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Post by kukurukukuk on Sept 25, 2017 7:47:33 GMT -5
See? The people have spoken. I totally did not put words in their mouth. Give us more already! |
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abetterpilot
Destrier
Posts: 19
Karma: 2
Platform: iOS
Clan: F4L The Fallen
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Post by abetterpilot on Sept 25, 2017 8:13:16 GMT -5
as far as EVERYTHING being in the bronze chest? i must call bull「dookie」!  |
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Post by Anon O. Mous on Sept 25, 2017 8:56:20 GMT -5
See? The people have spoken. I totally did not put words in their mouth. Give us more already! Oh, no you didn't. |
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Post by fatdogmagic on Sept 25, 2017 9:51:14 GMT -5
Word we have from Pixonic is that 3.2 will hopefully be released on Android on 25 Sept and will include a "new mechanic" for attaining Dash bots. Of course this inside info is subject to changes and the fluidity of circumstances (like the fact that even Pix was shocked when 3.1 was approved so fast by Apple). This "new mechanic" was mentioned after we fed back to them the immense dissatisfaction that had arisen as a result of the Black Market. More to follow..... Any word on whether we're going to get the update today? Thanks again! |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 25, 2017 12:21:14 GMT -5
There is a divide in thinking in this thread... those who believe we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, and those who don't. The moral debate on whether or not any company should tempt us to buy their product can go on for years. Much in normal advertising is EVIL. Either way, whether with Ignorance as our partner, Experience, Greed, Lust, or Envy, we still make our own decisions. Either we learn better after getting burned, are taught better by out parents/guardians and don't even get burned, or we keep falling into the hole and blaming the digger... instead of just walking over it. I know it sounds harsh, but... it is. So is life. When life interrupts entertainment (like businesses surviving off of you being entertained), well, sometimes it can be ugly. Saying it is Pix's fault, though, in any way, I don't agree with. We can turn our games off. We can limit our own and our kids' access to IAPs, etc. I mean... really, there are options here. Just my opinion though. Eh, that's a bit of a simplification. Few things are ever that black and white, and this is no exception. I definitely agree that it's on us whether we give in to crap like this or not. We have to own our choices, good or bad. If we know something is scam-ish and still fall for it, well, we're the ones who did the foolish thing. I'm one of the people who spent more than I should have or intended to on the Black Market, and the blame for that falls squarely on me. Yup, I have certain weaknesses that the BM specifically targeted, but I am still the one who chose to spin..and spin...and spin. That's why I'm not crying to Pix about getting my money back. Like I said in another post, they are the scorpion, just doing what the scorpion does. I'm the frog who knew what the scorpion does and still agreed to carry it across the river. When Pix stings me, it's not like I can act surprised or indignant. But where I disagree with you is the idea that game developers are off the hook just because players let them take advantage. Like I said, nothing is that simple. Two things can be true at the same time, and in this case, the two true things are 1) It's the responsibility of the players to not be fleeced, and 2) The gaming companies should not be trying to fleece players in the first place. Just because it's in the scorpion's nature to sting, that doesn't absolve him of responsibility when he does. It's in my nature to gamble (and do other reckless things) but it is still my responsibility to control that nature. And it's his responsibility to control his urge to sting. That's why cops arrest con artists. Sure, the victims are usually dumbfiretrucks who should have known better. But that doesn't mean the con artists didn't do anything wrong. While we're all talking about Pix here, I want to reiterate: This is a problem all across the mobile gaming industry. Pix is actually better about it than most and, as I said in an earlier post, seems to be trying to work with players. I think we're all just disappointed to see the company making moves in the wrong direction. The industry is only going to change if players make them. So when things like the Black Market happen in our favorite games, it's important that we let the developers know they firetrucked up. I'd like to clear up something... One thing I never mentioned was letting Pix off of the hook. I didn't mean to imply it, either. This post is sorta ambling from here on out, and I am shifting from replying to your post to addressing the whole thread idea and my take on it, at the same time... bear with me if you will... or just leave the spoiler unexpanded if you don't want to read... either way is fine  I guess when I see some of the calls for regulation and such, it bewilders me since this is quite normal in this industry... predatory or not... just like you said. I just didn't see Pix as near as bad as other games I have played, and didn't see clogging up the forums with still more of the same thing... and especially the apocalyptic foreboding in posts involving changes that haven't even been fleshed out all the way in as far as the details of those changes. This thread was supposed to be about the update, and we ended up in calls for regulation and them being called scam artists. Which is fine... I guess... It is what its. The side tangent of the evil of the BM isn't really even my main concern, so maybe that is why I seem to be simplifying it... but, nevertheless, I do still feel it comes down more on the side of the consumer to do their due diligence to know what they are getting into when they purchase something... But I am like that in every aspect of my life, not just gaming. I have been burned in the past with bad/uninformed/naïve purchases and have learned not to touch the stove when it is hot... just like most of us have in many areas of life. I see this as no different. *shrug*
As far as the OP and the point of the thread... Do I feel optimistic? Not totally, tbh. Custom games are high on my 'can't-wait-for-this' list... but otherwise, not really bright or dim in the ole outlookin'... However... I deffo ain't doomsday preppin' for the TEOTGAWKI (The End of the Game as We Know It) either. Not by a long shot... as there is always a time period of settling in for these bot additions/introductions and league changes, etc. I Imagine it will take at least a few weeks to a month for this to happen once they are implemented. It could be argued that Pix was hoping to use this time of "limited availability" to assess the K-Bots' performance and check for Nerf requirements before general release. I would argue that, IF, there had been some truly random mechanism that paying had ZERO to do with, to determine who got the bots.
