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Post by nocluevok on Jan 26, 2017 13:40:21 GMT -5
How exactly will it "settle" when everyone's bot/wpn/hanger levels are in a constant state of flux? By weighting. ELO is reportedly not the only factor in the equation, weight of hangar and a random factor are also in play. Also the previous system was continuously adjusted, only less so as weight of hangar, which is more or less fixed within a day, was the main factor considered. But it did, so much so that if you had a borderline bronze hangar, with enough of a win % you started seeing yamantau and (badly armed) heavies. Seriously, with my standard 9/10 galads and 6/10 heavies I was facing 12/12 hangars. Today (I will actually post pictures later) I'm facing on average 8/8s to 10/10s. Either I'm particularly lucky, or it is getting better. I'll say it again...10 HOURS of gaming for 8 wins. 60 battles at a minimum. You are assuming ELO and other factrs are immediately updated. What makes you believe so, when cups are updated daily? And... 10 hours? You will need those eyes for the rest of your life, ya know? I could buy 99 out of 100 lottery tickets and still lose. Life? I'm retired. Rich enough to pay the bills, poor enough to stay at home and play games till the wife gets home from work. I must be in matchmaking hell. Lvl 8 bots, lvl 10-11 wpns. Not using shielded bots, but that's all I ever see these days. |
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Thump
Destrier
Posts: 74
Karma: 41
Pilot name: Thump
Platform: Android
League: Silver
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Post by Thump on Jan 26, 2017 14:16:56 GMT -5
I just finished a game with results below. I do think ELO is settling in but the system is still determining the winners, not the players. Look at the consistent damage within the separate teams versus the damage comparing the teams. If the balance was correct the damage done. No one player dominated. It was a team sweep. And I feel bad. I won. But likely only because I had just had my own several defeats and the system decided to put me on a squad designed to overpower the other team and give my squad mates and I a win. I very much hope Pixonics will re-update MM without using win rate. Shut down clubbing, but please allow me to field a hangar of 4/8 mediums and fight a hangar of 4/8 mediums. or some reasonably close bot and weapon squad since, it will never be perfect.  |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 26, 2017 15:02:27 GMT -5
and now we can't even farm gold This seems to be the root problem for most people criticizing the new match maker. Which seems to have been Pixonic's intent, because gold farming by one player diminishes the user experience for 11 other players. maybe those 11 other players should step up their game...the only fair way to run a mm is based off of gear level alone, throwing good pilots with lvl 6 bots against lvl 10 noobs is dumb...some people are bad at the game, it's how it is...stop coddeling the bads |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 27, 2017 9:19:29 GMT -5
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Jan 27, 2017 9:48:45 GMT -5
You know, and this time I'm serious and I'm not meaning to be derisive in any way as at times I've been in this thread:
if you look at it, on an hangar perspective, the MM might be actually working.
Your top bot is a 6 heavy with 8 level weapon. (or about 7 average)
Your adversary top bot is a 8 heavy with 9 level weapon. (9 average)
If, as someone is suggesting, besides "combat performance" (now it's not ELO anymore, it seems) the MM is heavily reliant on top hangar bot/weapon level (not average weapon level, which I included in any case), then you are actually about the same league.
In fact, if all your bots were 2 levels lower and all your weapons were 1 (even 2, if averages are counted) lever lower, the game would be hard, but nothing particularly special, even with the past MM.
It might be just a matter of equalizing your bots (and getting the 5th slot) as, right now, your hangar is actually pretty skewed by that Griffin.
Have you tried running an hangar where all yoru bots are about same level and with bots/weapons about the same?
Addendum: the fact you have both average damage and average kills higher than him confirms me in my first impression (assuming you both were playing with about the same hangar most of the last 50 games, that is): on a top bot basis only, you have slightly worse bot/weapons levels and a quite better performance with about 10% plus avg. damage and 50% plus avg. kills.
