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Post by lephturn on Jan 23, 2017 19:23:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to continue giving feedback about the new MM in iOS, but I followed dredd77's link from another thread, so here 'tis. When hearing about the new MM, I learned that some combination of hangar strength + the mysterious Elo would determine who I'd be matched with and up against, in a fight. I thought that running a hangar of 2 2/10 lights and 3 4/9 mediums would get me into a fight with pilots running similar bots and weapon levels. Maybe all 4/10-12 lights, all 4/9 mediums, a mix like mine, whatever. I would not have been surprised to see some low heavies in there too. But that's not what seems to have happened at all. What I see after nearly a week, is that MM builds teams with a variety of hangar levels. I'll see one guy running a maxed hangar, another 8/10 heavies or Gals, all 6/6 heavies, then pipsqueak hangars like mine. While teams may technically be balanced overall (each side has a maxed hangar, an 8/10 etc.) the level of players I team with and face is not balanced compared directly to my stats. The range of bot and weapon level runs the gamut. And there's the rub, the problem with how Pixo has organized MM. On average, I'm in the mix with 3 or 4 hangars that I cannot compete with. While I have hangars superior to mine as allies, it's still not a balanced fight based on my personal levels. This means that if I'm lucky to be on the winning side, I deal minimal damage and have a miniscule chance at earning any gold. I sure as hell don't lead the squad in damage or kills, and the fragility of my bots in comparison to the firepower I face makes beacon capping nearly impossible. It's also not a lot of fun, as in-game I'm limited to grabbing -- or trying -- one beacon at the onset before getting dead, then trying to find something useful to do besides be someone else's seal to club. Over the past 48 hours I've experimented with this. I ran my former day-to-day hangar mentioned above, I've run all L4 lights with < L9 wepaons, I've run my version of a gold hangar, and it makes no difference - MM still throws everyone together in one pot. I don't think a new MM that throws 98-pound weaklings in the same ring with the muscle heads is the right approach. A "league" system where all hangars share similar ratings within a range would more sense, or at least IMHO, would lead to much better gameplay and would probably eliminate most of -- if not all - the complaints I've heard, many of which I share. Sounds like you have a hangar full of bots with weapons much higher than the bots. That gets punished right now. If you run 4/12 lights you will see 12/12 heavies etc. The top weapon means a LOT right now, to the point where I think you need equal bot/weapon levels to really be competitive.
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Post by Blurred Vision on Jan 23, 2017 19:57:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to continue giving feedback about the new MM in iOS, but I followed dredd77's link from another thread, so here 'tis. When hearing about the new MM, I learned that some combination of hangar strength + the mysterious Elo would determine who I'd be matched with and up against, in a fight. I thought that running a hangar of 2 2/10 lights and 3 4/9 mediums would get me into a fight with pilots running similar bots and weapon levels. Maybe all 4/10-12 lights, all 4/9 mediums, a mix like mine, whatever. I would not have been surprised to see some low heavies in there too. But that's not what seems to have happened at all. What I see after nearly a week, is that MM builds teams with a variety of hangar levels. I'll see one guy running a maxed hangar, another 8/10 heavies or Gals, all 6/6 heavies, then pipsqueak hangars like mine. While teams may technically be balanced overall (each side has a maxed hangar, an 8/10 etc.) the level of players I team with and face is not balanced compared directly to my stats. The range of bot and weapon level runs the gamut. And there's the rub, the problem with how Pixo has organized MM. On average, I'm in the mix with 3 or 4 hangars that I cannot compete with. While I have hangars superior to mine as allies, it's still not a balanced fight based on my personal levels. This means that if I'm lucky to be on the winning side, I deal minimal damage and have a miniscule chance at earning any gold. I sure as hell don't lead the squad in damage or kills, and the fragility of my bots in comparison to the firepower I face makes beacon capping nearly impossible. It's also not a lot of fun, as in-game I'm limited to grabbing -- or trying -- one beacon at the onset before getting dead, then trying to find something useful to do besides be someone else's seal to club. Over the past 48 hours I've experimented with this. I ran my former day-to-day hangar mentioned above, I've run all L4 lights with < L9 wepaons, I've run my version of a gold hangar, and it makes no difference - MM still throws everyone together in one pot. I don't think a new MM that throws 98-pound weaklings in the same ring with the muscle heads is the right approach. A "league" system where all hangars share similar ratings within a range would more sense, or at least IMHO, would lead to much better gameplay and would probably eliminate most of -- if not all - the complaints I've heard, many of which I share. Sounds like you have a hangar full of bots with weapons much higher than the bots. That gets punished right now. If you run 4/12 lights you will see 12/12 heavies etc. The top weapon means a LOT right now, to the point where I think you need equal bot/weapon levels to really be competitive. Is 4/9 that unbalanced, or 2/6? Not being snide, asking honestly. Before the New Era I ran 2 L2 Geps, one with L10 Mags, the other with L10 Aphids so with 4/9 mediums, I could see how maybe that pushes me up. But when I tested the lowest hangar I could (w/o buying a bunch of 1/1 stuff), I had 2/5 Geps and 4/6 Cossacks, and still got tossed in with the big boys. My win rate is 50% right now, so I kinda expected to not see a TT Fury or Rhino for the first time in a week. I should also say that I expected to be grouped with other pilots who had high win rates. I know hangar level doesn't matter exclusively, but I anticipated same/equivalent hangars for everyone in the same battle, and a win rate +/- 10 or 15% of mine. I wonder why Pixo didn't consider slots as a determinant. If they coded MM so that a pilot with 3 slots never saw someone with 5, that would help solve much of the clubbing. More would have to go into it, as I know some great pilots with 4 slots and some rookies too, so that's a gray area. But basing battles on slots would really help the clubber problem. I know that some matches I won handily were because a new player over-extended and ran 3 6/5 heavies, and got bumped up. Hell, that would've happened to me too had I not posted a question to Tips & Advice here, and gotten great advice from Weed and Strayed. Hopefully that'll occur to Pixo and maybe help the quandary some.