BTW... I am not saying you are a doomsayer, tonyfla , just regarding some of the posts in the past few weeks. And I am not ridiculing or belittling those posts and the feelings behind them... I do get it... but I see no reason that there can't be a spotlight shown on the parts of the game that are either not as bad or are much better than they are painted as being, while wishing for the consolidation of the repeating grumble threads to clean it up some... And pointing out that there are things one can do to not spend on the chests that are simple.
I already have said that I hate the BM as a Bot release mechanism, even though I don't mind it as a way to get a bit more gear for free (not so much now, as the payouts for the BM are MUCH worse than the first several events, where you could start with a decent amount of event currency and stay rolling and getting multiple superchests with an initial, decent, investment. Now, very reduced amounts of tickets are what you can expect in most chests, with superchests more likely to give you a Gekko or an Aphid than anything you would actually like to have... if you get there. Which is much harder to do without spending, than the first ones were, as well)
Either way, I don't have a lot of knowledge of what it takes to regulate something that is based on IAPs that have only digital goods to be won or bought. I can't say what is needed or not in that regard. I do know that Pix is releasing SOME sort of alternate method to get the Dashes... so there will be a shift away from the chests for a bit. That development is supposedly directly because of the negative feedback that has resulted from the BM release of the K-Bots. Will they allow for more common wins and less crappy payouts? Who knows... I don't expect much because there isn't much to go on to feed those expectations. Again, bringing me back to the one complaint I have had for a while with Pix... lack of enough communication. They have improved... their blog is pretty detailed... but still lacks a lot basic stuff... Like details of LQ (not exact requirements) and what it takes to win Ag in a match and how come repair costs fluctuate in such a way that a match where you didn't lose one bot, has higher repair costs than one that you went all out on and meched in the first 5 mins... etc. (LQ is still a BIG sore point in my mind... not enough knowledge or warning about it in game. Noobs should never end up there! And the way they changed what can get you in there, after telling us that skipping maps was ok... well... yeah. And, not to mention, how little it has affected the tankers that run maxed hangars and drop to Bronze, Silver, and Gold. They are still going strong.)
What I can say is that I can still get on the game and play it and enjoy it. That is what I base my feelings on. Current vs Future enjoyment is definitely debatable... but I can only debate with the knowledge and experience gained since all of the changes that have been happening, have happened. Not guesses as far as what might happen, then acting as if the conclusion is foregone. So far... there have been disasters and improvements... some prophesied and some not... that have resulted from said changes. Sometimes the things we hate the idea of, end up being better than we feared... which is the general sentiment of my posts that are in this and other threads. I am NOT trying to push people's buttons or needlessly argue... but I do think there is more to it than me being an "apologist" just because I don't get on board with the crucify Pix posts. I wish I was... then maybe I could get a K-Bot or two...  Soon, we will at least have version 3.2, to lay answers on some of these questions... maybe I will be back to change my tune, then... but for now I just say wait and see, and try to keep from giving my opinion on things that I hold different viewpoints on than the consensus. IMO, YMMV. |
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leee
Destrier
Posts: 89
Karma: 55
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Post by leee on Sept 25, 2017 12:37:18 GMT -5
Sooooooo where is my 3.2 update?
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inspirace
Trusted Contributor 
Posts: 2,670
Karma: 2,959
Pilot name: inspirace
Platform: iOS
Clan: NEW
League: Champion
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Rog, Griff, Carn, Doc, Rhino, Haechi, Kumiho, Bulgasari, Mender, Inquisitor, Spectre, Strider,
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Post by inspirace on Sept 25, 2017 12:53:57 GMT -5
ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 your spoiler is written in black ink on a black paper, a black cat in a dark room, a raven in a starless night, and for some reason one star shines brightly in it: tonyfla   what’s going on here?
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 25, 2017 13:02:26 GMT -5
ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 your spoiler is written in black ink on a black paper, a black cat in a dark room, a raven in a starless night, and for some reason one star shines brightly in it: tonyfla what’s going on here? Crap... will fix it! Cheers! |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 25, 2017 13:03:56 GMT -5
Done
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Post by tonyfla on Sept 25, 2017 13:25:08 GMT -5
Eh, that's a bit of a simplification. Few things are ever that black and white, and this is no exception. I definitely agree that it's on us whether we give in to crap like this or not. We have to own our choices, good or bad. If we know something is scam-ish and still fall for it, well, we're the ones who did the foolish thing. I'm one of the people who spent more than I should have or intended to on the Black Market, and the blame for that falls squarely on me. Yup, I have certain weaknesses that the BM specifically targeted, but I am still the one who chose to spin..and spin...and spin. That's why I'm not crying to Pix about getting my money back. Like I said in another post, they are the scorpion, just doing what the scorpion does. I'm the frog who knew what the scorpion does and still agreed to carry it across the river. When Pix stings me, it's not like I can act surprised or indignant. But where I disagree with you is the idea that game developers are off the hook just because players let them take advantage. Like I said, nothing is that simple. Two things can be true at the same time, and in this case, the two true things are 1) It's the responsibility of the players to not be fleeced, and 2) The gaming companies should not be trying to fleece players in the first place. Just because it's in the scorpion's nature to sting, that doesn't absolve him of responsibility when he does. It's in my nature to gamble (and do other reckless things) but it is still my responsibility to control that nature. And it's his responsibility to control his urge to sting. That's why cops arrest con artists. Sure, the victims are usually dumbfiretrucks who should have known better. But that doesn't mean the con artists didn't do anything wrong. While