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Post by SuperHero on Jan 19, 2017 4:26:26 GMT -5
I run 4 lvl 3 Cossacks with lvl 4 Punishers. Now I'm running them against Galahad and Furies just because I'm lvl 30? This makes no sense. Forcing uselessness into bots makes no sense. Building in a "noob tier" makes a lot of sense, but after that, battles should be based on bot lvl not player lvl. There is no way to try something new if you are always playing against lvl 8/10 Plasma Griffons or someone who ranges 3 trees from across the map. I'll play all day long against lvl 30 players, running the same lvl bots against me, but there is no way that my lvl 3 Cossacks should be up against lvl 6-8 plasma Galahads. I like Ike this game, and have a in progress silver tier team. But the most enjoyment I get has been lower lvl play with E Q U A L lvl bots. I hate Gep's with plasma, and think THEY were the biggest impediment to the game at low lvls. But... the game just became a lot less enjoyable... I'm glad I haven't spent real money, because if I had, I'd be furious when I quit. The problem is that equal level bots doesnt make you an equal level PLAYER. Nor does equal level bots mean equal level WEAPONS. Under the old tier system, a level 3 Cossack could remain in Low Silver with a level 12 (MAXED) Taran or Orkan. And THAT knowledge only came if you had played the game long enough to exploit the MM. That Cossack (or worse, a 4/12 Mag Gep) was able to the crush all your so-called "equal bots". So unless you say that your weapons were also equal level, then it was never really equal. The game was also designed for the higher level players to play with higher level players. You experience as a level 30 gives you an unfair advantage regardless of bot levels against new players. That being said, the new MM doesn't take your player into account that much. Your win-rate from playing with lower players must be very high, thus throwing you into games against "better" players.
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Post by - Exteel 2.0 on Jan 19, 2017 4:28:28 GMT -5
I'm just going to start lighting you people on fire.
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 19, 2017 4:30:26 GMT -5
I run 4 lvl 3 Cossacks with lvl 4 Punishers. Now I'm running them against Galahad and Furies just because I'm lvl 30? This makes no sense. Forcing uselessness into bots makes no sense. Building in a "noob tier" makes a lot of sense, but after that, battles should be based on bot lvl not player lvl. There is no way to try something new if you are always playing against lvl 8/10 Plasma Griffons or someone who ranges 3 trees from across the map. I'll play all day long against lvl 30 players, running the same lvl bots against me, but there is no way that my lvl 3 Cossacks should be up against lvl 6-8 plasma Galahads. I like Ike this game, and have a in progress silver tier team. But the most enjoyment I get has been lower lvl play with E Q U A L lvl bots. I hate Gep's with plasma, and think THEY were the biggest impediment to the game at low lvls. But... the game just became a lot less enjoyable... I'm glad I haven't spent real money, because if I had, I'd be furious when I quit. They're not basing the new changes on player level.
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Post by ivx on Jan 19, 2017 5:03:46 GMT -5
The problem is that equal level bots doesnt make you an equal level PLAYER. Nor does equal level bots mean equal level WEAPONS. ... so base the new MM on Elo, but implement hard brackets for bots and weapons. That way we *will* play in our tier, but against other equally skilled people with equally high or low weapons. Under the old tier system, a level 3 Cossack could remain in Low Silver with a level 12 (MAXED) Taran or Orkan. And THAT knowledge only came if you had played the game long enough to exploit the MM. That Cossack (or worse, a 4/12 Mag Gep) was able to the crush all your so-called "equal bots". So unless you say that your weapons were also equal level, then it was never really equal. Yes, but under the new MM the disparities are even greater across the board. Right now, that is - remains to be seen how much or little that will change. The fact is that you can get Destriers and Pattons and run against 12/12 plasma death machines. "Fair"? "Rewarding skill"? Fairly matching according to skill? Not really. Equipment still plays a huge difference, only now that difference is taken advantage of by the high level hangar players. That may change as it settles, we'll see. The game was also designed for the higher level players to play with higher level players. You experience as a level 30 gives you an unfair advantage regardless of bot levels against new players. That being said, the new MM doesn't take your player into account that much. Your win-rate from playing with lower players must be very high, thus throwing you into games against "better" players. Yes, but not all of us want to play the only thing viable to play in high levels and being level 30 absolutely doesn't equate high level bots unless you spent hundreds to speed up timers. This game was like a series of mini-games where you'd choose your tiers and play a completely different game with a completely different set of rules and conditions depending on what you chose to play with. Being stuck with large slow bots isn't for everyone. It looks like, somewhat ironically, the game may lose a lot of its variety and richness by Pix enabling people to play whatever they want without limits or penalties.