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Post by Dredd77 on Jan 23, 2017 20:33:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to continue giving feedback about the new MM in iOS, but I followed dredd77's link from another thread, so here 'tis. When hearing about the new MM, I learned that some combination of hangar strength + the mysterious Elo would determine who I'd be matched with and up against, in a fight. I thought that running a hangar of 2 2/10 lights and 3 4/9 mediums would get me into a fight with pilots running similar bots and weapon levels. Maybe all 4/10-12 lights, all 4/9 mediums, a mix like mine, whatever. I would not have been surprised to see some low heavies in there too. But that's not what seems to have happened at all. What I see after nearly a week, is that MM builds teams with a variety of hangar levels. I'll see one guy running a maxed hangar, another 8/10 heavies or Gals, all 6/6 heavies, then pipsqueak hangars like mine. While teams may technically be balanced overall (each side has a maxed hangar, an 8/10 etc.) the level of players I team with and face is not balanced compared directly to my stats. The range of bot and weapon level runs the gamut. And there's the rub, the problem with how Pixo has organized MM. On average, I'm in the mix with 3 or 4 hangars that I cannot compete with. While I have hangars superior to mine as allies, it's still not a balanced fight based on my personal levels. This means that if I'm lucky to be on the winning side, I deal minimal damage and have a miniscule chance at earning any gold. I sure as hell don't lead the squad in damage or kills, and the fragility of my bots in comparison to the firepower I face makes beacon capping nearly impossible. It's also not a lot of fun, as in-game I'm limited to grabbing -- or trying -- one beacon at the onset before getting dead, then trying to find something useful to do besides be someone else's seal to club. Over the past 48 hours I've experimented with this. I ran my former day-to-day hangar mentioned above, I've run all L4 lights with < L9 wepaons, I've run my version of a gold hangar, and it makes no difference - MM still throws everyone together in one pot. I don't think a new MM that throws 98-pound weaklings in the same ring with the muscle heads is the right approach. A "league" system where all hangars share similar ratings within a range would more sense, or at least IMHO, would lead to much better gameplay and would probably eliminate most of -- if not all - the complaints I've heard, many of which I share. I love Light bots and I love Bronze play. I dearly wish there was some way I could play in Bronze-level mechs with pilots of roughly the same experience level as me (instead of the usual mix of new and old). I almost went for a Jesse in the WInter event, but held off figuring we could buy them after the event some time down the road. Now, in this new system, I have to ask myself, what's the point of the Jesse? So there you and I are in agreement. Like you, I've been placing further down the damage table than I'm used to. That part, I see as the challenge. I'm liking the new MM now, reservations aisde, because it's a good challenge. Of course, it seems the MM has found my level, I'm not seeing 12/12's anymore and haven't for awhile. Naturally, YMMV!