we're all talking about Pix here, I want to reiterate: This is a problem all across the mobile gaming industry. Pix is actually better about it than most and, as I said in an earlier post, seems to be trying to work with players. I think we're all just disappointed to see the company making moves in the wrong direction. The industry is only going to change if players make them. So when things like the Black Market happen in our favorite games, it's important that we let the developers know they firetrucked up. I'd like to clear up something... One thing I never mentioned was letting Pix off of the hook. I didn't mean to imply it, either. This post is sorta ambling from here on out, and I am shifting from replying to your post to addressing the whole thread idea and my take on it, at the same time... bear with me if you will... or just leave the spoiler unexpanded if you don't want to read... either way is fine I guess when I see some of the calls for regulation and such, it bewilders me since this is quite normal in this industry... predatory or not... just like you said. I just didn't see Pix as near as bad as other games I have played, and didn't see clogging up the forums with still more of the same thing... and especially the apocalyptic foreboding in posts involving changes that haven't even been fleshed out all the way in as far as the details of those changes. This thread was supposed to be about the update, and we ended up in calls for regulation and them being called scam artists. Which is fine... I guess... It is what its. The side tangent of the evil of the BM isn't really even my main concern, so maybe that is why I seem to be simplifying it... but, nevertheless, I do still feel it comes down more on the side of the consumer to do their due diligence to know what they are getting into when they purchase something... But I am like that in every aspect of my life, not just gaming. I have been burned in the past with bad/uninformed/naïve purchases and have learned not to touch the stove when it is hot... just like most of us have in many areas of life. I see this as no different. *shrug* As far as the OP and the point of the thread... Do I feel optimistic? Not totally, tbh. Custom games are high on my 'can't-wait-for-this' list... but otherwise, not really bright or dim in the ole outlookin'... However... I deffo ain't doomsday preppin' for the TEOTGAWKI (The End of the Game as We Know It) either. Not by a long shot... as there is always a time period of settling in for these bot additions/introductions and league changes, etc. I Imagine it will take at least a few weeks to a month for this to happen once they are implemented. It could be argued that Pix was hoping to use this time of "limited availability" to assess the K-Bots' performance and check for Nerf requirements before general release. I would argue that, IF, there had been some truly random mechanism that paying had ZERO to do with, to determine who got the bots. BTW... I am not saying you are a doomsayer, tonyfla , just regarding some of the posts in the past few weeks. And I am not ridiculing or belittling those posts and the feelings behind them... I do get it... but I see no reason that there can't be a spotlight shown on the parts of the game that are either not as bad or are much better than they are painted as being, while wishing for the consolidation of the repeating grumble threads to clean it up some... And pointing out that there are things one can do to not spend on the chests that are simple. I already have said that I hate the BM as a Bot release mechanism, even though I don't mind it as a way to get a bit more gear for free (not so much now, as the payouts for the BM are MUCH worse than the first several events, where you could start with a decent amount of event currency and stay rolling and getting multiple superchests with an initial, decent, investment. Now, very reduced amounts of tickets are what you can expect in most chests, with superchests more likely to give you a Gekko or an Aphid than anything you would actually like to have... if you get there. Which is much harder to do without spending, than the first ones were, as well) Either way, I don't have a lot of knowledge of what it takes to regulate something that is based on IAPs that have only digital goods to be won or bought. I can't say what is needed or not in that regard. I do know that Pix is releasing SOME sort of alternate method to get the Dashes... so there will be a shift away from the chests for a bit. That development is supposedly directly because of the negative feedback that has resulted from the BM release of the K-Bots. Will they allow for more common wins and less crappy payouts? Who knows... I don't expect much because there isn't much to go on to feed those expectations. Again, bringing me back to the one complaint I have had for a while with Pix... lack of enough communication. They have improved... their blog is pretty detailed... but still lacks a lot basic stuff... Like details of LQ (not exact requirements) and what it takes to win Ag in a match and how come repair costs fluctuate in such a way that a match where you didn't lose one bot, has higher repair costs than one that you went all out on and meched in the first 5 mins... etc. (LQ is still a BIG sore point in my mind... not enough knowledge or warning about it in game. Noobs should never end up there! And the way they changed what can get you in there, after telling us that skipping maps was ok... well... yeah. And, not to mention, how little it has affected the tankers that run maxed hangars and drop to Bronze, Silver, and Gold. They are still going strong.) What I can say is that I can still get on the game and play it and enjoy it. That is what I base my feelings on. Current vs Future enjoyment is definitely debatable... but I can only debate with the knowledge and experience gained since all of the changes that have been happening, have happened. Not guesses as far as what might happen, then acting as if the conclusion is foregone. So far... there have been disasters and improvements... some prophesied and some not... that have resulted from said changes. Sometimes the things we hate the idea of, end up being better than we feared... which is the general sentiment of my posts that are in this and other threads. I am NOT trying to push people's buttons or needlessly argue... but I do think there is more to it than me being an "apologist" just because I don't get on board with the crucify Pix posts. I wish I was... then maybe I could get a K-Bot or two... Soon, we will at least have version 3.2, to lay answers on some of these questions... maybe I will be back to change my tune, then... but for now I just say wait and see, and try to keep from giving my opinion on things that I hold different viewpoints on than the consensus. IMO, YMMV. Lol, no worries, dude. I think we're on more or less the same page, except for the regulation thing. I do think the BM was a very bad move, and yes, a big step in a predatory direction. And, as I've said before, I