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Post by krebby on Apr 12, 2018 11:49:07 GMT -5
No.. We are talking apples all the way...And people are not thinking about it at all, or thinking it through properly..They are just emotionally reacting to something they do everyday..They are auto parroting the populist line on this...No one can refute the fact that Loaders pay full price in their currency then sell it at at a real discount to others. This is not hacking or cheating. Treating it as such is being intellectually dishonest. Legal Discounts are legal..The reason everyone hates BigJJ and and the other full MK2 players is that they have the access to the ability to load and the rest of us have to grind under Pixonics flawed business model...It's straight ENVY all the way..Its pure inequality of outcome which leads to attacking those who have more then we do to have it taken from them. If loaders were more prevalent and Pixonic was not in full Gabe Newell mode...Then we would all have a much better time of it in this game. A more even level playing field as you say..and cheaper prices. I doubt I will change peoples mind on this because its easy to take the populist side of things..But the populist side of thing is many times wrong. Did you even read what everyone else posted? Loaders are notorious for using stolen credit cards or hacked store accounts for purchases to pass on to other people for thier own profit, you keep ignoring that fact and going straight to the gambit of currency evaluation? You can see plenty of videos from users in other countries and the prices are more-or-less the same equivalents to USD, sure if there's a massive sudden shift in the value of a countries money it may take a little time for Pix's system (or whatever 3rd party is used) to catch up and adjust but you can't possibly think that these loaders are all from 3rd world countries legitimately spending a months to a years worth of salary to pass on in a shady deal to internet consumers. I hate to bag on you Rock because I think you're a good guy but you absolutely have blinders on when it comes to this subject and other subjects having to do with Pixonic's monetization model. I think we're discussing two separate groups here: (1) Criminals who steal credit card numbers and/or hack accounts, and essentially use gold loading sales to launder their illegally obtained wealth; and (2) People who take advantage of the arbitrage of different prices in different countries. I think we can all agree that people who fall into Group 1 are utterly unethical and despicable. But like Rock, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with Group 2. The problem here is that we don't really have a good way of knowing if a particular gold loader belongs to Group 1 or Group 2. For that reason it may be prudent to assume there is a substantial likelihood that any anonymous gold loader transaction involves a person in Group 1. But I'm unwilling to assume that all gold loaders are people in Group 1. What if I'm, e.g., in a clan with a family member who lives in Ecuador and she buys gold for me and I send money to her?
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Apr 12, 2018 11:49:37 GMT -5
No.. We are talking apples all the way...And people are not thinking about it at all, or thinking it through properly..They are just emotionally reacting to something they do everyday..They are auto parroting the populist line on this...No one can refute the fact that Loaders pay full price in their currency then sell it at at a real discount to others. This is not hacking or cheating. Treating it as such is being intellectually dishonest. Legal Discounts are legal..The reason everyone hates BigJJ and and the other full MK2 players is that they have the access to the ability to load and the rest of us have to grind under Pixonics flawed business model...It's straight ENVY all the way..Its pure inequality of outcome which leads to attacking those who have more then we do to have it taken from them. If loaders were more prevalent and Pixonic was not in full Gabe Newell mode...Then we would all have a much better time of it in this game. A more even level playing field as you say..and cheaper prices. I doubt I will change peoples mind on this because its easy to take the populist side of things..But the populist side of thing is many times wrong. Did you even read what everyone else posted? Loaders are notorious for using stolen credit cards or hacked store accounts for purchases to pass on to other people for thier own profit, you keep ignoring that fact and going straight to the gambit of currency evaluation? You can see plenty of videos from users in other countries and the prices are more-or-less the same equivalents to USD, sure if there's a massive sudden shift in the value of a countries money it may take a little time for Pix's system (or whatever 3rd party is used) to catch up and adjust but you can't possibly think that these loaders are all from 3rd world countries legitimately spending a months to a years worth of salary to pass on in a shady deal to internet consumers. I hate to bag on you Rock because I think you're a good guy but you absolutely have blinders on when it comes to this subject and other subjects having to do with Pixonic's monetization model. Those are some wild accusations there.. is BigJJ guilty of all this? Any evidence even? I am talking clan members from different countries where there is at least some trust built...You are painting 'the 3rd world criminal syndicate is running all this' crap...Knock that 「dookie」 off..
