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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 22, 2017 17:45:23 GMT -5
The trade off with the TT Fury is its speed. Yeah, you aren't gonna best a fury in a 1 vs 1 scenario as you try to creep up on it from 600m, but why should you be able to? A bot with 3 heavy weapon slots is obviously going to have superior firepower. So while that fury is dishing out damage, you know what it's not going to be doing? That's right, capping beacons. Cap beacons and bank on the fury pilot's reluctance to ditch his bot, let the beacon timer run down.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 17:47:27 GMT -5
The trade off with the TT Fury is its speed. Yeah, you aren't gonna best a fury in a 1 vs 1 scenario as you try to creep up on it from 600m, but why should you be able to? A bot with 3 heavy weapon slots is obviously going to have superior firepower. So while that fury is dishing out damage, you know what it's not going to be doing? That's right, capping beacons. Cap beacons and bank on the fury pilot's reluctance to ditch his bot, let the beacon timer run down. Usually the Fury has some teammates to help defend beacons.
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Post by ΜØØSE on Feb 22, 2017 17:48:09 GMT -5
Surely you are joking....if you are in gold levels running a bunch of light bots, I'd like to see that. Oh, hold on a second....are you a tanker? there is almost nothing but heavies and carnages in the upper levels. Why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive and time consuming to upgrade? Because you don't want to run them? I like my light bots, too....but if I want to compete where I am, I need to run my heavies. Nope. Don't care for tankers, I just dislike ditchers. Sitting 360K+ damage as of now. There should be a equal type of balance between all classes of bots in this type of game. And why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive? Simply, they are too common, thus making most bots of other classes of bots obsolete. Notching down the speed by a few KMPHs might actually make mediums viable for once. That doesn't make any sense. You don't put a welterweight fighter in with a heavyweight. He will get destroyed. For the same reason, the hyenas scurry when the lion arrives.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 17:50:56 GMT -5
Nope. Don't care for tankers, I just dislike ditchers. Sitting 360K+ damage as of now. There should be a equal type of balance between all classes of bots in this type of game. And why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive? Simply, they are too common, thus making most bots of other classes of bots obsolete. Notching down the speed by a few KMPHs might actually make mediums viable for once. That doesn't make any sense. You don't put a welterweight fighter in with a heavyweight. He will get destroyed. For the same reason, the hyenas scurry when the lion arrives. There is a reason why Lions are slow. Heavies, in theory, make up for the speed in health and firepower.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 18:00:03 GMT -5
This exactly. I realize there are smart missles nowadays that explode at a set range. But is is disheartening to dodge a missile only to have it explode next to you and damage your bot and shield with splash. It stinks that we can only "dodge" missile splash by running backwards. But you have a shield and speed vs the trident fury and pins/tulumbas....you just pointed out your advantage not even including being less expensive to buy and upgrade. My TT Fury gets killed by stalkers sometimes....do I go out and cry for a Nerf on the stalker? Nope...you suck it up and figure out something else to do to counter it. I run knifers, too. They get killed by midrange as well. I was just saying that i'd like the trident missiles to explode when they hit something, like a wall or a bot. Not explode in mid-air 10m away from me and I still take splash damage. I think Pixonic keeps this feature because it helps offset the lag in the game during heavy fighting.