think the players needed to let Pix know we aren't happy with it. However, I'm fairly satisfied - because of the OP and other recent events - that Pix has heard us and is taking steps to mitigate some of the BM's worst aspects. (For example, I think payouts on the chests may have gotten better with the recent reload of the BM). Just got into a bit of a back-and-forth with someone else in yet another one of those 'ohmahgerddashbotsrgonnamaketheskyfall' panic threads. With them, I think I was trying to make basically the same point as you, or at least one very similar. That is: Pix has made some missteps, but definitely seems to be trying to listen and address players' concerns. Let's just see what happens and try to roll with the changes. No need for all the doom-and-gloom which has been dominating the forum. There's so much of it, it's beginning to taint the game for everybody. And I'm with you...taking a more rational, pragmatic approach to these changes - instead of breaking out the pitchforks - definitely is not the same as being an apologist or fanboy for Pix. It's annoying when the hysterical people make that accusation against anyone who suggests they take a breath and calm the firetruck down. I like playing the game, so I'm just going to keep doing that. It is kinda the whole point, after all. Whatever happens, happens. The world will keep turning. Until somebody lets the streams cross. Then, we're all firetrucked. Oh, as for the regulation thing, it's not really Pix that I'm thinking of, but the mobile gaming industry as a whole. The greed has gotten out of control the last five or six years and appears to be getting only worse. And it's the consumers who are paying the price, literally. Somebody has to reign that in because the developers sure as hell aren't going to. They'd happily drain us dry, if they could. That's really a shame, too, because you can only bleed something for so long before it dies. Left to their own devices, they'll either kill the market completely or turn it into an even more unsavory creature than it already is. Regulation is probably the wrong word, though. Like I said before, this is something better left to the platforms through which the games are sold. If they'd simply set some uniform standards, it would clean up a lot of the mess. |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 25, 2017 13:43:54 GMT -5
I'd like to clear up something... One thing I never mentioned was letting Pix off of the hook. I didn't mean to imply it, either. This post is sorta ambling from here on out, and I am shifting from replying to your post to addressing the whole thread idea and my take on it, at the same time... bear with me if you will... or just leave the spoiler unexpanded if you don't want to read... either way is fine I guess when I see some of the calls for regulation and such, it bewilders me since this is quite normal in this industry... predatory or not... just like you said. I just didn't see Pix as near as bad as other games I have played, and didn't see clogging up the forums with still more of the same thing... and especially the apocalyptic foreboding in posts involving changes that haven't even been fleshed out all the way in as far as the details of those changes. This thread was supposed to be about the update, and we ended up in calls for regulation and them being called scam artists. Which is fine... I guess... It is what its. The side tangent of the evil of the BM isn't really even my main concern, so maybe that is why I seem to be simplifying it... but, nevertheless, I do still feel it comes down more on the side of the consumer to do their due diligence to know what they are getting into when they purchase something... But I am like that in every aspect of my life, not just gaming. I have been burned in the past with bad/uninformed/naïve purchases and have learned not to touch the stove when it is hot... just like most of us have in many areas of life. I see this as no different. *shrug* As far as the OP and the point of the thread... Do I feel optimistic? Not totally, tbh. Custom games are high on my 'can't-wait-for-this' list... but otherwise, not really bright or dim in the ole outlookin'... However... I deffo ain't doomsday preppin' for the TEOTGAWKI (The End of the Game as We Know It) either. Not by a long shot... as there is always a time period of settling in for these bot additions/introductions and league changes, etc. I Imagine it will take at least a few weeks to a month for this to happen once they are implemented. It could be argued that Pix was hoping to use this time of "limited availability" to assess the K-Bots' performance and check for Nerf requirements before general release. I would argue that, IF, there had been some truly random mechanism that paying had ZERO to do with, to determine who got the bots. BTW... I am not saying you are a doomsayer, tonyfla , just regarding some of the posts in the past few weeks. And I am not ridiculing or belittling those posts and the feelings behind them... I do get it... but I see no reason that there can't be a spotlight shown on the parts of the game that are either not as bad or are much better than they are painted as being, while wishing for the consolidation of the repeating grumble threads to clean it up some... And pointing out that there are things one can do to not spend on the chests that are simple. I already have said that I hate the BM as a Bot release mechanism, even though I don't mind it as a way to get a bit more gear for free (not so much now, as the payouts for the BM are MUCH worse than the first several events, where you could start with a decent amount of event currency and stay rolling and getting multiple superchests with an initial, decent, investment. Now, very reduced amounts of tickets are what you can expect in most chests, with superchests more likely to give you a Gekko or an Aphid than anything you would actually like to have... if you get there. Which is much harder to do without spending, than the first ones were, as well) Either way, I don't have a lot of knowledge of what it takes to regulate something that is based on IAPs that have only digital goods to be won or bought. I can't say what is needed or not in that regard. I do know that Pix is releasing SOME sort of alternate method to get the Dashes... so there will be a shift away from the chests for a bit. That development is supposedly directly because of the negative feedback that has resulted from the BM release of the K-Bots. Will they allow for more common wins and less crappy payouts? Who knows... I don't expect much because there isn't much to go on to feed those expectations. Again, bringing me back to the one complaint I have had for a while with Pix... lack of enough communication. They have improved... their blog is pretty detailed... but still lacks a lot basic stuff... Like details of LQ (not exact requirements) and what it takes to win Ag in a match and how come repair costs fluctuate in such a way that a match where you didn't lose one bot, has higher repair costs than one