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Post by - Exteel 2.0 on Jan 19, 2017 5:08:39 GMT -5
*gets lighter fluid and torches*
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Post by SuperHero on Jan 19, 2017 5:30:31 GMT -5
... so base the new MM on Elo, but implement hard brackets for bots and weapons. That way we *will* play in our tier, but against other equally skilled people with equally high or low weapons.Response: That was the original problem. People abused the hard brackets leading to things like the 4/12 Mag gep. Everyone will just be playing the ceiling of that bracket, so whats the point? And can you imagine how many subsets that will create? Level 10 (bots levels xxx) Level 20 (bot levels xxx) Level 30 (bot levels xxx) Level 10 (bots levels yyy) Level 20 (bot levels yyy) Level 30 (bot levels yyy) Level 10 (bots levels zzz) Level 20 (bot levels zzz) Level 30 (bot levels zzz) etc etc etc..... there are not enough players to fill all those brackets. And the devs will go insane.
Jan 19, 2017 17:03:46 GMT 7 ivx said: Yes, but under the new MM the disparities are even greater across the board. Right now, that is - remains to be seen how much or little that will change. The fact is that you can get Destriers and Pattons and run against 12/12 plasma death machines. "Fair"? "Rewarding skill"? Fairly matching according to skill? Not really. Equipment still plays a huge difference, only now that difference is taken advantage of by the high level hangar players. That may change as it settles, we'll see.The reason this is occurring because everyone is currently starting at zero with the new MM. So things will balance out. If it is being based on previous win-rates, then that will balance out as well when seal clubbers have their win rates drop.
Jan 19, 2017 17:03:46 GMT 7 ivx said: Yes, but not all of us want to play the only thing viable to play in high levels and being level 30 absolutely doesn't equate high level bots unless you spent hundreds to speed up timers. This game was like a series of mini-games where you'd choose your tiers and play a completely different game with a completely different set of rules and conditions depending on what you chose to play with. Being stuck with large slow bots isn't for everyone. It looks like, somewhat ironically, the game may lose a lot of its variety and richness by Pix enabling people to play whatever they want without limits or penalties.I agree that level 30 doesnt equate to high level bots. I myself slogged like crazy after hitting level 30 before getting anywhere near the semblance of a gold hangar. This is also because I'm a casual player who probably spends more time helping the forum now than actually playing the game! And do note that there are many players in gold running around with geps and stalkers and doing well and serving their clans well. The problem was again that the tiers were being exploited to the extent that people were complaining about the game on App Store. Unfortunately, if you want the game to survive, there HAS to be some limits and penalties. I'd frankly like to know the win rates of all the silver players who are complaining about the MM. From what I have seen on the forum as well as on FB, most of the have 75% and higher win-rates. Please tell me that something doesnt smell fishy if everything is meant to be equal? Frankly, I have a silver hangar and a gold hangar and I can say that in general, the "richness" you speak of is a myth. Low silver has become mag gepard heaven where most gep pilots dont even know how to jink and swerve to avoid enemy fire. Why? Because they know that they have the meta bot for the tier. They just bulldoze through without much skill. Skill only appears when silver clans meet to battle. And even that is generally a gepard fest. So please don't use variety and richness to justify it. TECHNICALLY, you could use ANY bot in any tier, and I have seen Pattons, Stalkers, Gepards do well in the hands of great pilots. I recently had an insane time running around cover in Springfield in a Gep (Gold Tier) avoiding a Lance and trying to hold the beacon long enough for my backup to arrive. It's all usable, but the playstyle is different and IMO probably even involves MORE skill. I actually think that Pix is doing this in order to bring MORE balance and variety to the game. But yes, we shall see if it really works. And I'm not a complete Pix fanboy. There are lots of things that I gripe about and recently complained passionately to Pix about a bunch of things as well.