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Apr 12, 2018 11:52:44 GMT -5
Did you even read what everyone else posted? Loaders are notorious for using stolen credit cards or hacked store accounts for purchases to pass on to other people for thier own profit, you keep ignoring that fact and going straight to the gambit of currency evaluation? You can see plenty of videos from users in other countries and the prices are more-or-less the same equivalents to USD, sure if there's a massive sudden shift in the value of a countries money it may take a little time for Pix's system (or whatever 3rd party is used) to catch up and adjust but you can't possibly think that these loaders are all from 3rd world countries legitimately spending a months to a years worth of salary to pass on in a shady deal to internet consumers. I hate to bag on you Rock because I think you're a good guy but you absolutely have blinders on when it comes to this subject and other subjects having to do with Pixonic's monetization model. I think we're discussing two separate groups here: (1) Criminals who steal credit card numbers and/or hack accounts, and essentially use gold loading sales to launder their illegally obtained wealth; and (2) People who take advantage of the arbitrage of different prices in different countries. I think we can all agree that people who fall into Group 1 are utterly unethical and despicable. But like Rock, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with Group 2. The problem here is that we don't really have a good way of knowing if a particular gold loader belongs to Group 1 or Group 2. For that reason it may be prudent to assume there is a substantial likelihood that any anonymous gold loader transaction involves a person in Group 1. But I'm unwilling to assume that all gold loaders are people in Group 1. What if I'm, e.g., in a clan with a family member who lives in Ecuador and she buys gold for me and I send money to her? Bingo..Group 2 is what I mean..
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Post by Ⓑⓞⓑ Ⓓⓨⓛⓐⓝ on Apr 12, 2018 11:56:57 GMT -5
Did you even read what everyone else posted? Loaders are notorious for using stolen credit cards or hacked store accounts for purchases to pass on to other people for thier own profit, you keep ignoring that fact and going straight to the gambit of currency evaluation? You can see plenty of videos from users in other countries and the prices are more-or-less the same equivalents to USD, sure if there's a massive sudden shift in the value of a countries money it may take a little time for Pix's system (or whatever 3rd party is used) to catch up and adjust but you can't possibly think that these loaders are all from 3rd world countries legitimately spending a months to a years worth of salary to pass on in a shady deal to internet consumers. I hate to bag on you Rock because I think you're a good guy but you absolutely have blinders on when it comes to this subject and other subjects having to do with Pixonic's monetization model. Those are some wild accusations there.. is BigJJ guilty of all this? Any evidence even? I am talking clan members from different countries where there is at least some trust built...You are painting 'the 3rd world criminal syndicate is running all this' crap...Knock that ?poo-poo? off.. Ah, if that's the case I rescind my comment. As far as I was aware clanmates from other countries don't have a disparity of over 50-90% valuation on deals with the currency exchange. My point was a lot of people were saying that this is done with stolen CC / hacked store accounts, which I think is a likely scenario from the "offers" i've seen on War Robots facebook players page etc... and those posts you didn't even acknowledge in your argument. If it's purely a better deal with alternate currency, I guess that's not much different than buying tires for your car in Canada and I agree, but I suspect that isn't the case a lot of the time.
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Post by Domino on Apr 12, 2018 12:13:45 GMT -5
Did you even read what everyone else posted? Loaders are notorious for using stolen credit cards or hacked store accounts for purchases to pass on to other people for thier own profit, you keep ignoring that fact and going straight to the gambit of currency evaluation? You can see plenty of videos from users in other countries and the prices are more-or-less the same equivalents to USD, sure if there's a massive sudden shift in the value of a countries money it may take a little time for Pix's system (or whatever 3rd party is used) to catch up and adjust but you can't possibly think that these loaders are all from 3rd world countries legitimately spending a months to a years worth of salary to pass on in a shady deal to internet consumers. I hate to bag on you Rock because I think you're a good guy but you absolutely have blinders on when it comes to this subject and other subjects having to do with Pixonic's monetization model. Those are some wild accusations there.. is BigJJ guilty of all this? Any evidence even? I am talking clan members from different countries where there is at least some trust built...You are painting 'the 3rd world criminal syndicate is running all this' crap...Knock that ?poo-poo? off.. BigJJ by his own confession said he only did this once. I'll need to double check his Live Steam again however IIRC correctly he stated he only did it once. If he didn't do anything wrong and it didn't break any ToS, then Pixonic has no right to action against BigJJ. However they did, so I can safely assume there's more there and it all points to malicious intent.
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Post by seanh on Apr 12, 2018 12:14:40 GMT -5
Clan members who you trust who you paypal then gift gold is the actual issue..Lets keep the debate there.. You could of course do this and depending on the jurisdictions involved you might not actually be breaking any laws (you would in quite a few, certainly inside the EU anyway). The first particularly notable instance of this technique was in the 1920’s based on the completely legitimate arbitrage of international reply coupons for postage stamps. You could in theory get discount of up to 30%. And people did, thousands of them, millions in transactions. But there in was the issue, while you could in theory get a 30% return it was not possible to replicate in any significant volume. Certain not in the volumes that the good Mr Ponzi was attributing to his ‘legitimate’ plan.