that you went all out on and meched in the first 5 mins... etc. (LQ is still a BIG sore point in my mind... not enough knowledge or warning about it in game. Noobs should never end up there! And the way they changed what can get you in there, after telling us that skipping maps was ok... well... yeah. And, not to mention, how little it has affected the tankers that run maxed hangars and drop to Bronze, Silver, and Gold. They are still going strong.) What I can say is that I can still get on the game and play it and enjoy it. That is what I base my feelings on. Current vs Future enjoyment is definitely debatable... but I can only debate with the knowledge and experience gained since all of the changes that have been happening, have happened. Not guesses as far as what might happen, then acting as if the conclusion is foregone. So far... there have been disasters and improvements... some prophesied and some not... that have resulted from said changes. Sometimes the things we hate the idea of, end up being better than we feared... which is the general sentiment of my posts that are in this and other threads. I am NOT trying to push people's buttons or needlessly argue... but I do think there is more to it than me being an "apologist" just because I don't get on board with the crucify Pix posts. I wish I was... then maybe I could get a K-Bot or two... Soon, we will at least have version 3.2, to lay answers on some of these questions... maybe I will be back to change my tune, then... but for now I just say wait and see, and try to keep from giving my opinion on things that I hold different viewpoints on than the consensus. IMO, YMMV. Lol, no worries, dude. I think we're on more or less the same page, except for the regulation thing. I do think the BM was a very bad move, and yes, a big step in a predatory direction. And, as I've said before, I think the players needed to let Pix know we aren't happy with it. However, I'm fairly satisfied - because of the OP and other recent events - that Pix has heard us and is taking steps to mitigate some of the BM's worst aspects. (For example, I think payouts on the chests may have gotten better with the recent reload of the BM). Just got into a bit of a back-and-forth with someone else in yet another one of those 'ohmahgerddashbotsrgonnamaketheskyfall' panic threads. With them, I think I was trying to make basically the same point as you, or at least one very similar. That is: Pix has made some missteps, but definitely seems to be trying to listen and address players' concerns. Let's just see what happens and try to roll with the changes. No need for all the doom-and-gloom which has been dominating the forum. There's so much of it, it's beginning to taint the game for everybody. And I'm with you...taking a more rational, pragmatic approach to these changes - instead of breaking out the pitchforks - definitely is not the same as being an apologist or fanboy for Pix. It's annoying when the hysterical people make that accusation against anyone who suggests they take a breath and calm the firetruck down. I like playing the game, so I'm just going to keep doing that. It is kinda the whole point, after all. Whatever happens, happens. The world will keep turning. Until somebody lets the streams cross. Then, we're all firetrucked. Oh, as for the regulation thing, it's not really Pix that I'm thinking of, but the mobile gaming industry as a whole. The greed has gotten out of control the last five or six years and appears to be getting only worse. And it's the consumers who are paying the price, literally. Somebody has to reign that in because the developers sure as hell aren't going to. They'd happily drain us dry, if they could. That's really a shame, too, because you can only bleed something for so long before it dies. Left to their own devices, they'll either kill the market completely or turn it into an even more unsavory creature than it already is. Regulation is probably the wrong word, though. Like I said before, this is something better left to the platforms through which the games are sold. If they'd simply set some uniform standards, it would clean up a lot of the mess. Hell, agreed on every point, as far as the industry as a whole... yeah. No doubt in my mind something needs to change. Thing is, it has been left alone (for the most part) for so long, that it is becoming the model that many game devs are basing their entire game's creation on... That's why when I see a game that is worth playing that has no paywall, I donate anyway to encourage them. TBH, I hate to say it, but I get the feeling that Apple has a better grip on ensuring the quality of the user experience with regards to their handling of the iTunes App store (or whatever they call it nowadays) than Google does. But yeah, if the stores/app centers/etc were to self regulate, it would take the need for any overreaching regulation of the industry away and allow for just basic protections to be put in place. As it is, now, though, if "they" (the regulators, AKA the GOV) got involved... I shudder to think. And yeah, it does seem like Pix listens to a point. And they do try to implement what they can to fix things while still aiming for their end goal (which things like the UI redesign and League implementation were supposed to be the foundation for and not the end result, themselves. Something that gets either ignored and/or scoffed at, a lot) I am glad that they tweaked the BM like that... it is a step in the right direction. |
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Red:Fox
Destrier
Posts: 42
Karma: 29
Pilot name: RedFoxJI
Platform: Android
Clan: [MWM] Midwest Mercenary
League: Expert
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Doc or Lance
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Post by Red:Fox on Sept 25, 2017 15:45:26 GMT -5
still on school laptop, so getting this: This site can’t be reached The connection was reset. Try: Checking the connection Checking the proxy and the firewall ERR_CONNECTION_RESET. my second point stands anywhere, how many other games have a spend currency you might get one thing or another thing? and how many games advertize the best reward? This is nothing new for games, so why is it unacceptable in war?  Actually, scratch off tickets are a poor example, at least in the US. If you read the back of the ticket there are indeed the odds of winning. I'm curious where you are from where they are not listed. I think this tread is over complicating the issue. The way I see it, the BM is gambling, pure and simple. Would anyone disagree with that? Assuming we're all on the same page, should gambling be regulated? That is the issue. If you don't agree that gambling should be regulated, then of course you will not see the BM as a problem. I personally do think that gambling should be regulated. Ideally, laws are made to protect the greater good and I do believe that putting some restrictions on some things helps everyone. Anyways, just my 2¢ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 16:11:28 GMT -5
When's the update, snitches.