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Post by dadnatron on Jan 19, 2017 5:33:32 GMT -5
I run 4 lvl 3 Cossacks with lvl 4 Punishers. Now I'm running them against Galahad and Furies just because I'm lvl 30? This makes no sense. Forcing uselessness into bots makes no sense. Building in a "noob tier" makes a lot of sense, but after that, battles should be based on bot lvl not player lvl. There is no way to try something new if you are always playing against lvl 8/10 Plasma Griffons or someone who ranges 3 trees from across the map. I'll play all day long against lvl 30 players, running the same lvl bots against me, but there is no way that my lvl 3 Cossacks should be up against lvl 6-8 plasma Galahads. I like Ike this game, and have a in progress silver tier team. But the most enjoyment I get has been lower lvl play with E Q U A L lvl bots. I hate Gep's with plasma, and think THEY were the biggest impediment to the game at low lvls. But... the game just became a lot less enjoyable... I'm glad I haven't spent real money, because if I had, I'd be furious when I quit. The problem is that equal level bots doesnt make you an equal level PLAYER. Nor does equal level bots mean equal level WEAPONS. Under the old tier system, a level 3 Cossack could remain in Low Silver with a level 12 (MAXED) Taran or Orkan. And THAT knowledge only came if you had played the game long enough to exploit the MM. That Cossack (or worse, a 4/12 Mag Gep) was able to the crush all your so-called "equal bots". So unless you say that your weapons were also equal level, then it was never really equal. The game was also designed for the higher level players to play with higher level players. You experience as a level 30 gives you an unfair advantage regardless of bot levels against new players. That being said, the new MM doesn't take your player into account that much. Your win-rate from playing with lower players must be very high, thus throwing you into games against "better" players. As I said in the first sentence... I'm running lvl 3 Cossacks with lvl 4 punishers. Yes, my skill with them is good, and I've built a good win percentage of around 76-% or so. But, this loadout is useless... and I mean COMPLETELY USELESS, in the tiers I have been stuck in. And at one time, I put a lvl 5 Taran on 1 single Cossack, leaving everything else unchanged and it pushed me completely into heavy bot territory, so I call knowledgeable Bull?poo-poo?, on your 4/12 bot weapon clubbing statement. That might have been the case more than 2 months ago, which was about when I started, but since that time, the only clubbers I ever saw were plasma Geps. Otherwise, it was simply skill with the bots. Now, skill with a certain set of bots translates into uselessness, when they are placed against high lvl heavies. As the game stands at this moment, the game MM must ignore everything, in favor of player lvl and win%. There is nothing else that could explain how low lvl bots and weapons are being put into high lvl matches. The real issue, as I saw it, was a single broken Bot. The Gephards were and remain, the main problem. I had a hanger of low lvl Cossacks which I played for fun and was building a hanger of bots for higher play. I could switch hangers and play different types of matches. Now, regardless of the hanger, I face the same high lvl bots. Effectively requiring a certain load out and LEVEL OF LOADOUT to be effective in any situation. This change will force everyone into a very narrow loadout... or people will languish in "50/50" equality without real hope to improve any skill. Because as soon as you improve, you will be punished for it. Sounds a lot like our tax system...
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Jan 19, 2017 5:37:31 GMT -5
I agree with Super-Hero. Cept I suck at the game and am getting absolutely smashed (especially when there is the occasional guy with a 12/12 hanger comes along), but, hey, ?poo-poo? happens. And the game is still pretty fun ?