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 20:42:01 GMT -5
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Post by zman on Jan 23, 2017 20:44:10 GMT -5
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Post by Golden Sabre on Jan 23, 2017 20:48:16 GMT -5
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Post by NokiaSåmsung on Jan 23, 2017 21:45:07 GMT -5
So I've already played a lot since the MM recent change, and for the first time in my history since I started this game months ago, just now I lost every game for nearly 2 hrs straight. And I'm not even talking abt being top 3 etc, just a win from my side. Primary reason: a. More than OP opponents (nothing new anymore, sigh) b. Clan team opponents (nothing new either, sigh) c. Beginners (for heavens sake can Pix just delete noricums and zenith permanently) d. Beginners (can't believe with the bots/weapon they have, quite a few still have no clue of the importance of beacons) e. All of the above (this is where I thought shooting myself in the head seems a great idea) Then, finally I won a few rounds, made like below 20au. Next...(a) to (e) seems to repeat. I even gave up trying to get that 30au daily bonus for 8 wins. Another first for me...giving up a daily quest. Ofc I must admit it's also bedtime for me now lol. If my MM doesn't settle down...wait...will it ever? That's my day. Yours? What is your hanger strength? I take it you are Android and the MM just hit you. Give the thread I wrote summarzing the new MM and it should make more sense. If you are a Low/Mid strength hanger and have played enough to build up your Elo you have a few days of being the proverbial whipping boy ahead of you before the MM settles down, and it settles from the top down. war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/1719/new-explained-theory-experience-iosI'm IOS based, and I've also read your thread too. My hanger is abt 6/(7-8), a few weapons in queue for upgrading to 8. I'm not saying tht I'm good nor beginners are lousy, in case this is misunderstood. Just that the match ups are so lopsided most of the time, yesterday almost 2 hrs straight is a record for me. Lopsided not only in bots/weapons and lvls but also such as hanger slots, clan team opponents etc. Major imbalancing tht is. And lopsided not only when I lose. When my team of random wins, we tend to thrash of sort the opponents of sorts toof in many instances. At least thts wht I tend to see. Once in a long while I get a good evenly matched game (irrespective of a win or lose) So this new MM gives me an impression (so far) tht it works occasionally but fails for most of other time. Oh, again, can Pix delete noricums and zenits? Replace them with flashbang or something more useful lol. Derailing from topic, with so many issues now I wonder if having a 5 slots of quad noricums for a few days would cheer up gamers a little...hmmmm.
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Post by mechtout on Jan 23, 2017 23:51:13 GMT -5
I'm a level 6 bot with level 8 weapons and have been playing heavily since the new mm update. still getting regular matches like this one, facing a maxed out DMN clan. So when does this start producing those down to the wire edge of your seat matches? :/
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Jan 24, 2017 4:38:32 GMT -5
Here's a different example. My six-year-old son plays. I love that he does, and he has a blast win or lose, but... being honest, from a skill perspective, well, he's six. He also loves to spend all his resources on whatever catches his eye. A Leo, most recently. Under the old system, Liam's blind choice of bots and total ignorance of the mm system (and the repercussions of his purchasing) bumped him up in the tiers. He was going up against vastly more skilled competition because of his hangar, despite a very low level of skill. Now, he can run those same bots at will, and his consistent performance will ensure he at least will be up against people who might need a couple more minutes to mech him out. Just a thought. That. Now, I haven't read the whole thread yet, so when I finally get there I'll post something of more relevance, but... My daughter is the same, she's six and plays ios. Her favourite bot is her 1/5 Zeus Raijin with that fancy paintjob. Her other three bots include a 1/2 Molot Patton, 1/2.3 Thunder Punisher Golem and a 1/5 Punisher Cossack because "I like the jumping one". Under the old MM system the Raijin would throw her straight into Low Silver, I think. It sucks that should she use her wow factor bot she gets thrown against far higher skilled players. To the point she plain got over dying so easily. And so, kinda lost interest in playing (she still watches me though, and loves my Fujin and Rog). Geared up or not, if she wants to wander the battlefield looking at stuff, then so be it, not like she's in a competitive clan or anything. If the new MM brings her fun play then great, if not theres a tonne more stuff to do outside War Robots. Anyway, I'll read the rest later and poat accordingly, just wanted to share my pain with Dredd.
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salty af
Destrier
Saltesers' personal account
Posts: 76
Karma: 52
Pilot name: sierra alpha lima tango
Platform: iOS
League: Diamond
Favorite robot: Cossack
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Post by salty af on Jan 24, 2017 5:52:57 GMT -5
Elo not shown
Bragging rights not shown
Well there goes the last drop of my will to play this game
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Jan 24, 2017 9:31:15 GMT -5
Righteo. Just put five or so games in.
My initial reaction was that feeling you got when you moved up a tier. Tonights session yielded far more Trident Furies, but not much new in other regards.
Random profile checking post-match revealed a slight boost in opponent equipment, but damage and win rates similar to my own. Only one match presented me with a High Gold player with 11/12 heavies.
Either I'm just playing badly tonight or the new MM thinks I need to step it up a notch. We'll see.
