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Post by amoebastudios on Jan 22, 2017 0:44:24 GMT -5
After playing 100 rounds or so, it's pretty obvious this change will primarily benefit paying players who have bought preimum bots/max weapons who will reap the rewards. Players who have bots/weapons to the highest 11/12 levels and earn the most damage-based gold and survive long enough to capture beacons. As others have said, it's gold clubbing. The problem is that it becomes very difficult for free players to be competitive. Free players can't earn gold/silver and will fall further and further behind. Since free players can only win 50% of the games and low chance at placing gold (due to low damage output), the earned income will take much much longer. You could play 10-20 games and barely get any gold/silver. At least that's been my experience. For example, note the win rate (80%+) of top tier players vs 40-50% for normal players under new MM. Not hard to see the disparity between what TT guys vs average player base.  |
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Post by CΛΜΡΞΓ™ on Jan 22, 2017 0:46:16 GMT -5
Ive spent lots on this game, and im not seeing the benefits at all. This is a very skewed perspective. The only players that are benefitting from this matchmaking is high gold and top players (abd even then i wouldn't really say benefitting, as they would rather have some tough competition as opposed to weak opponents).
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Post by EatStinkyTofu on Jan 22, 2017 1:25:07 GMT -5
I find the new MM confusing, however my win rate has been steadily climbing, now close to 75%. Its probably not because I've spent maybe $20/year on the game. I also agree that top tier players really aren't benefiting--general feedback from those I've talked to is that they don't have fun rolling over lower tier players since it takes out skill and strategy out of the game.
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Post by zman on Jan 22, 2017 1:31:25 GMT -5
You are very much wrong.
The problem is that it takes the entire active player base to establish an Elo before the game settles. Essentially it starts at the top and works down. As a High gold okayer, almost entirely a free player, I can say it has gotten much better. So, it has begun to. Penalize down to Hogh gold and it'll have to work its way down. Weak hangers piloted by good pilots get the worst of it because they end up having to face all the strong hangers who have yet to establish their Elos.
You playing tons of games doesn't do anything until more players have established their Elos and moved beyond your level.
Give it a few more days and I bet it gets better each day. It certainly has up by me.
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 7:54:13 GMT -5
100% cash grab disguised as a solution to clubbing
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Post by Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ on Jan 22, 2017 9:49:34 GMT -5
Not saying that there is truth to your assertion but IMHO paying players are how Pixonic comes to work every day to keep the whole game you love going. The people who play this game and contribute little or no money to the group of talent that made this game should be at a disadvantage. No money to Devs means no game. Pay them their due. The capitalistic entrepreneurial spirit brings you all the stuff you love everyday - profit isn't evil.
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BumbleBeast
Destrier
Posts: 48
Karma: 8
Pilot name: BumbleBeast
Platform: iOS
League: Expert
Favorite robot: Lancelot
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Post by BumbleBeast on Jan 22, 2017 10:43:49 GMT -5
I think that this new MM is great, even though I have not paid for gold in this game. Right after the new MM I was joining games for a minute and then leaving, usually losing the game. That brought my win percentage down to 35%, after that, I demolished the other team getting ten gold every time. Now I figured out that I can just play normally, and my win rate is at 70%. I have a plasma rhino, a rdb griffin, a taran aphid griffin, and a thunder pinata Leo. Everything is lvl 7.