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Post by Spoopy Scary Haunter on Jan 19, 2017 5:41:10 GMT -5
The problem is that equal level bots doesnt make you an equal level PLAYER. Nor does equal level bots mean equal level WEAPONS. Under the old tier system, a level 3 Cossack could remain in Low Silver with a level 12 (MAXED) Taran or Orkan. And THAT knowledge only came if you had played the game long enough to exploit the MM. That Cossack (or worse, a 4/12 Mag Gep) was able to the crush all your so-called "equal bots". So unless you say that your weapons were also equal level, then it was never really equal. The game was also designed for the higher level players to play with higher level players. You experience as a level 30 gives you an unfair advantage regardless of bot levels against new players. That being said, the new MM doesn't take your player into account that much. Your win-rate from playing with lower players must be very high, thus throwing you into games against "better" players. As I said in the first sentence... I'm running lvl 3 Cossacks with lvl 4 punishers. Yes, my skill with them is good, and I've built a good win percentage of around 76-% or so. But, this loadout is useless... and I mean COMPLETELY USELESS, in the tiers I have been stuck in. And at one time, I put a lvl 5 Tarzan on 1 single Cossack, leaving everything else unchanged and it pushed me completely into heavy bot territory, so I call knowledgeable Bull?poo-poo?, on you 4/12 bot weapon statement. That might have been the case more than 2 months ago, which was about when I started, but since that time, the only clubbers I ever saw were plasma Geps. Otherwise, it was simply skill with the bots. Now, skill with a certain set of bots translates into uselessness, when they are placed against high lvl heavies. As the game stands at this moment, the game MM must ignore everything, in favor of player lvl and win%. There is nothing else that could explain how low lvl bots and weapons are being put into high lvl matches. Maybe if you stopped 「female dog」ing and kept playing for a bit, the MM might have some time to balance out. Anyway, the game is about having fun, and nothing is more fun than jumping around in a little cozzie. Anyway, if only been playing 3-4 weeks, and I'm already close-ish to a trash gold hangar. You've been playing two months. Enough said.
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Post by SuperHero on Jan 19, 2017 5:43:14 GMT -5
Actually, if you are level 30, are you telling me that in the whole time you have played the game until now, you have never even started a higher level hangar? Surely those are not the only bots you have? Why are you insistent on using them? And if you want to keep using them, then upgrade them then. and Yes, the MM seems to be ignoring hangars, or at least giving them WAY less weight. And you can blame seal clubbers for that. And it has been tested by multiple players. Lights bots at level 1-4 get away with weapons 10-12 and still remain in silver (you get heavy bots in silver). So call out whatever you want. That has been the research done by the wiki and the forum, not me. On that note, 3/4 which you said you were using is Bronze, not silver. SO for a level 30 to remain in bronze this whole time, you are exactly the kind of player that Pix is trying to weed out. Again, no offense, just calling it as I see it. High winning percentages while playing against level 15s is exactly why many noobs leave the game while allowing you to earn easy gold. And that's what Pix is trying to correct.
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Post by dadnatron on Jan 19, 2017 5:58:19 GMT -5
Fair enough... perhaps I am who they are trying to be rid.
I do have higher lvl bots. I play them at higher lvls. I never could get a grasp on tiers. But I suspect I was playing those in high silver/low gold tiers. Now, I'm playing those against 12/12 loadouts.
Perhaps my skill at Cossacks was the reason Pix changed.
And concerning the taran on a single Cossack, your vaunted research is incorrect. Perhaps it was correct at one time... but as of just a week ago, it was definitely incorrect.