Perhaps I should raise my 6/8 mediums to 7 or 8/8. Perhaps I just need a bit more durability.
Side note, that buff given to Leos makes them hardy as all hell. It's like it got lessons from a Boa.
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Post by lephturn on Jan 24, 2017 9:37:15 GMT -5
Frankly, yes. Based on what I've seen your 4/9 lights will put you against 9/8 heavies if you have any kind of a decent win rate. If you have a high Elo you might have somebody on red running 10/10 with a low Elo. It looks to me like highest weapon basically sets the equipment level or heavily weights it that direction. To the point where I suspect the most efficient setup is going to be either bots=weapons or possibly even bots +1 or 2 over weapons. I suspect # of slots is actually being considered. I say this because I am frequently in games that turn out to be very close despite the enemy bots being substantially above my own. When I dig into their hangars after the match, I often find that the guy with the Raijin 8/6 and 2 other big heavies I felt outmatched by only had 3 slots. I got smacked around by him early, but we win by meching the reds out. It might just be luck and it might just be that the guys with a lower Elo tend to have 3 slots - and lower Elo + higher gear = my lower gear and higher Elo. I'm not saying I'm great or anything, but judging by the win rates of many of the red players I face that out-gear me, I think it's likely that it really is a decent match when you combine equipment with Elo.
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Post by cantrunfromme on Jan 24, 2017 11:05:39 GMT -5
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 24, 2017 11:15:53 GMT -5
Frankly, yes. Based on what I've seen your 4/9 lights will put you against 9/8 heavies if you have any kind of a decent win rate. If you have a high Elo you might have somebody on red running 10/10 with a low Elo. It looks to me like highest weapon basically sets the equipment level or heavily weights it that direction. To the point where I suspect the most efficient setup is going to be either bots=weapons or possibly even bots +1 or 2 over weapons. I suspect # of slots is actually being considered. I say this because I am frequently in games that turn out to be very close despite the enemy bots being substantially above my own. When I dig into their hangars after the match, I often find that the guy with the Raijin 8/6 and 2 other big heavies I felt outmatched by only had 3 slots. I got smacked around by him early, but we win by meching the reds out. It might just be luck and it might just be that the guys with a lower Elo tend to have 3 slots - and lower Elo + higher gear = my lower gear and higher Elo. I'm not saying I'm great or anything, but judging by the win rates of many of the red players I face that out-gear me, I think it's likely that it really is a decent match when you combine equipment with Elo. lephturn Completely agree with your observations. I run a H6/9 line up with a 60-70% win rate and I'm seeing the same thing when I solo or run 2-4 man squads....some matches start off really tough and as we destroy red bots, we see the red team going down on players. Red squad has (relative to us): - low win rate (30- below 50%) / higher power weps and bots / more 3 and 4 hanger slot players - high win rate (50-80%) / lower or equivalent weps / 5 slot hangers - about equivalent players to use with 50-60% win rates The times where this doesn't hold true is in 5 or 6 man squads - there we see a lot of matches against H12/12 squads, especially at peak times. I think petvb (12/12 pilot who is in a top clan VOX) mentions this as well in another thread - 50% of his matches are against squads like mine - frustrating and not fun for either one of us. We've just stopped running those squads to avoid the slaughter but miss the ability to do it (sniff sniff). So lessons for newer players as they think about their hangers: 1. If you went up in bot/wep levels to escape silver clans in the old MM, maybe rethink what line ups you are running now with the new MM 2. 4th and 5th slots are critical unless you are okay being a match premature ejector and having no staying power....."slam bam thank you ma'am" and 30 seconds of fun make for a very bad experience for your partners (and maybe a real life lesson for you to consider as well). Cheers!
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Post by lephturn on Jan 24, 2017 12:23:21 GMT -5
Great points boomsplatThe only thing I'm not sure about right now is if hanger slots are actually taken into account, or if it is just a correlation between 5 slot hangars and people that are decent players. It could easily be that the decent players who are smart enough to come to the forums are highly likely to have 5 slots, where as less skilled players (read clueless noobs) are very likely to have a couple of heavies and a 3 slot hangar.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 24, 2017 12:44:08 GMT -5
Great points boomsplat The only thing I'm not sure about right now is if hanger slots are actually taken into account, or if it is just a correlation between 5 slot hangars and people that are decent players. It could easily be that the decent players who are smart enough to come to the forums are highly likely to have 5 slots, where as less skilled players (read clueless noobs) are very likely to have a couple of heavies and a 3 slot hangar. lephturnThe # of hanger slots has been the thing I've been debating myself as I look at my matches. You are probably right as it is seems a direct correlation with win rate as I kinda make that point in my last post on lessons to new players. Thanks for the observations! Cheers!
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