The point being, if it sounds too good to be true, it generally it. I have seen nothing in all the forums, discord and facebook postings of offers and pricing that would lead me to think that the deals the loaders offer could be achieved through anything other than utterly nefarious means.
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Post by Domino on Apr 12, 2018 12:16:12 GMT -5
Those are some wild accusations there.. is BigJJ guilty of all this? Any evidence even? I am talking clan members from different countries where there is at least some trust built...You are painting 'the 3rd world criminal syndicate is running all this' crap...Knock that ?poo-poo? off.. Ah, if that's the case I rescind my comment. As far as I was aware clanmates from other countries don't have a disparity of over 50-90% valuation on deals with the currency exchange. My point was a lot of people were saying that this is done with stolen CC / hacked store accounts, which I think is a likely scenario from the "offers" i've seen on War Robots facebook players page etc... and those posts you didn't even acknowledge in your argument. If it's purely a better deal with alternate currency, I guess that's not much different than buying tires for your car in Canada and I agree, but I suspect that isn't the case a lot of the time. You also need to add level of profit, so if you are saving 50% it's actually 70-80%. They are not doing this out of generosity. This is a business. It's very safe to assume unless the burden of proof shows otherwise that there is criminal intent.
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Post by hashisfun on Apr 13, 2018 1:19:35 GMT -5
there is no right or wrong....its shades of gray (in my opinion).
the ethical who's moral compass points in the right direction will not succumb to these practices....but then there are the others as well.
BUT....it is a 100% DISCRIMINATION on the part of devs to do so. another game is 'galaxy legend'. after playing it for over a year and being subject to what not....i discovered that the items sold to me were being sold to some other at 1/6th prices (russians and chinese and some others). i stopped opening my wallet over there as have i done so over here.
not much a person can do as the legalities and the headaches to fight it out are just too much.
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Post by cheap on Apr 13, 2018 2:33:10 GMT -5
so a couple friends an i are going over to europe an asia for a trip b4 one of them gets married will be gone for a month an a half. if a buy google cards there an purchase Au will that be considered Loading?
i wanna visit Russia an find the Pix building an take a huge Crap in their lobby, could i get banned from War Robots if i did this?
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Post by Domino on Apr 13, 2018 6:42:20 GMT -5
so a couple friends an i are going over to europe an asia for a trip b4 one of them gets married will be gone for a month an a half. if a buy google cards there an purchase Au will that be considered Loading? i wanna visit Russia an find the Pix building an take a huge Crap in their lobby, could i get banned from War Robots if i did this? Price of gift cards are going to.be roughly equal I assume. Since in Canada the conversation is about 25% more for US, anything in the store costs roughly that much more versus our US friends. I assume the same applies all over the world. I'm sure you could register an account in a different country and see this for yourself.
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Post by Loganspawn on Apr 13, 2018 8:24:15 GMT -5
Big assumption about me. I don't care about populous opinion, I will use my own intellect and make a informed decision. I decided to look into Loading and found several offers on Facebook for both IOS and Andriod. roughly 50-60% off asking price. Also, you are assumming a few aspects on the loading component, please verify your sources before we can debate ethics, until then we don't know the process on the loaders side. Therefore 50% off asking price is suspicious and wouldn't buy it on fear alone that it involves an illegal manner. Last point I will make: If you ran a business and people were side stepping your purchase process and buying your product at a significant discount and costing you profit, would you shrug it off? Most people don't know where their ideas come from..They just spout them cause it gets them positive attention, and I am not saying that this is you. Group think is just dumbness with a free membership card. Clan members who you trust who you paypal then gift gold is the actual issue..Lets keep the debate there.. If you ran a bakery and another baker came to town with lower prices...are you allowed to shut him down? Oh hockey puck now you are just getting silly.
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Post by hashisfun on Apr 13, 2018 11:01:40 GMT -5
a few examples off REAL LIFE (not related to games).
few decades ago kodak use to sell their film rolls to 3rd world countries at cheaper prices.....businessmen bought them and then re-exported them too developed countries. was it legal and ethical....NO. kodak stopped it ! same thing happened for print publications....later on the books/magazines started coming with 'for sale in xxxx'. cellphone are locked to carriers and sold cheap and people get those cheap phones. throw the sim out, sell them to be hacked & be used with other simcards; is it legal....NO !
buy tyres form another official/authorized vendor...its fine. these people selling are they official and authorized to sell au/ag....NO !
if there is another cake shop to buy from....perfect. is there another pixonic....NO !