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Post by morgemil on Jan 22, 2017 10:44:49 GMT -5
 This is my hangar from just before the Christmas event. I earned my galahad the day the event started, I spent the next couple if days leveling it. On the fourth day of the event I earned my first 1mil+ score. Before the event I had spent less than $10 on the game. On the last day of the event I spent around $50 on snowflakes to ensure I got to open a super chest. My Lancelot was my prize from that chest.  Here is my hangar a few days after the event. Notice anything interesting? Gaining a Lancelot didn't turn me in to an unstoppable god of destruction. Apart from getting a slightly higher max damage score my performance is pretty much identical. That's because the lance didn't suddenly improve my skills, that $50 didn't manifest as perfect decision making and tactical awareness. All it did was give me a new toy to play with. Aside from geps in bronze paying to win is impossible in this game. As long as you keep the power level of your hangar even across all bots you will face opponents whose equipment is no better than yours, with a bit of variation due to mm inconsistencies of course. The new mm will not reward paying players any more than it ever did because your hangar will still be factored into your placement. It simply adds your "skill" to this in an effort to keep highly skilled players with overpowered bots out of the lower tiers. How well this works overall remains to be seen, it's still very early. But it certainly won't reward spending, if anything, it will punish those who spend to advance there hangar beyond their skill level. |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 12:01:42 GMT -5
I think that this new MM is great, even though I have not paid for gold in this game. Right after the new MM I was joining games for a minute and then leaving, usually losing the game. That brought my win percentage down to 35%, after that, I demolished the other team getting ten gold every time. Now I figured out that I can just play normally, and my win rate is at 70%. I have a plasma rhino, a rdb griffin, a taran aphid griffin, and a thunder pinata Leo. Everything is lvl 7. New mm is great for ppl who are bad at the game because it keeps giving you easier competition until you can win no matter how much you out gear them...aka clubbing |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 12:27:08 GMT -5
@ Morgemil: absolutely great post. This is one of the best perspectives on spending money I've read on the forum.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 22, 2017 12:43:33 GMT -5
The only advantage a paying player will have is to be able to buy the latest toy, get to 5 slots faster, and upgrade faster. Theoretically as they upgrade the competition will get stronger. So either they develop the skills to use the bots/weps they get or they won't. In some regards, coining could be a disadvantage because you can easily get in over your head with levels.
If you don't pay, then it will just take longer for everything. I bought premium for awhile to amass silver for the impending lvl 10-12 upgrades but have stopped to see if I want to continue up. Frankly, whether you pay or not is inconsequential to me - totally a personal decision.
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Post by boomsplat on Jan 22, 2017 12:47:29 GMT -5
Here is my hangar a few days after the event. Notice anything interesting? Gaining a Lancelot didn't turn me in to an unstoppable god of destruction. Apart from getting a slightly higher max damage score my performance is pretty much identical. That's because the lance didn't suddenly improve my skills, that $50 didn't manifest as perfect decision making and tactical awareness. All it did was give me a new toy to play with. Hmm...you went up 4 points in your win rate to 92% - clearly a clubber as it sure can't be skills according to some  nice post and right on target - are you IOS or android. If iOS, how have you faired in the new MM system? cheers! |
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Post by amoebastudios on Jan 22, 2017 13:42:42 GMT -5
Let me give another perspective on this through the game results that I've seen. I'd like to consider myself an above average player and I'm close to 70% win rate in the new MM running 8/8 medium hangar. However 70% win rate != earning gold.
With 8/8 hangar I'm constantly being pitted against 10/10 players. I play guerrilla warfare and win some matches, but I rarely place high enough to earn gold. The game, seeing that I'm still winning, starts pitting me against 11/12 TT players. Incredibly, I'm still winning rounds, but not because I'm putting serious damage but because my teammates are. Once again, I'm not earning any gold.
I try to win for the team by capping beacons and popping in to finish bots off. That translates to higher win rate but I get punished for it with no gold even when winning. Meanwhile I see blues ignoring beacons and just going in head-on to deal massive damage for gold. What chance do I have to progress in this setup?
The only fair chance of earning gold for a better pilot is to play against other 8/8 hangar and coming out on top through skill. That won't happen no matter how long it takes elo to "settle" because MM will always put me up against bigger bots due to my win rate. I can't play against similar players, and when I play against bigger bots I don't deal enough damage. The gold bot players are earning all the gold.