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Post by Conflict's Student on Jan 27, 2017 10:01:37 GMT -5
This seems to be the root problem for most people criticizing the new match maker. Which seems to have been Pixonic's intent, because gold farming by one player diminishes the user experience for 11 other players. maybe those 11 other players should step up their game...the only fair way to run a mm is based off of gear level alone, throwing good pilots with lvl 6 bots against lvl 10 noobs is dumb...some people are bad at the game, it's how it is...stop coddeling the bads The game just stepped up for whiny Gepard drivers, which is why they are crying on the Rants page (ironically, while still chest-beating about how much more skilled they are) that it's unfair for them to have to face competition they don't have the skills to handle. Note that some Gepard drivers do have enough skill to compete, but (a) those people also know how to operate other platforms; so (b) they're not crying on the Rants page. Besides: if you thought gear level was a fair way to base matchmaking, how did you feel about using level 12 weapons against level 4 weapons, just because the old matchmaker treated a level 1 Gepard (with such high speed it could dictate when and where it engages, had medium health pre-nerf, and 3 light hardpoints) like it was so much weaker than a level 4 Patton (with abysmal speed, roughly the same health, and more light hardpoint) that it deserved an 8-level weapon handicap? That's roughly double the damage per weapon for only 25% fewer weapons, plus the amazing speed advantage!!! Far from coddling the bad players, fixing the matchmaker threw the gold-farming trimag and triaphid Gepard drivers out of their little exploit playpen and into the cold, hard reality of facing setups that can do comparable damage. Some people ARE bad at the game - you just seem to have a hard time recognizing which players those are. Protip: they're the ones who can't cope with new competition because all they knew how to do was point their trimag at slow-moving targets with squirt pistols, or to lob aphids over walls at setups that couldn't possibly shoot back. The old matchmaker ensured all 11 other players would lack lack both speed and weapons capability except occasionally for fellow exploiters who had also paid their Au for a permanent ticket to the kiddies shooting gallery. Buying more capable robots than the opposition isn't what makes someone a good pilot - and crying about losing the ability to select inferior opposition makes it pretty clear who is a "bad" pilot. |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 27, 2017 10:51:58 GMT -5
maybe those 11 other players should step up their game...the only fair way to run a mm is based off of gear level alone, throwing good pilots with lvl 6 bots against lvl 10 noobs is dumb...some people are bad at the game, it's how it is...stop coddeling the bads The game just stepped up for whiny Gepard drivers, which is why they are crying on the Rants page (ironically, while still chest-beating about how much more skilled they are) that it's unfair for them to have to face competition they don't have the skills to handle. Note that some Gepard drivers do have enough skill to compete, but (a) those people also know how to operate other platforms; so (b) they're not crying on the Rants page. Besides: if you thought gear level was a fair way to base matchmaking, how did you feel about using level 12 weapons against level 4 weapons, just because the old matchmaker treated a level 1 Gepard (with such high speed it could dictate when and where it engages, had medium health pre-nerf, and 3 light hardpoints) like it was so much weaker than a level 4 Patton (with abysmal speed, roughly the same health, and more light hardpoint) that it deserved an 8-level weapon handicap? That's roughly double the damage per weapon for only 25% fewer weapons, plus the amazing speed advantage!!! Far from coddling the bad players, fixing the matchmaker threw the gold-farming trimag and triaphid Gepard drivers out of their little exploit playpen and into the cold, hard reality of facing setups that can do comparable damage. Some people ARE bad at the game - you just seem to have a hard time recognizing which players those are. Protip: they're the ones who can't cope with new competition because all they knew how to do was point their trimag at slow-moving targets with squirt pistols, or to lob aphids over walls at setups that couldn't possibly shoot back. The old matchmaker ensured all 11 other players would lack lack both speed and weapons capability except occasionally for fellow exploiters who had also paid their Au for a permanent ticket to the kiddies shooting gallery. Buying more capable robots than the opposition isn't what makes someone a good pilot - and crying about losing the ability to select inferior opposition makes it pretty clear who is a "bad" pilot. Hahahaha, I have one gep and zero lvl 12 weapons, I'm not a clubber and will agree mm needed a fix I just don't believe throwing my hanger in with the other I posted is the answer...I'm guessing you're enjoying benefitting from the mm change so you can beat up on lower levels to get that rating up though... |
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Post by Conflict's Student on Jan 27, 2017 12:07:48 GMT -5