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this was my last input/post on this subject....obviously some of you will never get the concept and will keep arguing unnecessarily....all i can do is urge you to open your eyes and look at reality instead of concocting some invalid parallel.
over and out....
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Post by windcaster on Apr 28, 2018 18:30:00 GMT -5
a few examples off REAL LIFE (not related to games). few decades ago kodak use to sell their film rolls to 3rd world countries at cheaper prices.....businessmen bought them and then re-exported them too developed countries. was it legal and ethical....NO. kodak stopped it ! same thing happened for print publications....later on the books/magazines started coming with 'for sale in xxxx'. cellphone are locked to carriers and sold cheap and people get those cheap phones. throw the sim out, sell them to be hacked & be used with other simcards; is it legal....NO ! It's called Grey Market. Remember the arcade games that had country warnings of copyright violations for operating them outside of the designated territory? I just bought some Dahua IP cam's that are only sold in China.. people buy them up and patch over a English translation and they sell for a fraction of what a similar spec'ed cam would cost for the US market. Personally I could care less about stuff like that. If pix is getting paid legit I could care less how someone got their gold, if someone has a angle on it and is able to get the gold cheap.. well.. *single sarcastic tear rolls down his cheek*
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moodystinger1605
Destrier
Still playing Warrobots since September 2016. Have a Clan that has surpassed me by miles will update
Posts: 12
Karma: 3
Pilot name: Moody Stinger
Platform: Android
Clan: DIRTBAGS [DRŤY] Clan ID 29225
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Harpy/Radiation weapons
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Post by moodystinger1605 on Nov 19, 2018 18:58:20 GMT -5
This has been going on for a wile, I personally was invited to purchase cash / Robots/ Weapons for reduced rate. But chickened out. Lol
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Post by TooSchoolForCool on Nov 20, 2018 16:47:41 GMT -5
This has been going on for a wile, I personally was invited to purchase cash / Robots/ Weapons for reduced rate. But chickened out. Lol good choice. It’s against pixo policy as well they’ll prolly just take your money. There’s no real way these days to be gifted that stuff short of hacking your personal phone.
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Nov 22, 2018 8:58:09 GMT -5
Play by the rules.
For a company that plays by grey rules (nerfing battle payouts secretly and gradually, rigging royal and chests components, nerfing weapons and bots after sale has declined) i would say it is ok to play with grey rules (buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that actually pay Pix)
As Pixonic has not outright defrauded the gaming community, it is NOT ok to outright defraud them. This includes buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that do not pay Pixonic. It also abviously includes CC theft info.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Karma:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 9:06:25 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this OP. And as you stated, it's a sad reflection of our society and the game. Concerned though that this is driven in part by the current in-game economy, which needs to change. Symptoms are all over the place right now.
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Post by Domino on Nov 23, 2018 12:28:57 GMT -5
Play by the rules. For a company that plays by grey rules (nerfing battle payouts secretly and gradually, rigging royal and chests components, nerfing weapons and bots after sale has declined) i would say it is ok to play with grey rules (buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that actually pay Pix) As Pixonic has not outright defrauded the gaming community, it is NOT ok to outright defraud them. This includes buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that do not pay Pixonic. It also abviously includes CC theft info. ever heard of two wrongs don't make it right? It's a very wise saying for a reason.
If you don't like grey rules.. Don't play them.. you're not handcuffed to Pixonic
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Post by $$SupportsNewHires/NewContent on Nov 24, 2018 8:59:41 GMT -5
Play by the rules. For a company that plays by grey rules (nerfing battle payouts secretly and gradually, rigging royal and chests components, nerfing weapons and bots after sale has declined) i would say it is ok to play with grey rules (buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that actually pay Pix) As Pixonic has not outright defrauded the gaming community, it is NOT ok to outright defraud them. This includes buying silver, gold, bots , weapons from third party that do not pay Pixonic. It also abviously includes CC theft info. ever heard of two wrongs don't make it right? It's a very wise saying for a reason.
If you don't like grey rules.. Don't play them.. you're not handcuffed to Pixonic
According to their Grey rules, both their action and our action are both right. It's a Russian culture so go by the Russian way.
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Post by Domino on Nov 24, 2018 16:19:49 GMT -5
ever heard of two wrongs don't make it right? It's a very wise saying for a reason.
If you don't like grey rules.. Don't play them.. you're not handcuffed to Pixonic
According to their Grey rules, both their action and our action are both right. It's a Russian culture so go by the Russian way. The method to get the Au is by nefarious means. If you want to support that, then enjoy. I'd rather not support Pixonic nor Loaders. So I quit playing period.
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