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Post by Russel on Sept 25, 2017 17:32:47 GMT -5
as far as EVERYTHING being in the bronze chest? i must call ?Cow Chips?! Well you might call it as you like...  |
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 25, 2017 17:49:59 GMT -5
1) My take-away from the OP and the translated Russian article posted in another thread is that Pixonic listens to its players and at least tries to meet us halfway-ish...if for no other reason than it just makes good business sense. I agree with everything else you said, but this is plainly not true. It started with the "round table" that Pixo totally ignored, or (more probably) pressed into their vision of things. They had this idea about custom games back then, everything our guys said they answered "oh, so you want custom game, right?"? They didn't even think about what was really said, and never responded to that. With the new matchmaking, I sent them numerous letters. Scores of players complained. Apart from this "thanks for your opinion, we'll forward it to the devs", nothing happend. Of course we know why: Because Pixo believes that the new matchmaking coerces people into spending more money. They can't continue to run their 5/6 robots in low silver. And this is totally a commercial decision. I think it has the potential to destroy the game, because at some point there won't be enough players left. And with all the tanking/clubbing around, many new players will quit in frustration. (I showed the game to two of my friends, and both stopped playing after a few matches because of clubbing.) And, frankly, I've come to a conclusion that I don't like a bit, but I think it's true anyway: All games start to decline at some point, losing players. (Maybe not WoW, but you get my drift.) Maybe Pixo has decided that War Robots has started to decline, and wants to extract as much money as they can from the current players. Everything they did, ever since the new matchmaking and the WW bots, was only whale-friendly. (Hey, $100 bucks for a butch? No problem. New players get clubbed? No problem either, just spend $200 and fast-upgrade everything and you'll out of the clubbing region in no time.) Me, I just quit the game I took up when I made my break from War Robots for exactly the same reason. I will continue to play War Robots as long as I'm having fun, I may or may not buy premium (and consider it as fee for server infrastructure and such), I may buy the occasional offer for €0.89 or €1.89 (appears those offers are gone mostly though, at least the ones that made sense - now all I get is 1 million silver and 60 gold for 2 bucks, yikes), but if those new Mk2 bots are as OP as I think, I'm done and will never again play any "free to play" game, period. Because all good games I played went down that road, that they would become extremely expensive at some point if you wanted to, you know, maybe not be on top, but somewhere among the runner-ups. BTW, I just read the other day that there are voices in the EU that call to regulate this kind of in-game gambling. At least force the people to make public what the odds are, or even allow people to know exactly what they're getting for their money. But regulation is only a small part of the problem - the problem is that game developers realized that enough players are ready to spend insane amounts of money, so they're asking for it. If I know that my chances for a Haechi are 1.5% for any gold chest it's still much too expensive to get one, the result is the same as now - if the Haechi or Inquisitor or whatever becomes omnipresent in my leagues, I have the choice between (A) leaving the game, (B) being cannon fodder and (C) getting a Haechi myself. And my choice will very obviously be door A. It seems any mobile game either requires outlandish prices and nags players (starting with the stupid "this task takes X hours and you can't do anything until you spend nuggets to complete it") right from the start, or games that start out fairly reasonably (like War Robots) will suddenly see a price explosion. And the mechanics are always the same, OP items are introduced and "regular" players are forced to face those OP items all the time, so at one point they buy them too or they get frustrated and leave. |
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 25, 2017 18:09:15 GMT -5
That is: Pix has made some missteps, but definitely seems to be trying to listen and address players' concerns. Let's just see what happens and try to roll with the changes. No need for all the doom-and-gloom which has been dominating the forum. There's so much of it, it's beginning to taint the game for everybody. And I'm with you...taking a more rational, pragmatic approach to these changes - instead of breaking out the pitchforks - definitely is not the same as being an apologist or fanboy for Pix. It's annoying when the hysterical people make that accusation against anyone who suggests they take a breath and calm the firetruck down. I like playing the game, so I'm just going to keep doing that. It is kinda the whole point, after all. Whatever happens, happens. The world will keep turning. Until somebody lets the streams cross. Then, we're all firetrucked. Sorry, but have you somehow missed the last 9 months? Pixo has turned on the heat on the players to open their wallets, starting with the WW bots. (Which of course didn't work too well because those were not good enough.) Of course they understand that their whole model breaks down if it's too obvious and they deplete the player population too much. But they've taken the "now shell out the big money" route and followed it very strictly, never deviating from it. Why else would they have kept the new matchmaking in place, with all the terrible problems it brings? And all the players that opened their wallets and got out and bought Korean bots or whatever, will be faced with the fact that they need to open their wallet again, for the Mk2 insanity. And then probably again for the components. I'm surprised that Pixo hasn't gone the "customize" route again, with purchasable addons that will make the robots stronger. So you could purchase a skin for $5 that makes the hull 10% better, or a skin for $20 that makes the hull 20% better, and so on, but I guess this is only a matter of time too. Anything that would deviate from the "power to the whales" route is of course possible, but it would mightily surprise me. I agree with you to some point: It's no use reading too much into the future. Whatever happens happens, and if I lose my fun in the game I will quit, period. (But I will certainly not open my wallet again.) |
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 25, 2017 18:11:53 GMT -5
Here's the thing, though, and the part that people aren't going to like: The prices never would have gotten so high in the first place if every player was willing to pay a reasonable price for the game. Mobile game developers started this crap in the first place because people somehow got the idea that it was their right to play games free, even though it cost someone else a lot of creativity, money, and hard work to build them. The prices are so high because a small percentage of players are footing the bill for everyone else to play free. BS like the Black Market wouldn't exist if everyone was willing to pitch in. I know saying that pisses people off, but it's true. So we can't lay all the blame for prices on Pix or other mobile devs...a lot of it's on us, too. This is a rather recent development, that so many mobile games get super expensive. I would expect many players to realize at some point that they can easily get a PS4 and a fair number of games for whatever they pay for their mobile games. Games where they know exactly what they will cost. But now, I'd willing to bet that 80% of the players who bought more than just premium don't know how much money they spent on the game, and would be surprised if they add the amounts up and check what the sum is. |
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Post by T34 on Sept 25, 2017 18:20:25 GMT -5
1) My take-away from the OP and the translated Russian article posted in another thread is that Pixonic listens to its players and at least tries to meet us halfway-ish...if for no other reason than it just makes good business sense. All games start to decline at some point, losing players. (Maybe not WoW, but you get my drift.) Maybe Pixo has decided that War Robots has started to decline, and wants to extract as much money as they can from the current players. Everything they did, ever since the new matchmaking and the WW bots, was only whale-friendly. (Hey, $100 bucks for a butch? No problem. New players get clubbed? No problem either, just spend $200 and fast-upgrade everything and you'll out of the clubbing region in no time.) My concern too.