The only time there will be fair games is when I get to 12/12 myself against other 12/12s. Only then can I earn more gold based on skill. That'll take at least half a year and by then current top players would've amassed so much gold that they can buy/max whatever new bots that comes out. Me, as a low paying player (Spent about $50 so far), can not catch up and be competitive in this new MM.
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 13:49:01 GMT -5
Let me give another perspective on this through the game results that I've seen. I'd like to consider myself an above average player and I'm close to 70% win rate in the new MM running 8/8 medium hangar. However 70% win rate != earning gold. With 8/8 hangar I'm constantly being pitted against 10/10 players. I play guerrilla warfare and win some matches, but I rarely place high enough to earn gold. The game, seeing that I'm still winning, starts pitting me against 11/12 TT players. Incredibly, I'm still winning rounds, but not because I'm putting serious damage but because my teammates are. Once again, I'm not earning any gold. I try to win for the team by capping beacons and popping in to finish bots off. That translates to higher win rate but I get punished for it with no gold even when winning. Meanwhile I see blues ignoring beacons and just going in head-on to deal massive damage for gold. What chance do I have to progress in this setup? The only fair chance of earning gold for a better pilot is to play against other 8/8 hangar and coming out on top through skill. That won't happen no matter how long it takes elo to "settle" because MM will always put me up against bigger bots due to my win rate. I can't play against similar players, and when I play against bigger bots I don't deal enough damage. The gold bot players are earning all the gold. The only time there will be fair games is when I get to 12/12 myself against other 12/12s. Only then can I earn more gold based on skill. That'll take at least half a year and by then current top players would've amassed so much gold that they can buy/max whatever new bots that comes out. Me, as a low paying player (Spent about $50 so far), can not catch up and be competitive in this new MM. This is the problem I'm currently having, I can't buy a match with bots close to my level and I can't get my rating down to see equal competition because a: I can't bring myself to sit and lose and b: pix says they're going to ban ppl that do this...here's a thought; fix your broken system and people won't have to find ways around it. Bot level should be the determining factor for match ups period, if you're bad at the game then your win % should reflect it. Stop handing bads wins by giving them easier competition while making me bang my head against inflated health pools with lesser weapons... |
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Post by morgemil on Jan 22, 2017 13:50:01 GMT -5
I'm on android. I'm running a low gold hangar, soon to move to 8/10s or 9/11s, so I don't expect to be inconvenienced over much during its early growing pains. That's the thing everyone needs to remember here, now is not the time to try collecting data about how the new mm is going to place a given player. Elo systems require a lot of data to work properly. That requires a lot of people playing a lot of games. I'd be surprised if it stabilizes in less than a month honestly.
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 22, 2017 14:22:26 GMT -5
I completely disagree with the OP. I have spent very little RM on my iOS account, and it's still relatively 'new', and yet I'm loving the new MM. I have no WSP bots, and only a single Gepard, with only a few Au or WSP weapons. My win rates are climbing along with the rest of my stats. My opponents are getting actually challenging, although I still haven't seemed to escape being surrounded by idiots when I run solo.
I do sympathize with the genuine players that are seeing extreme examples of the flaws inherent in implementing a performance rating system into an existing ecology. These are growing pains, and this too shall pass.