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Post by dadnatron on Jan 19, 2017 6:16:27 GMT -5
Maybe if you stopped ?female dog?ing and kept playing for a bit, the MM might have some time to balance out. Anyway, the game is about having fun, and nothing is more fun than jumping around in a little cozzie. Anyway, if only been playing 3-4 weeks, and I'm already close-ish to a trash gold hangar. You've been playing two months. Enough said. Do you really think that because I didn't state I had other bots... that I had none? Your trash gold hanger can go up against my trash gold hanger if you'd like. If if this game is a required linear progression, in which lvl trumps skill and any success requires use of only 1 or 2 bots with a specific loadout, then the illusion of options is just that... an illusion. A good game will balance all levels across all bots and equipment. At this point, if you aren't running plasma or Orkins on a Galahad/Griffon or 3 lvl12 kwks on a Fury, you really won't be competitive for long. A player can be the very most skilled, but without equal gear he is matched against, his skill is meaningless. Geps were the problem. Geps will remain the problem. Geps with aephids... Geps with mags. They are nerfing aephids, but it wasn't the aephids which were the problem, it was the platform from which they could be fired in such quantity and with such speed, that was and will remain, the problem.
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 19, 2017 6:39:43 GMT -5
Is the new MM still iOS only? We on the Android side have an update for the Lunar year event it seems:
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Post by ivx on Jan 19, 2017 7:10:16 GMT -5
Heh, would be awesome if they released the new Moon map for the Lunar New Year event...
Hint Pixonic, hint
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Post by springeb on Jan 19, 2017 7:11:13 GMT -5
With this new MM system, please bear in mind THERE ARE NO MORE TIERS! So whining that your 5x L4/12 TMGep hanger doesn't deserve to be put in some other tier is a moot point, because nobody is being put into a tier. You are being match to pilots with similar PERFORMANCE ratings, with some minor influence by whatever is left of the Hanger Score system, so what you have in your hanger doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to. I am concerned an adjustment to Matching will remove the option to play different stages of the game. For example, I used to play heavy bots level 6-9 with weapons levels 9-10 when playing with my experienced clan mates. The I could switch to plat medium bots level 4 with weapons level 7-9 when playing with my coworker that recently started playing and hasn't built his hangar bots and weapons enough to play with my stronger hangar. The I could switch to run light bots level 4 weapons level 6 to play with my brother that just started and hasn't built up to medium bots yet. All of these "stages of play" have different game play style and added variety beyond the limited "six maps". Canyon feels like three different maps depending on whether it is all light bots, mostly medium bots or all a advanced medium, heavy, and premium bots. I like Ike the idea that players can be better matched with other skilled plAyers, but I will be sad if I lose the ability to swap out my strong hangar (previously low gold) for smaller bots to play with my friends that are far behind in building their own hangars. The possibility of playing a visually impressive real time 6v6 capture the flag style game with my friends is what drew me to this game. If I can only play with randoms or the few clan mates that have hangars/Elo ratings similar to me (in one strong hangar) then I feel the game lost variety for me. The six maps feel even more limited when hangar adjustment tier play is no longer an option.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 7:21:55 GMT -5
Good luck getting newbies to get the 5th hangar. With the MM changes, getting gold is near impossible, bye bye my dreams of a 5th slot. lvl 28, non spender, with my most upgraded bots, I can barely get into a gold bracket. lvl 30 players with super bots that I've never encountered before, spider thing with 3 high level tarans tears through most of the players I've been fighting along side. Galahad, i think, with a shield of never take damage, is a nightmare to take out if other players haven't noticed it.