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karljackson
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Post by karljackson on Feb 22, 2017 18:07:55 GMT -5
Only thing I don't like about Tridents is when there are 3 or more trident bots in a squad, working together. Suckfest at center beacon. LOL
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Feb 22, 2017 18:08:03 GMT -5
I used to say the same... either the radius or the reload time needed a nerf. But, I really dug into why it was so bad on the games I felt the most frustration. I found that most of the issues could be summed up thusly: The users of the Tridents were level 11 or 12. I was unaware of the user that shot me. I made a dumb move that got me in range and in their sights, knowingly, but not on purpose. In other words, a "DOH!" moment. With that in mind, I began to really think about how to play against them. Things talked about in this thread, and in a few others, actually do help. Some quick tips that made the most difference in my games to follow... Awareness of the battle must stay the most important thing. Before you charge in, take stock of what the Red team has, looking for the Furies. If you don't see them, watch for the lines of smoke and the group of 3 explosions that indicate one in use. Then, try and figure out who has them. Take note of his gamer tag and keep more than 620m between you and him if no cover, or use cover if there is any. That one thing, keeping tabs on their bots, made the biggest difference. If I was looking for them, I was able to make adjustments as needed to my gameplay in order to adapt. If you do get surprised by one, don't respawn right away... wait and see what they are doing, like what ipwng0dz said, above. Experiment with counters. I tried everything from Molots to Ancilots to my own TT Fury. What I like the most is the Carny. Either Trident or Zeus, doesn't matter. Trebs are good too... but they are so slow that I hated them, and I am too restless/aggressive, usually. Even the humble Molot is good at making them hide from beyond their own range. Not much good at anything else... granted, but damn good against TT Furies. If they are leveled decently, they can actually surprise you on how fast they will whittle down a Fury if they decide to ignore you shooting them. Usually though, they will hide... which still helps. Many more viable options available, like Nashorn+Gekko Leo, Hydra Fujin, etc. Yes, you may have to adapt your playstyle to the meta and add in a mid or long range bot or two. It's not the end of the world and, who knows, it may grow on ya Learn the maps, backwards and forwards. There are a lot of places in Canyon that have natural cover. Both terrain and actual rock and man-made structures. SF, too, has a few different places that allow for movement that isn't covered by the big, bad, behemoth. Shen... aw man, once I really started to explore the city part... I realized that anyone that charges across the courtyard when Red Furies is on the map, are truly missing the best approaches. Use those buildings. Go around the direction that has the least amount of activity and work your way up to the Furies under cover. I love the Gary for this... believe it or not. Anyway, the point is, use your maps. Think about it like this and ask yourself: when you are on that map in the position that the Fury is at, what could you see to attack, and what couldn't you. Get the blind spots down pat, and exploit them. There are more tips, tactics, and strategies, to use when dealing with these masters of disaster, that I did not list here. But, one more that I found to be true for me: don't accept defeat before you have lost. That reputation that they have is as psychologically effective as Gekkos hitting them from across the map are. You have to change they way you look at it from instant death, to a surmountable obstacle. Granted, if you run into a game with a squad of 12s, there isn't much to do no matter what bots/weapons they use, so just chalk those games up as "oh well... win some and lose some" type games, and dive in to the next one. If the games are all the same and all filled with 12s, then maybe restart the app or the device or something to see if you can get put into a different pool of players. Or, just walk away for a bit. But... don't give in to the trident. Make it give in to you!
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Post by BooBooKitty on Feb 22, 2017 18:32:29 GMT -5
Tricky is OP, plz nerf
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 22, 2017 18:35:03 GMT -5
But you have a shield and speed vs the trident fury and pins/tulumbas....you just pointed out your advantage not even including being less expensive to buy and upgrade. My TT Fury gets killed by stalkers sometimes....do I go out and cry for a Nerf on the stalker? Nope...you suck it up and figure out something else to do to counter it. I run knifers, too. They get killed by midrange as well. I was just saying that i'd like the trident missiles to explode when they hit something, like a wall or a bot. Not explode in mid-air 10m away from me and I still take splash damage. I think Pixonic keeps this feature because it helps offset the lag in the game during heavy fighting. There is this thing called a proximity fuse that was invented in the early 1940's - a small radar sensor that triggers the fuse when the shell is so far away from an object. It's a real life thing so having that within this game makes perfect sense.
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Post by Vectivus on Feb 22, 2017 18:40:15 GMT -5
No,they are not overpowered. No,they should not be nerfed. My fave setup right now is my Trident / CRV Natasha. The only time it is anything remotely close to "OP" is when my team is on point with their jobs and the Reds aren't watching their 3, 6 or 9.
Be aware of the map and of your enemy's positions, and I won't splatter you like an errant mosquito so much. ;-)
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Post by WE034 on Feb 22, 2017 19:00:56 GMT -5
My TT Fury gets killed by stalkers sometimes....do I go out and cry for a Nerf on the stalker? Nope...you suck it up and figure out something else to do to counter it. In support of your statement Boom, the full quote on cowardice, vs the abbreviated version often taken out of context, “The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one'.... (The man who first said that) was probably a coward.... He knew a great deal about cowards but nothing about the brave. The brave dies perhaps two thousand deaths if he's intelligent. He simply doesn't mention them.” ? Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms at this point in the madness, the issue lies not in the metrics & functions of the game, but within the players. Case in point, tactics were mentioned earlier. It's not even the tactics but the selection processes of most players that are flawed. Most need to take a step back and look within and evaluate the way they've chosen to think thru their games. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop My Grandpa, an old cowboy, used to tell me, " if you don't want poop on your boots, don't walk through the pasture." It you do want to get smoke check by the tridents don't be where they detonate. Use cover and reloading times for open spaces to approach. Scoot back some on the corners to cut back on splash. Regardless of how you do it, fix the problem not the blame. My two cents.