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 14:52:58 GMT -5
I completely disagree with the OP. I have spent very little RM on my iOS account, and it's still relatively 'new', and yet I'm loving the new MM. I have no WSP bots, and only a single Gepard, with only a few Au or WSP weapons. My win rates are climbing along with the rest of my stats. My opponents are getting actually challenging, although I still haven't seemed to escape being surrounded by idiots when I run solo. I do sympathize with the genuine players that are seeing extreme examples of the flaws inherent in implementing a performance rating system into an existing ecology. These are growing pains, and this too shall pass. again if your numbers were down with the old mm and suddenly started going up after it came out that's probably a L2P issue, the system is giving you easier competition that's more than likely below your gear level so you can compete |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 22, 2017 15:03:15 GMT -5
No, it's the complete opposite. The only times I lose are due to lame teammates. This is the best hanger I can field right now, and it is consistently kickass.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 15:05:34 GMT -5
After playing 100 rounds or so, it's pretty obvious this change will primarily benefit paying players who have bought gold bots/weapons who will reap the rewards. Gold players have bots/weapons to the highest 11/12 levels and earn the most damage-based gold and survive long enough to capture beacons. As others have said, it's gold clubbing. The problem is that it becomes very difficult for free players to be competitive. Free players can't earn gold/silver and will fall further and further behind. Since free players can only win 50% of the games and low chance at placing gold (due to low damage output), the earned income will take much much longer. You could play 10-20 games and barely get any gold/silver. At least that's been my experience. Everything has been full of trident Furies and Aphids now. My none of my bots can survive now because they are constantly putting me with 12/12 when I am playing 6/8s. This is just not skill based anymore. My win rate went from a 78%-50 something %. Games are not even fair now; I get put against a clan that as at least 8-10 midrangers, and half of my team decide to ditch the round. |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 15:12:17 GMT -5
After playing 100 rounds or so, it's pretty obvious this change will primarily benefit paying players who have bought gold bots/weapons who will reap the rewards. Gold players have bots/weapons to the highest 11/12 levels and earn the most damage-based gold and survive long enough to capture beacons. As others have said, it's gold clubbing. The problem is that it becomes very difficult for free players to be competitive. Free players can't earn gold/silver and will fall further and further behind. Since free players can only win 50% of the games and low chance at placing gold (due to low damage output), the earned income will take much much longer. You could play 10-20 games and barely get any gold/silver. At least that's been my experience. Everything has been full of trident Furies and Aphids now. My none of my bots can survive now because they are constantly putting me with 12/12 when I am playing 6/8s. This is just not skill based anymore. My win rate went from a 78%-50 something %. Games are not even fair now; I get put against a clan that as at least 8-10 midrangers, and half of my team decide to ditch the round. that seems to be how the mm works, eventually everyone will be around 50% win/loss except top teir |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 15:14:18 GMT -5
No, it's the complete opposite. The only times I lose are due to lame teammates. This is the best hanger I can field right now, and it is consistently kickass. this picture does no good without knowing the level of your current competition which I'm assuming is less geared than you since you're able to win matches now and you said you were losing before against equal competition with the old mm |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 15:35:12 GMT -5
Everything has been full of trident Furies and Aphids now. My none of my bots can survive now because they are constantly putting me with 12/12 when I am playing 6/8s. This is just not skill based anymore. My win rate went from a 78%-50 something %. Games are not even fair now; I get put against a clan that as at least 8-10 midrangers, and half of my team decide to ditch the round. that seems to be how the mm works, eventually everyone will be around 50% win/loss except top teir It's is not fair that my skill will be matched with people with 12/12 Fury tridents that press the red button ever 12 seconds. Skilled players should have >60% while unskilled players should have <40% |
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odin63
Destrier
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Post by odin63 on Jan 22, 2017 15:36:39 GMT -5