Hahahaha, I have one gep and zero lvl 12 weapons, I'm not a clubber and will agree mm needed a fix I just don't believe throwing my hanger in with the other I posted is the answer...I'm guessing you're enjoying benefitting from the mm change so you can beat up on lower levels to get that rating up though... Then you're not the guy I described ruining the experience for "the other 11," despite feeling the need to criticize "the other 11" I described. In fact that makes you one of "the other 11" who were being abused by MM-exploiting farmers. And I am absolutely enjoying the new MM, because I am getting crazy amounts of silver while going against mostly level 10 setups even though I'm still working on getting all of my stuff up to level 8 (almost there - maybe 1 more week). The matches generally go down to the wire and my win rate keeps fluctuating between 46% and 60%. The uncertainty of outcome makes each game more entertaining than when I was winning 60-80% of the time - not farming but admittedly benefiting from decades of gaming experience elsewhere. Now MM gives me superior competition that I've earned by playing well. I'm also getting WAY more silver with more opportunity to inflict damage on bigger bots, win or lose. I never really tracked gold because (a) the wiki shows how much upgrades cost and (b) I can do the math to realize I will always need silver more urgently than I need gold - especially since I never felt the need to waste gold on gepards and aphids in order to be able to farm more gold. So yeah, I benefit from the MM change but no, playing against lower levels would actually be a penalty. I didn't come here looking for easy wins. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Jan 27, 2017 12:11:35 GMT -5
The game just stepped up for whiny Gepard drivers, which is why they are crying on the Rants page (ironically, while still chest-beating about how much more skilled they are) that it's unfair for them to have to face competition they don't have the skills to handle. Note that some Gepard drivers do have enough skill to compete, but (a) those people also know how to operate other platforms; so (b) they're not crying on the Rants page. Besides: if you thought gear level was a fair way to base matchmaking, how did you feel about using level 12 weapons against level 4 weapons, just because the old matchmaker treated a level 1 Gepard (with such high speed it could dictate when and where it engages, had medium health pre-nerf, and 3 light hardpoints) like it was so much weaker than a level 4 Patton (with abysmal speed, roughly the same health, and more light hardpoint) that it deserved an 8-level weapon handicap? That's roughly double the damage per weapon for only 25% fewer weapons, plus the amazing speed advantage!!! Far from coddling the bad players, fixing the matchmaker threw the gold-farming trimag and triaphid Gepard drivers out of their little exploit playpen and into the cold, hard reality of facing setups that can do comparable damage. Some people ARE bad at the game - you just seem to have a hard time recognizing which players those are. Protip: they're the ones who can't cope with new competition because all they knew how to do was point their trimag at slow-moving targets with squirt pistols, or to lob aphids over walls at setups that couldn't possibly shoot back. The old matchmaker ensured all 11 other players would lack lack both speed and weapons capability except occasionally for fellow exploiters who had also paid their Au for a permanent ticket to the kiddies shooting gallery. Buying more capable robots than the opposition isn't what makes someone a good pilot - and crying about losing the ability to select inferior opposition makes it pretty clear who is a "bad" pilot. Hahahaha, I have one gep and zero lvl 12 weapons, I'm not a clubber and will agree mm needed a fix I just don't believe throwing my hanger in with the other I posted is the answer...I'm guessing you're enjoying benefitting from the mm change so you can beat up on lower levels to get that rating up though... See, he brought up valid points, and you twist it into him beating lower level folks up, or being a clubber... even though he didn't even say anything like that. IMHO... No, I am guessing from what he posted, that he is enjoying the increased challenge of the fights... as I am. MM has put me, in 7/9 mediums, against all manner of higher leveled players, I assume it was because I was consistently better than others my level after the change, as at first, it was like I had stayed in the exact tier I was in before MM change. Well, the competition ramped up for about two days after a long string of 1st places, and I was seeing tons of what was considered TT leveled players mixed in with HG... with my HS hanger. Now, after doing as well as I could at those games, and mostly losing, I have seen the competition drop about 2 levels on average, with the top player somewhere around 10/11 and the lowest around 8/8 (or 10/6 or 9/10, you get the idea... averages about the same.) Almost all are better than me level wise, but I am starting to place from from 4th place on up, more consistently. It is definitely a challenge. So much so I had to shift how I was playing in order to accommodate. Which is good, BTW. I was way too confident and had too much assuredness as to my ability to kill anything