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Post by springeb on Jan 19, 2017 7:22:47 GMT -5
Maybe if you stopped ?female dog?ing and kept playing for a bit, the MM might have some time to balance out. Anyway, the game is about having fun, and nothing is more fun than jumping around in a little cozzie. Anyway, if only been playing 3-4 weeks, and I'm already close-ish to a trash gold hangar. You've been playing two months. Enough said. Do you really think that because I didn't state I had other bots... that I had none? Your trash gold hanger can go up against my trash gold hanger if you'd like. If if this game is a required linear progression, in which lvl trumps skill and any success requires use of only 1 or 2 bots with a specific loadout, then the illusion of options is just that... an illusion. A good game will balance all levels across all bots and equipment. At this point, if you aren't running plasma or Orkins on a Galahad/Griffon or 3 lvl12 kwks on a Fury, you really won't be competitive for long. A player can be the very most skilled, but without equal gear he is matched against, his skill is meaningless. Geps were the problem. Geps will remain the problem. Geps with aephids... Geps with mags. They are nerfing aephids, but it wasn't the aephids which were the problem, it was the platform from which they could be fired in such quantity and with such speed, that was and will remain, the problem. I mentioned this in another post. I agree that Gepard seems to be the source of much frustration and I believe if they were treated like medium bots (i.e. Maxed at 4/9 in silver tier) they would still be strong enough to encourage use and purchase, but wouldn't be so strong as to dominate meta at many stages of play. I think this this thread is meant for MM and I believe these Gepard balance issues is only loosely related. Matchmaker changes could reduce the variety of the game available to all players and funnel more players into the "top tier" meta.
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Post by 《₩hirl》 on Jan 19, 2017 8:44:15 GMT -5
In the midst of all this chaos, y'know what's funny about it?
All people wanted was those maggep clubbers out of Bronze. Simple. Either by nerf for the sake of play or by penalty for the sake of newbies.
So we are given a new MM that is completely bonkers and everyone the northside of High Bronze is being clubbed by everyone else.
The Gepard remains untouched...
Jokes aside, sorry to hear things on ios are in turmoil now. Hope things do balance out and it's not doomed. When it hits android I'll also share my experiences.
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Post by kchan4487 on Jan 19, 2017 8:57:02 GMT -5
Good luck getting newbies to get the 5th hangar. With the MM changes, getting gold is near impossible, bye bye my dreams of a 5th slot. lvl 28, non spender, with my most upgraded bots, I can barely get into a gold bracket. lvl 30 players with super bots that I've never encountered before, spider thing with 3 high level tarans tears through most of the players I've been fighting along side. Galahad, i think, with a shield of never take damage, is a nightmare to take out if other players haven't noticed it. What are you talking about? I played to my apparent tier, never once clubbed or deliberately farmed for gold. I got an Orkan and 5th slot in like a month. And that's after the first 1-2 weeks or so where I spent gold on making upgrades faster. I run a hangar with nothing but AU bots and some WSP weapons and I can get decent gold everyday.
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Post by zman on Jan 19, 2017 8:58:30 GMT -5
Ok, everyone take a breath. For every person who is, likely temporarily, getting clubbed by the new MM, there is someone clubbing them with the new MM. the average winrate is only 50%, so someone will lose and someone will win.
Does that mean the MM will make it so everyone has a 50% winrate, of course not, so far I've been able to maintain my 70% winrate. But, we won't know the full extent of the MM until it gets a chance to settle down, this takes time. Right now it is turbulent and needs to gauge each player. It has already started to settle down for me with only a couple of player being out of place. Basically we need alll active players to get on and play a couple of games a day for at least a couple of days before the game starts to settle down.
Hanger strength does still matter, and it is possible to maintain win rates north of 60%. Clubbers are obsolete, and tiers no longer exist.
We're getting lots of anecdotal evidence about how bad it is, well there are still lots of outliers being placed yet and this process takes time and will be turbulent.
It isn't a matter of just you playing games, it's a matter of the entire community playing more games to be properly placed. Your Elo is relative right now and it's a wavepool out there. Let's give it a week guys.
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Post by [AurN] perfectlyGoodInk on Jan 19, 2017 9:23:47 GMT -5
APOLOGIES: PIX has just informed us that the new MM is NOT, I repeat, NOT on Android right now. This is a iOS only thing. Yeah, I was going to report that I was finally able to get a bunch of matches in myself. Last night, running 6/8 heavies, it was exactly the same. This morning, a couple of us were able to drop into Low Silver, maybe even with a tinge of Bronze in it. I was running 4/8 mediums, and my clan-mate running 6/5 heavies, I think.
