that this idiocrazy of a Matchmaker encourages this behaviour. I run a 9/10 (some 9 weps too) with ~450k avg dmg and ~65% winrate (down from over 80) - last two games (right now, closed game after) I faced a solid 12/12 fury/ ancilot front happily stomping me and my teammates (half of my team had 4 slots). I dont know how long I wanna cope with this ?poo-poo?. I am opposed to "hard" tanking - deliberately dropping way below where you should be in order to beat up on lowly opponents - and would vote that YES that is cheating. But what @klatschkater describes is the real problem imo - maybe this is the reason some people draw a distinction between hard tanking vs smurfing? I hope this doesn't make me any enemies, but if I am in multiple matches in a row with maxed opponents/teammates, which is basically the MM ruining MY game experience, I may on occasion engage in what might be considered smurfing (not trying as hard, not using every bot) hoping for a few losses to get my perf rating down a bit to get me and my 8/8s out of max land. If that makes me a "tanker" in some peoples' eyes, I guess I'll have to live with that.
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 21, 2017 12:37:06 GMT -5
The problem really is that this idiocrazy of a Matchmaker encourages this behaviour. I run a 9/10 (some 9 weps too) with ~450k avg dmg and ~65% winrate (down from over 80) - last two games (right now, closed game after) I faced a solid 12/12 fury/ ancilot front happily stomping me and my teammates (half of my team had 4 slots). I dont know how long I wanna cope with this ?poo-poo?. I am opposed to "hard" tanking - deliberately dropping way below where you should be in order to beat up on lowly opponents - but this right here is the problem. I guess that what @klatschkater describes maybe is the reason some people draw a distinction between hard tanking vs smurfing? I hope this doesn't make me any enemies, but if I am in multiple matches in a row with maxed opponents/teammates, which is basically the MM ruining MY game experience, I may on occasion engage in smurfing (not trying as hard, not using every bot) hoping for a few losses to get my perf rating down a bit to get me and my 8/8s out of max land. If that makes me a "tanker" in some peoples' eyes, I guess I'll have to live with that. It is not the same thing. Tanking, by most people's agreement, is either dropping in, grabbing a beacon or doing very minimal damage, then quitting, or sitting in a corner somewhere filling up a spot on the team with an empty shell. As far as smurfing, that is a slippery slope to go down. In some ways you could say that I am smurfing by running a mostly Medium hanger, since it doesn't have the same potential for damage as an all heavy hangar would. But, I don't call it that as these are the bots that I want to play, and I have the strongest weapons on them that I own, and play as hard as I can. So, adjusting your play isn't really the issue, it is intentionally tanking your stats by ditching or going AFK. IMO.
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pj
Destrier
Posts: 63
Karma: 20
Pilot name: iii-PJ
Platform: iOS
Clan: Lethal Injection
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Aphid Patton
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Post by pj on Feb 21, 2017 13:05:16 GMT -5
I don't think it's cheating b/c the effect you obtain by deliberately tanking your slots is temporary. Yes, you can tank on purpose to get into what would've previously been low Bronze territory but as soon as you start winning matches again, the game will start placing you against equal or harder matched opponents. I've been in low 30% War Robots 2x since this new mm kicked in. Not by design but just b/c of the way mm works. It's gotten to where you stop looking at the War Robots and just focus on playing the game. Eventually you start "winning" again and the War Robots goes up accordingly. Do I still drop a game if the match isn't going my way and my team is down 2 bots to Red's 5? Yes! It makes no difference. If you dropped to a low level and stayed there allowing your War Robots to get past 60% than yes, it would be cheating but not how the game is currently. I run lvl 9 bots and wpns hangar.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 21, 2017 13:32:52 GMT -5
First of all nice thread nice topic.
Problem one is, I'm confident almost no one is gonna read every page, maybe make a poll. Great content lost to pages and pages... kind of a bummer, not the intent or results I'm sure you hoped for.
Problem two is, if the game allows it, then it isn't a cheat. There are ways of hacking or cheating galore, but playing bad on purpose isn't a cheat. The trigger is built with on and off, the map allows you to roam anywhere, you have free will to engage or not engage others, and as we have all seen in random play... for dang sure... just because your buddy is standing right next to that red beacon, he doesn't HAVE to capture it.
So tanking is not cheating. It may be a bunch of things, may or may not be OK with anyone, but it is not cheating.
I'm sure all this has been said already, however because of one, I posted two which is likely a repost of a repost.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 21, 2017 14:04:08 GMT -5
My post was absolutely in line with the question, especially as a whole and not just the one sentence that you quoted. I quoted the part of your post that was drawing false conclusions. As a statistician/scientist I have learned that meaningful conclusions can only be drawn from data if the proper question was asked. The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that the majority don't consider tanking to be cheating. What you posted was merely conjecture, without any statistical backing. I don't disagree with you, I just think you should be more careful about presenting your assumptions as facts. It can be misleading.
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Post by whatttupG on Feb 21, 2017 14:13:25 GMT -5
for all of those still debating if tanking is cheating, i quoted my post. Tanking is considered an exploit, yes? this post explains exploting and cheating are more or less the same, so.....argument finished, good day to you all! this is the same thing that happened to the are gepard clubbers cheating. The underlying issue is that people choose to do this. Do you have to do this to win? No. Will this help you? Yes, but at the cost of others. The same could be said for gepard clubbers. I cannot see why no one else is drawing comparisons to it. You make a great point, clubbers in the mag gep world weren't cheating to me.. they were definitely exploiting a loophole and yes, unless Pix shuts that door, its open by design Today, no idea what the thought behind the new MM is (doesn't appear to be much) because it's so easy to tank, one has to argue that the walls have been made easier to breech. Again, not a cheat but a real head scratcher in so many ways. Difference though is the mag gep clubber was purposely setup to face poor destrier noobs, and there was no grey area to that hangar or that player. What they would do to new users only had one outcome, it's not even remotely debatable if you own a mag gep at 6/6/1... today, tanking can be done very easily without clubbing anyone and done in such a 'white hat' it actually benefits both you and your team... You deal no damage, you bag gobs of beacons, you act accordingly such that your team wins because all your work yields nothing if you lose. You get the 5 gold, the team splits the rest out of 5 people not six, and this is very different than clubbing. Perhaps why nobody made the reference yet because it's not really the same.
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