You are very much wrong. The problem is that it takes the entire active player base to establish an Elo before the game settles. Essentially it starts at the top and works down. As a High gold okayer, almost entirely a free player, I can say it has gotten much better. So, it has begun to. Penalize down to Hogh gold and it'll have to work its way down. Weak hangers piloted by good pilots get the worst of it because they end up having to face all the strong hangers who have yet to establish their Elos. You playing tons of games doesn't do anything until more players have established their Elos and moved beyond your level. Give it a few more days and I bet it gets better each day. It certainly has up by me. Not getting any better for me. Down below 50% on a very steady decline and wins are few and far between. I've changed my hanger every 10 - 20 matches, and seeing no positive effects. I'm usually in the top 3 slots on my team (if not in the game,) but it's almost never enough for a win. I'll give it a week, and if things haven't changed I'm moving on to better and more fun opportunities. I think this change is going to kill this game. |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 15:48:40 GMT -5
that seems to be how the mm works, eventually everyone will be around 50% win/loss except top teir It's is not fair that my skill will be matched with people with 12/12 Fury tridents that press the red button ever 12 seconds. Skilled players should have >60% while unskilled players should have <40% agree 100% |
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Post by lilryry on Jan 22, 2017 15:52:45 GMT -5
You are very much wrong. The problem is that it takes the entire active player base to establish an Elo before the game settles. Essentially it starts at the top and works down. As a High gold okayer, almost entirely a free player, I can say it has gotten much better. So, it has begun to. Penalize down to Hogh gold and it'll have to work its way down. Weak hangers piloted by good pilots get the worst of it because they end up having to face all the strong hangers who have yet to establish their Elos. You playing tons of games doesn't do anything until more players have established their Elos and moved beyond your level. Give it a few more days and I bet it gets better each day. It certainly has up by me. Not getting any better for me. Down below 50% on a very steady decline and wins are few and far between. I've changed my hanger every 10 - 20 matches, and seeing no positive effects. I'm usually in the top 3 slots on my team (if not in the game,) but it's almost never enough for a win. I'll give it a week, and if things haven't changed I'm moving on to better and more fun opportunities. I think this change is going to kill this game. absolutly nothing with the match making has changed for me either and I've put in several hours since the update, speaking of it what other games are comparable to this one? I just started playing this one a couple weeks ago and had been singing it's praises for several days telling my friends to try it but with this update I wont hang on for long when I'm literally fighting bots twice my level every match so what else is out there like this I can try if things remain the same with this one? |
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Post by amoebastudios on Jan 22, 2017 16:21:40 GMT -5
No, it's the complete opposite. The only times I lose are due to lame teammates. This is the best hanger I can field right now, and it is consistently kickass. That hangar stands no chance against the 10/10 or 11/12 hangars I've been fighting against. You should put up what your competition is. |
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Post by ł⸰§ĦȺĐ◎ŴƧŦḀɌ on Jan 22, 2017 16:24:03 GMT -5
this picture does no good without knowing the level of your current competition which I'm assuming is less geared than you since you're able to win matches now and you said you were losing before against equal competition with the old mm I said that where? Under the old MM I might as well have been a seal clubber, in the sense that I'm very experienced, but was stuck in lower tiers because of lack of access to premium gear (as opposed to deliberately exploiting your HS). The only times I lost were due to piss-poor teammates or other clubbers. Since the new MM dropped, my win rate has fluctuated more, and fell to about 65% (quitters and crap teammates, but not clubbers), but after the 1st 2 days, my rate rate is steadily climbing back up. Too much Chicken Little, waaay too much envy. Edit: I'll get some screens of the competition later... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 17:36:45 GMT -5
It's is not fair that my skill will be matched with people with 12/12 Fury tridents that press the red button ever 12 seconds. Skilled players should have >60% while unskilled players should have <40% agree 100% No matter how much skill a person has, they cannot beat a top tier hangar using 6/8s. Maybe they can beat an unskilled user with 8/10s, but at that point, you pretty much know most of the things in game |
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Post by KaneoheGrown on Jan 22, 2017 17:50:58 GMT -5
Sorry, but as a top tier player expecting a >60% win rate in top end (soloing) is unrealistic. I normally end up as 1 or 2 for top damage every solo match but I'll average around 58% win rate (or lower). The only times I can expect to run a >50% win rate is when I'm running with a squad.
So for those that question whether 50% win rates as the new mm average, yes that's what you should be at. For those that are above 50% and are outmatched in mm, I believe the mm is working properly trying to find you tougher matches.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 18:07:02 GMT -5
I was a low gold player. I wouldn't mind losing to a full clan of players with similarly level hangars, but the idea to winning against top tier randoms is impossible
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