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Post by SlowReflexes on Jan 19, 2017 9:41:00 GMT -5
Take a step back for a moment. Why do people *try*? Why does someone put in effort at something? To get better, of course. What is the point of being better? To be better. Which is relative. Which means you work in order to be *better than* what, or more to the point, who, you are measuring yourself against. John Maxwell is perhaps the leading expert on leadership in the entire world today, and he has a quote that seems relevant here: "When people expect to win, they will do anything to win. When they expect to lose they will do anything to escape before the end." See, the problem with your argument is that people set limits for themselves. You'll find lots of folks who are happy in this forum with a 70% win ratio (or who would be happy if at was their win%). To be fair, that's a respectable level. They'll fight hard to get to that 70% in a specific tier, but then become resistant to suggestions for improvement. "My frankengolem works great and I kill lots of bots, just look at my 70% win rate! Your suggestion to focus on a more standard bot is useless to me." I showed how I achieved a win% of 96% with Boas and have people with 70% win rates (almost 30% less!) arguing with me that Tarans would be better than Orkans for my strategy, even after I explained why Tarans can't actually fulfill the proper role in that situation. ...and that's ok, because people are allowed to do what they want. It's relevant to note, though, that "improvement" isn't exactly what they want. See, improvement requires very painful change, and people are averse to pain. They want to succeed, but only in the least painful way. So they try silly bots and they do silly things with beacons. They chase after Stalkers and they miss basic team strategies. It's ok! ...but they're not seeking improvement. See, pain is a loss on their eyes, and they'll avoid losing if possible. And since improving requires choosing to suffer for a while, well.... If improvement was the goal they would play every map, every time. If improvement was the goal they wouldn't use Geps. If improvement was the goal they would be more excited about an Elo score that shows their actual skill level. If improvement was the goal they would always search the wiki and find info on the MM before asking. If improvement was the goal there wouldn't be half as many threads in this forum because they would find their own information instead of asking the same thing that 35 other people already asked. ...but they don't, because those things are uncomfortable, and they'll do anything to avoid discomfort, including not improving, or not improving as fast. ...and that's totally ok. You're basically full of malarky, because you're too abstract. In your piece, change 'improvement' to 'effectiveness' and you might begin to understand. People don't want improvement for its own sake. They want to improve, to the extent they improve, to *do better than the other guy*. Suddenly everything makes sense! Now you know why people use Gepards, with complete rationality. Now an Elo system, or any ranking system wins when only your rank matters. Winning and losing any individual match doesn't matter because, say, winning doesn't give you more powerful chess pieces. The only takeaway is your rank and that's what you brag about, that's how you differentiate yourself. Getting a higher rank is all the incentive you need. Our game isn't like that. Our 'pieces' vary widely in strength, are expensive to acquire and even more expensive to upgrade. Winning individual matches gives you material rewards that are turned into stronger pieces. Which is the problem. Playing up the rank system, earning a higher rank that you can brag about is the reward that counters the frustrating aspect of the enforced 'fairness' I wrote about earlier. But by itself that's incomplete. They're going to have to completely rework the in-game currency payout system to fix the incentives that switching to Elo break.
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Post by soulcoffr on Jan 19, 2017 9:48:58 GMT -5
Good luck getting newbies to get the 5th hangar. With the MM changes, getting gold is near impossible, bye bye my dreams of a 5th slot. lvl 28, non spender, with my most upgraded bots, I can barely get into a gold bracket. lvl 30 players with super bots that I've never encountered before, spider thing with 3 high level tarans tears through most of the players I've been fighting along side. Galahad, i think, with a shield of never take damage, is a nightmare to take out if other players haven't noticed it. What are you talking about? I played to my apparent tier, never once clubbed or deliberately farmed for gold. I got an Orkan and 5th slot in like a month. And that's after the first 1-2 weeks or so where I spent gold on making upgrades faster. I run a hangar with nothing but AU bots and some WSP weapons and I can get decent gold everyday. Same here. I started playing at Christmas and I'm well on my way to getting my 5th slot, even after frittering away a ton of gold on upgrades before I knew better.