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 22, 2017 19:27:25 GMT -5
Only thing I don't like about Tridents is when there are 3 or more trident bots in a squad, working together. Suckfest at center beacon. LOL Yeah, I would agree this really sucks, especially on Yama....unless of course it is my team. Then it is awesome foresight to be working together. Unless of course you don't have the center beacon and then you will most likely lose on beacons as no one wants to bail out of their TT Fury to go cap the center. but not a reason to nerf it.
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Post by blastronaut on Feb 22, 2017 19:35:55 GMT -5
It you do want to get smoke check by the tridents don't be where they detonate. So just don't get within 600m of Tridents and you are Golden. Great advice.
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 22, 2017 20:17:00 GMT -5
Nope. Don't care for tankers, I just dislike ditchers. Sitting 360K+ damage as of now. There should be a equal type of balance between all classes of bots in this type of game. And why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive? Simply, they are too common, thus making most bots of other classes of bots obsolete. Notching down the speed by a few KMPHs might actually make mediums viable for once. That doesn't make any sense. You don't put a welterweight fighter in with a heavyweight. He will get destroyed. For the same reason, the hyenas scurry when the lion arrives. I'm not putting in a welterweight, you are. I'm running my heavies and you are complaining because you want to run your light/medium bots AND be competitive. Listen, I would like nothing more than to run my geps and have fun with them - well I can't do that and still be competitive with the matches I get with the MM - I get gleefully blasted by just about everyone including my own blue team if some could. So that is a choice you have to make.....if you want to carry your beloved swift knife into a gun fight, it's up to you to figure out different tactics to win....instead, you are choosing to carry that knife and you are telling me as a gun toter that I have to fire rubber bullets because of your choice. So you can complain about stuff being OP but for the most part it seems like it is falling on deaf ears. Even TT Fury pilots get blasted by other Trident or Tulumbas/pin/Zeus/treb shooters.
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acethunder
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Post by acethunder on Feb 22, 2017 21:27:25 GMT -5
The Trident itself is not really OP.
The Fury is the main culprit, but considering its expensive premium status they can't justify messing with it or paying players would have a very valid reason for outrage.
One can't deny that there is practically no disadvantage to having a Trident Fury in your hangar regardless of map. Whereas having a Nashorn or Zeus Fury has clear disadvantages depending on the map.
This simple balancing consideration built into the weapon's mechanics is what attracted me, and I will guess many others, to continue playing the game as we have. The Trident Fury combo ignores this consideration.
I believe Pix should have never added the Fury into the game. Two heavy hardpoints are manageable but three is overkill and it shows a lack of foresight when they released high spike damage weapons such as the Trebuchet and Trident that these combinations would obviously become more abundant as the lifecycle of the game continued, making them predictably mandatory to stay competitive, as well as making non-shielded light bots completely irrelevant at TT. E.g. Losing most of your health as a Stalker or Jesse to a TT Fury from across the map on Springfield at the beginning of the match is highly demoralising and disincentivising, and then if you manage to avoid the Treb Fury at 1099m, you're then having to deal with a Trident Fury at 600m sapping the majority of health in a single salvo.
With the Fury Pix has sacrificed game balance for revenue in the form of players looking for a power trip and are willing to pay for it.
P.S. So to clarify the original question of this thread. If some more balance is desired, it's more acceptable to alter the Trident in some way than the Fury for the reasons mentioned above, even though I acknowledge the Trident is not really the main issue.
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Post by mechtout on Feb 22, 2017 21:30:19 GMT -5
Aladean
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Post by ΜØØSE on Feb 22, 2017 21:42:15 GMT -5
That doesn't make any sense. You don't put a welterweight fighter in with a heavyweight. He will get destroyed. For the same reason, the hyenas scurry when the lion arrives. I'm not putting in a welterweight, you are. I'm running my heavies and you are complaining because you want to run your light/medium bots AND be competitive. Listen, I would like nothing more than to run my geps and have fun with them - well I can't do that and still be competitive with the matches I get with the MM - I get gleefully blasted by just about everyone including my own blue team if some could. So that is a choice you have to make.....if you want to carry your beloved swift knife into a gun fight, it's up to you to figure out different tactics to win....instead, you are choosing to carry that knife and you are telling me as a gun toter that I have to fire rubber bullets because of your choice. So you can complain about stuff being OP but for the most part it seems like it is falling on deaf ears. Even TT Fury pilots get blasted by other Trident or Tulumbas/pin/Zeus/treb shooters. I run heavies.... ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:49:16 GMT -5
I'm not putting in a welterweight, you are. I'm running my heavies and you are complaining because you want to run your light/medium bots AND be competitive. Listen, I would like nothing more than to run my geps and have fun with them - well I can't do that and still be competitive with the matches I get with the MM - I get gleefully blasted by just about everyone including my own blue team if some could. So that is a choice you have to make.....if you want to carry your beloved swift knife into a gun fight, it's up to you to figure out different tactics to win....instead, you are choosing to carry that knife and you are telling me as a gun toter that I have to fire rubber bullets because of your choice. So you can complain about stuff being OP but for the most part it seems like it is falling on deaf ears. Even TT Fury pilots get blasted by other Trident or Tulumbas/pin/Zeus/treb shooters. I run heavies.... ? Exactly. Ever since the heavy bot buff, they have been OP and made the use of other bot classes invalid. Isn't that what the aphid did before the nerf?