I think feedback is critical and they got lots of it. how they react in the next month or two will be critical and will shed more light on what is happening.
Mentioned in another thread that clubbing can be absorbed without much damage as long as it doesn't reach a saturation point where "more than a reasonable number" of games are decided by which team has more and better equipped clubbers. Clubbers are tankers and whales who buy the gear. From this perspective there is no difference between them. Pix gets revenue from the whales and likely to get revenue from the new player after he got clubbed by a glahad and sees the shiny new glahad as a special (with enough gold bundled in to buy an orkan or something).
I feel its more about revenue now at the expense of the user base to such an extent that a change in approach is needed from Pix/Mail.ru
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Post by frunobulax on Sept 25, 2017 18:23:47 GMT -5
But there may be no change in approach needed from a business standpoint. For all we know the user base may be dwindling, but Pixo probably raked in loads of cash with the KBots.
I hope I'm wrong, but I've been right in all other games where I observed that - companies never turned the ship around after starting to become greedy. They might take off an edge or two, but then throw the next op/expensive item at you.
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Post by sanr on Sept 25, 2017 18:39:41 GMT -5
Here's the thing, though, and the part that people aren't going to like: The prices never would have gotten so high in the first place if every player was willing to pay a reasonable price for the game. Mobile game developers started this crap in the first place because people somehow got the idea that it was their right to play games free, even though it cost someone else a lot of creativity, money, and hard work to build them. The prices are so high because a small percentage of players are footing the bill for everyone else to play free. BS like the Black Market wouldn't exist if everyone was willing to pitch in. I know saying that pisses people off, but it's true. So we can't lay all the blame for prices on Pix or other mobile devs...a lot of it's on us, too. This is a rather recent development, that so many mobile games get super expensive. I would expect many players to realize at some point that they can easily get a PS4 and a fair number of games for whatever they pay for their mobile games. Games where they know exactly what they will cost. But now, I'd willing to bet that 80% of the players who bought more than just premium don't know how much money they spent on the game, and would be surprised if they add the amounts up and check what the sum is. This is what I've feeling lately. Even the game itself has several bugs, and the clubbing and BM stuff only makes me wary of opening my wallet. |
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Post by T34 on Sept 25, 2017 20:01:32 GMT -5
But there may be no change in approach needed from a business standpoint. For all we know the user base may be dwindling, but Pixo probably raked in loads of cash with the KBots. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been right in all other games where I observed that - companies never turned the ship around after starting to become greedy. They might take off an edge or two, but then throw the next op/expensive item at you. IMO, this game needs a large user base for it to remain viable and fun. Without a large user base it will be fundamentally flawed and unreasonably expensive. Current strategies seem to be heavily focusing on revenue generation with little consideration for other matters.
However, you could be right about Mail.ru not changing strategy.
One road I can see Mail.ru heading down is milking the current user base for all its worth (cash in). If the numbers remain than they have built a fantastic business. Activate plan B if it doesn’t work. Sell Pix to someone else to rebuild/continue.
Just to play with numbers to illustrate how the plan B concept works. lets say they make $30M a year and over 3 years they make $90M. Then sell Pix for $100M. that’s a return of $150M (10M for running costs) over 3 years for a company (mail.ru) whose annual net income is $190M. By any standards that’s a huge return on investment and a very successful business outcome which was based on an initial $30M outlay. even if the numbers are halved its a great outcome that anyone in the stock market would pounce on.
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dliver
Destrier
Posts: 12
Karma: 8
Pilot name: Dliver
Platform: Android
Clan: Deep South Bros
Server Region: North America
Favorite robot: Gekko / Tempest Leo
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Post by dliver on Sept 25, 2017 23:03:08 GMT -5
But there may be no change in approach needed from a business standpoint. For all we know the user base may be dwindling, but Pixo probably raked in loads of cash with the KBots. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been right in all other games where I observed that - companies never turned the ship around after starting to become greedy. They might take off an edge or two, but then throw the next op/expensive item at you. IMO, this game needs a large user base for it to remain viable and fun. Without a large user base it will be fundamentally flawed and unreasonably expensive. Current strategies seem to be heavily focusing on revenue generation with little consideration for other matters.
However, you could be right about Mail.ru not changing strategy.
One road I can see Mail.ru heading down is milking the current user base for all its worth (cash in). If the numbers remain than they have built a fantastic business. Activate plan B if it doesn’t work. Sell Pix to someone else to rebuild/continue.
Just to play with numbers to illustrate how the plan B concept works. lets say they make $30M a year and over 3 years they make $90M. Then sell Pix for $100M. that’s a return of $150M (10M for running costs) over 3 years for a company (mail.ru) whose annual net income is $190M. By any standards that’s a huge return on investment and a very successful business outcome which was based on an initial $30M outlay. even if the numbers are halved its a great outcome that anyone in the stock market would pounce on.