that came at me. Now, I am cautious, and more aware of my surroundings than I ever had to be. It is way more important to capitalize on both your strengths as a player and the bot's strengths that you are using at the time, than it was previously. Tactics actually matter now. Yes, even in my 7/9, I have taken out level 12 bots. But it was a pure challenge to do it, and man those individual bot battle wins made me a heckuva lot prouder than single-handedly carrying a game in the old MM, which was, essentially, guaranteed Au for days. Now, when I see I won 1 au for getting 3rd? I actually enjoy it. So yes, MM is more fun for him, and I'd guess it is because he rose to the challenge... not that he is enjoying beating up on lower leveled players. But that is a guess only... based on my own experience compared to the post you quoted, alone. As I feel what he said reflects very closely my own views on it, as things stand. |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 27, 2017 14:19:24 GMT -5
Hahahaha, I have one gep and zero lvl 12 weapons, I'm not a clubber and will agree mm needed a fix I just don't believe throwing my hanger in with the other I posted is the answer...I'm guessing you're enjoying benefitting from the mm change so you can beat up on lower levels to get that rating up though... See, he brought up valid points, and you twist it into him beating lower level folks up, or being a clubber... even though he didn't even say anything like that. IMHO... No, I am guessing from what he posted, that he is enjoying the increased challenge of the fights... as I am. MM has put me, in 7/9 mediums, against all manner of higher leveled players, I assume it was because I was consistently better than others my level after the change, as at first, it was like I had stayed in the exact tier I was in before MM change. Well, the competition ramped up for about two days after a long string of 1st places, and I was seeing tons of what was considered TT leveled players mixed in with HG... with my HS hanger. Now, after doing as well as I could at those games, and mostly losing, I have seen the competition drop about 2 levels on average, with the top player somewhere around 10/11 and the lowest around 8/8 (or 10/6 or 9/10, you get the idea... averages about the same.) Almost all are better than me level wise, but I am starting to place from from 4th place on up, more consistently. It is definitely a challenge. So much so I had to shift how I was playing in order to accommodate. Which is good, BTW. I was way too confident and had too much assuredness as to my ability to kill anything that came at me. Now, I am cautious, and more aware of my surroundings than I ever had to be. It is way more important to capitalize on both your strengths as a player and the bot's strengths that you are using at the time, than it was previously. Tactics actually matter now. Yes, even in my 7/9, I have taken out level 12 bots. But it was a pure challenge to do it, and man those individual bot battle wins made me a heckuva lot prouder than single-handedly carrying a game in the old MM, which was, essentially, guaranteed Au for days. Now, when I see I won 1 au for getting 3rd? I actually enjoy it. So yes, MM is more fun for him, and I'd guess it is because he rose to the challenge... not that he is enjoying beating up on lower leveled players. But that is a guess only... based on my own experience compared to the post you quoted, alone. As I feel what he said reflects very closely my own views on it, as things stand. You summed up my thought pretty well, I hate how anyone that questions the new mm system is immediately labeled a clubber... just gets frustrating going up against lvl 10's when I'm just outgeared...I have gotten better at dodging and avoiding damage which is great but I just get the feeling right now the better I get the system will constantly put me up against opponents that out gear me even further. No I don't want easy competition but at the same time I don't like improving only to get worked over for a few days and I don't know if everyone tanked their rating anticipating the lunar event but every match I get now is pay to play bots lvl 10+ |
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Post by nocluevok on Jan 28, 2017 3:15:08 GMT -5
I have one level 10 Gep with level 10 aphids. I didn't follow the conventional wisdom before the new MM kicked in and it has worked out well for me. I leveled the bot to 10 first.
I still get killed, but not before I can inflict damage...and I'm not suicidal enough to drag him out first or go after an undamaged Rhino or Lancelot.
I can't count the times I've paired up with another Gep and tag teamed a target. It works. No need to change bots, just change tactics. The Gep was never intended to be a clubbing bot in the first place.
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Post by AηɗυηєɗнєƖ [ǀƬA] on Jan 28, 2017 3:57:56 GMT -5
No need to change bots, just change tactics. That's, of course, true: I've personally see a full complement of gepard only from a top-25 clan devastate anything in their sight against "gold" bots by acting in groups of 2 or 3. However, that means sharing damage inflicted and team work, something the average gepard-only player can't conceive... gotta get those 10 golds,you know  |
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