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Post by SuperHero on Jan 19, 2017 9:52:29 GMT -5
Fair enough... perhaps I am who they are trying to be rid. I do have higher lvl bots. I play them at higher lvls. I never could get a grasp on tiers. But I suspect I was playing those in high silver/low gold tiers. Now, I'm playing those against 12/12 loadouts. Perhaps my skill at Cossacks was the reason Pix changed. And concerning the taran on a single Cossack, your vaunted research is incorrect. Perhaps it was correct at one time... but as of just a week ago, it was definitely incorrect. I just realized the difference. As you stated, you were playing 3/4 Cossacks. That would be Bronze. I was stating 4/12 would be low silver. My apologies for the miscomm. In any case, posting your higher tier hangar would be helpful so that we might be able to make suggestions on how to be more effective? And to be fair it isnt just your skill with the cossack. It's just overall the camping of high level players in the lowest tiers which are meant to be kept for the newbies is what has had people leaving the game before they even begin. So please blame them for spoiling the fun.
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 19, 2017 9:54:42 GMT -5
...but they don't, because those things are uncomfortable, and they'll do anything to avoid discomfort, including not improving, or not improving as fast. ...and that's totally ok. You're basically full of malarky, because you're too abstract. In your piece, change 'improvement' to 'effectiveness' and you might begin to understand. People don't want improvement for its own sake. They want to improve, to the extent they improve, to *do better than the other guy*. Suddenly everything makes sense! Now you know why people use Gepards, with complete rationality. So you insult me and then agree with me? #Classy #DidntReadCarefully Doing better than the other guy removes pain, and they'll always seek that outcome with as limited a quantity of procedural pain as possible. If that means buying an OP Gep because it's an instant boost with no need to gain more skill, then that's what they'll do. Like I said, improvement wasn't what they wanted. Glad you agree.
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Post by Loop_Stratos on Jan 19, 2017 9:55:29 GMT -5
I wonder why they don't update both servers at the same time? It's bugging me.
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Post by Muhlakai on Jan 19, 2017 9:55:53 GMT -5
I wonder why they don't update both servers at the same time? It's bugging me. Guinea pigs. Better to launch one and fix one than launch both and fix two simultaneously.
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Post by ivx on Jan 19, 2017 9:57:52 GMT -5
They probably have a few other tweaks planned too. So the rollout of it all will happen in waves on both servers. But yes, so far we're guinea pigs for data/feedback collection, LOL.
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Post by lilryry on Jan 19, 2017 10:00:16 GMT -5
Don't know what to think, I have all 2/5 bots with one 2/8 as Ive only played for a couple weeks and was wanting to ease into the game slowly, now I have 3-4 competitive matches that we pulled out towards the end which was great but then my next 3-4 matches I'm going against 6/8 bots and getting juiced...I don't mind losing but I can't even run out from cover and I'm dead in 2 seconds. I get they were trying to fix clubbing but all that happened is it was transferred to people like myself, which you know, is pretty sweet because I enjoy being 2 shotted
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Post by SlowReflexes on Jan 19, 2017 10:00:49 GMT -5
You're basically full of malarky, because you're too abstract. In your piece, change 'improvement' to 'effectiveness' and you might begin to understand. People don't want improvement for its own sake. They want to improve, to the extent they improve, to *do better than the other guy*. Suddenly everything makes sense! Now you know why people use Gepards, with complete rationality. So you insult me and then agree with me? #Classy #DidntReadCarefully Doing better than the other guy removes pain, and they'll always seek that outcome with as limited a quantity of procedural pain as possible. If that means buying an OP Gep because it's an instant boost with no need to gain more skill, then that's what they'll do. Like I said, improvement wasn't what they wanted. Glad you agree. You seem unclear on the difference between means and ends.
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