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Post by ewing411 on Feb 22, 2017 22:09:08 GMT -5
With the Fury Pix has sacrificed game balance for revenue in the form of players looking for a power trip and are willing to pay for it. P.S. So to clarify the original question of this thread. If some more balance is desired, it's more acceptable to alter the Trident in some way than the Fury for the reasons mentioned above, even though I acknowledge the Trident is not really the main issue.I sometimes wonder if there was any P2W intention or not on the Fury. With daily tasks I'm already closing in on 5k Au again so unless gold influx is somehow nerfed anyone can get one eventually. Those who do cash buy them are basically paying to keep the lights on at Pixonic and I consider that a good thing since I stopped at $20 without anything else worth buying. My biggest problem with a TT Fury isn't the target but his squad mates. With my weapons at 8s and 9s I have yet to find a Fury that didn't fold like a cheap chair. Maybe teamwork and combat situational awareness is what's OP. (Sidenote: I'm not getting a Fury, likely 5th slot)
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Post by fijiwater on Feb 22, 2017 22:10:34 GMT -5
Exactly. Ever since the heavy bot buff, they have been OP and made the use of other bot classes invalid. Isn't that what the aphid did before the nerf? I totally disagree. A gareth or a stalker can be a huge help to any team. I usually cap about 2 beacons, sometimes more, with my gareth play smarter, bouncing around in a gepard isn't an option anymore
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Post by SGT D00M! on Feb 22, 2017 22:12:24 GMT -5
My TT Fury gets killed by stalkers sometimes....do I go out and cry for a Nerf on the stalker? Nope...you suck it up and figure out something else to do to counter it. In support of your statement Boom, the full quote on cowardice, vs the abbreviated version often taken out of context, “The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one'.... (The man who first said that) was probably a coward.... He knew a great deal about cowards but nothing about the brave. The brave dies perhaps two thousand deaths if he's intelligent. He simply doesn't mention them.” ? Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms at this point in the madness, the issue lies not in the metrics & functions of the game, but within the players. Case in point, tactics were mentioned earlier. It's not even the tactics but the selection processes of most players that are flawed. Most need to take a step back and look within and evaluate the way they've chosen to think thru their games. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop My Grandpa, an old cowboy, used to tell me, " if you don't want poop on your boots, don't walk through the pasture." It you do want to get smoke check by the tridents don't be where they detonate. Use cover and reloading times for open spaces to approach. Scoot back some on the corners to cut back on splash. Regardless of how you do it, fix the problem not the blame. My two cents. Your back! Kill!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:36:22 GMT -5
Exactly. Ever since the heavy bot buff, they have been OP and made the use of other bot classes invalid. Isn't that what the aphid did before the nerf? I totally disagree. A gareth or a stalker can be a huge help to any team. I usually cap about 2 beacons, sometimes more, with my gareth play smarter, bouncing around in a gepard isn't an option anymore I do not own a gepard. A gepard and a gareth are usually midrange snacks.
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 22, 2017 22:40:50 GMT -5
I'm not putting in a welterweight, you are. I'm running my heavies and you are complaining because you want to run your light/medium bots AND be competitive. Listen, I would like nothing more than to run my geps and have fun with them - well I can't do that and still be competitive with the matches I get with the MM - I get gleefully blasted by just about everyone including my own blue team if some could. So that is a choice you have to make.....if you want to carry your beloved swift knife into a gun fight, it's up to you to figure out different tactics to win....instead, you are choosing to carry that knife and you are telling me as a gun toter that I have to fire rubber bullets because of your choice. So you can complain about stuff being OP but for the most part it seems like it is falling on deaf ears. Even TT Fury pilots get blasted by other Trident or Tulumbas/pin/Zeus/treb shooters. I run heavies.... ? So you are a heavyweight vs a heavyweight.....you made the example of the welterweight Which is confusing because it is a different category like a light or med bot... what you choose to run, you live with the results Both good and bad. when I drop my Fury on Dead City, I'm at a disadvantage because of limited LOS and lots of cover.....perhaps I should start a petition to have Pixo lower the walls by 80% so I can shoot everything. Exactly, that would be stupid - I'm choosing to run that set up and have to live with it. if the TT Fury was so overpowering, I think you would see a different result in the poll. If you had put in the Android Lvl9 pin from today, that would have received the clear OP vote.