I have to agree with both of these posts. I've seen this same scenario played out on a number of other games that I've played. In fact one game I used to play (Tankionline) started out having well over 100,000 players online at peak times and has now dwindled down to having a hard time breaking 35,000 now. The game is now boring and the developers are trying gimmick after gimmick to get the remaining players to spend money. I truly hope this doesn't happen to this game, but the signs are there that the developers here are starting down that path. I hope they see their mistake before they go too far down that path. |
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Post by hyderier on Sept 26, 2017 1:41:12 GMT -5
There is a divide in thinking in this thread... those who believe we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, and those who don't. There's no "ultimately" in this issue. We are responsible for our actions, but we are also responsible for other people, to the degree that is reasonable. I think it's quite reasonable to expect a company like Pix to be responsible enough to not run a deceptive (showing completely false odds of winning) money grabbing scheme such as the BM chests. And I think modern society and market economy relies on buyers being able to reasonably trust sellers. Pix has broken this trust by implying they are selling good chances to win, when they are selling really low chances. People need to be able to have some basic level of trust, and society needs to enforce (via laws etc) business practices which can maintain this trust, because word getting around about scams etc isn't enough alone. In mobile app economy, laws don't quite work (yet, if ever), so other mechanisms need to pick up the slack. Therefore Pix deserves every Appke refund, and every rant about their bad business practices. |
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Post by Russel on Sept 26, 2017 6:44:02 GMT -5
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Post by SATmaster728 on Sept 26, 2017 6:46:54 GMT -5
thank god, you just nullified all arguments that pix was lying about the drop rates |
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Post by Russel on Sept 26, 2017 6:54:05 GMT -5
thank god, you just nullified all arguments that pix was lying about the drop rates Yeah, Hanlon's Razor at its finest ;) I guess Pixonic just was not aware of the whole "rates rant" going on. |
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Post by SATmaster728 on Sept 26, 2017 6:59:11 GMT -5
thank god, you just nullified all arguments that pix was lying about the drop rates Yeah, Hanlon's Razor at its finest I guess Pixonic just was not aware of the whole "rates rant" going on. well, now there is only the choice of the person. you have the numbers, good luck saying it isn't your choice |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 7:04:03 GMT -5
thank god, you just nullified all arguments that pix was lying about the drop rates You did notice that this only applies FROM 3.2 update? I also notice that components will be the highest % drop rate (equipment and bots) , not complete units. It will be interesting to see how many components make a whole unit (of whatever). |
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Post by SATmaster728 on Sept 26, 2017 7:52:56 GMT -5
thank god, you just nullified all arguments that pix was lying about the drop rates You did notice that this only applies FROM 3.2 update? I also notice that components will be the highest % drop rate (equipment and bots) , not complete units. It will be interesting to see how many components make a whole unit (of whatever). As your name says... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by ⓣⓡⓘⓒⓚⓨ48 on Sept 26, 2017 8:03:34 GMT -5
There is a divide in thinking in this thread... those who believe we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, and those who don't. There's no "ultimately" in this issue. We are responsible for our actions, but we are also responsible for other people, to the degree that is reasonable. I think it's quite reasonable to expect a company like Pix to be responsible enough to not run a deceptive (showing completely false odds of winning) money grabbing scheme such as the BM chests. And I think modern society and market economy relies on buyers being able to reasonably trust sellers. Pix has broken this trust by implying they are selling good chances to win, when they are selling really low chances. People need to be able to have some basic level of trust, and society needs to enforce (via laws etc) business practices which can maintain this trust, because word getting around about scams etc isn't enough alone. In mobile app economy, laws don't quite work (yet, if ever), so other mechanisms need to pick up the slack. Therefore Pix deserves every Appke refund, and every rant about their bad business practices. Agree to disagree. I don't think that they were in any way NEAR as bad as other games I have played that have chance components. And, again, for people who say it's "gambling" and should be regulated... it isn't. It may be in the strict sense of "I am gambling for that Dash bot...", true. But legally? I don't think it will be very easy to get the protections/penalties involved in laws for casinos and such ported into Mobile games. Again, Virtual goods are not the same as MONEY. The GOV treats things a bit differently when they don't get a tax cut off of it... Just sayin. I ain't saying how they (Pix) do things is all Kosher... but I don't think some player who KNOWS how bad the BM is, that spends 1k to 1.5k, willingly, gets the bots (and gold and whatever else) they want, then gets the refund, is right. They are NOT right, they are wrong. THEY are scammers. They never had to spend a dime and won't be banned from the game so they keep it all. They can say that they are sticking it to the man. Making Pix pay. But they are as bad or worse than Pix for doing that... unless they put down the game entirely, afterwards. If they keep playing... it's dishonest and akin to theft. I know it is not theft unless Apple has it stated in their TOS that once something like that happens they need to stop playing (which I doubt that they do), but it reeks as bad as anything they can accuse Pix of. It may be virtual goods... true, but by doing that they show themselves to be hypocrites. I am not sympathetic to anyone who games the system for whatever reason. Pix, players, whatever. But that's just me. *Shrugs* Anyway.... doesn't matter... moving on from that and other moral arguments and to the point of the thread... it seems Pix is listening from various pieces of news released. Which is why I say "wait and see" for the changes to come... I have heard that Ag payout may be increased, as well, to help with the new levels (no details nor confirmation... but it seemed both likely and credible.) Time will tell. Maybe the torches and pitchforks can go back into storage for a little bit? And yes, I know about the point distribution changes and until I hear their reasoning or excuse or whatever, I wait to scream. It very well could be to get the leagues proportioned differently in prep for the 3.2 changes. Or it could be a bug... Unless we get direct word, one way or the other, guessing is all we can do. Ah well, Stay devastating to reds my friends. IMO, YMMV |
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