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Post by SGT D00M! on Feb 22, 2017 23:11:30 GMT -5
What about a sneaky nerf. Make it have a very distinctive visual feature, like the trebs bright yellow death flower?
For the heavies need nerf argument...I played before the heavy speed buff. It was awful. Couldn't even get to the fight before it was over. No times a billion. Mediums and lights could use a speed buff however. This would make game play more exciting and act as a sneaky nerf to mid range and sniper set-ups.
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Post by Nitro on Feb 23, 2017 2:34:49 GMT -5
Honestly we've all dealt with Tridents, and Trident Furies for that manner. This is basically a repeat of the Bronze Tier Mag-Gepard domination. We've all dealt with them and if we felt we wanted them too, then we kept at it and got them. It's pretty inconsiderate to the people who decided to work hard and get them too instead of complaining about them. Basically what I'm saying is, tough it out, work hard, and experience them as the user instead of the reciever. Most of the time you end up feeling way more different once you're behind the cockpit. You'll realize you're not as high and mighty as you thought you'd be
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 3:48:07 GMT -5
Eventually enough things will get nerfed that a rusty spoon would make a better weapon.
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Post by notyetnotsosoon on Feb 23, 2017 4:44:32 GMT -5
Hypocrite diaries 101:
Communism until you get rich. Feminist until you get married. Atheist until the plan starts falling. Nerf weapons until you actually have them.
No, just no.
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Post by boomsplat on Feb 23, 2017 20:58:44 GMT -5
If you want to kill off Trident Furys, build a molot griffin. They will do the trick.
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Post by SuperHero on Feb 23, 2017 23:04:32 GMT -5
Surely you are joking....if you are in gold levels running a bunch of light bots, I'd like to see that. Oh, hold on a second....are you a tanker? there is almost nothing but heavies and carnages in the upper levels. Why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive and time consuming to upgrade? Because you don't want to run them? I like my light bots, too....but if I want to compete where I am, I need to run my heavies. Nope. Don't care for tankers, I just dislike ditchers. Sitting 360K+ damage as of now. There should be a equal type of balance between all classes of bots in this type of game. And why nerf a whole class of bots that are the most expensive? Simply, they are too common, thus making most bots of other classes of bots obsolete. Notching down the speed by a few KMPHs might actually make mediums viable for once. There ARE viable mediums in gold. But they cost gold. As u move up tiers or leagues or whatever, u SHOULD require better quality robots. It's not meant to be fair. Otherwise, people would campaign for a Cossack buff. In any case this is going off topic. Please go back to the original post. I have said this numerous times. Problem is not the trident. Most folks do not complain when a Natasha, a Leo or a Vityaz carries them. The complaint occurs when they are on a Fury (and sometimes a Carnage). However, we EXPECT the fury to be powerful. It SHOULD be considering it costs 5k gold, doesn't have a shield or any other abilities. But they are not invincible. They can be killed. They are amazing on some maps like Canyon, but can be a liability on Dead City or Power Plant. With the ancile buff they have become less devastating as well. Learn how to play the game against them. Be aware of their range and their splash zone. Don't go charging blindly. Study maps and know where the kill zones are and how to avoid the, or use cover to your advantage. Whiners, don't assume that things are OP just because u struggle against them. look at what you could be doing better first. Both in terms of playstyle, tactics and skills. Whiner-slammers, don't just criticise and just say that they suck or are cupcakes. Give constructive advice on how they can get better. That's the purpose of this forum. EDIT: I wrote and posted this before I saw Tricky's excellent post.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 17:26:19 GMT -5
I do not struggle against them. I ignore them and hopefully they ignore me.
Here is my suggestion to Pixonic: Make all midrange explode on impact and remove the fire delay from tridents. Tridents and Pins and Tulumbas will have to hit the target physically which will force die-hard Fury users to learn how to aim and time. It also might increase light and medium bots, since they will be smaller and faster to dodge midrange.
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